Iraqi Shame

[barney]

:?

I don't see your point

I diddnt think you would.:rollseyes

OK.

You never complained about what the Catholic IRA did because it never affected YOU, as a catholic or a person. You shrugged all responsibility for standing against horror, even simply to condem what they did witha few words. It was someone elses problem. You, were safe, happy free from fear and whilst, not oblivious to what was happening, chose to do nothing.

 

[wth1257]

I diddnt think you would.:rollseyes

OK.

You never complained about what the Catholic IRA did because it never affected YOU, as a catholic or a person. You shrugged all responsibility for standing against horror, even simply to condem what they did witha few words. It was someone elses problem. You, were safe, happy free from fear and whilst, not oblivious to what was happening, chose to do nothing.

I was in like 6th grade when Clinton left office, and second grade when my teacher was almost killed by an IRA bombing, while I certianly did condemn the IRA, I doubt CNN would have had an 11 year old me on to condemn their atrocities on behalf of all peoples of Irish Catholic ancestry.

I suppose I should have said that people did not assume that I supported the IRA's atrocities simply because of my family ancestry, however it seems that many people, here at least, do assume that all Muslims are acting as some single mass that all support violent groups.

Were you ever deployed to Northern Ireland?

EDIT:The larger point being that while the prejudice aghinst Muslims may not be fair, it is something they need to do a better job opposing, for their sake.

 

[barney]

I havnt watched Al Jazerah for a while. When I did it seemed reasonably balanced and reporting similar things to the BBC.

Has it changed message lately to support a veiw that Coalition occupation-aggressor forces are killing a thousand babies a day and the Iraqi "resistance" is simply fighting these evil kuffar?

Many posters will be aware of the left-wing, anti-bush, anti-war site Iraqbodycount.
It's front page has 100point Bold Font saying " a list of the deaths caused by the american war in Iraq"
It then goes on to detail thousands of deaths of muslims by muslims in Iraq and the majority of them innocents. Evry so often there will be a entry of an american-caused fatality of a civilian. It then focuses on this incident and indites the Americans as having culpability for the death squads and Al Quada in the land of the two rivers work.

Check it out truemuslim.Who is doing the killing there. It started as a way of bashing america and has ended up simply shooting its own foot.

 

[truemuslim]

I havnt watched Al Jazerah for a while. When I did it seemed reasonably balanced and reporting similar things to the BBC.

Has it changed message lately to support a veiw that Coalition occupation-aggressor forces are killing a thousand babies a day and the Iraqi "resistance" is simply fighting these evil kuffar?

Many posters will be aware of the left-wing, anti-bush, anti-war site Iraqbodycount.
It's front page has 100point Bold Font saying " a list of the deaths caused by the american war in Iraq"
It then goes on to detail thousands of deaths of muslims by muslims in Iraq and the majority of them innocents. Evry so often there will be a entry of an american-caused fatality of a civilian. It then focuses on this incident and indites the Americans as having culpability for the death squads and Al Quada in the land of the two rivers work.

Check it out truemuslim.Who is doing the killing there. It started as a way of bashing america and has ended up simply shooting its own foot.

well cmon we ALL know that the fight between themselves is because they didn't know bush was contagious!!

...

ok ok fine am juss messin .
wait no im not ,
bush spreads stupidness which became spread around "normal" iraqi's so they became stupid by the stupidness that bush started....makes sense to me..
ur a dino anyway, u only kno letters and colors! To tick off!!

oh btw u do kno that the lil fight they havin in iraq is between shi'a and sunnah which is absolutly retarded! They think thats islam...they just abuse islam tho.
im guessin its the shi'a that started it anyway........shi'as on LI plz dont jump at me.

(yes i do mess around then make my post serious at the end )

 

[Izyan]

well cmon we ALL know that the fight between themselves is because they didn't know bush was contagious!!

...

ok ok fine am juss messin .
wait no im not ,
bush spreads stupidness which became spread around "normal" iraqi's so they became stupid by the stupidness that bush started....makes sense to me..
ur a dino anyway, u only kno letters and colors! To tick off!!

oh btw u do kno that the lil fight they havin in iraq is between shi'a and sunnah which is absolutly retarded! They think thats islam...they just abuse islam tho.
im guessin its the shi'a that started it anyway........shi'as on LI plz dont jump at me.

(yes i do mess around then make my post serious at the end )

Actually the killing was going on long before Bush. I remember visiting family in Anah as a child. The way they would treat and talk to Shiites was disgraceful. Iraq was never peaceful it just wasn't in the public eye. There's a reason why so many people (including) my parents left Iraq.

 

[barney]

I struggle to think of a nation that hasnt gone through this at some point in order to find peace.
UK France USA Russia Germany, very few nations seem to be able to just veiw their fellow humans with any sense of humaity. It seems to take some sort of vast and traumatic blood letting in order to accept a very simple fact. Civil war and division.

And as the US and the coalition have found, you cant teach humanity.

The strange thing is that Iraq is one of the oldest populated area of land in the world. From the Hyksos to the Skythians, from the Ottomans to Saddam, how many times must they be shown?

 

[Izyan]

I struggle to think of a nation that hasnt gone through this at some point in order to find peace.
UK France USA Russia Germany, very few nations seem to be able to just veiw their fellow humans with any sense of humaity. It seems to take some sort of vast and traumatic blood letting in order to accept a very simple fact. And as the US and the coalition have found, you cant teach humanity.

The strange thing is that Iraq is one of the oldest populated area of land in the world. From the Hyksos to the Skythians, from the Ottomans to Saddam, how many times must they be shown?

Well depends on the criteria. Are you talking about an insurgency during an occupation? If so you can look at Japan. Their transition was peaceful after WWII.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

This is ever disturbing and disgusting to say the least. Fellow Muslims killing other Muslims so discriminatorily. It can’t get any uglier than that.

Don't make too much out of this... it's the primal nature of man. I'm actually more ticked off that the title "Iraqi" was used to profile the story because this is exactly what happened after Katrina and Rita wiped out New Orleans. When you take away human dignity and leave them with no food, no water, no electricity and what have you, society degrades and the primal instinct to survive kicks into gear. It's a "human" condition, not an Iraqi one.

The Ninth Scribe

 

[Izyan]

Don't make too much out of this... it's the primal nature of man. I'm actually more ticked off that the title "Iraqi" was used to profile the story because this is exactly what happened after Katrina and Rita wiped out New Orleans. When you take away human dignity and leave them with no food, no water, no electricity and what have you, society degrades and the primal instinct to survive kicks into gear. It's a "human" condition, not an Iraqi one.

The Ninth Scribe

Ummm no it wasn't. There was not rapant murder and rape. They even admitted all those early reports were way off. The news agencies took a big black eye because of it.

 

[MartyrX]

Down right horrible.

 

[Air Jordan]

Don't make too much out of this... it's the primal nature of man. I'm actually more ticked off that the title "Iraqi" was used to profile the story because this is exactly what happened after Katrina and Rita wiped out New Orleans. When you take away human dignity and leave them with no food, no water, no electricity and what have you, society degrades and the primal instinct to survive kicks into gear. It's a "human" condition, not an Iraqi one.

The Ninth Scribe

What are you talking about? They are fighting with RPG's and automatic weapons. Do you think they made them themselves out of mud and dung? Who said Basra has no food, water and elelctricity? These are rival militias vying for political power, it's not Lord of the Flies on the Euprates Delta.

This isn't even Sunni v Shia. These are Shia fighting among themselves for future political influence, oil money or austere religious edicts. A better analogy would be Chicago 1920's gangland warfare without the vernier of civility.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

What are you talking about? They are fighting with RPG's and automatic weapons. Do you think they made them themselves out of mud and dung? Who said Basra has no food, water and elelctricity? These are rival militias vying for political power, it's not Lord of the Flies on the Euprates Delta.

This isn't even Sunni v Shia. These are Shia fighting among themselves for future political influence, oil money or austere religious edicts. A better analogy would be Chicago 1920's gangland warfare without the vernier of civility.

That country is NOT stable and neither is it's future. Everyone has different ideas about what will bring them stability, hence all the in-fighting. And no one in Iraq is living a life of luxury - not even in the Green Zone! It is not status quo or normal - in TRUTH people are dying there, starving there and crying there on a daily basis. Today there is yet another blow-out between U.S. military and Iraqis over yet another air-strike gone bad! The only people who trivialize their situation are the ones who live far away from it... like you!

Also, the Shia vs Sunni and Shia vs Shia should be more clarified. It is Maliki against any group that doesn't like Maliki... and he has the United States to enforce that while the United States enforces him. No one has the right to disagree with him or they're thrown out of the cabinet and will be named an enemy of the state. The only reason al Sadr is behaving himself is because he saw what would happen to his people in Sadr city if he didn't. And seeing is believing!

The Ninth Scribe

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

Ummm no it wasn't. There was not rapant murder and rape. They even admitted all those early reports were way off. The news agencies took a big black eye because of it.

Um... yes there was! Even my worst enemies (who LIVED there at the time) had reported directly to me exactly what was happening. There were no police to call for help and there was no court to process complaints - it's was a social nightmare! Also, the billions in aid never even reached the people because the government fudged the accounting so they could pocket the difference. Unless you're saying those trailers that were "donated" really did cost them $250,000.00 each? In which case I have a bridge for sale! Those people have relocated but they got NOTHING from the government! Most of the fall-out now is from contractor fraud (my is that the pot calling the kettle black). The government wants it's money back so, in the end, they didn't pay for diddly while they take no responsibility for their own engineering failures! The levee that failed just failed again AFTER the repairs the government (not private contractors) supposedly made. There's 22 million dollars of our tax money well spent!

Source: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-05-21-levee-neworeleans-leak_N.htm

Once again, people just don't pay attention while others trivialize their plight.

The Ninth Scribe

 

[Izyan]

Um... yes there was! Even my worst enemies (who LIVED there at the time) had reported directly to me exactly what was happening. There were no police to call for help and there was no court to process complaints - it's was a social nightmare! Also, the billions in aid never even reached the people because the government fudged the accounting so they could pocket the difference. Unless you're saying those trailers that were "donated" really did cost them $250,000.00 each? In which case I have a bridge for sale! Those people have relocated but they got NOTHING from the government! Most of the fall-out now is from contractor fraud (my is that the pot calling the kettle black). The government wants it's money back so, in the end, they didn't pay for diddly while they take no responsibility for their own engineering failures! The levee that failed just failed again AFTER the repairs the government (not private contractors) supposedly made. There's 22 million dollars of our tax money well spent!

Source: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-05-21-levee-neworeleans-leak_N.htm

Once again, people just don't pay attention while others trivialize their plight.

The Ninth Scribe

How about a source from the people actually there?

Many journalists also contributed to the spread of false rumors of lawlessness among the victims, which many have interpreted as an instance of yellow journalism. Many news organizations carried the unsubstantiated accounts that murder and rape were widespread, and in some cases later repeated the claims as fact, without attribution. However, only one actual report of a raping occurred during the uproar. A few of the reports of rape and violence were based on statements made by New Orleans city officials, including the Chief of Police. Many officials later claimed these rumors often impeded the relief and rescue efforts.

http://www.cjpf.org/blogweblinks/nola.htm

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

Izyan, you of all people should know there are two sides to every story. I think where you and I differ is that I don't choose sides so quickly. I like to have both sides - and that's how I find that thing called truth somewhere in between. The statement you posted is politically predictable - no specific names or events are given, no one takes a direct hit, so the author doesn't even have to worry about getting sued by anyone. At any rate, the poor are the poor. No one listens to them so they don't bother speaking and it's that mentality that concerns me because it was that mentality that enabled priests to abuse thousands of kids because... who will ever believe them over the word of a priest? Likewise, my own enemies were right when they said no one cared about what happens to them or any of the others there. They were all left to fend for themselves and the ones who did accept "help" are paying for it now.

But times are changing fast though, my friend. Anyone can make statements when they don't have to take any responsibility for them and the one you posted is just like that. It proves nothing, it changed nothing and, in my book, it's innuendo until it does.

The Ninth Scribe