Is peace ever possible between the worst enemies?

Doesn't a Sharia system permit freedom of religion? Jews and Christians are free to practice their faiths while living in a Sharia governance if I am correct. So if you are for peace and religious freedom, why not speak of supporting the implementation of Sharia rather than vague ideas of "freedom" and "equality?" I am not a scholar and very far from it so anyone who thinks I am off track here, please examine what our sources have to say on these issues--the Qur'an and Sunnah. That goes for you too Sister Herb.


What would my rights as an atheist be under a sharia system? Why should I live under rules implemented by a god in which I don't believe? A secular democracy is never going to be perfect, but it allows the maximum freedom to the maximum number of people
 
Like I said I am not a scholar. Hopefully an educated Muslim well-read in Qur'an and Hadith can clarify these concerns of yours. I am also curious how non-Muslims who are not Ahl Al-Kitaab (people of the book) such as pagans and atheists would fit into a Sharia system. I am not aware of Sharia requiring non-Muslims to engage in Islamic duties such as Salat (prayer) and Sawm (fasting during Ramadaan). You might just have to find something to do for 15 minutes while others are praying and might have to eat at home during Ramadaan as restaurants would be closed (Muslim-owned ones anyway). As to moral/ethical standards of Sharia such as don't kill, steal, etc. these are universal human values. I think your fears are unfounded. Then again, insha'Allah an educated Muslim will clarify this matter.
 
I afraid that finding peace goes quite difficult if we start to looking for preconditions before we even have any peace.

Have you any visited in Jordan? When I the first time visited there I wasn´t Muslim but the Christian. It was time of Ramadan over 20 years ago. There were different laws to muslims and to christians for family courts and seemed that also in society. During Ramadan I was free to eat in restaurant and drink wine while muslim didn´t do it.

None came to tell me that it is HARAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM! because they saw I am not muslim.

I felt that kind of society quite equal... even to the People of the Book (Christians, Jews and Muslims).
 
And I'd like a world with no religion at all. But what I want would be unfair to those who want to practise their religion. So some sort of compromise is needed. Surely you can recognise that to force Islamic rule on non-muslims would be equally unfair?
Islam isn't forced on anyone. Secularism is forced on us- so how is that a compromise?

best,
 
This is off topic, but since it has cropped up, it will need some clarifications...

In 2009 I had the privilege to go to Jerusalem, and stand by the Wailing Wall or Western Wall, it is part of a huge structure called the Temple Mount, which is a sacred place to the Jews Christians and Muslims. Abraham was said to have offered his son as a sacrifice in the region of Mount Moriah. ...

Ibrahim :as: (Abraham) was asked to offer his son Isma'eel :as: as a sacrifice in Makkah, in the valley of Mina. While he was about to sacrifice him, Allah :swt: replaced him with a lamb and when Ibrahim :as: opened his eyes, he saw a sacrificed lamb laying in front of him instead of his son. Muslims are required to follow the practice of sacrifice every year on 'Eid Al-Adhha, 10th of Zil Hijjah (the last month of Islamic calendar) in remembrance of the sacrifice of Ibrahim :as:.

Allah :swt: says in Surah As-Saaffaat:

37:83 And indeed, among his kind was Abraham,
37:84 When he came to his Lord with a sound heart
37:85 [And] when he said to his father and his people, "What do you worship?
37:86 Is it falsehood [as] gods other than Allah you desire?
37:87 Then what is your thought about the Lord of the worlds?"
37:88 And he cast a look at the stars
37:89 And said, "Indeed, I am [about to be] ill."
37:90 So they turned away from him, departing.
37:91 Then he turned to their gods and said, "Do you not eat?
37:92 What is [wrong] with you that you do not speak?"
37:93 And he turned upon them a blow with [his] right hand.
37:94 Then the people came toward him, hastening.
37:95 He said, "Do you worship that which you [yourselves] carve,
37:96 While Allah created you and that which you do?"
37:97 They said, "Construct for him a furnace and throw him into the burning fire."
37:98 And they intended for him a plan, but We made them the most debased.
37:99 And [then] he said, "Indeed, I will go to [where I am ordered by] my Lord; He will guide me.
37:100 My Lord, grant me [a child] from among the righteous."
37:101 So We gave him good tidings of a forbearing boy.
37:102 And when he reached with him [the age of] exertion, he said, "O my son, indeed I have seen in a dream that I [must] sacrifice you, so see what you think." He said, "O my father, do as you are commanded. You will find me, if Allah wills, of the steadfast."
37:103 And when they had both submitted and he put him down upon his forehead,
37:104 We called to him, "O Abraham,
37:105 You have fulfilled the vision." Indeed, We thus reward the doers of good.
37:106 Indeed, this was the clear trial.
37:107 And We ransomed him with a great sacrifice,
37:108 And We left for him [favorable mention] among later generations:
37:109 "Peace upon Abraham."
37:110 Indeed, We thus reward the doers of good.
37:111 Indeed, he was of Our believing servants.
37:112 And We gave him good tidings of Isaac, a prophet from among the righteous.
37:113 And We blessed him and Isaac. But among their descendants is the doer of good and the clearly unjust to himself.


Please go through some of the posts in this thread again for further clarification: http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifi...34277727-sacrifice-ismaeel-s.html#post1102495


^^ I can see the state of peace where everyone can follow they own religions freely, where state respects peoples own choices and its name might be Palestine. State and any political doctrine has to be then separated: you can be there equal in the society, just same if you are sunni, shia, jew, christian, bahai, atheist, agnostic, buddhist or even wicca.

:statisfie

That is my dream.

No I am not but also I am for freedom. Palestine now is not islamic country at all - there live several religions as there have always lived. Should I dream that every others (non-muslims) there have to accept rules of my religion? What if to think to give freedom to everyone believe and live like they feel is right and then try to live in peace with your neigborg? Would that too hard?

:statisfie

And I'd like a world with no religion at all. But what I want would be unfair to those who want to practise their religion. So some sort of compromise is needed. Surely you can recognise that to force Islamic rule on non-muslims would be equally unfair?

... Personally I see it very un-islamic try to force non-muslims to follow rules of Islam if they don´t want. They, like everyone else, must have right to follow other paths if they want.

And what about followers of other religions in Palestine whose aren´t muslims, jews or christians? Should atheists or buddhists or wiccas or bahais follow it too?

What would my rights as an atheist be under a sharia system? Why should I live under rules implemented by a god in which I don't believe? A secular democracy is never going to be perfect, but it allows the maximum freedom to the maximum number of people

It seems like you are unaware of what Sharia system actually is. Sharia law is only applicable to Muslims. In a Sharia system, Non-Muslims are free to practice their own religion and they are not forced to embrace Islam. It provides justice for all the people, be them Muslim or non-Muslim.

Allah :swt: says:


5:42 [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, devourers of [what is] unlawful. So if they come to you, [O Muhammad], judge between them or turn away from them. And if you turn away from them - never will they harm you at all. And if you judge, judge between them with justice. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.
5:43 But how is it that they come to you for judgement while they have the Torah, in which is the judgement of Allah? Then they turn away, [even] after that; but those are not [in fact] believers.
5:44 Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah, and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers.
5:45 And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution. But whoever gives [up his right as] charity, it is an expiation for him. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
5:46 And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous.
5:47 And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.
5:48 And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.
5:49 And judge, [O Muhammad], between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations and beware of them, lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah has revealed to you. And if they turn away - then know that Allah only intends to afflict them with some of their [own] sins. And indeed, many among the people are defiantly disobedient.
5:50 Then is it the judgement of [the time of] ignorance they desire? But who is better than Allah in judgement for a people who are certain [in faith].


All these verses clearly ask the Prophet :saws: and the Muslims to judge the people according to their own scriptures.

Please read the following passage about Religious Tolerance in Islam:


A Unique Tolerance

There are degrees to religious tolerance. The lowest degree is that of allowing one's opponent to enjoy the freedom of his faith. Doubtless in such a case, the individuals are allowed to enjoy freedom of faith, but he might not be able to exercise his religious obligations or to abstain from prohibitions according to his faith.

A moderate degree of tolerance is to allow an individual to believe in a faith of his choice. In this case, he is neither compelled to discard his religious obligations nor is he forced to act contrary to his faith. For instance, a Jew believes that working on Saturdays is prohibited in his faith. Forcing him to work on that day is, therefore, not tolerance. Likewise a Christian, who goes to church on Sundays as part of his faith, should not be constrained from attending it.

The highest degree of tolerance is allowing people of other faiths to follow their way, even though some of their practices might conflict with the religion of the majority. It was this degree of tolerance that the Muslims adopted toward their non-Muslim citizens.

Muslims tolerated the religious practices of their minorities by not prohibiting even those practices, which were contrary to the state ideology. Such prohibitions, if Muslims had imposed them on non-Muslims, would not have been considered as fanaticism, for that which is considered lawful in a religion is not necessarily an imposed obligation.

For example, although a Magian may marry his mother or sister, he may also marry any other woman without this being frowned upon; or a Christian, who is permitted to eat pork, may also eat beef or lamb or poultry, just as he may abstain from drinking wine, even though the Gospels permit the consumption of wine. Consequently, had Islam ordered the non-Muslims to abstain from marriage with close relatives, which is prohibited by the shari'ah, or to abstain from wine or pork for the sake of their Muslim brothers, this would not have caused them any religious conflicts, since these practices are not obligatory for them.

Nevertheless, Islam did not make any such demands, nor did it ever intend to take non-Muslims to task on matters lawful in their religion but unlawful in Islam. On the contrary, Islam enjoins upon Muslims to allow non-Muslims to observe any practice, which they believe to be lawful in their religion.



The Muslim Tolerance

There is another aspect of this matter which cannot be found in the edicts of the law, nor can it be enforced by the courts or the government: this is the so-called "spirit of tolerance" which underlies upright attitudes, benevolent dealings, respect for one's neighbors, and all the sincere sentiments of piety, compassion, and courtesy. Such attitude is required in everyday life and cannot be obtained through constitutional legislation or the courts' jurisdiction. The spirit of tolerance is exclusively practiced in Islamic society. It appears in several verses of the Qur'an, which tell of parents who attempted to turn their sons from the unity of God to polytheism: "You bear them company in this life with justice." (Luqman: 15)

Similar too is the call of the Qur'an to righteousness and justice in dealings with the non-Muslims who do not oppose Muslims in their religion: "God forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them, for God loves those who are just." (Al-Mumtahanah : 8)

The Qur'an describes the righteous in the following terms: "And they feed, for the love of God, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive." (Al-Insan : 8)

The captives, at the time of this verse's revelation, were polytheists. The Qur'an also explains that there is no harm in incurring expenses on behalf of polytheists who are relatives or neighbors of Muslims: "It is not required of you (O Apostle) to see them on the right path, but God sets on the right path whom He pleases. Whatever good you give benefits you own souls. And you shall only do so seeking the "Face of God." (Al-Baqarah: 272)


Muhammad ibn al-Hasan, Abu Hanifah's colleague and scribe, has reported that the Prophet had sent money to the people of Makkah when they were facing drought. It was to be distributed among the poor, although the Prophet and his companions had undergone a great deal of torture and oppression at the Makkah's hands.

Imams Al-Bukhari, Muslim, and Ahmad related on the authority of 'Asma bint Abi Bakr that she said: "During the covenant with the Quraish, my polytheistic mother came to see me. I asked the Prophet, upon whom be peace, 'O Messenger of Allah, if my mother came to me wishing to see me, should I maintain good relations with her?' He replied, 'Yes you should treat her kindly.

The words of the Qur'an indicate the correct manner of discussion with non-Muslims: "And do not dispute with the people of the book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury). But say: 'we believe in the Revelation, which has come down to us and in that which came down to you. Our God and your God is one." (Al-Ankabut: 46)


This tolerance manifests itself very clearly in the conduct of the Prophet, in his dealings with the people of the book, whether Christians or Jews. The Prophet used to visit them, treat them kindly and with respect, console their sick and deal with them in terms of "live and let live."

Ibn Ishaq in his Sirah (biography of the Prophet) stated: 'When the delegation of Najrani Christians came to the Prophet at Madinah, they entered his mosque in the afternoon to meet him. It was their prayer time, so they began to perform their prayer in the mosque. Some Muslims were about to prevent them from doing so, but the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "Let them pray.", So they faced eastward and performed their prayer.'

Based on the preceding incident, Ibn al-Qayyim, a mujtahid scholar, put up a sign in front of the mosque reading "Admission granted to people of the book that the people of the book could perform their prayers in the presence of Muslims was evidently clear to him.


http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifications-about-islam/46087-religious-toleration.html#post790412


Please go through the following links as well. :ia: it will provide a better insight into what Sharia system actually is and clear any misconceptions.


Islamic State

The Islamic State - A Conceptual Analysis
Islamic Politics - Forming an Islamic Democracy.
Islamic Citizenship - System of Rights
Open Challenge to Christians - Page 6 onwards
[post] Religious toleration?
[post] Religious toleration?
Tolerance in Islam
The Muslim-Christian dialogue - I
The Muslim-Christian dialogue - II
Is this true? [Insulting the Prophet] - All punishments carried out by Islamic state; no vigilante justice
Treatment of prisoners-of-war in Islam
Health care for prisoners in Islam.



Dhimmi
The Rights of a Dhimmi (non muslim) & Muslim in an Islamic State.
Dhimmi - ذمي
[post] How do you treat an apostate?



Jizya
The Jizyah – A Tax on Non-Muslims?
Jizya in Islam



Modernistic/Progressive trends

[post] Lashing, stoning, mutilating: Islamic law is barbaric and outdated. Defend the ca
Making progress with the progressives: transcript of a good lecture by Yasir Qadhi. 'Salman in this allegory symbolizes the few pseudo intellectuals who feel Islam can not be a divine religion because it tells women to cover themselves up or that it allows polygamy or that it instructs its followers to cut off the hands of the thief...'


The Ideological Divide Between Islam and the West Vol I: Defining the Subjects of Difference

The Role of Reason and Intellect Between the Modern Western Paradigm and Islam

[post] Secularising Islam?



Useful links about Shariah
Maqasid al Shariah: The Objectives of Islamic Law, Dr Mohammad Hashim Kamali [also posted here]
Understanding the Hadith - principles in understanding Qur'an and Hadith
[youtube] Episode 1: The Use & Abuse of Maqaasid as-Sharia - other episodes on youtube
[Islam21c] Playing with Maqasid
[Islam21c] A Call for Muslims to Support the Integration of Parts of Shari’ah into the British Judicial System

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifi...4-new-index-useful-threads-2.html#post1550876



As for peace between Muslims and Jews, it can only be established if they stop breaking the treaties and return what is due of everyone else.

Allah :swt: says,


8:55 Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are those who have disbelieved, and they will not [ever] believe -
8:56 The ones with whom you made a treaty but then they break their pledge every time, and they do not fear Allah .
8:57 So if you, [O Muhammad], gain dominance over them in war, disperse by [means of] them those behind them that perhaps they will be reminded.
8:58 If you [have reason to] fear from a people betrayal, throw [their treaty] back to them, [putting you] on equal terms. Indeed, Allah does not like traitors.
8:59 And let not those who disbelieve think they will escape. Indeed, they will not cause failure [to Allah ].


5:64 And the Jews say, "The hand of Allah is chained." Chained are their hands, and cursed are they for what they say. Rather, both His hands are extended; He spends however He wills. And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. And We have cast among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. Every time they kindled the fire of war [against you], Allah extinguished it. And they strive throughout the land [causing] corruption, and Allah does not like corrupters.
 
ibṉĀdam;1594961 said:
It seems like you are unaware of what Sharia system actually is. Sharia law is only applicable to Muslims. In a Sharia system, Non-Muslims are free to practice their own religion and they are not forced to embrace Islam. It provides justice for all the people, be them Muslim or non-Muslim.

Salam alaykum

Thanks about information. It seems to be then like multicultural/religion system? Everyone can lives by their own laws be belief matters? For muslims, we just call it as sharia-system?

Others can then call it by they systems - what ever they are.

It seems that peace might be possible. :D
 

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