What I understand from your above post is you are asking what is your proof that after the Prophet death he still receives some knowledge of the unseen.
Below is more then enough proof to prove the Prophet is alive in his grave and still receives some knowledge of the unseen:
Regarding the Martyrs (Shuhada), those who are slain in the path of Allah, Allah Ta^ala says in the Holy Quran:
"And say not of those who are slain in the Way of Allah 'They are dead'. Nay, they are living, though you perceive it not". (al-Baqarah: 154)
“ Think not of those who are slain in Allah's Way as dead. Nay, they are alive, finding their sustenance in the Presence of their Lord". (al-Ale' Imraan: 169)
Since it is evident from the Holy Quran that the Martyrs are alive, then it follows that the Ambiya (alaihimus salaam), whose status are much greater than that of the Martyrs, are also alive. (Fathul Baari Sharah Bukhari)
The above two Ayahs were revealed after the Battle of Badr. The companions used to feel sorry for those who lost their lives in the battle, and used to say:
"Alas, so and so has lost his life and has missed the pleasures of this world!"
Allah Ta'ala revealed these Ayahs clarifying that the Shuhada (Martyrs) are not "dead" but are transferred from one place to another where they live and are fed by the Bounteous Lord who is not deficient of anything. If the Shuhada are not "dead", how can we say that the greatest Apostle, Sayyiduna Rasoolullah, is not alive in his blessed grave?
It was declared in a Hadith, "When a person greets me, Allah Ta'ala sends my soul to my body and I hear his greeting." Some people quoting this Hadith say that the Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) is not alive since his soul returns to his body only when he is greeted.
Imam Jalaal'uddeen as-Suyuti said in the book "Anba' al-adhkiya' fi hayat il-anbiya" that "radda" means "ala al-dawam", i.e. permanently, and not temporarily: in other words, Allah does not return the soul and take it back, then return it again and then take it back again, but He has returned it to Rasoolullah (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) permanently, and the Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) is alive permanently, not intermittently as some ignorant people have suggested.
Another hadith where the Prophet said:
“My life is a great good for you, you will relate about me and it will be related to you, and my death is a great good for you, your actions will be exhibited to me, and if I see goodness I will praise Allah, and if I see evil I will ask forgiveness of Him for you."
(The hadith master al-`Iraqi said in the book of Jana'iz of his work Tarh al-Tathrib fi Sharh al-Taqrib: "Its chain is good" (isnâduhu jayyid). The hadith master al-Haythami said: "Al-Bazzar narrated it and its sub-narrators are the men of the Sahih." The hadith master al-Suyuti declared it sound (sahîh) in al-Mu`jizat and al-Khasa'is. So did al-Qastallani the commentator of al-Bukhari. Al-Munawi also declared, in Fayd al-Qadir, that it is sahîh. So did al-Zurqani in his commentary on al-Qastallani's al-Mawahib al-Laduniyya. So did Shihab al-Din al-Khafaji in his commentary on [al-Qadi `Iyad's] al-Shifa'. So did al-Mulla `Ali al-Qari in his, adding: "Al-Harith ibn Usama narrated it in his Musnad with a sound chain." Ibn Hajar also mentioned it in al-Matalib al-`Alya. This hadith also came to us through another, mursal way from [the Tabi`î] Bakr ibn `Abd Allah al-Muzani. The hadith master Isma`il al-Qadi narrated it in his monograph on the invocation of blessings on the Prophet , and Shaykh al-Albani said about it: "Mursal sahîh."11 The hadith master Ibn `Abd al-Hadi declared it sound (sahîh) despite his excessive rigor and harshness in his book al-Sarim al-Munki. After all this evidence, does any meddler have anything left to say? The hadith is undoubtedly sound, and no-one questions its authenticity.)
Hazrat Abu Darda (May Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Prophet (PBUH) said: ‘Whosoever sends durood upon me, it is presented before me as soon as he finishes.' Hazrat Abu Darda (May Allah be pleased with him) further reports that I asked: ‘Is this also the case after death?' The Prophet (PBUH) replied: ‘The Earth has been prohibited by Allah to eat the bodies of the Prophets,' (Ibne Majah)
It was narrated in a saheeh report that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Prophets are alive in their graves and they pray.” (Narrated by al-Bazzaar; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 2790).
Our Prophet said “On the night of Miraj I passed Prophet Musa’s grave. He was standing in his grave and offering Salat” (Muslim,chapter “Fadhail Musa”)
Even Ibn Taymiyah said “A group of people heard the answer of their salaam. And in the days of Harrah, Said Ibn Al-Musayyib heard the voice of our Prophet saying the Adhan, from his grave. And there are more events like these and they are all true” (Ibn Taymiyah, Iqtidah Siratul-Mustakeen, Page 373)
The above undoubtedly proves with a 100% certainty that the Prophet is alive and still receives some knowledge of the unseen in his blessed grave.
First of All may Alah reward you for replying and trying.
All the above evidence no one will ever disagree with it , but again u did what i was reffering to , U ONLY
Proved and the evidence u provided ONLY proves the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam is alive and recieves sustinance an recieves our salam but u did taweel to derive other conclusions from it as well. see the verse says
And say not of those who are slain in the Way of Allah 'They are dead'. Nay, they are living, though you perceive it not
Think not of those who are slain in Allah's Way as dead. Nay, they are alive, finding their sustenance in the Presence of their Lord
What does these two ayaat n ahadeeth u quoted prove really.
1- The prophets alihum as sallam and martyrs are alive , in their graves or with their lord in jannah.
2- they recieve sustinence
3- they pray
4- The Prophet hears our salam , not by himslef but rather it gets conveyed to him( proves neither does he know the ghaib nor is he present)
BUT NO WHERE IN THOSE AYAAT OR AHADEETH DOES IT SAY THEY ARE PRESENT AND WATCHING/SEEING , AS THAT WAS THE ISSUE RAISED IN THIS THREAD IN THE FIRST PLACE.NOR DOES IT SAY IN THOSE AYAAT N AHADTIH U QUOTED THAT HE STILL GETS TO KNOW SOME OF THE UNSEEN AND ALLAH STILL INFORMS HIM OF SOME OF THE UNSEEN.
and that is why i got into this thread to explain why it is shirk to believe that te Prphet sala lahu alihi wa sallam is present with us as Allah is present with us , he hears n sees , He even knows what we are writing as u claimed in one of your earlier posts.
Now again the evidence u presented does not in any way prove that , reather it does prove that
1-He sala lahua alihi wa salam is alive .
2- He Hears our salams n darood.
3- He recieves his sustenance
4- He prays or anbiyaa in general pray.
the Ayah says
بل احياء عند ربهم يرزقون
Think not of those who are killed in the Way of Allâh as dead. Nay, they are alive,
with their Lord, and they have provisionز
As muslims we first of All believe in this Ayah , but we have to stop where the ayah stops as the Life of Prophets sal lahu alihim is also a matter on unseen itself. How are they Alive , how do they recieve their rizq , its all life of barzakh and its all unseen , whats up to us is to believe in it and affirm it and to stop where the ayah atops n to take from teh ayah what it gives us.
Now can u show me in arabic or english where exactly does in that ayah it says they ARE HAZIR NAZIR , as i explained earlier that Hazir nazir Means PRESNET and Watching. Or where does in this ayah we are informed that he gets to know some of the unseen by Alah aftre He sala lahu alihi wa sallam departed us and is in his life of barzakh
Does the ayah say
حاضرون ناظرون or does it say
عند ربهم يرزقون بعلم الغيب ??
Does the ayah say they are Presnent and with us where ever we are and Watching us and seeing us? Does it or does they Ayah say , No , but they are alive with their lord getting/recieving the knowledge of unseen?
Also about the martyrs ayah which u applied , we believe it but How are they alive is amtter of unseen , and yes some texts do show how land where like this here.
The Prophet – May the Salaah and Salaam of Allah be upon him – said to Umm Haarithah bint an-Nu’maan – after her son was killed in the battle of Badr – after she asked: “Where is he (i.e. is he in Paradise or the Fire)?” – he replied, “Indeed, he is in the highest Firdaws” [al-Bukhaari]
“Indeed the souls of the martyrs are in the hearts of green birds, and they have lanterns hanging underneath the 'arsh (the throne of Allaah). They roam around in Paradise wherever they wish, then they return to their lanterns. So, their Lord enquires: “Do you desire anything?” They say, “What can we desire for, when we roam around in Paradise wherever we wish?” And He asks them this three times. When they realize that they will not cease to be questioned, they say, “O Lord! We wish that you return our souls to our bodies, in order that we be killed in Your Path again” When it is realized that they have no need, they will be left alone.” [Muslim
“The Shuhadaa` are in a green dome beside the river of Baariq, near the gate of Paradise, from which provision comes to them morning and evening” [Saheeh al-Jami 3/235 # 3636]
This is how the ayah was understood by the Prophet and sahaba
When your brothers were killed at Uhud, Allah placed their souls in the hearts of green birds. They frequent the rivers of Paradise, and eat from its fruits, then return to the lanterns under the Throne. When they enjoy the good in their food and drink, and their excellent speech, they say, “We wish that our brothers knew what Allah has prepared for us, so that they will never abstain from Jihad, nor will they refrain from war” So Allah said, “I will inform them of you” So Allah revealed these verses to His Messenger:
“Think not of those killed in the Path of Allah is dead...” (3:169) [Ahmad, Abu Dawud, al-Hakim classified it Saheeh and adh-Dhahabi agreed]
So how can they be present and waching us? how can the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam be Present with us and watching us and knowing of what we do. We affirm and believe what the texts tell us and stop where the text stops and do not conclude conclusions on our own beyond the texts
“The Shaheed is granted seven special favours from Allah. He is forgiven (his sins) at the first drop of his blood. He sees his place in Paradise. He is dressed in the clothes of Iman. He is married to the Hoor al-‘Ain (beautiful women of Paradise). He is saved from the punishment of the grave. He will be protected from the great fear of the Day of Judgement. A crown of honour will be placed on his head, one jewel of which is better than the whole world and what it contains. He is married to seventy-two of the Hoor al-‘Ain (beautiful women of Paradise), and he will be able to intercede for seventy members of his family.” [Saheeh – Related by Ahmad, at-Tirmidhi and Ibn Hibbaan]
even here there are seven favors awarded to shaheeds , i do not see knowedge of unseen in there nor do i see them being present and watching or hazir nazir.
Does the ayat and ahadeeth u brough say they are Presnent and with us where ever we are and Watching us and seeing us? Does it or does they Ayah say , No , but they are alive with their lord getting/recieving the knowledge of unseen?
It does not , It was the taweel u did to prove something that the ayah does not prove, this was my point , this is always the way of the people of innovation , they take one ayah that proves one thing and then do taweel of it and make it prove something that has notthing to do with it , nor does it in any way means what they make it mean. So outwardly they bring u quran and hadeeth but what their chests conceal is bigger , وما يخفى صدورهم اكبر
Its very often that they will bring an evidence and prove one thing for one situation or person and than clam if its true for him why cant it be true for such and such , or If he has this why cant he have that also , I say no ,bring ur proof , the matters of aqeedah require an exclusive n khaas daleel and evidence.
We cannot ASSUME!!
Again brother , the topic of this thread was hazir nazir , which some people here dodged and changed it to knowledge of unseen , which can be partially proved, while hazir nazir cannot ever be proved in any way whatsoever. so result , lets prove that the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam did get some knowledge of unseen inhis life so this proves he is still getting knowledge of unseen after he has passed away?? ,but the texts only prove he is alive and geting our salam and sustinance and belssings from his lord. This is where the evidece stops but u made taweel of it to claim that if he can get sustinance he can ALSO get knwoledge of unseen , which u ASSUMED without any exclusive evidence. So u are saying He sala lahu alihi wa sallam CAN , and COULD N MIGHT , i say this is not how deen is , matters of aqeedah do not revolve aroound could and should and might rather we need affirmed and exclusive rexts from quran n sunnah.
One more thing to prove the whole hazir nazir issue wrong. People only prove it by proving the Very Partial Knowledge of Unseen He sala lahu alihi wa sallam was given.
And i have tried to prove that they are two diffrent matters and each would require its own exclusive daleel.
Now InshahAllah i will prove how they cannot be combined and how He sala lahu alihi wa sallam having knwoledge of unseen did not mean he was hazir nazir at that time raher given by Allah.
They events in the Life of the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam where he was gievn knowledge of some matters , did the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam get that Knoweldge by being Present and watching over those matters or by Allah revealing to him?
For example the death of Najashi , Did the Prphet sala lahu alihi wa sallam kow of his death coz he was Present*(hazir) at his death or some how he was watching and witnessing(nazir) at his death?
the answer is easy and simple , he was NOT HAZIR NAZIR AT NAJASHIS DEATH , RATHER ALLAH REVEALED TO HIM , and thsi is the case with all the other occasions , Allah gave him the Knowledge He sala lahu alihi wa salam was not HAZIR NAZIR.
So even proving the Knowledge of unseen matter does not prove Hazir nazir matter.
So even if we were to assume that the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa salam is getting some knoweldge of unseen ( to which there is no proof , apart from our salams which he recieves and darood) It does not prove he is hazir nazir , coz we have PROVED THAT ALLAH GIVES HIM THE KNOWELDGE AND INFORMS HIM HE SALA LAHU ALIHI WA SALLAM IS NOT PRESENT AND WATCHING HIMSELF.
So actually by Proving that The prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam IS getting Knowledge of UNSEEN and pay attenetion "UNSEEN" meaning He is NOT SEEING , meaning HE IS NOT PRESENT , U ARE ACTUALY REFUTING THE CALIM OF HAZIR NAZIR / CLAIM OF PRESENT AND WATCHING . So by proving knowledge of Unseen u are not proving hazir nazir in any way rather refuting it , and to remind u also that geting knwoledge of unseen ( after he sala lahu alihi wa sallam) passed away ahs not been proved , what the texts posted proved was
1-He is Alive sal lahu alihi wa salla, so just like he was alive in this world and didnt knwo the Unseen in this world nor was he hazir nazir in this world notthing suggests now in his life of barzakh he has not only become present and watching ( an attribute of Allah) but also knows the unseen. ( notthing in ur evidence proves he knows the unseen or is hazir nazir)
2- He recieves his sustianace
3- He recieves our salat and salam.
4- Prophets alihim us sallam pray.
This is what the texts prove , but u exgarrrated and said IF the recieve sustinance They CAN recieve Knowledge of unseen as well , which is not supported by any evidence as a matter of creed would require PLUS hazir nazir cannot be proved by it in any sense what so ever.
And if we do prove he is Alive in his grave , it will only prove he will never be HAZIR present in Pakistan ( for example) NOr will he be watching ( NAZIR ) in india ( for example ) not even in madeenah for that matter , Coz his grave sala lahu alihi wa salam would have been turned in a garden from the gardens of Jannah and IF there is anything He is watching and seeing its the blessings of Allah and the beauty of jannah and IF teher is anything he is gearing is Our salams and darood and If there is anyhthing he is recieveing in sustinance its the sustinance of his lord from the gardens of paradise and all these are matters of unseen which we believe , affirm and do not amke it up and do its taweel and imagine it or explain it as How and what.
I hope the points get across.
Please the Most importat is that Knowing "some" of the unseen and being "Present" and " watching" are two different things , as knowing the unseen even in his life was not the result of him being Hazir nazir.
And as far as brevlis go , will u agree that their heads in our time are
sheikh ul islam tahir ul qadri and ilyas qadri the ameer of ahle sunnet.right?
Now if i show u a CONCERT where a person is singing with LOTS of instrumenst and Tahirul qadri is flossing rupees on his head and the words of the qawali are this.
Jo mangna hay yaaro mang lo kyoun kat huzoor bhi hain yahan moujod , muhammad shamae mehfil
" What ever u wana ask of friends Ask now as the Present is also present here , Muhamamd is the candle(light) f this event/gathering"
So here this is shirk on top of shirk , coz he is asking them to seek from the Prophet , ask him , and also claiming that He is THERE. which is not possible coz it cannot be proved from quran n sunnah. Coz if u prove he is present than is the grave empty , and if u say present with his knwoledge and watching than its shirk coz Only Allah can be present somewheer with his knowledge and sight. This is for the Hazr nazr part of this qawali and the next part is even worse coz he asks them to ask of the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam which is shirk.
اياك نعبد واياك نستعين
you Alone we worship and you ALONE we seek help from.
Seeking forgiveness , help , assisatance , problem solving, jannah , is not from the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam , raher its from ALLAH Alone , we canot ask anyone besides him.
except for what is under the asbaab , like i just asked my mom for lunch and my uncle for some money , but when they are not here with me, like if my mom passes away u will never see me at her grave asking her for breakfast , and as far as problem like finaicail or anyother diffciculties go , yes i can ask the creation that are around me and have the ability to help me like i just asked my uncle for some money , but if he was to die as a martyr , and i know he is alive with his lord getting his sustinance and not dead i still wont go to his grave and ask him for a couple of thousand dirhams.
so its not shirk to ask the creaton whats under the asbaab or what they own , rather whats not under the asbaab or those who are in the life of barzakh and those who have passed away and are with their lord.
also we have no proof what so ever that the Prophet listens to us when we call upon him for help or assistance or make dua from him , yes there is evidence that he hears our salam sala lahu alihi wa sallam and darood ( salawat) but that is where we stop, we dont go the brelvi road and say well , IF he can hear our salam he CAN / MIGHT / COULD / SHOULD also hear our duaa so we ask him for help , we ask him to solve our problems , we ask him for all sort of matters.
Any way i hope its clear that the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam is not Hazir nazir , He is not present and watching , NOt All the time definetly as that would be shirk coz its an attribute of ALLAH ALONE , no one from his creation can be everywhere hearing and watching , nor does the prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam become hazir nazir part-time , coz there is no clear and exclusive evidence of that nor even close to that.
barak Allah feek.
Plus most importantly , THIS IS NOT WHAT THE SAHABA WERE UPON , They did not have the beliefs that teh brelvis were upon , so our salvation is only in fllwoing n believeing and doing what the Prphet sala lahu alihi wa sallam and his companions were upon , and i hope i do not have to quote the obvious and famous ahadeeth of that mater , the hadeeth of drawinga nd line and other lines besides it and the hadeeth of 73 sects for example.
lets go back and trace back the aqeedaha nd beliefs and deen that was at their time to be from thsoe who will be the saved sect and stay away from these newly invented creeds n beleifs and even worships and
Allahul Mustaan.
