is Allah fair ? Yes!

[Sorrow Embrace]

:wa:

it's ok to wonder, but i would advise against questioning Allah accusingly. we know there are things we don't know.

we read in Surat al Kahf:



even Musa was confused!? consider that!

and Allah knows best!

thanks .. that's my point exactly .. even musa questioned what seemed wrong to him
why shouldn't we ? in order to truely understand
am unlike some people here who refuse to question anything about allah
i presuit knowledge which lies in understand the reason behind allah's action
not to insult him but to understand and satisfy my need to know
evently to complete my believe and subit " logicaly " before spiritualy

 

[Sorrow Embrace]

Asalaamu Alaikum...

Your understanding is very messed up, are you going through a hard time in life right now or something?



"Deserve it"? And who said being rich is what everyone wants? Why didn't Muhammad(pbuh) despite having vast opportunities of "being rich" instead chose to live a poor man's life? Why is that the case for many other people in history and even today?

Your undestanding of things is messed up, you don't want to accept any answer given and I feel people are just wasting their time =/

then i would kindly advice you not to waste your time with me
mohammad was given the choice .. i wasn't .. you weren't
without questions we would have never learned anything

 

[M.I.A.]

what if you were told there's new prophet and new religion
and you didn't agree to this
would it justify me mocking you and say how old are you ? 10 ? why don't you believe this ?
but you were right to refuse that religion as false due to the lack of evidences on that
just because you don't have the answer to this question doesn't mean the question is silly or am thinking like
10 years old kid

everybody follows somebody, look at how many people watch football.. 60 thousand and there are many teams in the league.
i could make other examples that are a lot more complicated as many would consider them to be the correct way.
this probably angers many but they do not need to claim to be prophets to mislead you..

and that is the crux of the problem, the winner is correct and the losers have no justification to claim correctness ever again...if god is fair.. but thats not how it is.. probably.

the world is a joke though, seriously
keeping religion simple is the best way, let god sort em out.

 

[Sorrow Embrace]

Are you questioning Allah? Do you not believe in something called "fate"? There's wisdom behind everything Allah does, we have absolutely no right whatsoever to question what Allah wishes.

Edit: Asking too many questions could lead to destruction.. :><: So.. Just be careful yea?

:wa:

that's what i was trying to say but people fail to reliaze
we might not know the reason behind allah's action
which results that we eiather takes his actions right .. for granted .. follow blindly without questioning
or we consider those actions wrong .. and what ? suffer in hell for simply judging correctly
with the " limited " knowledge we were given
what choices there is ? both choices seem to be messed up
allah courage us to think and analyze .. but when we reach something we see in allah's actions as wrong
and we unable to justifiy it or explain it ... should eiather blindly submit .. or consider it wrong ?

am asking you this .. which choice you'd take ?

 

[M.I.A.]

the choice is faith,

ask a blind muslim
ask a deaf muslim

they both walk in the world, not having a faculty that we think is needed for discerning truth from lies.
whatever they do.. in an imperfect manner, allah swt is well aware of them.

belief in allah stw is the only thing i have trust in, what happens after that is just how it is.

..not easy to live with

 

[Uthman]

I haven't read the discussion fully but I have an idea of what you're talking about and I think the following quotations from some of the great Islamic figures in the past who possessed deep understanding might help to put things into perspective with regards to the way issues like these are viewed in Islam:

Imam Ibn'l Qayyim (rahimahullah) writes:

The divine decree related to the believer is always a bounty, even if it is in the form of withholding (something that is desired), and it is a blessing, even if it appears to be a trial, and an affliction that has befallen him is in reality a cure, even though it appears to be a disease!

Unfortunately, due to the ignorance of the worshipper, and his transgressions, he does not consider anything to be a gift or a blessing or a cure unless he can enjoy it immediately, and it is in accordance with his nature. If he were only given a little bit of understanding, then he would have counted being withheld from as a blessing, and the sickness as a mercy, and he would relish the trouble that befalls him more than he relishes his ease, and he would enjoy poverty more than he enjoys richness, and he would be more thankful when he is blessed with little than when he is blessed with a lot.
​

Sufyan ath-Thawri (rahimahullah) also said:

Verily, when Allah withholds, He actually gives, because He did not withhold on account of miserliness or stinginess, but rather He looked at the benefit of the servant.

So the fact that He withheld is actually His choice for the servant and His excellent decision.​

In short, it is in our nature as human beings to view negatively the fact that our immediate desires are not being satisfied. However, this does not take into account the fact that this is actually beneficial for us in the long run (according to Islam), but we are too short-sighted to see it. There are many ahadeeth which talk about the benefits of us suffering in this life, particularly the fact that it serves as an expiation for our sins which we then won't be punished for in the afterlife. I don't know if this helps.

 

[M.I.A.]

sometimes i feel like a beast in a cage, everytime i reach through the bars for something.. they move the bloody cage lol!

my insolence preceeds me. i know iv been ungratefull.

 

[Woodrow]

you make it sound like bad things can only happen to rich people
the things you mentioned those bad things would happen to poor people as well
suffering befalls on rich and poor alike ...

When it comes to thinking of wealth in terms of being rich or poor I meet the criteria of poverty level. But I do live in immense wealth in terms of being able to see and enjoy the vast bounty of Creation Allaah(swt) has placed upon this earth. I can see the vast open space of the plains, the beautiful sunrises and sunsets and the abundance of wildlife that inhabits the plains.

only rich have the means to deal with it easily
and the poor suffers and start questioning the nature order of things and the fairness of it
it's not fair trade

This region I live in, while in the USA is one of the most poverty stricken regions in the world. Live in the lands inhabited by the Lakotah, Nakotah,Madakotah and the Dakotah people is not what one thinks of when they think of life in America. Yet, among this hardship and poverty I am surrounded by some of the happiest people I have ever met. They may be angry people at the injustices of life, but they understand that they have many joys not available to those who live among wealth and comfort.

To understand this region do a google search for "Pine Ridge Oglala Sioux reservation" "Crow Creek Sioux Reservation" "Cheyenne River Lakotah Sioux Reservation" and "Standing Rock Lakotah Sioux Reservation". Yet in spite of great hardship, it seems the poorest of the poor have the greatest strength to endure it, along with the ability to see the beauty of life. Ease and comfort can hinder a person's ability to see joy. Just my personal experience, but in my life I have found the poor and suffering many times more able to see the fairness of Allaah(swt) then I have seen among the wealthy and those who live a life of ease.

 

[Uthman]

I've heard it said that the highest rates of suicide occur amongst the rich. Something to think about.

 

[Perseveranze]

then i would kindly advice you not to waste your time with me
mohammad was given the choice .. i wasn't .. you weren't
without questions we would have never learned anything

That makes my point then doesn't it, not everyone in the world wants riches. How do you know you would be happy by being rich? You think you know yourself well don't you?

Ever thought that this may be the best test Allah(swt) has given you? The fact that your at unrest right now, questioning things, being tested with patience and understanding. Maybe if you were rich, you might not have such a test because of it's ease.

Everyone gets tested and these tests aren't suppose to be easy, everything has a reason, a purpose. Our small brains could never comprehend the reasoning behind everything in this world.

 

[FS123]

Uncle Woodrow, you have made my day.... Thanks!

I'm gonna quote some of your replies on my blog if thats ok.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Like I said earlier, justice is more broad than being fair and this is why Allah calls Himself the Just, so you should not continuously complain that Allah is unfair due to a lack of understanding of His attributes. Men and woman are different and are not equal but this does not mean that Allah is being unfair? No, because both share the same obligations with the exception of some differences that are specific to a gender. And if men and women fulfil their duties and responsibilities towards Allah they will be rewarded equally, as Allah says, "Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female [3:195] In other words, Allah will not allow the reward of the doers of good to be lost whether one is a male or female. The same thing can be said for the ones who are rich and poor.

Allah further says, On no soul does Allah place a burden greater than it can bear... [2:286]. This means that the poor will not be burdened to the extent that they will have no option but to turn to haram. And if they do turn to haram then this will be a 'choice' that they will willingly make. The reasons for this choice could be many such as impatience, lack of faith or evil intentions.

You cannot question what Allah does because He knows what we do not, His decree is always for a greater good. He did not created the heavens and the earth out of foolishness, nor will He decree something out of foolishness. He cannot be questioned for His acts, but they will be questioned (for theirs). [21:23]

Do not look at the religion through the intellect or try to interpret it through a lack of understanding. I fail to see what 'fairness' with regards to marriage and wealth has anything to do with the belief in Islam and Allah. Unless you're nitpicking and making a meal out of the most futile of issues just because of personal disagreement.

thanks for your long answer
you mentioned rich people turning to haram women and stuff like this
what about poor people turning to that due to the lack financly to get married ?
allah after all " Created " us with lust right ?
and people who aren't able to marry should fight this lust " ALONG " with all the stuff they fight through
every day to make simple living ?
is that sound fair ? while others have the means to marry easily and turn blind eye to haram
it does not sound fair to me if it is to you

the rich who does wrong their mistakes are only blamed on them
they did not know how to spend their money in good way
it's not the right explaintion rather a pathway to another answer which is
why god gives those who don't deserve it

it just seem not right to me

 

[Hiroshi]

i admire your example it's very accurate and easily understood
but suppose as father of that family you actually have giving them hardship more than they can take
and they left you " rightfully " due to the over stress and hardship you gave them
doesn't that makes you wrong in some way ?
or you'll just blame them for not staying with you and sufffer " unneccarry " tragic times
that you could have stopped any moment you wanted yet you kept them to prove your point
and they simply stayed with you as their endurance could take and then when they could not endure any more
they left ... it just proves that father didn't know when to stop

God is not causing or inflicting hardship. Satan is the one causing all the problems. But God does not allow Satan to go beyond certain limits.

Also if we obey God, fully trust in him and pray for help, God will give us extraordinary power. It is possible to endure and find the way out of difficulty, not in our own strength, but in God's strength. This is God's promise to us. And we also have the assurance that the human suffering, injustice and wickedness will eventually disappear because there will come a time when the righteous will inherit the whole earth (Surah 21:105).

 

[MustafaMc]

i presuit knowledge which lies in understand the reason behind allah's action
not to insult him but to understand and satisfy my need to know
evently to complete my believe and subit " logicaly " before spiritualy

It seems to me that herein lies your problem. We are mere creatures at the mercy of the Creator and He knows any and everything about us even our deepest and inner most thoughts. We know so very little about Allah (subhana wa ta ala) and that being what He has revealed to us. Allah (swt) exists and yet He exists outside of our realm of existence which is that of space and time. I can't understand how Allah (swt) knows at the same time the intimate details of the creation of the universe and He knows those of its end.

Your question is valid in the same sense of the question, "Which came first - the chicken or the egg?" The answers presuppose certain things in order to be answered. An essential part of the Islamic faith is in Al-Qadar and is the most difficult one for me to comprehend. Each of us have what has been written for us and, as others have indicated, what matters is what we do with 'the hand that has been dealt to us'. Which brings to mind a country song by Kenny Rogers, 'The Gambler' where he sings: 'Cuz every hand's a winner, and every hand's a loser, and the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep.' The point is that no matter your station in life there are others who have it seemingly better (winners) and others who have it worse (losers), but in the end we all end up standing before Allah (swt) giving an account for how we played the hand we were dealt. Are you going to go through life being mad at the dealer and complaining that you were not dealt a royal flush or 4 aces in the game of life?

 

[Snowflake]

Sorrow Embrace;1404495]i do not like the way of this sound

And I don't like the way you speak about Allah. Allah is my Rabb. My Creator. No one speaks blasphemy about Allah that way in front of me. Do you think you can undermine Allah's attributes without any consequence? Your rebellion was obvious from your first post.

.. by that i mean the way you trying to make it sound like am ungrateful for anything yet taking things he gave me and using them and yet am ungrateful

I didn't have to.

you see god created me ... now if he don't approve to me breathing from " his " air he shouldn't have created me at the first place

This is a perfect example of the rebellion I mentioned.

i worked hard for the little i have NOT ALLAH GAVE IT TO ME

Na udhu billah. You just proved me right.

I simply earn what i have not given easily by allah like some people

Only Allah can help you.

i am ungrateful .. for my body is the only thing allah ever gave me ..

SubhanAllah no one can help you but Allah.

beside unanswered questions now you might say well he gave you healthy body and some people don't have that only proves my point that those people aren't treated fairly .. it's not only about me .. it's general question

Are you serious? My brothers and sisters went out of their way to provide you with answers and explanations, and you just proved it was all in vain. Na udhu billah, you still think Allah is unfair. Doesn't knowing that those who seem deprived will be compensated by Allah with more than what they suffered with, tell you Allah is Fair and Just? Contemplate man!!

and again am not a prophet .. am simple human with needs and hunger for answer that " allah " planted at the first place ... if allah don't want us to be curious and ask question why did he make us curious in nature ?
and demanding on answers

Just curious? I used to question things I didn't understand. But unlike you my questions weren't void of respect of Allah subhana wa ta'ala. You didn't even give Allah's name the respect to type it with a capital 'A'. Yet you made sure your own user name was spelt correctly. You speak of Allah as if He (na udhu billah) is a person, not The Lord of the Worlds. Your curiosity isn't based on ignorance. It's a symptom of the rebellion brewing within you.

there's no iman without understanding ..

This is a poor philosophy. Islam didn’t start with understanding of how and why. It started with blind faith. When alcohol was prohibited later on, the devoted did not ask why? They emptied their vessels onto the streets with full faith in Allah’s knowledge and wisdom. That is called understanding. Thus understanding comes from imaan, not vice versa.
There are people today who are illiterate as the day they were born. They have no knowledge, yet they possess understanding. This proves again that understanding is borne from imaan. It is the fertile soil from which understanding grows. Knowledge is a tool for harvesting that understanding.

and no understanding without answers
we may judge so shallow as humanbeings and with the knowledge lend to us by allah
but that means we shouldn't judge at all ?

Not sure what you're saying here.

would you let criminal go for murder if you commited for reason
you do not know ?of course not .. you need to know the reason first before considering
all and all ..

Not sure why you're comparing a criminal case to belief in Allah's Fairness and Wisdom.
Don't question Allah's attributes, might He put you in a situation where you beg for His mercy and forgiveness but your worldly agony only ends with death. Allah said acquire knowledge so that we can excel in our deen, not to prove/question His authority and will.

thanks for your reply

Don't feel special. I don't care about you or your problems. I replied out of anger because you insulted my Creator.

i thank people as attempt to be polite for the time they spared to answer and argue
insult to allah or not ... we can never learn if we always thought things your way ..
that's insult to allah. . that's not right to ask .. that's blasphmy ect ect ect
we end up taking things for granted without actual understanding
yes i ask questions am not ashamed of it and never will be

I honestly don't care if others were polite. We are supposed to feel anger at he who insults the Prophet (saw) and execute him. Yet you insult Allah, The Lord of the Worlds, and expect those who love Him to be nice to you? You have denied Allah's attributes. Accused Him of being unjust. You, after everyone's efforts to answer your so-called question, you still claimed to have earned everything yourself, stating Allah gave you nothing but a body. Na udhu billah. You have committed kuffar. It was obvious from the start you're up to your neck in rebellion. Those seeking knowledge ask about Allah with sincerity and manners, not accusations and blasphemy.

You're a fitnah. May Allah guide you or remove you from where His name is mentioned with honour and love. Ameen.

 

[siam]

Interesting question.....my opinion......

The Quran says everyone is equal, yet we see around us, some people are rich and some are poor---so how can they be equal?

Blessings come with an equal weight of responsibility.
Those who have been given more blessings (such as wealth) have more responsibilities. On the day of Judgement, they will be Judged accordingly. Those who have less blessings, have less responsibilities---for example, those who live in oppressive societies will be Judged according to the level of freedom they had to fulfill God's will......

Does that mean that those who give up all their wordly goods and go off to the mountains or forests to pray and meditate have a better chance to go to Paradise?----after all, if they are poor, they have "less responsibilty"?----the Quran says no. To escape wordly responsibilty by choice is not the same as dealing with it to the best of our (God-given)ability. We decide our destiny through our use of our free-will and we will be held accountable for any abuse.

The tests God gives us are for our own benefit as they are aids in our spiritual growth. There are things in life which we do not have a choice, but as Epictetus says "...we always have a choice about the contents and character of our inner lives."

 

[Sorrow Embrace]

And I don't like the way you speak about Allah. Allah is my Rabb. My Creator. No one speaks blasphemy about Allah that way in front of me. Do you think you can undermine Allah's attributes without any consequence? Your rebellion was obvious from your first post.



I didn't have to.



This is a perfect example of the rebellion I mentioned.



Na udhu billah. You just proved me right.



Only Allah can help you.



SubhanAllah no one can help you but Allah.



Are you serious? My brothers and sisters went out of their way to provide you with answers and explanations, and you just proved it was all in vain. Na udhu billah, you still think Allah is unfair. Doesn't knowing that those who seem deprived will be compensated by Allah with more than what they suffered with, tell you Allah is Fair and Just? Contemplate man!!



Just curious? I used to question things I didn't understand. But unlike you my questions weren't void of respect of Allah subhana wa ta'ala. You didn't even give Allah's name the respect to type it with a capital 'A'. Yet you made sure your own user name was spelt correctly. You speak of Allah as if He (na udhu billah) is a person, not The Lord of the Worlds. Your curiosity isn't based on ignorance. It's a symptom of the rebellion brewing within you.




This is a poor philosophy. Islam didn’t start with understanding of how and why. It started with blind faith. When alcohol was prohibited later on, the devoted did not ask why? They emptied their vessels onto the streets with full faith in Allah’s knowledge and wisdom. That is called understanding. Thus understanding comes from imaan, not vice versa.
There are people today who are illiterate as the day they were born. They have no knowledge, yet they possess understanding. This proves again that understanding is borne from imaan. It is the fertile soil from which understanding grows. Knowledge is a tool for harvesting that understanding.




Not sure what you're saying here.



Not sure why you're comparing a criminal case to belief in Allah's Fairness and Wisdom.
Don't question Allah's attributes, might He put you in a situation where you beg for His mercy and forgiveness but your worldly agony only ends with death. Allah said acquire knowledge so that we can excel in our deen, not to prove/question His authority and will.




Don't feel special. I don't care about you or your problems. I replied out of anger because you insulted my Creator.




I honestly don't care if others were polite. We are supposed to feel anger at he who insults the Prophet (saw) and execute him. Yet you insult Allah, The Lord of the Worlds, and expect those who love Him to be nice to you? You have denied Allah's attributes. Accused Him of being unjust. You, after everyone's efforts to answer your so-called question, you still claimed to have earned everything yourself, stating Allah gave you nothing but a body. Na udhu billah. You have committed kuffar. It was obvious from the start you're up to your neck in rebellion. Those seeking knowledge ask about Allah with sincerity and manners, not accusations and blasphemy.

You're a fitnah. May Allah guide you or remove you from where His name is mentioned with honour and love. Ameen.

bah ... you call me names ? and stuff coz i ask questions you did not dare ?
i didn't ask your sympathy on anything yet thanks for being " so nice "
however ... neither do i care about your blank and primeval opinion " with the atttitude " that suits it
people like you who drive people away from islam .. not like me

it's the religion of peaces ... courage to ask .. knowledge ... as muslim if i didn't loved to be part of this
religion .. i wouldn't give a **** about asking questions and seeking answers
i would simply curse god for no reason yet i search for asnswers .. some people are open minded
and asome are fantatic ... i believe if it was up to you .. you would order me killed for asking question eh ?
real typicall

as stupid as it sounds but you simply saying all those things about me .. for the simple fact you don't have the
answer neither did you understand your self ... you promot the idea of blind belief
and you said it ..

seem you are very very angry at me for asking questions ... why not angry at allah for allowing children to starve to death ? for allowing families and millions dies wrongfully
but nah ... you are too blinded with faith to ask such question .. actually faith is the not right word
people with faith are open minded .. like our prophet was

ABOVE ALL
look at your last line you should be ashamed of your self
You're a fitnah. May Allah guide you or "remove you from where His name is mentioned with honour and love. Ameen."

how many sinners and kuffar ever went to the prophet ? did he make statements such as you did ?
no he didn't fact is ... i " maybe " better than you
do you know me in real life to say such things ? i don't think so

here's little something for you

من كان يؤمن بالله و اليوم الاخر" فليقل خيرا او ليصمت " و من كان يؤمن بالله و اليوم الاخر فليكرم ضيفه و من كان يؤمن بالله و اليوم الاخر فليكرم جاره

you should start working on correcting your own flaws Sister
but thanks you showed me real respect ... may allah forgive you

----------------------------------

 

[Sorrow Embrace]

i must thanks all the members who welcomed this question and explained "some" of the points
and regardless of the sensitive type of question .. thank you all

although some of things don't seem clear yet but maybe allah will answer his own way in time
i apolozie for not posting in the topic again due to some harsh opinion and fanatics
who don't know blasphmy from questions

allah couraged us to ask and learn and be guided by mind before " spirit "
yet it seems some people here think they can judge people and act with major disrespect
on the other hand there's people who welcome questions with heart and try to answer them

however .. i thank the second type of people and the first type " allah forgives you inchallah "
for you may need more help and guidience from allah than I do
and as i said first .. there was no intetion to insult anyone's belief
just sensetive questions

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

I just came across something on the 3rd page of this thread by sorrow about knowing more than someone. It is utter arrogance to claim to know more than someone, especially if you have never met them, let alone the internet. Never should you claim to know more than someone as that is not the character of a humble person. Remember that

People complain about Allaah not being fair when they are sitting here in front of the PC, being given minute upon minute to live and breathe and be able to communicate. Had Allaah not created you, you wouldnt even be talking right now. Had you not been given a mind and some sort of intellect, you would not be here talking to us about this.

Rather than counting what you dont have or wish to have, u should spend your time counting the blessings of Allaah subhanahu wa Ta'ala because trust me, you could never do it for yourself and never will you be able to lift a finger on your own, without Allaah willing it. Allaah gives you sorrow so that when u experience happiness, you cherish it. When you are given happiness, you should think about those who have less than you. It's a whole cycle where which one cant exist without the other.

Some have this idea that its nothing but suffering for some and nothing but happiness for others, while it is not true. People look up to celebrities thinking they have a lot, yet they are the most disturbed and empty people on this planet. They have material happiness but not of the heart and soul.

It's easy to say you believe in Allaah but the real deal is acting upon it. Ilm wa amal, not just ilm.

 

[Woodrow]

i must thanks all the members who welcomed this question and explained "some" of the points
and regardless of the sensitive type of question .. thank you all

although some of things don't seem clear yet but maybe allah will answer his own way in time
i apolozie for not posting in the topic again due to some harsh opinion and fanatics
who don't know blasphmy from questions

allah couraged us to ask and learn and be guided by mind before " spirit "
yet it seems some people here think they can judge people and act with major disrespect
on the other hand there's people who welcome questions with heart and try to answer them

however .. i thank the second type of people and the first type " allah forgives you inchallah "
for you may need more help and guidience from allah than I do
and as i said first .. there was no intetion to insult anyone's belief
just sensetive questions

Ahki,

It is indeed a very sensitive question and one that does invoke emotional feelings. It is difficult to separate the emotional feeling from simple logic. Any questioning of Allaah(swt) carries with it the message that the person asking is either blasphemous or lacking in faith. Both of which may often be the case, but that should not imply that even the most sensitive question can not be asked out of sincerity and a desire to understand.

Any valid answer to your question will come from the repliers personal experiences, degree of faith, and level of understanding. This is not the type of question that can be answered with tangible and physical evidence.

Perhaps the best answers can only come from your own evaluation of how you yourself feel Allaah(swt) has treated you either fairly or unfairly. It is pointless to try to determine if another person if another person has been treated fairly or unfairly, as only that person knows his/her feeling of the happenings in that person's life.

Keep searching for your answer but keep in mind that fairness does not always mean being given the same things or in the same abundance. Each person is an individual with specific needs and to fulfill these needs different things are needed. What is a blessing to one person may be a curse to another and vive-versa.

Look first to find ways in which Allaah(swt) has treated you fairly and use that as a starting point to see the fairness of Allaah(swt)

Allaah(swt) has given us free will and he has given us the ability to choose either the path that leads to Jannah or the path to hellfire. That is Fair. He has also given us challenges and temptations to choose to follow or to fight against, he has given us the strength to overcome the temptations that lead us away from Jannah. Although we each travel through this De'en as individuals, we are all given the same degree of trials and strengths, but suited to be Fairest for each of us. This is the Fairness of Allaah(swt) that one day will be the only fairness we need to have concerned ourselves about.