Curaezipirid
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Where as I complimented it so that you might believe that you are on the right track despite you adversarial condition.
Is Science an actual Religion; and for who?
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Where as I complimented it so that you might believe that you are on the right track despite you adversarial condition.
Trumble
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Some 'testing' of what? I suggest you "waste" a few minutes actually thinking about the question. What IS "zero gravity"? You can't pick up a piece of zero gravity and place it in the midst of an experiment to see what happens. You can't remove it and see what happens. Ditto with the other fundamental forces I mentioned.
All you can do is examine what happens to a physical object, or objects, in different places in space. In all of those places that object or objects will begin to accelerate in some direction or other, relative to something or other (the observer, if you like) at varying rates. That is ALL you can observe, moving objects - not 'gravity'. The scientific explanation for that movement is called 'gravity', that being no more than some equations that happen to explain and be capable of predicting that behaviour.
Now, let's look at God. Say that it isn't gravity that moves those objects, its God. God, being both omnipotent and omniscient could, of course, move those objects and any other objects (stars, planets, whatever) any way he liked. He may well choose to do so in accordance with with what we call 'Newtonian motion' - or indeed relativistic motion if you want to be picky - most of the time. But He doesn't have to, one day He might decide to do something totally different for some deep purpose we cannot understand. We might be watching, we might not be.
The point is that both scenarios provide satisfactory explanations as to why those objects move. Neither can be 'proved' or 'disproved'. In neither case can we manipulate the 'force' concerned, be it gravity or God. There are such things as 'wind machines', but there is no gravity machine, or of course God machine. As I said, the only reason the 'gravity' explanation is preferred - even by theists (although they might believe, of course, that God 'created' gravity) - is that it seems more likely.
Which demonstrates exactly what? See above. In that instance you are just begging the question by assuming there is a gravitational force to place the object in.
No, although its hardly surprising. Most meditation activity, Buddhist or not calms the mind, thus relieving stress, which is one reason many people do it. The effect on brain activity can be scientifically measured, although that can't be directle equated to 'feeling' less stressed.
Example of science at work:
We can observe that we have a “0” and a “9” but we don’t know what is in between.
A scientist comes up with an idea and discovers a “5”.
Three more scientists in different places completely independently do the same test and confirm the findings. Now we have a “5”.
Yeas later, the technology and instruments have improved. Yet another scientist does a completely different test and once again confirms the “5”. But during the experiment, he finds a “7”.
After finding the “7”, the scientist concludes that between the “5” and the “7”, there is a “6”.
This really excites the scientific community and they do lots of experiments to confirm the “7” and the “6”.
Unfortunately the “6” was not confirmed by the other experiments but it is reasonable to conclude there is a “6” between the “5” and the “7”.
For the purpose of other experiments, scientists will assume there is a “6” until it is proven otherwise.
Science is not religion, it is a methodology.
We can observe that we have a “0” and a “9” but we don’t know what is in between.
A scientist comes up with an idea and discovers a “5”.
Three more scientists in different places completely independently do the same test and confirm the findings. Now we have a “5”.
Yeas later, the technology and instruments have improved. Yet another scientist does a completely different test and once again confirms the “5”. But during the experiment, he finds a “7”.
After finding the “7”, the scientist concludes that between the “5” and the “7”, there is a “6”.
This really excites the scientific community and they do lots of experiments to confirm the “7” and the “6”.
Unfortunately the “6” was not confirmed by the other experiments but it is reasonable to conclude there is a “6” between the “5” and the “7”.
For the purpose of other experiments, scientists will assume there is a “6” until it is proven otherwise.
Science is not religion, it is a methodology.
Curaezipirid
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Is not all Religion methodology?
A methodological manner of prescribing what are the most healthy Human mental patterns.
A good Religion provides methodology for prescribing Human mental patterns which cause Human beings to form mental associations to examples of becoming certain that no Human could possibly be responsible for having caused much of what our experience is.
As for the oh so very seemingly difficult concept of God/Allah, that is clearly too simple for some folk, never associate any of your own mental patterns with what God might or might not be able, since you run the risk of deifying yourself in your own mind. And we can all agree I am sure that "I like my point of view best" does not qualify any semblence of belief in any amount of matter.
But I should get to the point here: Perhaps, just perhaps, God is less able to vary any real phenomena than we could suppose. Perhaps in one single instance of creation God conceived of every realisable possiblity: and then became the manifestation of, without any new possible arrangment able to be made, from the point of view of Elohim Allah, or God. In fact, that is what is meant by the teaching that Mohammed is the last Prophet. It does not mean that no other persons can exist whom will be capable of making prophesy; but that there are no further Prophesies Allah knows we need to be aware of. So Allah can not just decide to change any of it around now. We each in fact have more room to move than Allah because Allah is perfect, where as we are within the realm of being mistaken at times. So we may vary our mistakes and then find that either our variance accorded that we lost sight of prophesy and so missed a boat or two, or that our variance, oops, actually could make any of us responsible for having caused some of the nastier prophesies. But that is Islam as a known Religion, and here I am trying to make an argument that there is a form of Islam in which the only identity available is that of scientific method.
According to the will of Allah means according to the pattern predetermined to be the one which best enables the most life.
Incidentally the reason that "both scenarios provide satisfactory explainations for why objects move" might be because they are in fact the very same explaination.
Consider this: what are the full range of options for your own self in placing your own body in any city scape? If you can place your body in any place, the maybe Allah can rearrange matter also.
mu'asalam
A methodological manner of prescribing what are the most healthy Human mental patterns.
A good Religion provides methodology for prescribing Human mental patterns which cause Human beings to form mental associations to examples of becoming certain that no Human could possibly be responsible for having caused much of what our experience is.
As for the oh so very seemingly difficult concept of God/Allah, that is clearly too simple for some folk, never associate any of your own mental patterns with what God might or might not be able, since you run the risk of deifying yourself in your own mind. And we can all agree I am sure that "I like my point of view best" does not qualify any semblence of belief in any amount of matter.
But I should get to the point here: Perhaps, just perhaps, God is less able to vary any real phenomena than we could suppose. Perhaps in one single instance of creation God conceived of every realisable possiblity: and then became the manifestation of, without any new possible arrangment able to be made, from the point of view of Elohim Allah, or God. In fact, that is what is meant by the teaching that Mohammed is the last Prophet. It does not mean that no other persons can exist whom will be capable of making prophesy; but that there are no further Prophesies Allah knows we need to be aware of. So Allah can not just decide to change any of it around now. We each in fact have more room to move than Allah because Allah is perfect, where as we are within the realm of being mistaken at times. So we may vary our mistakes and then find that either our variance accorded that we lost sight of prophesy and so missed a boat or two, or that our variance, oops, actually could make any of us responsible for having caused some of the nastier prophesies. But that is Islam as a known Religion, and here I am trying to make an argument that there is a form of Islam in which the only identity available is that of scientific method.
According to the will of Allah means according to the pattern predetermined to be the one which best enables the most life.
Incidentally the reason that "both scenarios provide satisfactory explainations for why objects move" might be because they are in fact the very same explaination.
Consider this: what are the full range of options for your own self in placing your own body in any city scape? If you can place your body in any place, the maybe Allah can rearrange matter also.
mu'asalam
Trumble
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Good point. I would agree that "methodologies" are precisely what all religions are.
Indeed, but a theist could be on very dangerous ground there. The reason that the theory of gravity is universally (to all intents and purposes) accepted is that it both explains and is capable of predicting what will happen in every relevant case. Surely a theist would be very unhappy at the idea that the actions of God could be predicted in such a fashion?
Curaezipirid
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Assalamu Alaikum Trumbe and others reading this thread
There is another way of describing gravitational force. As a Law of falling. Any object "FALLS" toward that which it is closest to in density of the particles of which it is comprised, and density of vibrating energy between the particles.
Not at all. The explainations that Scientifically verifyable laws provide are the most common source of validating faith in one God. Who could have caused that such a Law is in existance besides that constance of creative universal, unifying and absolving, energy of intelligence whom God/Allah is, and within whose consciousness we all can only exist.
However: it is made a point now that we need to concentrate energy upon the what distinguishes scientific methodology as though it could ever have been seperate from Religion. So I now need to also make the point that was Science lacks in methodology which a Religion provides, is behavioural instructions and codes of conduct within which we must focus our minds upon ever causing no harm, and in causing the least possible harm, and in accepting that when we cause harm we must enable that such acts are for the advantage of other persons and not our own self.
I am also now thinking about the significance of Buddhism as a Religion that provides good self discipline in Scientific method for Religion. Pity about Buddhists allowing no belief in One God; but I believe that such a structure within a Religion has only a limited time duration. Trumble: have you the translation of the Kalama Sutra available? It is the best of any Prayer for the methodolgy of Science and I am sure Muslims can obtain beneficience from.
Assalamu Alaikum Curaezipirid
My apology for being imprecise, I was meaning that to experiement upon an object you place it in a myriad of different places in which there are different gravitational forces at work, from that of the Earth Sun and Moon; to being swung around in a bucket.
There is another way of describing gravitational force. As a Law of falling. Any object "FALLS" toward that which it is closest to in density of the particles of which it is comprised, and density of vibrating energy between the particles.
Not at all. The explainations that Scientifically verifyable laws provide are the most common source of validating faith in one God. Who could have caused that such a Law is in existance besides that constance of creative universal, unifying and absolving, energy of intelligence whom God/Allah is, and within whose consciousness we all can only exist.
However: it is made a point now that we need to concentrate energy upon the what distinguishes scientific methodology as though it could ever have been seperate from Religion. So I now need to also make the point that was Science lacks in methodology which a Religion provides, is behavioural instructions and codes of conduct within which we must focus our minds upon ever causing no harm, and in causing the least possible harm, and in accepting that when we cause harm we must enable that such acts are for the advantage of other persons and not our own self.
I am also now thinking about the significance of Buddhism as a Religion that provides good self discipline in Scientific method for Religion. Pity about Buddhists allowing no belief in One God; but I believe that such a structure within a Religion has only a limited time duration. Trumble: have you the translation of the Kalama Sutra available? It is the best of any Prayer for the methodolgy of Science and I am sure Muslims can obtain beneficience from.
Assalamu Alaikum Curaezipirid