Is McDonalds meat or any other fast food meat haram to consume?

[Tyrion]

No need for a debate, but I would like to hear what some of the other opinions are and their evidence for it. In expressing opinions on open forums such as this I believe it is best to be conservative. Should we not be cautious of taking the liberal view about things that are not clear?

Sure, I suppose one could think that way, but my only problem was presenting things inaccurately to those who are asking questions. In my mind, presenting only those parts of an issue you happen to believe in is dishonest, and does a disservice to the person who is asking you for help or advice. In my experience, it also tends to lead to many problems and confusion in the future...

For example, Bro Hamza just gave you his view above about how he doesn't believe Kosher is halal. Most learned people I've come across however, and most laypeople DO consider kosher halal, and I think they have good reason to. He holds a rather conservative position (which is by no means the only one), and by presenting only that position as the only correct one he risks confusing the OP and others who don't know better, and could potentially make their situations far more difficult than they need to be. (which in turn could lead to a number of potentially dangerous or damaging issues...)

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

What about Quran 5:5?

The verse in surat al-Ma'ida:


"The food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them" (Qur'an 5:5).


This is a general ruling ostensibly pertaining to all their food. Yet this ruling is subject to takhsis, or "restriction" by more specific rulings that prove that certain foods of Ahl al-Kitab, "those who have been given the Book," such as pork, or animals not properly slaughtered, are not lawful for us.

Excerpt taken from: http://www.sunnipath.com/library/Articles/AR00000083.aspx

In other words all of the foods of the people of the book are permissable for us except those foods which we are restricted from consuming such as foods which are forbidden for us and those animals that have not been slaughtered in the correct manner in accordance to Islamic dhabiha.

In the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) time the Jews and Christians would slaughter their animals in much the same way as Muslims did. But today is a completely different story.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

For example, Bro Hamza just gave you his view above about how he doesn't believe Kosher is halal. Most learned people I've come across however, and most laypeople DO consider kosher halal, and I think they have good reason to. He holds a rather conservative position, and by presenting only that position as the only correct one he risks confusing the OP and others who don't know better, and could potentially make their situations far more difficult than it needs to be. (which in turn could lead to a number of issues...)

Actually if you read my post properly i did state that it depends on the method of slaughter employed by the Jew at the time of slaughter. If it comforms with the criterea of Islamic dhabiha then it would be permissable for us to consume. But in order to establish this fact one would need to look into the particular slaughter method employed by the Jew conducting the slaughter.

Again the reason being because the slaughter methods applied by the Jews today are very different to the methods applied by the Jews in the past. Many of them today do not even utter the name of God during slaughter which is one of the most important criterea in Islamic dhabiha.

So when it comes to consuming halal then we should be very careful and we should adopt a conservative view and in this case it is the majority view. What is halal and what is haraam is clear, that which is in between is doubtful and the Prophet (Salallalhu Alaihi Wasallam) told us to keep away from doubtful matters.

And Allah knows best in all matters

 

[MustafaMc]

My opinion is that the middle ground is best and that we should be cautious of making what is haram into halal and likewise be cautious of making what is halal into haram. When in question it is better for one to personally choose the more conservative choice.

 

[syilla]

The verse in surat al-Ma'ida:


"The food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them" (Qur'an 5:5).


This is a general ruling ostensibly pertaining to all their food. Yet this ruling is subject to takhsis, or "restriction" by more specific rulings that prove that certain foods of Ahl al-Kitab, "those who have been given the Book," such as pork, or animals not properly slaughtered, are not lawful for us.

Excerpt taken from: http://www.sunnipath.com/library/Art...R00000083.aspx

In other words all of their foods are permissable except that foods that are forbidden for us to consume or animals that have not been slaughtered in the correct manner. In the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) time the Jews and Christians would slaughter their animals in much the same way as Muslims did. But today is a completely different story.

wouldn't it be the same as marrying the people of the books but why i've seen lots of fatwas it is permissible whereas in malaysia is not allowed. lol i'm sorry if off topic but i had to and i don't think i deserve for a new thread. i would not able to answer all the questions.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

wouldn't it be the same as marrying the people of the books but why i've seen lots of fatwas it is permissible whereas in malaysia is not allowed. lol i'm sorry if off topic but i had to and i don't think i deserve for a new thread. i would not able to answer all the questions.

Yes you are correct which is why many scholars have stated that it is not permissable for a man to marry a woman who is just Jewish or Christian by name and not by faith and practise. Clearly the Jewish and Christian women of today are very different from the Jewish and Christian women of the time of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasalam).

In order to marry such women then they have to be practising and believing and not athiest as many are nowadays. How many Muslim men of today marry a woman who is just Christian or Jewish just by name? Many do not even believe in God let alone their own religion.

Also one has to ensure that ones children will grow up as Muslims. I know so many Muslims who married non practising Christian girls which ended up in divorce and the children are fed haraam and bought up as non believers. It is truly sad to see.

Sheikh Muhammad Ibn Adam states regarding such marriages:

Women who are Christians and Jews merely by name, and do not really believe in any religion, like a large number of people in the west, cannot be termed as people of the book (ahl al-Kitab). They are atheist in reality and it will not be permissible for Muslim men to marry them.

Therefore, one must first make sure that the woman is truly a believing Christian or Jew, and then consider contracting marriage with them.

Thirdly, it should be remembered that the meaning of the permission of marrying Christian and Jewish women is simply that, if a marriage contract was performed with them, it would be valid according to Islam and the children born out of this wedlock will be considered legitimate.

However, there are various narrations that establish its undesirability. A Muslim man is advised in the Hadith to select a life partner who fully observes the injunctions of Islam, so that she becomes a means of attaining piety. If that is the case, then marrying Christian and Jewish girls would be disliked.

This is the reason why Sayyiduna Umar ibn al-Khattab (Allah be pleased with him) prevented many such marriages in his lifetime because of what he had seen of the corruption that resulted in Iraq and Syria. (See: Muhammad ibn al-Hasan, Kitab al-Athar).

Finally, this permission is only when one is confident that he himself or his children will not be affected by this marriage. In the early days, Muslims were duly equipped with adequate Islamic knowledge and an unshaken commitment towards their religion. As such, there was no risk of the husband being affected by his wife's religion. Rather, the wife would see the glory of Islam, thus enter into the fold of Islam.

Therefore, if a Muslim male is confident that marriage with a Christian or Jewish girl will have no affect on his and his children's Islamic identity and commitment, then there is no bar against such marriages. However, if he is not so confident, he must avoid entering into such marriages.

Source: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=2267&CATE=10

 

[syilla]

^^^Jazakakallah khayr for the knowledge shared.

Just thought of sharing before anyone confused regarding stunning.

taken from http://www.halalfoodauthority.co.uk/FAQs.html

Q 3. Does Halal Food Authority allow stunning of birds and animals?

A. Yes, however, one has to be reminded that HFA has always maintained "no stunning to kill".

Captive Bolt Stunning – proscribed – prohibited

Percussion Stunning - proscribed – prohibited

(although above procedures for cattle are allowed by some Ulema's in Africa & Germany)
Gas Stunning – proscribed – prohibited
(although Turkish Ulema's have approved this method for pre-slaughtering of chicken)

Halal Food Authority allows controlled electric stun-with-minuscule amperage, with official Veterinary Surgeon validating that the animal or the birds do not die prior to slaughtering.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

^^^Jazakakallah khayr for the knowledge shared.

Just thought of sharing before anyone confused regarding stunning.

taken from http://www.halalfoodauthority.co.uk/FAQs.html

Q 3. Does Halal Food Authority allow stunning of birds and animals?

A. Yes, however, one has to be reminded that HFA has always maintained "no stunning to kill".

Captive Bolt Stunning – proscribed – prohibited

Percussion Stunning - proscribed – prohibited

(although above procedures for cattle are allowed by some Ulema's in Africa & Germany)
Gas Stunning – proscribed – prohibited
(although Turkish Ulema's have approved this method for pre-slaughtering of chicken)

Halal Food Authority allows controlled electric stun-with-minuscule amperage, with official Veterinary Surgeon validating that the animal or the birds do not die prior to slaughtering.

HFA are sell outs. I have spoken to them on a number of occassion regarding stunning and they never satisfied by heart at all. They are far too liberal on these matters and do not have scholarly backing for their liberal verdicts regarding stunned animals. I asked them a number of times the same questions and they give the same lame answers. I asked them if an animal dies during stunning, for which there is no guarantee that an animal cannot die because although you state that the electric charge is controlled it is not controlled to the extent that it is impossible to kill the animal. He confirmed yes that is true an animal "may" die during stunning. Then i asked him if the animal dies during stunning then does that make the animal haraam to consume? He confirmed yes that is true. Then i asked him so is it true that when stunning animals during slaughter that there are many animals that do die mixed with many that don't. Then he confirmed yes. Then he knew where i was getting at and he started stuttering and i knew he was cornered on this issue.

Basically because there are animals that died prior to slaughter mixed with animals that didnt, it makes the consumption of such meat "doubtful" and this is the verdict of scholars on this issue. As i have mentioned before the Prophet (Salallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) told us to keep away from doubtful matters because we will never get peace in our hearts. After talking to HFA i never got peace in my heart because they were far too liberal and catered mainly for the modern Muslims and secularist Muslim who have the view that if it says halal then its halal end of. They dont care how it was slaughtered or where it came from.

That is why i turned to HMC (Halal Monitoring committee). They have a board of scholar whom they gain their stance from regarding slaughter methods. They do not accept stunning because stunning cannot be controlled enough to ensure that the animal does not die. After speaking to them just once i immediately had peace and satisfaction in my heart that they were very thorough on this matter and that they also had a lot of scholarly backing in the UK whereas HFA did not. HFA were modernists whereas HMC kept to the proper scholarly view on matters pertaining to halal slaughter. They have monitors across the country who visit certified abbatoires, slaughter houses and food outlets randomly to ensure that those outlets are selling meat which has been slaughtered in accordance with proper Islamic dhabiha.

HFA do not have any monitors at all. Once i asked the guy, if you have no monitors how do you know that the product is truly halal? The guy start stuttering again and had no proper answer. They have got to be the worst representatives for Muslims. I would ask everyone to disregard such an organisation and instead stick to HMC.

So in the UK please refer to HMC. You can find a lot of information on their website and they also have a list of certified butchers and restaurants in the UK:

Halal Monitoring Committee:

http://www.halalmc.co.uk/

 

[Insaanah]

Sahih International
And do not eat of that upon which the name of Allah has not been mentioned, for indeed, it is grave disobedience. And indeed do the devils inspire their allies [among men] to dispute with you. And if you were to obey them, indeed, you would be associators [of others with Him]. (6:121)

This is clear. We cannot eat meat upon which the name of Allah has not been mentioned. We are kidding ourselves if we think we are living in practising Christian countries. We live in secular countries, where religion is being restricted to the sphere of the home, not to interfere with any other activities, commercial or otherwise, and atheism is increasingly becoming the norm.

Even practising Christians these days do not take God's name before the slaughter of animals because they consider themselves free of the covenant that bound the Jews and thus are free from following the law, because they say that Jesus (peace be upon him) fulfilled the law for them, and freed them from having to follow it. This is why they do not follow the dietary laws of the Old Testament. Whereas Christians at the time of the Prophet :saws: most likely did follow the law revealed to them by Allah, or something pretty close to it.

So let us not try to convince ourselves that Christians are saying, "In the name of God" before they slaughter each animal (separate issue that they believe that Jesus is God and His son at the same time). Also remember, they could have slaughtered a pig with the same knife or machine that they slaughtered the lamb that somebody considers permissible to eat, and as they would have no segregation, there could be traces of pig blood or meat on the lamb. They also do not drain blood.

I would endorse completely what Brother Hamza has said about the HFA. They even publish their stunning methods on their website and use electric water baths and electric tongs to stun the animals. They should be avoided. The HMC is currently the most reliable halal organisation in the UK.