Iraqi death toll-- pls sign a petition

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is this argot common to the effete self-professed 'intellectuals'? I don't understand what it is you are trying to say..
perhaps you should reassess your purpose here?.. you are rather ineffectual from my stand point..
Pls don't denigrate my threads with your rhetoric-- there is always tomorrow...that is if 3ithra'el doesn't pay you a visit tonight in your slumber...:D

peace!
Your hate is endless. Your threats are meaningless.:?
 
Just a few random thoughts.


Too many people have died.

It has to stop.

What is the best means to stop it with the fewest additional lives being lost.

Past history indicates that most casualties occur as withdrawal accelerates, but is there any other option?
The first person that died was too many.
The thing that perplexes me it with all the sectarian violence, what will happen when we pull out?
I truly fear a worse blood bath. **** if we do, **** if we don't.:thumbs_do
 
Your hate is endless. Your threats are meaningless.:?

pls get new material.. you bore me!
I don't have time to waste on hate -- I feel complete Unbiased impartial unconcern, about everything you have to say errr 'write'.. I admit, I am slightly annoyed seeing you pop everywhere.. perhaps if you renew your Avatar or screen name even with your old material, I wouldn't regret openning a thread so much?.. it might seem deceptively new but then I doubt that will do the trick! ^o)
Now just go away.. go annoy someone else and stop ruining my thread!

peace!
 
pls get new material.. you bore me!
I don't have time to waste on hate -- I feel complete Unbiased impartial unconcern, about everything you have to say errr 'write'.. I admit, I am slightly annoyed seeing you pop everywhere.. perhaps if you renew your Avatar or screen name even with your old material, I wouldn't regret openning a thread so much?.. it might seem deceptively new but then I doubt that will do the trick! ^o)
Now just go away.. go annoy someone else and stop ruining my thread!

peace!
You just can't address any thing but your empty hate. You really need help. :thumbs_up
 
You just can't address any thing but your empty hate. You really need help. :thumbs_up

Again, I am not sure what that means?.. try a vitamin B complex, it might help palliate your confabulations.. which is wise before passing advise on how others need help!
peace!
 
What is the best means to stop it with the fewest additional lives being lost.
Past history indicates that most casualties occur as withdrawal accelerates, but is there any other option?

In my opinion Iraq was ready to explode into violence before the coalition forces got there. Saddam would have of course killed all dissenters and their families, again, but at least this time he is gone and there is hope. First step would be to realize that violence would be present no matter what we did. Only question is how much.

I say we take the advice of the people maintaining security and Iraqi opinion which is a double edged sword but most do seem to rather the security troops provide.

And PurestAmbrosia, you did post a very politically charged topic. I'm sure that if I posted something contrary to what you believe then you would be jumping all over it. But please try to relax and not try to find conspiracy in everything, the internet is full of all kinds of foolishness and people stirring everyone up for personal gain. And it only gives wilberhum another opportunity to use the alien smiley.
 
Again, I am not sure what that means?.. try a vitamin B complex, it might help palliate your confabulations.. which is wise before passing advise on how others need help!
peace!
Some one that can score better on a test than anyone else ever did can surly figure out such a simple thing. May be that's it, to simple for your brilliance.
 
And PurestAmbrosia, you did post a very politically charged topic
.
Indeed, then let's not turn it into one!

I'm sure that if I posted something contrary to what you believe then you would be jumping all over it.
this doesn't satisfy the grammatical rules of a language

But please try to relax and not try to find conspiracy in everything,
I am quite relaxed thanks for your concern... by whose expert appraisal do you reckon I should accept something as true?
the internet is full of all kinds of foolishness and people stirring everyone up for personal gain. And it only gives wilberhum another opportunity to use the alien smiley.

Agree here too, I see it has done a great job indoctrinating the lot of you.. what is of concern is when you find everything dubious, even sources you'd readily quote me when it corroborates your line of thinking.. for instance the BBC's article on CIA alteration and revisions of wikipedia-- I'd at least appreciate some consistency-- it appears at times as if you are professing virtues that you do not have!
As for wilbur.. this is just his way to get a thread closed when the material isn't to his liking.. you'll either learn to ignore him or live with him...

peace!
 
In my opinion Iraq was ready to explode into violence before the coalition forces got there. Saddam would have of course killed all dissenters and their families, again, but at least this time he is gone and there is hope. First step would be to realize that violence would be present no matter what we did. Only question is how much.

I say we take the advice of the people maintaining security and Iraqi opinion which is a double edged sword but most do seem to rather the security troops provide.

And PurestAmbrosia, you did post a very politically charged topic. I'm sure that if I posted something contrary to what you believe then you would be jumping all over it. But please try to relax and not try to find conspiracy in everything, the internet is full of all kinds of foolishness and people stirring everyone up for personal gain. And it only gives wilberhum another opportunity to use the alien smiley.
I like my alien smiley. It says so much. :skeleton:
I do not disagree with anything you have said. But, there is still the question, Can we ever establish peace. I tend to think not.
We have done such a bad job and made such a mess, I wonder if it will ever be over.
 
By the way ask any true Muslim what govt they want, and they will tell you, they want back the mighty Muslim empire,

I can't help but point out that speaking of "any true Muslim" is what is now driving the sectarian violence. I have seen Muslims making all kinds of claims that they are the only true Muslims because they claim others do not follow the "tennants of Islam" and such. I know a Sunni that said that of Shia. There are other religions besides Islam there, which in theory still makes then a Muslim in heritage but not religion.

In a secular society only a government that represents all people will work. That could have been what you had on your mind but the way you said it sounds like you support one of the competing militia groups trying to take over the current government.
 
As for wilbur.. this is just his way to get a thread closed when the material isn't to his liking.. you'll either learn to ignore him or live with him...

peace!
Peace, I just love it, don't you mean hate.
Every time I address the issue, you come back with your intolerance.
If you stop, so will I, but then I know you won't. You will run your thread to closure.
 
I can't help but point out that speaking of "any true Muslim" is what is now driving the sectarian violence.

I don't see how? I stand by the article I have posted earlier, which wasn't to your liking-- wasn't main stream enough for you I am supposing?.. I don't think you have ran a scientific poll with P values, cohorts, and relative risks and proper assessment to make such a statement with this much conviction?.. compounded only by the fact, that you don't know much of Islam, you haven't lived in an Islamic region and I'll go out on a limb and say the closest you have come to an 'islamic society' if such exists, is well-- this very forum? feel free to tell me of your travels and attritions that have led you to such a levelheaded conclusion?

I have seen Muslims making all kinds of claims that they are the only true Muslims because they claim others do not follow the "tennants of Islam" and such.
ok

I know a Sunni that said that of Shia. There are other religions besides Islam there, which in theory still makes then a Muslim in heritage but not religion.

I am afraid you've lost me here!

In a secular society only a government that represents all people will work.
Indeed such a society did exist under the Islamic empires.. you can browse the forum or pick up any curricular history book to corroborate that!


That could have been what you had on your mind but the way you said it sounds like you support one of the competing militia groups trying to take over the current government.

I am not sure why you have concluded that?... but indeed I don't support any of the corrupt govt. of the middle east I think 'Al Qaeda' is something this nit of a president made up to cement his illegal occupations ( he isn't the first moron to have led to the demise of millions) like the handy osama tapes he readily dispenses when his ratings are low..
the craft of warefare, and revolting however is an expansive topic, I doubt can be dealt with her, with any sort of justice or dextrity...

peace!
 
I like my alien smiley. It says so much. :skeleton:
I do not disagree with anything you have said. But, there is still the question, Can we ever establish peace. I tend to think not.
We have done such a bad job and made such a mess, I wonder if it will ever be over.

I am sure that we can. Will not be easy though. And the groups profiting from raising paranoia is in my opinion the biggest threat.

One thing that surprised me, and might have also been one of the reasons why the White House miscalculated, is how after all of the claims that Muslims follow Sharia law that maintains order even without help from a government the country broke out in looting that trashed the country. Made New Orleans after the hurricane look like a city of angles. That level of chaos did not happen there, was very little in comparison.

I'm convinced that the country was about to erupt into civil war that might have been even worse. Pulling out now would be catastrophic.
 
Peace, I just love it, don't you mean hate.
whatever tickles your fancy :confused:
Every time I address the issue, you come back with your intolerance.

Did you dream this? I have never seen one let alone several distinct subdivisions of a text with separate thoughtful ideas to address any topic at hand by you, I think you just fainéant but enjoy the sight of your own SN on every thread?
If you stop, so will I

lol.. You are droll.. if I knew all it would take is get you to have the last word.. how easy you are to please....;D

peace!
 
I am sure that we can. Will not be easy though. And the groups profiting from raising paranoia is in my opinion the biggest threat.

One thing that surprised me, and might have also been one of the reasons why the White House miscalculated, is how after all of the claims that Muslims follow Sharia law that maintains order even without help from a government the country broke out in looting that trashed the country. Made New Orleans after the hurricane look like a city of angles. That level of chaos did not happen there, was very little in comparison.

I'm convinced that the country was about to erupt into civil war that might have been even worse. Pulling out now would be catastrophic.
Again, no disagreement. But, we are so hated, can there be peace it we stay?
Usually I have strong opinions on things like this, but this one just keeps me bouncing back and forth. :skeleton: (There it is again) :D
 
whatever tickles your fancy :confused:


Did you dream this? I have never seen one let alone several distinct subdivisions of a text with separate thoughtful ideas to address any topic at hand by you, I think you just fainéant but enjoy the sight of your own SN on every thread?


lol.. You are droll.. if I knew all it would take is get you to have the last word.. how easy you are to please....;D

peace!
I knew you couldn't stand it. You are as predictable as my pet dog.
But she isn't mean spirited. You could learn from her. :D

I'm off for the weekend with my wife. It is our 13 anniversary.
So be careful, don't drown in your venom.
 
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knew you couldn't stand it. You are as predictable as my pet dog.
I think you are just projecting your feelings here paisano.. this isn't a very mature defense mechanism-- try some reaction formation and less Cognitive dissonance...


But she isn't mean spirited. You could learn from her. :D

I hope she bites you.. and I am only left to wonder why she hasn't rebuffed her guiles on you?

p.s I haven't had dindin yet and it is midnight.. I know how much you were enjoying and looking fwd. to this--but you'll have to play solo for a while...

peace and gnight!
 
oh by the way, before I have my dindin-- I found this article interesting about who is looting Iraq.. that is unless Times in partner with CNN has also made it to your biased list? the exculpations are becoming patently obvious at this point?... guess we are not all the brain washable oafs you were hoping we were? pls feel free to tell me how this too is propaganda but what you peddle is the truth?

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030714-463062,00.html

Grounding Planes the Wrong Way
Sunday, Jul. 06, 2003 By SIMON ROBINSON/BAGHDAD Article
Much has been written about how Iraqis complicated the task of rebuilding their country by looting it after Saddam Hussein's regime fell. In the case of the international airport outside Baghdad, however, the theft and vandalism were conducted largely by victorious American troops, according to U.S. officials, Iraqi Airways staff members and other airport workers. The troops, they say, stole duty-free items, needlessly shot up the airport and trashed five serviceable Boeing airplanes. "I don't want to detract from all the great work that's going into getting the airport running again," says Lieut. John Welsh, the Army civil-affairs officer charged with bringing the airport back into operation. "But you've got to ask, If this could have been avoided, did we shoot ourselves in the foot here?"


What was then called Saddam International Airport fell to soldiers of the 3rd Infantry Division on April 3. For the next two weeks, airport workers say, soldiers sleeping in the airport's main terminal helped themselves to items in the duty-free shop, including alcohol, cassettes, perfume, cigarettes and expensive watches. Welsh, who arrived in Iraq in late April, was so alarmed by the thievery that he rounded up a group of Iraqi airport employees to help him clean out the shop and its storage area. He locked everything in two containers and turned them over to the shop's owner.

"The man had tears in his eyes when I showed him what we had saved," says Welsh. "He thought he'd lost everything."

Coalition soldiers also vandalized the airport, American sources say. A boardroom table that Welsh and Iraqi civil-aviation authority officials sat around in early May was, a week later, a pile of glass and splintered wood. Terminal windows were smashed, and almost every door in the building was broken, says Welsh. A TIME photographer who flew out of the airport on April 12 saw wrecked furniture and English-language graffiti throughout the airport office building as well as a sign warning that soldiers caught vandalizing or looting would be court-martialed. "There was no chance this was done by Iraqis" before the airport fell, says a senior Pentagon official. "The airport was secure when this was done." Iraqi airport staff concede that some of the damage was inflicted by Iraqi exiles attached to the Army, but these Iraqis too were under American control.

The airplanes suffered the greatest damage. Of the 10 Iraqi Airways jets on the tarmac when the airport fell, a U.S. inspection in early May found that five were serviceable: three 727s, a 747 and a 737. Over the next few weeks, U.S. soldiers looking for comfortable seats and souvenirs ripped out many of the planes' fittings, slashed seats, damaged cockpit equipment and popped out every windshield. "It's unlikely any of the planes will fly again," says Welsh, a reservist who works for the aviation firm Pratt & Whitney as a quality-control liaison officer to Boeing.

U.S. estimates of the cost of the damage and theft begin at a few million dollars and go as high as $100 million. Airport workers say even now air conditioners and other equipment are regularly stolen. "Soldiers do this stuff all the time, everywhere. It's warfare," says a U.S. military official. "But the conflict was over when this was done. These are just bored soldiers." Says Welsh: "If we're here to rebuild the country, then anything we break we have to fix. We need to train these guys to go from shoot-it-up to securing infrastructure. Otherwise we're just making more work for ourselves. And we have to pay for it."
 
I don't see how? I stand by the article I have posted earlier, which wasn't to your liking-- wasn't main stream enough for you I am supposing?..
As I pointed out, it was obviously biased and "opinion".

I don't think you have ran a scientific poll with P values, cohorts, and relative risks and proper assessment to make such a statement with this much conviction?..
I don't have to. Iraqis are polled by people who know how to do it. And from watching the results it's obvious that the poll takers are being truthful.

compounded only by the fact, that you don't know much of Islam, you haven't lived in an Islamic region and I'll go out on a limb and say the closest you have come to an 'islamic society' if such exists, is well-- this very forum?
Shortly after 9/11 I debated with a very vocal Sunni from Cleveland who lived in Iraq but moved to the states years earlier. They are the one that talked about Shia not following the tennants of Islam. I also studied Islam on the internet. Read some of the Koran. Never lived in Islamic society but I understand it better than the average US citizen.

feel free to tell me of your travels and attritions that have led you to such a levelheaded conclusion?
As it turned out, the Sunni population did what I recommended, things went like I predicted. What the Sunni I debated said would happen, did not happen. Why would I have better insticts about conflicts than someone you assume would know more about their society? Could it be that this has happened before in history making almost everything predictable?


Indeed such a society did exist under the Islamic empires.. you can browse the forum or pick up any curricular history book to corroborate that!
True. But none alive in Iraq today ever had one.


I am not sure why you have concluded that?...

A "true Muslim" is whatever you want it to be. To the Sunni from Cleveland, that was a Sunni Muslim, and none else.


I think 'Al Qaeda' is something this nit of a president made up to cement his illegal occupations ( he isn't the first moron to have led to the demise of millions) like the handy osama tapes he readily dispenses when his ratings are low..

Al Qaeda was made up? Dang, that alien smiley looks good right now but out of respect I will just use the roll eyes. :rollseyes

Believe me, Al Qaeda is very real. So were the bombings they took credit for over the last couple of decades. And their declaration of war against the USA.
 
And if you must try to make it look like it's the fault of the US that Iraqis did not follow sharia law and trashed their own country, at least be respectful enough to highlight the entire sentence so it's obvious that the only thing in question is the airport. And other armies would have shot all the workers, and worse. Will not make excuses for stealing candy bars and grounding planes for good, but I like to be fair, not jump to conclusions

In the case of the international airport outside Baghdad, however, the theft and vandalism were conducted largely by victorious American troops, according to U.S. officials, Iraqi Airways staff members and other airport workers.
 

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