Is there any Christians who still pray that way?

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Was Jesus (pbuh) a jew or christian?
that's somewhat like asking if allah is muslim. anyway, christ was ethnically jewish. a member of the tribe of judah, the true king of israel. he was also the first christian in the regard that he was the first to teach the message of the gospel.

as far as your other points go, they are rather baseless. a christian is not reduced to your inaccurate descriptions. not to mention that christ did indeed drink wine, break bred, and sing hymns. that said, the practises of christ are more in keeping with what the christian tradition than the muslim tradition. let us not merely look at how christ supposedly prayed but rather at what he taught.

@danah: thanks for the explanation.
 
If I take the OP video's advice, and follow Jesus in prayer, both in His example, and teaching, I am more than glad to do so:

Matthew 6:5-8
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Commentary: I learn from Christ that religious people may pray in such a manner that they desire to be seen by people to be pious or religious. They seek glory and honor from men rather than from God alone. Jesus is rebuking the outward show of religion and exhorting His disciples to genuine, sincere prayer toward God from the heart. The Lord doesn't want me to make an open show of my prayers or use repitious words supposing that God will hear me if I say something over and over again.

How then does the Lord want me to pray? In what manner?
"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen." Matthew 6:9-13

Commentary: Given the previously mentioned verses, the Lord is not telling us to say these words over and over again. He is guiding our understanding of the content of prayers before God. This is a pattern to follow, not a ritual.

Jesus often went away, alone, to pray. Matthew 14:23; Mark 1:35; Mark 6:46; Luke 5:16

Much can be said concerning prayer, but much is illustrated by the following parable of the Lord:

Luke 18
"And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

Again, we see the Lord laying the emphasis upon the heart, and not the outward form. For those not familliar, a publican in Jesus' day was a person (Jew) contracted by the Roman government, usually as a tax collector, and were despised by their fellow Jews. They were seen as traitors and sometimes they embezzeld money from their kinsmen. Imagine the nation of your people being occuppied by a foreign power, and one of yourselves contracts into the employment of that people to collect taxes from you, and even collects more than is due for their own personal gain. You would not be very happy with that person.

Now, consider that your neighbor, or friend, or family member is a devout Muslim, praying 5 times a day, giving to the poor, practicing righteousness, et. He goes to his prayers and prays something similiar to what is told in Jesus' parable. And so also the tax collector. Jesus is saying that the tax collector went away justified before God, not the religious man.

Why? Because the religious man trusted in himself, his deeds and actions, that he is righteous before God. But the publican, feeling and knowing himself a sinner, sought the forgiveness and mercy of God. He had no righteousness of his own to trust in, nor would pretend to have it. This was the case with the pious man, although he did not know it. The pious man was righteous in his own eyes, and perhaps in the eyes of others, but not before the All Holy God. All our righteousness is as filthy rags before His eyes.

I heard one person make the remark concerning a sheep. A shepherd had a beutiful flock of sheep, but one ewe was brilliantly white. Everyone admired his sheep. It was without spot and without blemish. Everyone marveled at how beutifully white and pure the sheep's wool was. One day, snow fell and was of such purity of white as only snow can be, that this beautiful sheep looked dirty against the brightness and purity of the snow.

We sometimes see ourselves as righteous, in our own estimation, against the backdrop of the impious, irreligious, apostates, et. But hold our righteousness up to the backdrop of the holiness of Almighty God, and every one of us would cover our mouth with our hands and repent in dust and ashes. So was the case with the prophet Elijah when He saw the glory of Almighty God and cried, "Woe is me, for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of Hosts." Isaiah 6:5

We Christians may posture our bodies uprightly, lift our eyes to heaven to pray, lower our gaze while we pray, kneel, prostrate ourselves, or beat our chests in repentance before God, but if all this is mere self-righteousness and repitiation, it is for nothing. God said in David, "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Psalm 51:17

This, and what Sol has shared, is why when true Christians hear what is given in the OP, it carries no weight or force. What I heard from the man in the video is a call to outward form, such things as can be seen of men and regarded in their eyes as pious and holy. What I hear from God by His Son is that He looks upon my heart. God does not see as man sees, for man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks upon the heart.

"But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7
 
Personally, I have no problem praying in prostration before God. I've done that for years. But I would agree with Fivesolas that it is much more the state of the heart that is important rather than the form. Form should fit function. If prostrating yourself before God aids you in coming before him humbly and with awe, then do so. If being absolutely silent in his presence sitting up is how you do that, do so.

God looks at the HEART of humanity. If the BODY movements serve the posture of the HEART, then they have significance. Otherwise, it's can be merely fodder for self-righteousness and judging other people.

Just my opinion.
 
Some suggest the origins for the form of prostration in Islam originated with Coptic Christians.



Other Christians also practice prostration in prayer:
In this Catholic ordination service you will that the ordinands have been prostrate in prayer just before this clip begins.


I've got no video of it (we were still chisling pictures out of stone tablets back in my day), but in my worship class in seminary we would pray in a variety of different physical posters, including (but not limited to) praying while fully prostrate with our face to the ground, and I am a protestant.
 
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prayer and supplication aren't two different things. supplication is a form of prayer. thats aid, i haven't grasped your point and i would very much liek it if you could elaborate on this in your next post.
well of course you didnt. i mean its no wonder when all you seem to care about is blocking your ears to any common sense

not exactly. the muslim claim is that christians are not following the example of christ by supposedly not praying in the manner that he did. if we are to look to jesus as our example then shouldn't we also look at what he said? if not, why not? if we look at what he said then we see that he spoke in a manner that no muslim would agree with but that the christian certainly does not have any problems with. if then the muslim argument is dependent on trying to make christians adhere to the teachings of christ in the bible (given that the video consists of nothing but citations from the bible) then we should also follow the words spoken by christ.
see, on cloud nine, that would make all very lovely and perfect sense. but last i checked reality, the point of this thread wasn't about comparing what Muslims think and do with what Christians do (what you are saying). the point of this thread was inquiring if Christians still prayed the way as it says in their bible-being extremely similar to how Islam tells us to pray (what the talker in the video said).

you, being the oh so intelligent and wise individual you are, suddenly turned it around to making it sound like we are the ones with the problem (the talker wasn't talking about us, he was talking about you's)...you know like how you added the hadiths there that actually have practically nothing to do with what we are talking about and how you bought up some baloney argument about the father and son as if to say "well doh, no wonder why you dont accept the way we pray... if only you believed what we believed."

now, personal experience has it, then when people bring up baloney it usually means that the truth hurts them and so they orchestrate this lovely orchestration to move move completely and utterly away from the point...(thus the stawmen i was talking about.)...personal experience :><: anyway.....

nice try at turning the tables-though failed.

once again it is because of the fact that if we are to follow the actions of christ, we must also follow the words of christ.
so do your teachings also tell you to be unfair and act like an idiot in debate?

it is wonderful that you adhere to the commandments of the muslim deity, one ought only to follow that which they believe to be true. that said, you prove my point by taking issue with the other ways in which jesus is known as having prayed. look, the entire muslim argument was that seeing as jesus was recorded as bowing down in the bible, christians are not being faithful to him by not bowing down as well but given that jesus prayed inmany different ways and is recorded to telling his adherers to stand up while praying and you yourself claiming that you can't agree to these other methods of prayer, your position is shown to be one of inconsistency. the muslim position was never one of trying to get christians to follow the manner in which jesus prayed in the bible seeing as the text is clear that he prayed in different ways at different times (and christians are known as praying in all those different ways at different places around the world at different times and as such, they really do follow the example of christ) but rather of trying to get the christian to perform salah while there is no warrant for it at all within the bible.
yes, i also talk jargon when i have been proven wrong too...

i'm sorry, it was never my intention to cause you to doubt but if merely showing how the muslim position is one of inconsistency in this regard, ends up causing you to doubt then you might want to reexamine your own faith.
"the people" = me, ummu sufyaan? talking about being consistent.... :exhausted

Some suggest the origins for the form of prostration in Islam originated with Coptic Christians.
yes, and Hitler loved the Jews.
 
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christians do in fact prostrate so your point is rendered moot. that said, according to the bible it is not necessarily the actions which one does but rather the spirit in which these are performed. god is not interested in outwardly signs of worship but rather with the inwardly. once one has prostrated with their heart (that is, in humbling themselves before god) doing so with their body is rather irrelevant and while it is a nice display of their humility it adds little to the content of their heart. it is the disposition of the heart that matters. yet once again, this point is irrelevant because the bible itself shows that jesus prayed in many ways and even commanded believers to pray standing up. so no, if we are to follow the bible then we would end up with the current practices.

(i'm too tired to do so myself but could someone tie this up with the response of jesus to the woman at the well, about worship being done "in spirit and in truth" instead of outwardly signs of custom?)


as i recall, jw's believe that christ is "a god" but not "the God". i certainly am not denying the bible particularly when jesus himself says:

Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. --- John 5:19-23 NIV

the above is quite clear in the fact that christ demands to be honoured exactly as the father is honoured.

anyway, i must reiterate my point that your argument depends on christians supposedly not taking the bible seriously which is rather ironic seeing as you don't want us to take it seriously because this then leads to jesus being worshiped. i think that if you're going to try to make an argument you should choose one that isn't contradictory to your muslim faith. you cannot maintain this argument without eventually having to be inconsistent and inconsistency is the sign of a failed argument.

As one of Jehovah’s Witnesses myself I should make a comment here.

A king who sends an ambassador to a foreign land would expect this ambassador to receive due honour as the king’s representative. If anyone dishonoured or insulted the ambassador then this would be taken as an insult to the king himself.

This is why Jesus, as God’s representative, said: “Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him” in John 5:23.

But even an ambassador is not truly equal to the king himself. Even Jesus said: “The Father is greater than I am” (John 14:28). It is going beyond the meaning and context of the verse to suggest that Christians should pray to and worship Jesus just as they pray to and worship the Father.


Anyway, in the Bible, sometimes the servants of God would pray while standing or with their face toward the heavens. And sometimes they would bow down and fall upon their faces (2 Chronicles 7:3). Of Daniel it was said: “Three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he had done before.” (Daniel 6:10)

I pray to God myself the same way.
 
I wanted to respond to the last question that was posed to me, but Tues.- Thurs. are my busiest days, so this is the first I was able.

The question to me was, "which denomination." Since the groups aforementioned were Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox, I took the question to mean "which protestant denomination?" The problem with asking this question, in relation to "incorporating it into their regular prayers" is that many protestant denominations do not have "regular prayers" in the same manner that others do. They do pray regularly, but these are not a ritualistic type of organized prayer (no prescribed times, actions, words, etc.). So, when asking the question about what denominations do this, it changes the original question. The question is no longer "why don't Christians pray this way?" (They do.) It becomes, "why don't many protestant denominations require this of their members in a prescribed manner?"

I don't have any video of this, Naidamar, but yes it is an amazing thing to see a full grown man squeezed down between and under the pews/seats and prostrating in prayer. :-) (Sorry, but I'm not in the habit of whipping out my camera in church and taking videos of people while the pray.) On one hand, it is amazing to think that a man could fit in such a tiny space, but on the other hand, when one thinks of the fact that this man is trading any earthly comfort at that moment, setting aside any physical feelings and focusing entirely on God, then how amazing it is that he has fallen down in prostration despite his surroundings. (In these churches it would totally be appropriate for someone to step into the aisle to pray or to go down front where there is room, but these people are so focused on God that their mind is not thinking of moving to a bigger space in that moment.)

There was a woman who said that when standing in the presence of God, she can not help but fall down on her face before him, because he is that Holy.


Regarding the Jews above, I know that none of us dispute that Jews prostrate, but I think it is important to note that not all Jews prostrate and also not all the time.
 
well of course you didnt. i mean its no wonder when all you seem to care about is blocking your ears to any common sense
i'm amazed that asking you to elaborate on your point constitutes blocking my ears. should i not have asked you to clarify your point? is trying to understand your point a faux pas? i must apologize for wanting to understand your argument, clearly i should have ignored it altogether since even after i have asked for clarification you'd rather engage in ad hominem attacks and frankly, that says more about the inability for you to prove your argument than anything else. please, let's keep this debate civil without resorting to such childish tactics. i'm fine with discussing with you but i will not entertain you if the above is the best that you can do.

see, on cloud nine, that would make all very lovely and perfect sense. but last i checked reality, the point of this thread wasn't about comparing what Muslims think and do with what Christians do (what you are saying). the point of this thread was inquiring if Christians still prayed the way as it says in their bible-being extremely similar to how Islam tells us to pray (what the talker in the video said).
no, the point of the video was that christians weren't following the example of the prophets within the bible. yet if we look at what the bible commands we end up with the exact same practises that christians engage in today. on this note, it is quite clear that muslims do not actually want christians to follow the precepts of the bible but merely only that which looks similar to islam. once again this is a matter of inconsistency seeing as the person in the video wanted us to pray bowing down (which we in fact do) because this was in the bible but then he would have to turn around and tell us not to follow the bible when this would lead us to worshiping jesus as god. he brings a series of bible citations that actually work against him when they are examined in context. remember his claims that even angels bow down to god in heaven? well those very same angels worship jesus as god while he sits on the throne of god in the very same book where he gets that citation from. and so if it's those angels that we're supposed to be emulating, then we should also worship jesus as god. of course the person in the video would never admit this (even though his logic would in fact lead to this) and he would have to turn around and tell us not to follow the bible while in teh above video he is telling us to actually follow the bible (which we once again do).

you, being the oh so intelligent and wise individual you are, suddenly turned it around to making it sound like we are the ones with the problem (the talker wasn't talking about us, he was talking about you's)...you know like how you added the hadiths there that actually have practically nothing to do with what we are talking about and how you bought up some baloney argument about the father and son as if to say "well doh, no wonder why you dont accept the way we pray... if only you believed what we believed."
thank you for thinking that i am a wise and intelligent individual. any more praise and you'll make me blush.

once again the inidvidual's argument was predicated on christians not taking the bible seriously (as in the cases of bowing down while praying) and he supposedly wanting us to. can we agree that this is what his argument is based on? if so then when the christian does take their bible seriously, it leads to christ being worshiped as god and as such he would then have to turn around and say that we shouldn't follow our bible when it commands us to pray to and worship the lord jesus christ. so we then realize that this was never a matter of taking the bible seriously but rather of him wanting us to follow his own particular predilections. the father/son talk comes from the fact that if we are to follow the actions of christ, should we then not also follow the words of christ? could i tell you to follow the actions of muhammad but not to follow his words? clearly you'd tell me that you as a muslim have to follow both his actions and his words and the christian does the same with the matter of christ. the fact that the person in the video does not admit to this is rather hypocritical.

so do your teachings also tell you to be unfair and act like an idiot in debate?
oh dear, here we go with the ad hominem attacks again. can we please keep to a civil discussion or are you simply incapable of this? i'm perfectly fine with our talk but your inability to be civil certainly detracts from us having a productive talk. while i suppose that your religion is perfectly fine with the fact that you repeatedly insult a person who has never insulted you, i as a christian cannot do the same ("you shall know them by their fruits"). but anyway, let's focus on what you said. now, i said that if we are to follow the actions of christ then it ought to follow that we should also follow the words of christ, you then respond by calling me unfair and an idiot for saying this. therefore i must ask you, do you merely follow the actions of your prophet or do you follow both his actions and his words? clearly you do the latter and as such if it is correct for you to follow both the actions and words of your prophet, why must the christian be called an idiot for doing the same with the actions and words of christ?

yes, i also talk jargon when i have been proven wrong too...
it's fairly nice that you might believe this but could you please get to proving this for the rest of us? so far your post has been but an excuse to engage in personal attacks and i'm sure i speak for the rest of us when i say that we need not have this here. if you are going to engage in this discussion please leave your hate at the proverbial door, though you are more than welcome to take it with you on your way out.

A king who sends an ambassador to a foreign land would expect this ambassador to receive due honour as the king’s representative. If anyone dishonoured or insulted the ambassador then this would be taken as an insult to the king himself. [...]
i'd have to disagree with this when it comes to god and how he acts in scripture. notice that moses and the prophets were god's representatives as well and none of them even came close to making the same claims as those which christ made for himself. by your logic it would have been fine for them to have been worshiped as christ was worshiped, by that claim it would have been fine for moses to claim to being the bread of life, or the resurrection itself, and generally claim to the exact same honour as that which the father received. but this is not the case, the prophets were quite clear that god does not share his glory with anyone. yet how can christ then claim to have shared the very glory of god before the world began? honouring god's representative (the prophet) is one thing, but worshiping him is another and as such i do not believe that you have made your point.
 
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i'd have to disagree with this when it comes to god and how he acts in scripture. notice that moses and the prophets were god's representatives as well and none of them even came close to making the same claims as those which christ made for himself. by your logic it would have been fine for them to have been worshiped as christ was worshiped, by that claim it would have been fine for moses to claim to being the bread of life, or the resurrection itself, and generally claim to the exact same honour as that which the father received. but this is not the case, the prophets were quite clear that god does not share his glory with anyone. yet how can christ then claim to have shared the very glory of god before the world began? honouring god's representative (the prophet) is one thing, but worshiping him is another and as such i do not believe that you have made your point.

The Bible clearly presents Jesus as the high priest (Hebrews 8:1) for worshipers of God. A priest mediates between God and men but does not receive religious worship directed to himself. And God can be many things but surely God cannot be a priest. That would be absurd.
 
The Bible clearly presents Jesus as the high priest (Hebrews 8:1) for worshipers of God. A priest mediates between God and men but does not receive religious worship directed to himself. And God can be many things but surely God cannot be a priest. That would be absurd.
thanks for the reply hiroshi. the bible also clearly teaches that jesus is the lamb of god who takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29). A lamb is a ruminant mammal, and while a man can be many things, they cannot be a lamb--that would also be absurd. anyway what i mean to say is that these terms speak of a function that the second person of the trinity assumed when he entered creation to be born a man. as a man he could very well function as a high priest to mediate between god and men. i think that against the doctrine of the hypostatic union, all these objections become moot. on the other hand, while it is fairly easy to harmonize statements by christ such as "the father is greater than i"along trinitarian lines, it is far harder to harmonize statements where the christ wishes to be honoured in just the same way that god is honoured etc. along a non-trinitarian perspective.
 
thanks for the reply hiroshi. the bible also clearly teaches that jesus is the lamb of god who takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29). A lamb is a ruminant mammal, and while a man can be many things, they cannot be a lamb--that would also be absurd. anyway what i mean to say is that these terms speak of a function that the second person of the trinity assumed when he entered creation to be born a man. as a man he could very well function as a high priest to mediate between god and men. i think that against the doctrine of the hypostatic union, all these objections become moot. on the other hand, while it is fairly easy to harmonize statements by christ such as "the father is greater than i"along trinitarian lines, it is far harder to harmonize statements where the christ wishes to be honoured in just the same way that god is honoured etc. along a non-trinitarian perspective.

Thank you Sol Invictus.

I see what you are saying here but I don't believe that it fully answers my point. As the sacrificial victim, Jesus is a symbolic lamb. But he is a literal high priest. And Jesus is the mediator between God and men. If Jesus was God then there would need to be a mediator between men and Jesus.

My main point is that Jesus taught his followers to pray to the Father (Matthew 6:9), not to himself. We are to pray to the Father in Jesus' name (John 16:23-24). But we are not instructed to pray to Jesus.
 
Hiroshi,
You are of course correct. Yet, you have to look at the Whole Gospel. When he instructed his follower's to pray the Our Father he had yet to be crucified. His hour had not yet come. After he arose from among the dead thus conquering death, things changed. Thomas one of his disciples didn't believe it until he touched him in the flesh. Then Thomas himself said he was his Lord and God. Now you could use the argue meant that Jesus never called himself that. Yet, his actions, and what he said through out is ministry, pretty much point to his Divine identity. The jews of that day recognized this and they should, as he approached them in a way jews would understand through the Torah and Judiac customs.

However, all of this is besides the point. Since it changes the direction of this thread from how to pray, to one over trinitarian or unitarian belief thus, how one sees God.

Peace be with you
 
Thank you Sol Invictus.

I see what you are saying here but I don't believe that it fully answers my point. As the sacrificial victim, Jesus is a symbolic lamb. But he is a literal high priest. And Jesus is the mediator between God and men. If Jesus was God then there would need to be a mediator between men and Jesus.

My main point is that Jesus taught his followers to pray to the Father (Matthew 6:9), not to himself. We are to pray to the Father in Jesus' name (John 16:23-24). But we are not instructed to pray to Jesus.
greetings hiroshi,

as far as symbols go, i can see your point but i think you have it reversed. christ is the real paschal lamb and whatever else serves only as a symbol for him (Colossians 2:17). seeing as the old covenant practises are a shadow of the reality which is found in christ, he himself is then the real sacrifice and as such it is the lamb that is the symbol. this then leads us to a problem with your understanding (i would think) seeing as the high priest sacrifices an animal (or in various religions, someone else) and not himself. do you see what i'm saying here? the high priest does not sacrifice himself yet christ did and so your own analogy isn't perfect.

now, in the respect that christ is also fully man, he himself can function as a mediator between god and man (although i must wonder how you can bring this up seeing as i believe that jw's believe christ to be divine and men aren't divine, so in your understanding i don't think that this would work at all unless you also posit a hypostatic union). i think that all these objections give way when the matter of the hypostatic union is appreciated. insomuch as this is a muslim board, i should also mention that there is no objection that i can find against the divinity of christ which can't be put to rest when our detractors are made known of the hypostatic union and what christians really mean when they say god became a man or that christ is god etc.

i like your point about jesus and prayer hiroshi but i should ask you who answers prayers? the bible is quite clear that the father answers prayers, and that christ is the one who answers prayers (john 16:23). furthermore, off the top of my head i can think of sections in the epistle of james concerning prayer which are pretty interesting, here is one:

If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does. --- James 1:5-7 NIV

notice that the individual prays to god and yet it is the lord who grants prayers. if you read the opening lines of this epistle you'll see that james identifies christ with the lord and this understanding of "christ the lord" answering prayers is in keeping which jesus' own words that he himself grants these prayers. i then cannot see how christ is not himself god when prayers directed to god are answered by christ.
 
The Bible teaches it's followers to Prostrate to the One True Living GOD Almighty:

"Then David said to the whole assembly, "Praise the LORD your God." So they all praised the LORD , the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Chronicles 29:20)"

"Then once again I fell prostrate before the LORD for forty days and forty nights; I ate no bread and drank no water, because of all the sin you had committed, doing what was evil in the LORD's sight and so provoking him to anger. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 9:18)"

"the oracle of one who hears the words of God, who has knowledge from the Most High, who sees a vision from the Almighty, who falls prostrate, and whose eyes are opened: (From the NIV Bible, Numbers 24:16)"

"When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, "The LORD -he is God! The LORD -he is God!" (From the NIV Bible, 1 Kings 18:39)"

The prostration to GOD Almighty is not wrong. It is the right and perfect way to worship your LORD, because in it, you bring yourself down for GOD Almighty in humility.

This is how all the Prophets prayed

And Abraham fell on his face and God talked with him . genesis 17:3

And Moses and Aaron fell upon their face and glory of the lord appeared to them number 20:6

And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and did worship joshua 5:14

And Jesuswent a little further fell on his and did worship matthew 26:39
 
The Bible teaches it's followers to Prostrate to the One True Living GOD Almighty:

"Then David said to the whole assembly, "Praise the LORD your God." So they all praised the LORD , the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Chronicles 29:20)"

"Then once again I fell prostrate before the LORD for forty days and forty nights; I ate no bread and drank no water, because of all the sin you had committed, doing what was evil in the LORD's sight and so provoking him to anger. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 9:18)"

"the oracle of one who hears the words of God, who has knowledge from the Most High, who sees a vision from the Almighty, who falls prostrate, and whose eyes are opened: (From the NIV Bible, Numbers 24:16)"

"When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, "The LORD -he is God! The LORD -he is God!" (From the NIV Bible, 1 Kings 18:39)"

The prostration to GOD Almighty is not wrong. It is the right and perfect way to worship your LORD, because in it, you bring yourself down for GOD Almighty in humility.

This is how all the Prophets prayed

And Abraham fell on his face and God talked with him . genesis 17:3

And Moses and Aaron fell upon their face and glory of the lord appeared to them number 20:6

And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and did worship joshua 5:14

And Jesuswent a little further fell on his and did worship matthew 26:39
thank you, that is indeed one of the ways in which the bible portrays individuals as worshiping. i am glad that we can agree on this. i am also very happy that muslims are calling me to follow the practises in the bible. on this note, the bible also teaches the following:

"And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him." --- Matthew 28:9

"And when they saw him, they worshipped him [Jesus]: but some doubted." --- Matthew 28:17


is it alright for christians to follow the bible in this regard as well? if not why not and would this reason have to do with trying to make christians follow the qur'an instead of the bible (and as such this had never to do with trying to make christians follow their bible in the first place)?
 
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thank you, that is indeed one of the ways in which the bible portrays individuals as worshiping. i am glad that we can agree on this. i am also very happy that muslims are calling me to follow the practises in the bible. on this note, the bible also teaches the following:

"And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him." --- Matthew 28:9

"And when they saw him, they worshipped him [Jesus]: but some doubted." --- Matthew 28:17

is it alright for christians to follow the bible in this regard as well? if not why not and would this reason have to do with trying to make christians follow the bible instead of the qur'an (and as such this had never to do with trying to make christians follow their bible in the first place)?


No , Because he said that your worship to him in vain

" 'All this I will give you,' he (Satan) said (to Jesus), 'if you will bow down and worship me.' Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 4:9-10)"


They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.' Matthew 15:9

Worshipping something doesnt make it God .The hindus even worship a phallus. does them worshipping it make it God ?lol.

"Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. (From the NIV Bible, John 4:23)"

Again, here we clearly see how Jesus defined the true worship. It is the Worship of GOD Almighty alone! There is no "trinity worshiping". This is all bogus man made lies and "rules (Mark 7:7)" that misinterpret what Jesus really meant.


Even in Islam, Allah Almighty ordered the Angels to bow down to Adam peace be upon him (which by the way also exists in the original Bible as the next sub-section proves):
"And behold, We said to the angels: 'Bow down to Adam:' and they bowed down: Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith. (The Noble Quran, 2:34)"

Does Adam become God ????


Let's look at the following verses:

1 Samuel 24
7 With these words David rebuked his men and did not allow them to attack Saul. And Saul left the cave and went his way.
8 Then David went out of the cave and called out to Saul, "My lord the king!" When Saul looked behind him, David bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.
9 He said to Saul, "Why do you listen when men say, 'David is bent on harming you'?



Notice how David called Saul "my lord". While this is elaborated on much greatly in this article, but I just find it quite ridiculous that trinitarian Christians use "Jesus is lord" as a desperate proof for their lies about Jesus being our so-called "Creator".

Also, when David prostrated his face down to the ground to Saul, was he worshiping Saul as if Saul was GOD Almighty?


More examples:

2 Samuel 14:4
4 When the woman from Tekoa went to the king, she fell with her face to the ground to pay him honor, and she said, "Help me, O king!"


2 Samuel 14:22
22 Joab fell with his face to the ground to pay him honor, and he blessed the king. Joab said, "Today your servant knows that he has found favor in your eyes, my lord the king, because the king has granted his servant's request."
 
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Greetings everyone,

Okay now I think I got the answer of the question I asked in the first post, thanks everyone..

but why such practice is not widely practiced? some of you said that they do this in private, why its not widely practiced in churches?

Some suggest the origins for the form of prostration in Islam originated with Coptic Christians.

Interesting video. I bet that living in a Muslim country helps the Coptic to keep practicing some of their old practices that many other Christians seems to abandon.
Prostration in Islam was not originated from with Coptic Christians but it was way before that....the prostration is the way that humans used to worship Allah through since Allah created the whole universe till this moment, even angels prostrates to Allah.

Similarly Islam didn't come to invent anything new but to remind the humanity of the way that Allah taught his slaves to worship him through as he truly deserve to be worshipped .
 
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thank you, that is indeed one of the ways in which the bible portrays individuals as worshiping. i am glad that we can agree on this. i am also very happy that muslims are calling me to follow the practises in the bible. on this note, the bible also teaches the following:

"And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him." --- Matthew 28:9

"And when they saw him, they worshipped him [Jesus]: but some doubted." --- Matthew 28:17


is it alright for christians to follow the bible in this regard as well? if not why not and would this reason have to do with trying to make christians follow the qur'an instead of the bible (and as such this had never to do with trying to make christians follow their bible in the first place)?

Daniel 2:46 KJV says: “Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.”

And Matthew 18:26 KJV says: “The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him [the king – verse 23], saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.”


Sometimes the word translated as “worship” means merely “obeisance” i.e. a gesture of deep respect but not religious worship. Obeisance was rendered to prophets and kings as the above verses show. Jesus was both.
 
Daniel 2:46 KJV says: “Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.”

And Matthew 18:26 KJV says: “The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him [the king – verse 23], saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.”

Sometimes the word translated as “worship” means merely “obeisance” i.e. a gesture of deep respect but not religious worship. Obeisance was rendered to prophets and kings as the above verses show. Jesus was both.
thanks for the reply hiroshi. i have to say that i agree that worship sometimes means to make obeisance, on that note we have no problem, and this is why i pointed to my revelation quote and the use of latreuo when speaking of god and the lamb. fact is that letreuo is used only in reference to god throughout the new testament and unlike proskuneó (the term in the above matthew citation), it carries the full meaning of worship. this is why the revelation citation is so telling given that christ receives this very worship as he sits on the throne of god.


"Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve (latreusousin) him. They will see his face (to prosopon autou), and his name will be on their foreheads. There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever." Revelation 22:1-5
 
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thanks for the reply hiroshi. i have to say that i agree that worship sometimes means to make obeisance, on that note we have no problem, and this is why i pointed to my revelation quote and the use of latreuo when speaking of god and the lamb. fact is that letreuo is used only in reference to god throughout the new testament and unlike proskuneó (the term in the above matthew citation), it carries the full meaning of worship. this is why the revelation citation is so telling given that christ receives this very worship as he sits on the throne of god.

If I accept your argument that "latreuo" is only used with reference to God throughout the NT, there still seems to be some ambiguity in Revelation 22:3 as to whether the pronoun “him” refers to the Lamb or to God.
 

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