is christianity blasphemy against God ?

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i am not discussing the sister in islam that is called sky. i cannot ignore as a limited member but i did report her post that is the best i can do. but either way, and even if she does not care for it, forgive in loving kindness is my path.

please, one of the points i am trying to make to you is that what happens to fellow Muslims is of significance to other Muslims. we live in a world where Muslims are killed just for being Muslim. to defend them with words is not dishonorable. to verbally attack those that kill Muslims is vastly superior than saying that my belly is full, i don't care. anger and a broken heart over the current state of the Muslim ummah is the very LEAST that someone can do.

i know a little about christian reformation and i would have been martyred along with my fellow reformists. i can link vids if you would like.

IF you had an education maybe. i'm am not picking on Christians by referencing the reformation. i am using it as sort of a parallel to the condition of Muslims. i'm saying that people follow their leaders in faith. by doing that, people commit atrocities. it is attributed to religion, but it is the fault of the leaders that taught false teachings and the people for accepting them. which reform group would you have chosen? Zwingli? Calvin? Luther? was religious doctrine or locality that made the difference. oh, and i have quite a collection of College lectures on the subject.

just as many muslims died in the fitnahs that followed your beloved prophets death.

the fitnah offers great understanding to the mindset of Muslims in a time of distress. had i known that you were aware, i might have used that example instead. Ali ibn Abee Taalib is considered a true Khaliph, yet many, many, good and true Muslims fought against him! astargfirullah! we are more like the followers of Mu'awwiyah than Ali. does that make sense?


i am no denomination nor am i any religon. i am a born again christian and nothing can change that. but do not mistake me. i have love for my friends in islam as i know they have love for me. i have a few that i have talked with for more then a year now and continue talking to and we have shared insights and knowledges and testimonies and it has given me a beautiful truth about islam. but sadly i know that in islam and in judaism there is a horrible truth of a concept of global domination. yes i understand this is a tricky question as many would be offended and i am grateful for every kind word and every knowldege shared. thank you. there is not concept of global domination in christianity excpet for when jesus comes down and he will be doing all the work for us. it is known to us that satan is far to strong in this earth for us to fight him alone. so we must fully rely on god.

THIS could be a whole thread. let me first defend my Jewish brethren. there is NO global dominance is Judaism. NONE. in Zionism, yes. but Zionism is the result of Christians believing that Judea is the withered fig tree of the Gospels, and that it must be restored in order for the second coming. this belief has been used by Zionists to make Westerners support Israel no matter what. but it is not restoring Israel, it is creating a new one. the new "Jews" are European and Slavs, NOT Semitic Jews.

i don't have the scholarship necessary to give you the Islamic perspective, thus i don't know, is the proper answer. i don't know if it is Islam that is supposed to be global, or Shariah. it's a big difference.

at this moment in time, it is the US that is the Imperialist Vulture on the planet. it IS doing it in the guise of Christianity, so i think we have disagreement there as well. a new thread might be needed to discuss that. Corporate Vultures prey on Christian sympathies to get support for their world domination. it isn't Christianity per se, but it is done in the name of Christianity. i will accept that it is a secular Christianity and not a Jesus based Christianity.





but anyways this is becoming preaching which is not the intention of my post. and i am not a preacher i am only a dedicated christian sharing my path with those dedicated in islam. i have seen a stark difference in the muslim reverts as opposed to the muslims whos father was muslim and whos father's father was muslim. in my studies i have seen that those in islam that arabic is not their native tounge tend to focus on the more peaceful aspect of islam then those who have muslim ancestory going back gnerations. this is just my experience. i will watch your vids now brother yusufnoor thank you. and thank you glo. peace.


peace,

your last point is crucial. very few are Shii'a by choice, or Hanafi by choice, or Shaafi'i by choice. or even Iranian or Iraqi by choice. EVERYWHERE, Muslims have allowed variation into their religion. i once had a Somalian tell me it was very important for me to learn Somali in order for me to understand Islam! he meant no harm, that was his belief. i have had more than a few Somalis ask to teach me Islam; after a few minutes discussion, they apologized and ask me to teach them. you see, i have an advantage, i am learning Islam ONLY. that is much easier than learning all the cultural baggage that now weighs down many Muslims. i had a Sudanese friend caution me when he saw me on my constant reading of translations and Tafsir. he said "be careful, you know more than most of them". i had a Somali wife; i would explain a few mistakes she was making based on certain scholars. she would say, "please brother, i'm born Muslim, i know more than you." later, she would see the particular lecture and collapse in disbelief. she would then apologize. i would tell her, "Sister, when i am giving you my opinion, i say that. when i am telling you a scholar says, i am telling you what he said"

you cannot see Muslims in the light of Islam. you must view in a cultural way AND, most importantly, as a REACTIONARY way. Muslims are dying for their faith. they are making dawah to those that are killing them. Iran is turning into a nuclear waste land. the CIA in Afghanistan isn't there to promote democracy, it is there to secure the poppy fields. imagine all of those things plus drones killing hundreds right here in the US. would you be angry? would you be offended? would you even still be alive? what about your family? how would you feel if they are raped and murdered simply because they are American? would you react? would you take up arms? if you took up arms, you would not be called a Patriot, you would be called a terrorist!

think about that...

peace
 

I don't know if the ignore function is available to new members (you become a full member at 50 posts), but to ignore other posters, try clicking on their linked name on the top left of the post, which should take you into their profile. Then click 'Add to Ignore list'.

Welcome to the forum, anyway.
You may find that your question is quite a tricky one to ask. As Skye said, this is a question for the Iranian government.

Are you wanting to know whether converting from Islam to Christianity is blasphemous? Then I might guess that a lot of Muslims would think so.
But if you are asking if converting to Christianity should be punishable by death, then certainly the vast majority of Muslims I know would say no.

It's a tricky question to ask though. In the end there are different interpretations and the answer might depend on which scholar you ask.

:sl:

let me start by saying, my fever broke. i still have fluid in my lungs, but i feel a whole better. just sick as hell, not sicker than hell! :D

A problem here, not THE problem, but it's pretty big. "Shii'a clerics", as i know it, they want 1) all non Muslims dead, then 2) all non Shii'a Muslims dead. this is NOT the Iraqi people! outside of Israel, Iraq has the most western population in the gulf area! they were ruled by CIA, MI-6 and Mossad for decades! in the NW, you CANNOT tell the difference between a Shii'a and an American! we look THE SAME! the Cauc in Caucasian is the Caucasus mountains. look just north of Iran, what do you see? Shii'a people here do NOT tell you who they hate; they only might tell you who they love. in order: Allah, Muhammad, pbuh, Ali, ra. that is pretty much all they know. you don't see them in Arabic dress, you don't see them at the Masjid. oh, and they also love peace. the ONLY identify mark, other than maybe a name, i have ever seen is the gold chain around the neck. if you are Muslim, you automatically discount that person as Muslim. HOWEVER, ask to see the chain! it says Allah in Arabic! you have to learn to remove the stupid look on your face as quick as you can, snap back to reality and re-greet them!

as for the clerics, well, non Muslims are clearly the "enemy". declaring yourself non Muslim is similar to being Anwar Al Awlaki in America. he didn't get a trial even though he was a citizen. they followed him with drones in Yemen until they killed him. NO TRIAL! the next week, drones were sent to kill his son. NO TRIAL! his son was not killed because of his beliefs, his dad was. the son was killed because someday he MIGHT, YES MIGHT, form views similar to his father! no crime done by him, no crime intended by him, just that he MIGHT someday hold anti-American views. the son was not killed by some radical Shii'a nutjob. he was death was personally ordered by the President of the United States, one Barak Obama. and to repeat, NO TRIAL!

in a similar vein, those clerics only see "the enemy". apostasy to them means, some foreigner, READ CIA, MOSSAD, MI-6, got you. you MUST be an enemy agent. it CAN'T be apostasy in Islam! WHY? Shii'ism IS APOSTASY in Islam!

that is why this is a difficult thing to explain.

peace
 
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i mean no offense only seaking knowledge. thank you. peace.

I didn't see anything wrong with your question. A few people on here are bitter (I'm sure they feel they have their reasons) and like to respond negatively to posts without ever offering any sound answers. So try to ignore them. I can't so I will soon be deleting my account. I'm sure that will make them happy.

Nevertheless, I agree with some of the posts (where people answered you rather than just being negative) here. Try not to use what Shia Muslims are doing as an example of Islam. Better yet, it's not always wise to use its execution as a good example, but rather look at the scripture (and hadith, if you want) for yourself, and see what it actually says. There should be no compulsion in Islam. Threatening to put someone to death for converting...i'd call that compulsion if I ever saw it, so its not a good example of what Islam truly calls for.
 
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I can't so I will soon be deleting my account. I'm sure that will make them happy.
You can't delete an account but you can ask for it to be disabled indefinitely and you'd accomplish that fast by writing a mod or admin!

best,
 
Quote Originally Posted by glo

I don't know if the ignore function is available to new members (you become a full member at 50 posts), but to ignore other posters, try clicking on their linked name on the top left of the post, which should take you into their profile. Then click 'Add to Ignore list'.

Welcome to the forum, anyway.
You may find that your question is quite a tricky one to ask. As Skye said, this is a question for the Iranian government.

Are you wanting to know whether converting from Islam to Christianity is blasphemous? Then I might guess that a lot of Muslims would think so.
But if you are asking if converting to Christianity should be punishable by death, then certainly the vast majority of Muslims I know would say no
.

:sl:

look at 2 surah's in English, Al Fatihah and Al Ikhlas:

In the name of Allah , the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.
[All] praise is [due] to Allah , Lord of the worlds -
The Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful,
Sovereign of the Day of Recompense.
It is You we worship and You we ask for help.
Guide us to the straight path -
The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray.

Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One,
Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent."

if you truly understand and believe that and you CHOSE Islam, you can't really "undo" it. it's near impossible. especially to Christianity? if you knew and understood Tawhid, you CAN'T have 3 gods, be it 3 that are 1, or 1 that is 3. you can never have believed it, or been really unsure; but you cannot believe in the Oneness and then not believe it. any inkling of doubt is prohibited by those verses. it doesn't make sense logically. what is logical is that an individual NEVER studied Tawhid, thus never had a firm grasp.

on the other hand, if religion to you is just an abstract thing that you need and you just want one, you can swap titles. it didn't matter in the first place. that's why it confuses a lot of Muslims who stuff about religions that isn't logical. just because your family goes back 5 centuries as "Muslim" doesn't mean that you understand Islam. if you KNOW that last 4 verse Surah, ANYTHING that runs counter to it rings false. ANYTHING!

thus you can't reject it. you CAN reject family, or tribe or maybe nation, political philosophy, even other Muslims, but NOT Tawhid.

thus, if someone leaves Islam, odds are they are leaving "something else" or accepting something else, ie, money, power, spouse, acclaim. someone who KNOWS Tawhid, values it more than those other things. it is Tawhid that is the foundation of Islam, the 1st and chief pillar.

trinity is HARD to explain, Tawhid is simple. it is the only logical explanation of monotheism, BAR NONE!!!

if you hear "apostasy", something fishy is going on OR it was fishy in the 1st place.

when someone "leaves" Islam, they can only do that if they never had it to start with. if they didn't, it is easy to suspect espionage; but more likely a girlfriend or some free handouts.

make sense?

ma salaama
 
Salam alaykum

What if we stop thinking what others do against God/Allah like "is christianity blasphemy against God" questions but start to think what we do for God/Allah and for our fellow humans? Do we help them to find the right path to the true religion (what is the true religion to us as muslims) or not? Would here some better way to show to them compassion and care of Islam?

:hmm:
 
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is christianity blasphemy against God ?

Answering just this question, as asked, this is what Allah says in the Qur'an:

They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son."
Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous.
At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin,
That they attribute to the Most Merciful a son.
For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.
There is no one in the heavens and earth but that he comes to the Most Merciful as a servant.
(19:88-93)

Further, that He may warn those (also) who say, "Allah hath begotten a son":
No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. It is a grievous thing that issues from their mouths as a saying; what they say is nothing but falsehood.
(18:4-5)

Peace.
 
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A trial court in Iran has issued its final verdict, ordering a Christian pastor to be put to death for leaving Islam and converting to Christianity, according to sources close to the pastor and his legal team.

He was released a while back.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and 89 members of Congress, along with the European Union, France, Great Britain, Mexico and Germany, have condemned Iran for arresting Nadarkhani and have called for his quick release.

I think most in this thread are annoyed with the hypocrisy of these stories rather than you asking questions (which is valid). Hillary makes out like the voice of reason when in actuality supports pretty much the same types of things. Guantanamo for example.

Read more foxnews.com/world/2012/02/22/iran-court-convicts-christian-pastor-convert-to-death/#ixzz2FYnwrgmy

Fox News isn't really a news source.

This is the best explanation to the apostasy question I've come across:

 
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:sl:

very cool for posting Dr Bilal, shame the US won't let him in this country. while bayah may be to someone else, Dr Philips is generally the one i look at to clarify issues of fiqh. cuz i have to understand things in English.

that said, i think we should look at the seeming hypocrisy of certain questions. the asker MAY not even be aware, but we should still try to put perspective in the answers. if the US can kill innocent people just because of their age or what they might think in the future WITHOUT A TRIAL and this not taken into consideration on questions of justice, it is borderline absurd feign injustice when someone actually gets his day in court. if you had to take out scales and weigh the justice system of Shii's Iran vrs alleged FREE WESTERN SECULAR DEMOCRATIC AMERICA, in cases of Muslim majority treating Christian minority against Christian majority treating Muslim minority. IT APPEARS that Shii'a Iraq wins in a total no contest knockout!

as horrifically unbelievable as that might seem to Westerners, SUCH AS ME, it appears to be true. thus, when questions imply the seeming injustice of a Muslim government, even a Shii'a one, honesty suggests that we question that supposition. it IS part of the answer.

some Americans are still brainwashed into thinking that the USA is all about freedom and justice. every Tuesday, the US President signs off on a list of innocent human beings to be targeted by murder drones. not a whimper of objection from US citizens, but when someone goes to court for violating key precepts of a Nation government, they act shocked and indignant. the fact the the original poster doesn't see this, doesn't negate that it is ABSOLUTELY TOTALLY ABSURD!

IT SHOULD BE MIND FREEKINGLY OBVIOUS TO ANYONE WITH A BRAIN AND CONSCIENCE! yet, somehow, in the US, it doesn't even dawn on them?

It's complete and utter rubbish!

if we don't try to wake them up, who will?????????

ma salaama

thanks Mod for edit!:D
 
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dear yusufnoor please calm your anger towards me. i am not who you are saying i am/assuming i am. i have taken much time to think this over and have re-read things 3 times in order to understand things fully. this is a quik reply i intend to reply in what i have found in the 2 pages so far. peace.
 
I am curious, as you often throw accusations toward members here and few have been spared; Which part of Br. Yusuf's post did you perceive as anger toward you?

best,
 
dang bro,
i ain't mad at you in the least!
i'm speaking to the situation as a whole.
i include MYSELF in this.
6 months ago i thought achmewhat'shisname was a nutjub.
now, it's looking totally the opposite.
i'm mad at AMERICA!
i mean, seriously, Iran is the voice of reason?
take a gander at my posts. do i appear to be the least bit pro-Shii'a?
granted, we may just be dealing with "appearances"
but for the US to even appear to be that much less just...
how did it come to this?
it comes that way because we accept what we are told.
there is "telling" in asking questions, bias, if you will.
it NEEDS to be addressed as well.
300,000,000 Americans have it wrong,
it's time to view things different.
don't take it personal
but if you agree, then what do you do about it?
gotta start somewhere.
you start, by NOT accepting the bias.
peace
 
so what i have found here, and i appreciaite all that have contributed to the information, is that execution is reserved mainly towards islam. so i wonder is there a separation between apostacy and blasphemy ? like is leaving islam after already converting or being born into a islamic family and then leaving apostacy and christianity is blasphemy ? and its pretty clear christianity is considered blasphemy in islams opinion from this topic.

yes and i know i typo its gonna happen. its gonna continue to happen. i apologize. thank you.

and also im understanding that there is a lot of frustration to christians because U.N. is parading a fake christainity with guns to oppress and martyr islam. so naturally islam would look at me as if i were an enemy not bothering to ask what i thought of islam. so i may be martyred as well if i went to a country that was islamic law dominated for my beliefs. maybe not by the officail law of that country but by the residents themselves. but i would like to point out one thing. the most reccent riots of islam were not against the chuh as far as i could tell. it was mainly against the U.S. political structure. the embassy. that is a major point. i think islam is becoming wiser in who their enemy is. christianity is not the enemy of islam. but that brings up one more point: it is arrogant to say none in the history of islam have left islam or will leave islam that are educated in islam. i cannot use myself as an example because i was never truly dedicated to islam. when i took shahada i could not take muhhamad as my prophet seriously and asked god why. i prayed for guidance and was guided back to christianity. but as far as the pastor in iran. it is completely possible for one to make a conversion if given proper knowledge of what christianity is and what it is centered on. so him leaving islam to pursue what he felt was a better faith in god is not out of the question as long as god led him to that faith. it is very important to ask god what you are supposed to do before doing it. maybe the apostacy law is flawed in itself. maybe the blashpemy law is flawed as well. i am no scholar either. i am not a follower in islam either. but i can tell you i would enjoy a law that opresses the pagan witches and athiests. so i can kind of see where it comes from. ya i wont make any secret about that. this new age stuff really gets on my nerves on so many different levels.

the next point is that it is up to the law of the country if execution is administered to christians for their beliefs.

finaly there is much talk of islamic martyrdom. please let me adress this once again. i would not have one single islamic practitioner be martyred unless in battle against dajjal. which i would prefer to be martyred in battle against dajjal myself. who could deny any man that ? but i am forming an opinion that if islam from the middle east were to spread here to the west it would be by force, and i would be martyred for my beliefs in my front yard even though i would not be the one to bear arms against them. and im pretty sure that everyone that does not belive in execution on that level that is in islam would be forced to support the executions unless they themselves be executed as non-belivers or deserters. just as a fake christian'd U.N. soldier would be forced to kill or be executed for deserting.

this is all messed up stuff but it is the world we live in and once again thank you for your contributions.
 
so what i have found here, and i appreciaite all that have contributed to the information, is that execution is reserved mainly towards islam. so i wonder is there a separation between apostacy and blasphemy ? like is leaving islam after already converting or being born into a islamic family and then leaving apostacy and christianity is blasphemy ? and its pretty clear christianity is considered blasphemy in islams opinion from this topic.

this is what my long, rambling posts are attempting to explain.
Islam is best understood in Arabic. Tawhid deals with the Oneness of Allah. that is why i tried to explain it.
the nearest term i can think of for blasphemy is shirk. shirk is ANYTHING that violates Tawhid.
examples:
saying Jesus is the son of God violates Tawhid-Allah begets not, nor is He begotten
saying Jesus IS God violates Tawhid-Say, He is Allah, al samid the One and Only God
same with trinity
saying Jesus created the world violates Tawhid-Alhamdulillahi Raabil Alamin: Raabil Alamin is creator and much more.

in English, shirk gets translated "associates partners with Allah" it IS a truthful translation, but real clumsy for us English first folks. that is why i gave examples of Tawhid first.
shirk the THE unforgivable sin, you exit monotheism when you do it.
apostasy involves shirk, and is centered on shirk,eg, you no longer believe in Tawhid.
apostasy is a decision to exit monotheism, and is in itself a type of shirk. Allah is Creator and Lawgiver, thus you are rejecting God as lawgiver. you are then going to follow someone else's law. that is shirk. A) you don't recognize Allah as Lawgiver B) you actually follow something else. putting that something else in the place of Allah is shirk.
is this understandable?

peace
 
I just read article what was written by emeritus bishop from my country about situation in the Middle East and religions in there. He wrote that religious leaders from Islam, Judaism and Christianity have kept years talking together, trying to find similarities from those three religions, not thinking what are different and of they mind nations in the Middle east should create similar union like what European Union is - for give everyone there security and protect and stop keeping alive idea that we are enemies together.

Those religious leaders found things which are similar for all those three religions like peace, justice, forgiveness and reconciliation.

Can´t we here try the same and build the bridges together?
 
:sl:

please don't assume we are NOT trying to build bridges.
sometimes you have remove some boulders in order to set your foundation.
in a garden, sometimes you have to weed.
with wheat, you have to take out the chafe.
when you make mayonnaise, you mix oil and eggs,
but you still have to beat them!
if you drop an egg shell in your cake mix,
you stop and take it out.

if someone asks you if your mother is still in prison.
you don't answer no; you tell them the question is incorrect.

there is an implication of injustice as part of the question. it is a bias.
if we remove all of the extraneous stuff from the question,
we can seek to answer it

there is a very short answer to the question, "is christianity blasphemy against God ? "
"technically" yes.

does that answer teach you anything?
do you now know why it is?

but to answer, "like is leaving islam after already converting or being born into a islamic family and then leaving apostacy and christianity is blasphemy ?"
the answer about being born into a family may even be impossible to answer. it is a hard question.

it might seem ridiculous, in the west, that someone went to court over this.
now, in the west, courts are ridiculous.

again, the US is killing Muslims just for being Muslims WITHOUT A TRIAL.
yet the bias is that Iran is doing something unjust.
NOT the original poster's bias, but WHY do you think FAUX News covers this instead of all the innocent people being killed by murder drones?
they are trying to sway public opinion.
i am a Muslim. i am fighting that "sway"
i am also an American in America. it is happening here.

might i seek your permission to continue trying to sway things in the way of truth?
just a little bit closer?
please?

ma salaama
 
Salam alaykum

Of course I know we all try to build bridges and find even some sense of behaviour of others and be tolerant. Yes USA kills muslims without a trial, Iraqis kill muslims without a trial, Iranians kill muslims without a trial, zionists kill muslims without a trial as well muslims kill others without a trial. Islam is perfect for us, but muslims may not be perfect all the times.

What are "faux news"? I don´t follow news channels from the Western world very much, just read some local newspapers and there amount of news from the Middle East are quite tiny part about what really happens.

I am not swaning the trtht, I try to understand how people could live in peace together, even they believes are different.

I liked your answer as "technically" yes. Just a word technically. Hopely we will at the some day will find a way to live together in the peace and respect others way to see that word.

And Allah knows the best.
 
wa alaykum as salaam wa rahmatullah,

Fox News is perhaps the number enemy of truth in America, BUT they do it in the guise of being anti "liberal communist/socialist/pinko" other news.
m
MANY Americans perceive it as the one news station to tell the truth. that is what they say they do. we call it "Faux" news instead, because it is just as fake as the rest.

the invisible "bias" in this story, which on Faux, isn't very invisible, is that the headline your mind is supposed to see is, "Look at these Muslim wackos in Iran. this man is on trial because he is Christian. go vote for Mutt Romney so we can bomb these [insert derogatory name] back into the stone age. you are not safe as long as these folks are alive?"

which implies, "we, as Americans, are all about freedom and justice. AND THEY ARE NOT!"

ergo, kill at will, let God sort them out.

and i must confess, i am a recovering Fox news junkie. i had it on 12 hours a day. i only switched to watch Iron Chefs, Emeril and JAG.
i "thought" it was news. it is NOTHING but propaganda.
the only "news" i watch now is Abby Martin on Russia TV. Russia and Iran are the only Counties that broadcast any real journalism on TV in America.

think about that...

ma salaama
 
yusufnoor i try not to respond to most things you say in this topic as to not get trapped in your millions of side points. i really just want relevant information. but two things
1. i understand your point about true jewish. i watched the vid jews,christians,islam unites. and i am greateful for peopel like that. there is a difference between zionism and jewish belief.
2. i understand and appreciate your millions of side points i just prefer and appreciate the information im asking for more then millioins of side points

i agree that bridge building is crucial in order to not blow our selves up over somthing that were all waiting on anyways. god knows best. and god knows our hearts. and god will be the ultimate judge. but unfortunatly the one with the gun is the one who speaks loudest. peace.
 
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