Is Secularism Shirk can anyone explain please ?

[Independent]

Let's get one thing out of the way I don't condone the Iranian regime in any form or fashion,

Although Shia, the Iranian regime would seem to be structured in a similar way to what you favour - ie real power is with the religious leader, not the elected government (which isn't a free election anyway). So the system is similar, even if the religion is not the one you want.

 

[جوري]

Although Shia, the Iranian regime would seem to be structured in a similar way to what you favour - ie real power is with the religious leader, not the elected government (which isn't a free election anyway). So the system is similar, even if the religion is not the one you want.

That's not how an Islamic system works, an Islamic system is based on shura/consulship.. so what do you know of what I favor? You're completely presumptuous! A Judiciary system in an Islamic system isn't set up so that some religious leader would get a divine inspiration and bam he passes a ruling or that one man would hold absolute power in fact it isn't about power at all which in and of itself has led Umar Ibn Ilkhtaab to remove Khalid Ibn Ilwaleed from heading the armies even though he had one conquest after the next, but so people wouldn't be entranced with power and forget that all success and all victory comes from Allah not from some man being smart and powerful. It is a sound and foolproof system of which you know nothing and I indeed know little but at least it is a bit more than you to take the liberty to presume for someone else what they would or wouldn't favor!

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

The US has had one revolution (and that was for independence, not merely a change of government). Whereas Iran looks on course for another already. The US is one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Whereas Iran can't even provide petrol to its own people.

One man rule might work for awhile if you're lucky, but in the end it results in chaos and civil war.

This is not a like not a like for like comparison after all the Iranian revolution is only 30+ years old and living under very different historical circumstances. For example Iran is surrounded by enemies and ever since the revolution been under harsh sanctions from those who (try) to control resources means of production (eg. access to technology is limited by US/EU sanctions).

Wouldn't call it 'one man rule' more oligarchic, in fact the similarities with the US is interesting with it narrow concentration of wealth in the hands of the few.

In the question of secularism, yes it has the potential to be dangerous to those who value religious freedom. You only have to look at the old Soviet Union or less extreme example France (ban on headscarf etc etc).

In the UK there was a recent vote on women Archbishops it was rejected for various reasons by the Anglican much to the hysteria of liberal types. In the debate that followed (secular) parliament not so subtly ordered the Church to accept women bishops (regardless of how the vote went.) Don't be surprised in the future when religious believers, organisations will be 'persuaded' to adopt legislation that goes against their beliefs (performing gay marriage etc).

 

[Independent]

the Iranian revolution is only 30+ years old and living under very different historical circumstances.

Revolutions often attract counter revolutions and invasion, that's not unusual. (Look at what happened to the French Revolution). My point is simply that if a governmental system is 'closed' - if there is no in-built mechanism for changing the government and installing a new one - then in the end it will lead to violent overthrow. As for Iran, it's hard to know exactly what's going on. But it shows all the signs of building social tension and frustration with the ruling theocracy.

 

[truthseeker63]

Is Secularism Shirk can anyone explain please ? Does only God have the right be the Legislator ? Since God created Natural Laws Day and Night and the Universe and Humanity and Life ? Does denying that God is the Legislator is this a form of Atheism or Godless thinking ?

 

[truthseeker63]

Can we please get back the topic of my thread thank you ?

 

[Logikon]

I have heard many Muslims say Secularism is Idolatry is this true ?

No, it is not idolitary


I have just made this up but it is intended to illustrate:

In reference to a specific stretch of road:

The Jewish teaching says we should not exceed 40mph
The Christian teaching says we should not exceed 60mph
The Muslim teaching says we should not exceed 80mph

Secularists test the road using different types of vehicles in different conditions.

The tests are done in a scientific manner and all weather conditions and variables are taken into consideration.

The speed limit is set at 65mph

So, secular laws satisfy everybody.
.

 

[جوري]

So, secular laws satisfy everybody.

Secular laws satisfy secularists only! and yes it is a form of kuffr!
You don't get to speak on behalf or Islam or for Muslims!

 

[Akeyi]

I'm not sure which period you're referring to. But at times the Ottoman succession was positively Darwinian - survival of the fittest. Whoever wins, kills off all the possible alternative heirs. And since there was also a harem system, there were spectacular numbers of heirs...

You should not speak about the things you don't know. Harem system is not aganist the islam. Before we talk about harem we need to talk about slavery system which is required when there is war. There are no great wars now. But if there is war slavery is crucial for the weak. Any army who won a victory sees his brother died . In non muslim armies worst things happens. If there would be no slavery then there would be no man left after any victory. Army which has victory would wipe out the defeated army. Slavery saves the lives of the defeated army. And there is so much benefits of this. And tell me who now eats his boss eats and wears what his boss wears. It is the order of our prophet s.a.v that our slave should eat what we eat and should dress what we dress if i am not mistaken.

And have you heard about the people who goes to heaven with chains ?

And far as i know only way to for someone to be a slave is war.
Girls in harem are slaves. Read the fetva about slave girls from imam's of the 4 mezhep.

And i learn about deutsch history. If you ask me only reason they whole europe tried to find a system like ottoman empire which is absolutimus is the defeat ottoman empire.

And not always strongest leads in ottoman empire. There were times which there was a system to decide who will lead. But sometimes they weren't. And there are wars of heirs in ottoman empire. But not always the heir who won the war leaded. Also smartness was important. And there are examples of it. The heir who lost war with another heir was the lead the empire. Also this system already puts the better one in charge. Correct me if i am wrong but islam already says READ QURAN 4/58 .

And islam doesn't say us to lead with a specific system. There are some requirements if they are there. Then it is ok. People have no right to rebel. And one of them is requires a congress.