Sorry I haven’t responded for a while - rebuilt my computer last year and only just got round to re-logging on to all my forums (of which the IB is one of my faves!)
Yeah it's such a tough call, music has been part of our culture for so many years, I think the oldest musical instrument found so far was over 9000 years old! a flute in china, for this reason I will try to really address the issue because music is so ingrained in world culture and something I care so passionately about.
I understand that in Islam music is considered something of a distraction from observing the faith, and I think this is clear from the quote `There will be people of my Ummah who will seek to make lawful; fornication, wine-drinking and the use of ma`aazif ( musical instruments ).`
Although I think to lump music in with wine drinking and fornication is a little simplistic - clearly Bukhari had observed that wine drinking and fornication had occurred in locales to music and has tarred it with the same brush - it is a stretch to see any direct relationship between them though - traditionally many armies travel with a musician to march into battle, does that make war, fornication and music bedfellows - obviously not.
I would like to make a proposal – to anyone who claims and believes that music (and by music I mean musical instruments) is good n has a good and excellent effect on the soul. Give me one example (name and life) of a very famous music-dedicated person who’s character is one of the best in history, and who’s morals and manners are an example to live by. And I will give you one example (name and life) of a very famous Qur’an dedicated person who’s character is one of the best in history, and who’s morals and manners are an example to live by.
Pixie in answer to your question about the dubious moral character of famous musicians I would answer that musicians are only human and there is good and bad amongst all - as with all walks of life, and there are many famous examples of musicians taking a moral lead, indeed in western culture it is often our musicians, film makers and writers that we look to as uninhibited messengers regarding current issues, some good examples would be -
- Neil Young, he recently despaired at the war on terror and produced the album 'Living With War' in 2006 which made him many enemies in America with such song titles as 'let's impeach the president' - but he felt so passionately that the war was wrong he risked everything to back the anti-war view - can you name a Koran dedicated person who risked everything they have, including their place in history and the future of their children to speak out about the mistakes of their leaders?
- Midge Ure & Bob Geldof, they organised Live Aid and Live 8 to raise funds for the starving in Africa and to combat global poverty raising hundreds of millions of pounds - can you name a Koran dedicated person who has raised so much money to help those less fortunate? here in the UK we get Islamic TV and I watch it and I am yet to see an advert for a charity that aims to help non-Muslims, it would appear from my perspective that the Koran dedicated individuals you mention seek to help only other Koran dedicated individuals - could you please also supply an example of a Koran dedicated individual who works selflessly to raise money and help those outside of Islam because I know they must be out there but I haven’t heard of any but I would like to have the example for future debates.
- Bob Dylan, who has written many anti-war songs and had a great impact on western youth, indeed his 1963 album The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan is still revered for its tracks like 'blowin in the wind' that aided the civil rights movement and the push for nuclear disarmament - often if you seek to highlight an injustice it can be hard to be heard but if your vehicle is music not only can you circumvent those who might seek to censure your views but also the beauty of the music and the rhythm of the lyrics acts like sugar helping the medicine to go down - the genre of 'social commentary' exemplified by unblemished artists like Bob Dylan or Billy Bragg have contributed a great deal to an enlightened society - our politicians know that there are many artists out there who will speak out against injustice or corruption and this has helped in some small way to create a fairer society.
And music festivals traditionally partner with charities to raise funds from the ticket receipts and to raise awareness - the recent Glastonbury festival partnered with Wateraid. Charity gigs are a staple - need money for your charity? Musicians will play for free and the money goes to those who need it most.
Don’t get me wrong, music is such a powerful tool that it can be abused - I also despair at the moral vacuity of much of our chart music, talent less hacks like Madonna or lady gaga I imagine are your bugbear for their loose moral values, perhaps the famous musicians like jimi Hendrix or Jim Morrison who have died through drink and drugs also set a bad example. I would say that this category of musician is viewed almost like astronauts - they travel to the furthest reaches at great personal danger and send back messages so we needn’t put ourselves personally in harms way, also their well-publicised demise serves as a warning to our youth, not as an invitation.
Also as possible as it is to make a positive contribution it is also possible to make a negative contribution, such genres as 'gangsta rap' have glorified gang violence and there are also bands issuing negative politics - although I believe the shame is not the music, but that their is a ready audience of disadvantaged souls who identify with a divisive message, however this message could just as easily be conveyed politically or through a religion, and at least in music there is a counter-argument supplied by a diametrically opposed artist occupying the same space.
If I am satisfied and convinced with your person more, and their life and character, then I promise you, I will listen to and study music. But if you are satisfied with my person more, their life and character, then you promise me, you will study and listen to the Qur’aan.
Because if music is more better than the Qur'aan and has such a good and healthy effect on the soul, then I, as an intelligent human being, should not deprive my soul of it. But if the Qur’aan is more better than the music, and has such a good and healthy effect on the soul, then you, as an intelligent human being, should not deprive your soul of it. But the condition is we must be sincere. Does this sound reasonable enough?
Peace,
That really doesn’t sound reasonable at all Pixie, I certainly am not trying to convince you to listen music, that is your personal choice, but as a musician I wouldn’t be here on this forum unless I studied Islam - I don't see the two things as in competition with each other, although they can be a wonderful addition to a full life, why deprive yourself of one or the other? They are not mutually exclusive. from my personal point of view music is as integral to my life as nourishing my soul spiritually - playing instruments and making songs for as long as a can remember, when I jam with other musicians words need not be spoken, we communicate through our instruments and synchronise naturally complimenting each other - I imagine in a similar way to a prayer meeting, a life without music to me is like a life with Islam would be to you and I don’t see them as assets to be swapped or traded – they must remain above that.
:hmm:
You seem to objectively determine tooo much. If someone said 'you have a good brain' will u also objectively determine what a 'brain' is and what characteristics in people determine how much of a 'brain' they have' ? I hope not, because it makes conversation very tiring and difficult....
And just to clarify, by morals I meant universal morals, that we all agree upon. Honesty, kindness.. etc. Anyways, my intentions are not to get into a debate.... so, Peace.
Interesting that you should mention brains - many of our greatest scientists were also musicians such as Galileo, and it has been proved that musicians have bigger and more sensitive brains than people who do not play instruments, the auditory cortex, which is the part of the brain concerned with hearing, contains 130 per cent more "grey matter" in professional musicians than in non-musicians.
And I don't wish to appear obtuse but one of the primary purposes of a forum is for reasoned debate – I hope you have not been exasperated by this thread too much – I certainly wouldn’t want you to feel as if your views were under attack, it is just that there have been numerous threads on the issue of music and most of them are usually shut down before the debate has run its course and this is an aspect of Islam that fascinates me.
I very much hope you respond to my counter-argument.
Respect, Peace & Love
Yarba
PS – and back to Peaceandloves’ original question; is it ok to use sounds that occur naturally in the world in music?
to all
