Is Rubicon Haram

[LauraS]

I would say they're soft drinks, even if they do contain the minutest trace of alcohol. In the grand scheme of things, if there is a God, I doubt He's making much note of the juice drinks people are consuming. :hmm:

 

[جوري]

I would say they're soft drinks, even if they do contain the minutest trace of alcohol. In the grand scheme of things, if there is a God, I doubt He's making much note of the juice drinks people are consuming.

would you drink milk knowing it has 1% pig urine? well such is alcohol for Muslims what forbids it, is something entirely different than merely being grossed out since even consuming 1% of pig urine isn't liable to do much damage. Since you are not God you can't speak for God, and since you don't know whether the drink is soft or hard then there is no room for an opinion here either and lastly, since you are not a Muslim don't concern yourself with the very personal affairs of Muslims!

all the best

 

[جوري]

for the Muslims on board:

“That which is lawful is plain, and that which is unlawful is plain and between the two of them are doubtful matters about which not many people know. Thus he who avoids doubtful matters clears himself in regard to his religion and his honor, but he who falls into doubtful matters falls into that which is unlawful, like the shepherd who pastures around a sanctuary, all but grazing therein. Truly every king has a sanctuary, and truly Allah’s sanctuary is His prohibitions. Truly in the body there is a morsel of flesh which, if it be whole, all the body is whole and which, if it be diseased, all of it is diseased. Truly it is the heart.” Narrated by Bukhari and Muslim

 

[Dagless]

Is it related to "How much" ? or to the "necessity" to use these products with small amounts of alcohol ? (eg : medicaments containing some alcohol or porc).
I think there is a rule saying that : If a big amount of drink can get you drunk, then a small amount of it is haram too. This includes alcohol.
But another rule says that necessity can bypass prohibitions.

don't see any necessity to have a drink containing a little amount of alcohol, unless there is no other fluids around and you're alone in a desert.

I'm not a scholar, but that's what I know. WAllahu Aalam.

This is true, but you take the drink as a whole. If drinking a large quantity of Rubicon drinks can intoxicate then of course it is haram, but if the amount of alcohol is so small that no amount of drink can intoxicate then I assume it is ok. Please can somebody correct me if this is not the case.

 

[GuestFellow]

o_o

I am surprised we are still debating about this.

PLEASE READ

^ I hope this puts an end to this topic.

 

[marwen]

This is true, but you take the drink as a whole. If drinking a large quantity of Rubicon drinks can intoxicate then of course it is haram, but if the amount of alcohol is so small that no amount of drink can intoxicate then I assume it is ok. Please can somebody correct me if this is not the case.

I see..
You're making an interesting point here. I didn't thought about it this way.

PLEASE READ

Jazaka Allahu Khayran for this reference.

 

[S.Belle]

aussies what a rare find they are in the U.S well actually not so rare in NYC but in the U.S..

I meant Assi (a market...i spelled it wrong the first time sorries) not Aussie (a person from Australia)
I get mine there (Assi) so they may have them in your area as well inshallah
here is one in NYC i found maybe you live near it
http://www.yelp.com/biz/assi-plaza-flushing

 

[جوري]

I meant Assi (a market...i spelled it wrong the first time sorries) not Aussie (a person from Australia)
I get mine there (Assi) so they may have them in your area as well inshallah
here is one in NYC i found maybe you live near it
http://www.yelp.com/biz/assi-plaza-flushing

oh Jazaki Allah khyran.. yeah I thought aussie was a bit weird too but then I figured maybe they dig that sort of thing :haha:

 

[Dagless]

You're making an interesting point here. I didn't thought about it this way.

This site is interesting, but unfortunately I have not been able to verify the hadith on there so am hesitant to post it:

http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-409-3342.htm

 

[Muhaba]

if it contains alcohol then it is haram. a lot of drinks are doubtful. for example in ramadan we found out that soda drinks contain sodium benzoate. To make sodium benzoate tuluene is used and to make tuluene, methyl alcohol is used. i think that would make anything consisting of sodium benzoate haram. If it's true that sodas such as coca cola are haram due to this, then all muslims need to be warned since a lot of muslims drink them.

 

[Dagless]

if it contains alcohol then it is haram. a lot of drinks are doubtful. for example in ramadan we found out that soda drinks contain sodium benzoate. To make sodium benzoate tuluene is used and to make tuluene, methyl alcohol is used. i think that would make anything consisting of sodium benzoate haram. If it's true that sodas such as coca cola are haram due to this, then all muslims need to be warned since a lot of muslims drink them.

To make such a leap (ie. saying that anything made using alcohol is also haram) you would need to state strong evidence.

 

[Muhaba]

^I don't have evidence and as you can see from my post, i didn't say it made it haram. I wrote that if it's true that it makes it haram then muslims should be warned. I only pointed it out and those with chemistry + islamic knowledge should research this & then give proper fatwa. Personally i won't be drinking anything containing something that uses alcohol in the chemical process. i also don't think it's allowed to use alcohol to prepare something, then how can we say that it's allowed to drink it?

 

[أحمد]

Reported by Tirmidhi, that Allah's curse is upon one who makes, sells, transports or has anything to do with the trade, serving or consumption of khamr. Muslim reports, that khamr in all forms is haram.

:wa:

 

[Ramadhan]

Reported by Tirmidhi, that Allah's curse is upon one who makes, sells, transports or has anything to do with the trade, serving or consumption of khamr. Muslim reports, that khamr in all forms is haram.

I am underlining the word "khamr"

are all ethanols (ie. "alcohols") can be considered as "khamr", or only ethanols used specifically in "alcoholic drinks"?
Because from the hadith and the qur'an verses relating with khamr, it seems only limiting (production, trade, serving of) alcoholic drinks, not alcohol/ethanol in general.

If all ethanols (not just alcoholic drinks) are haram, then we cannot use countless industrial products, because ethanols is such a great solvents, they are used in so many industrial processes and applications, and is base for many organic compounds, including drugs (like aspirin), cosmetics, antiseptics, feedstocks, fuel, and even alcohol thermometer.

 

[Muhaba]

^This needs lot of research, because from what i know, all intoxicants are haram. so if something is chemically alcohol (has the chemical formula of alcohol), then the question is, does it intoxicate? if not, then i don't see why it would be considered haram. if the thing will intoxicate (if taken in large quantities) then it would be haram even in small quantities.

But those are just my thoughts on this. i don't have knowledge of chemistry. rightnow, i just avoid such things that contain any alcohol, etc just to be on the safe side.

 

[أحمد]

I am underlining the word "khamr"

are all ethanols (ie. "alcohols") can be considered as "khamr", or only ethanols used specifically in "alcoholic drinks"?
Because from the hadith and the qur'an verses relating with khamr, it seems only limiting (production, trade, serving of) alcoholic drinks, not alcohol/ethanol in general.

If all ethanols (not just alcoholic drinks) are haram, then we cannot use countless industrial products, because ethanols is such a great solvents, they are used in so many industrial processes and applications, and is base for many organic compounds, including drugs (like aspirin), cosmetics, antiseptics, feedstocks, fuel, and even alcohol thermometer.

"All intoxicants are khamr, all forms of khamr are haram" (Muslim).

As for non-intoxicating forms of alcohol; there is such a posibility. Alcohol itself is an arabic word, but its not mentioned in ahadeeth as haram; only the intoxicating form is mentioned to be haram. Does this mean drinks containing small amounts of alcohol are halal? No, it neither means they are haram, nor does it mean they are halal. It means, you need more knowledge of chemistry to understand this matter more clearly. Without such knowledge, the most we can do is guess. If you have to guess, then the matter is doubtful; in which case, you should avoid it until you get confirmation.

:wa:

 

[جوري]

I am underlining the word "khamr"

are all ethanols (ie. "alcohols") can be considered as "khamr", or only ethanols used specifically in "alcoholic drinks"?
Because from the hadith and the qur'an verses relating with khamr, it seems only limiting (production, trade, serving of) alcoholic drinks, not alcohol/ethanol in general.

If all ethanols (not just alcoholic drinks) are haram, then we cannot use countless industrial products, because ethanols is such a great solvents, they are used in so many industrial processes and applications, and is base for many organic compounds, including drugs (like aspirin), cosmetics, antiseptics, feedstocks, fuel, and even alcohol thermometer.

"All intoxicants are khamr, all forms of khamr are haram" (Muslim).

As for non-intoxicating forms of alcohol; there is such a posibility. Alcohol itself is an arabic word, but its not mentioned in ahadeeth as haram; only the intoxicating form is mentioned to be haram. Does this mean drinks containing small amounts of alcohol are halal? No, it neither means they are haram, nor does it mean they are halal. It means, you need more knowledge of chemistry to understand this matter more clearly. Without such knowledge, the most we can do is guess. If you have to guess, then the matter is doubtful; in which case, you should avoid it until you get confirmation.

:wa:

you guys got it.. what we call an alcohol in chemistry and I am NO CHEMIST is a hydroxyl group.. that is how we end up with methanol, ethanol, isopropyl, 'antifreeze' etc. believe me people drink all kinds of things-- and yet they might not be considered intoxicants but would definitely fall under the category of throwing ones soul in harms way which is definitely a 7aram. you can have everything from renal failure to blindness without having a change in mental status.

That is why matters of jurisprudence really require study and espousal of Islam and science.. someone like sheikh salih ar'rachid holds both a physics doctorate and one in Islamic jurisprudence I believe-- that is what we would need insha'Allah..

and Allah swt knows best

 

[Woodrow]

^I don't have evidence and as you can see from my post, i didn't say it made it haram. I wrote that if it's true that it makes it haram then muslims should be warned. I only pointed it out and those with chemistry + islamic knowledge should research this & then give proper fatwa. Personally i won't be drinking anything containing something that uses alcohol in the chemical process. i also don't think it's allowed to use alcohol to prepare something, then how can we say that it's allowed to drink it?

Here there needs to be clarification as to what alcohol is. In general common usage it is the intoxicant usually simply called alcohol.

But chemically alcohol is a group of organic salts any carbohydrate with an OH radical. The chemical definition and naming of alcohols differs from common usage of the word alcohol. Many things you would not think of as alcohol are alcohols by the chemical definition. (Name)

While the intoxicant common alcohol is chemically ethyl alcohol other alcohols are not drinkable nor are intoxicants such as butyl alcohol which is a natural part of ghee a halal cooking butter. methyl alcohol is also another alcohol while poisonous and non drinkable it is a substance that is part of most flavorings both synthetic and natural. It is found as a component in the mint family of plants. Butyl alcohol is part of the ester that gives pineapples their distinct flavor. All fruits, vegetables, spices, and flowers contain some type of alcohol, but not the intoxicant Ethyl alcohol, also called ethanol.

Ethanol was the first named alcohol and the alcohol mentioned in the Qur'an. The names of the other alcohols did not come about until the late 1700s when the chemical definitions were made.


Ethanol (ethyl alcohol) is the intoxicant and the alcohol to avoid.

I should also point out that very many of the chemical alcohols in pure form are not not drinkable and can be deadly poisons if ingested. They are not intended to be part of our food chain. But that does not mean they are haram for other uses such as lamp fuel, anti freeze , antiseptics, cleansing products, fragrances etc.