Is there gender equality in Islam?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

be careful,

several sikh guru's also had multiple wives!

Abu Abdullah

Please provide authentic evidence and not concocted up by hindu haters on the net!

 

[Umar001]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Instead of going through all of this, can some answer simple question?

I am sorry to say this but the above is indicative of a person who is insincere, if you would really and truly want answers then surely you would travel lenghts to find it, and if you found that difficult you would ask people to be more specific and point places from those threads, not just merely disregard them.

Then again that is a wrong doing to the self and not to others.

If a man is allowed to have many wives and if women are equal to men, are women allowed to have many husbands as well?

I think first you should explain to us the understanding you have of equality. Do you think that men and women are equal so men should wear skirts? Do you think there should not be a seperate toilet, but rather just one toilet, do you think women should be allowed to go top less in the street? Many such questions are answered with a stern 'No' by those same people who profess the totally identicality of women, not equality but identicality. As though women and men are identical.

Maybe your terminology should be as I said before explained before commencing further.

Men not be able to have babies only proves that women are superior to men.

So now your telling us women are superior to men, but that seems contradictory!

Whilst if we take the stance that we as Muslims hold, i.e. they are equal in the sight of God, but in other matters of life one might naturally more adapt whilst in another the other might be more adapt, then we come to what you have said, i.e. women are superior in the area of having babies, whilst men might be superior in another field.

Have you heard of something called maternity leave?

Are you suggesting that women could have and support 4 husbands, whislt she was on maternity leave, so let me picture this, we according to this could have a work force of women, who would support men who would not have to work, and would support men even on maternity leave, which would be most of the time since they would be having 4 husbands. Which in practicality would mean that the people who cannot have kids and the older generation who are unable to get pregnant would do all the work, whilst the majority of women who can have kids would be on maternity leave alot of the time with husbands who would not work.

You seriously believe that would work?

It isn't matter of expecting her to earn money. It's a matter of if is earning money. I am pretty sure there Muslim female doctors, making lots of money. So why wouldn't she have the same rights as men?

Making the same amount of money does not change someone's gender. Can a man who makes the same amount of money as the average woman then say he should have the right to have kids?

I am not sure if this is true. I think it's the other way around

Again your mistaken. Men can be aroused much quicker than women, men also reach their climax naturally quicker than women, so if a woman had more than one husband it would mean she would need to be able to keep them happy, which would be a hard task since males as I said are aroused quicker so it is unlikely she could respond to all of them at the same time, unlike females where their arousal is most of the time brought about by the husband's actions.

Malaikah,

We are not talking about her to provide, instead her ability to provide and once she is capable of providing, which I am pretty sure a lot of female Muslim doctors do, why doesn't she have the same rights as men? Why does she still have to wear burka and why does she still get beaten up by Talibans http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZiYT1ywtXxA?

Are you saying when a Muslim is makes a lot of money working as a doctor for example, she doesn't support family at all?

You seem to feel Burka is a punishment or a social badge that a women wears because she is of a lower class, and because she finally makes money she should be freed from such a thing, rather the covering of both men and women are not dependent on social status or income!

I cannot view that video incorect link the site is telling me but it is interesting you brought the taliban into the equasion.


Furthermore, I encourage you to let us touch on the fundamentals of Islaam, let me ask you for a change, do you have a religion or faith you follow, what is your belief system?

Do you have any problems with the attributes of God in Islaam?

Eesa

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

in general men are more lustful than women, in general, so no her argument is correct.

Maybe so. - Does not mean the need of 4 wives is acceptable. It's seen as a upperand by most muslim men.

 

[aamirsaab]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Maybe so. - Does not mean the need of 4 wives is acceptable. It's seen as a upperand by most muslim men.

The ruling for the 4 wives is that it is the maximum limit - a muslim isn't obligated to marry 4.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Again your mistaken. Men can be aroused much quicker than women, men also reach their climax naturally quicker than women, so if a woman had more than one husband it would mean she would need to be able to keep them happy, which would be a hard task since males as I said are aroused quicker so it is unlikely she could respond to all of them at the same time, unlike females where their arousal is most of the time brought about by the husband's actions.

I like the justification, No wonder it lures so many men to Islam.

 

[cali dude]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

in general men are more lustful than women, in general, so no her argument is correct.

But since it's one-on-one at a time, ability to satisfy multiple partner is not really a good argument, is it? I don't think men with multiple wives have sex with all every night, do you?

 

[aamirsaab]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

But since it's one-on-one at a time, ability to satisfy multiple partner is not really a good argument, is it? I don't think men with multiple wives have sex with all every night, do you?

You're going around in circles.

 

[Dawud_uk]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

You're going around in circles.

dont think the dude is married otherwise this would make sense to him a lot more.

Abu Abdullah

 

[Woodrow]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

I wish you could talk to either of my daughters. I think you would see that the views of a Muslimah are quite different than what it seems you have been lead to believe.

Today, it has been proven that women are equally capable as men.

Then how come, Islam doesn't provide with equality? For example, a man is allowed to beat his wife. A man can have many wives even though it's proven that women can equally capable of earning as much as men, in some cases even more than men. Then how come a woman isn't allowed to have many husbands if she can afford to do so?

Equality does not mean same in the sense of identical. It would be very unwise for women and men to have the same treatment for all situations in the name of equality.

That would mean unisexual treatment. No seperate male/female restrooms in public places. No time off work for maternity leave. Pregnancy would be viewed as a disorder that needs to be cured. Just a few thoughts that immediatly come to mind.


Now about the way women are treated in marriage, that would best be answered by a Muslimah that was in a Non-Muslim marriage prior to her reverting to Islam.

My youngest daughter had just that experience. I will not go into details but after her divorce she reverted to Islam and a few years later she married a very fine Muslim husband. She will immediatly tell anybody that she has found more freedom then she ever dreamed possible in her Muslim marriage. Just a few examples her husband can not touch a single penny of any money that is hers. But, he still has to provide for all of her finacial needs even if she has more money than he has. She has no obligation to pay for any household expenses. Yes, she does work and she does go to school. She has now been been a student for nearly 20 years and pursues as much education in whatever fields she desires as long as they are halal. She is in the medical field, most of it has been in pediatrics, she has just now decided to change her specialty to oncology. Her current tuition expenses are over $50,000 dollars. If she dosen't want to pay them herself her husband is obligated to pay them. She is also still working and earns a very good income. She does not use any of her income for household expenses. What she uses it for is very much halal and she is very pleased with where it goes. But her husband supports her in all of her living needs. He pays for her cars, gasoline etc. She has no necessary expenses except for what she desires. Fortunatly her desires are very admirable and as I said her income all goes for a very halal purpose. It is very doubtful she would find that much freedom in a "normal" marriage.

Now with the hijab. No man has the right to force a woman to wear the hijab. My daughter wears it by choice and if you where to try to take it off of her, I would suspect you would have a broken arm. Her husband can not make her remove it when she goes to public meetings although on occasion he has told her it might be best to not wear it in some places. She will not take it off for any man. She says she will be killed as a Muslim, before she would take it off to hide the fact she is Muslim.

When she was married her first time and was not Muslim her husband did make her dress as he felt best to promote his business image. She also shared responsability for his bills. She was expected to help pay for their living expenses so that they could present the image of their social status. Then the physical and emotional abuse she suffered at his hands was beyond belief. She was a true prisoner to his whims and at his mercy for all things. It took a very serious incident for her to break free and be able to get a divorce to bring an end to the torment her good western marriage put her through.

 

[chris4336]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Cali dude - No one of us really knows WHY it is permitted for man to have 4 wives, but it is by Allah. I think each one of us has to find our own wisdom in it. I personally don't really agree with these explanations about arousal and sexual fufillment either. This Ayat was given, I believe, after the Battle of Badr, during which many Muslim men were killed. So there were lots of Muslim women, possibly with young children, but without husbands. How is a recently widowed woman with children supposed to support her family in those times? It would have been extremely difficult if not impossible for her. So it is my belief that Allah permitted a man having 4 wives as a way of helping to support widows. Remeber the Prophet (peace be upon him) had only one wife for 25 years, and then his marriages after that had either political or social reasons (ie: to help widows).

That being said, a Muslim woman always has the right to put in her marriage contract that her husband cannot take another wife. Then if he takes another wife, they will be divorced.

Also, I was a lot like you...very critical of the treatment of women in Islam. I urge you to listen to Brother Eesa, and think about your belief system and the fundamentals of Islam. Also please be very very careful NOT to confuse culture and Islam, which is something I was guilty of. Look into the life of the Prophet to see the real way Islam is supposed to be practiced.

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

:salamext:


Is there actually any proof in any other religious scripture apart from the Quran which limits people to have 4 wives?

 

[cali dude]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

chris, that's what I heard that Mohammad had multiple wives as many men were killed in a battle. But for some reason, polygamy among men continued for no good reason at all.

It shouldn't be both ways. Either men and women should be allowed to practice polygamy or no one, although no one being able to practice polygamy makes better sense. Why should a woman have to consent to her husband not having more than one wives? Why shouldn't it be automatic that a man can't have multiple wives just like a woman?

 

[chris4336]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Well what if there was another battle? I think if it happened once it might happen again.

Polygamy is an exception (with very strict requirements) NOT the rule in Islam. Like I said the Prophet had ONE wife for 25 years, and only after her death did he take other wives, and even then only for very specific reasons (not for his own "desires"). Throughout the Quran men and women are refered to as "pairs" and "partners." It is permitted, not encouraged.

I agree with you 100% that polygamy sometimes serves no good reason at all. I personally think taking a second wife, even after the objections of your first wife is not a great idea, but that is a whole other discussion that we have had on these boards before. Allah will judge us all on the day of judgement based on what is in our hearts, so its not really for me to say.
And again, a wife can always put in her marriage contract that her husband cannot take a second wife.

Maybe it would help if you looked at all the "inequalilties" in Islam that favor women? So men can have more than one wife, but women don't have to work ever. The man must provide everything for her and her children. She can request any amount of money be paid to her at the marriage, and that money is hers alone. Lets say she comes from a filthy rich family - her husband still have to provide everything for the household, even if she has millions of dollars in the bank. This is not "fair."

Or with the prayers - A man no matter what his job is still must attend Friday prayers in the masjid. Women have a choice, they can attend prayers in the mosque or pray somewhere else (at home or at work).

Or with parents - Islam teaches that Paradise is at the feet of your mother (doesn't mention the father). There are also a ton of hadiths on the rewards a woman gets during pregnancy, that man doesn't even have the chance to get.

I guess take from this what you will. My point was that some areas of Islam seem to favor men, while others seem to favor women. The point is that Allah made these rules and he knows the differences between men and women, and he has made rules that he knows will serve is best. Maybe they don't seem fair to me because I live in the US, and have my own money, and don't need a husband to provide for me. But a widow with 6 children somewhere else might think otherwise.

 

[Um_ahmad]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Islam is the most equal relegion i know of.

 

[Snowflake]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

=cali dude;655198]Men not be able to have babies only proves that women are superior to men.

Women are superior? Do you think they made the baby without the help of a man? Fields cannot yield crops unless farmers sow the seeds.

Have you heard of something called maternity leave?

For a start, not everyone is entitled to maternity leave. Secondly it's not available in every country. And thirdly a woman will multiple husbands will probably be pregnant most of the time. So there's her ability to work and support her four husbands gone.

to simply put it. If a women were to marry a few men, and if she is to be pregnant. Would you know who the father is? (actually thinking about, nowadays u can find the lineage throught DNA tests).

DNA testing is not available in all the parts of the world. Even where it is, not everyone can afford it.

I like the justification, No wonder it lures so many men to Islam.

I don't think so. It'd be easier to remain non muslim and have as many girl-friends/extra marital affairs as one wants. How many muslims/reverts do you know with four wives?



The permissability for polygamy is crystal clear in the Quran. If you read the verse below you'll notice that Allah commands men to marry only one if he fears he cannot deal with them justly. Therefore Islam actually restricts polygamy. There was no restriction on number of wives before islam. People of different beliefs still practice polygamy without restrictions today. Where the law forbids it, they just end up having extra marital affairs. Yet islam doesn't even allow polygamy for lustful desires. Only as a means to support women in need of protection/security.



And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course. (Quran 4:3)



Islam is a practical religion which provides solutions to all kinds social problems. It is not here to fulfil personal dreams and desires of those who submit to it. After the death of a man a woman is left to bring up her children alone with often no one to care for her or her children. What is the solution?

If she goes to work her children are left to fend for themselves. There's often very little if any discipline amongst such households as the mothers main concern is providing for her family. I've seen with my own eyes when mothers are out at work they're kids are out on the streets creating hell in the community. There's mothers out there doing 2-3 jobs just to keep a roof over her family's heads. Women have been known to turn to prostitution to supplement their income. What kind of life is that?

For a non muslim woman, having a boyfriend or remarrying isn't the solution either. By law he is not responsible for children of other men and often mistreats them. But in islam a man who marries a widow/divorcee is financially responsible for her and her children. Not only financially but in all matters of their welfare. Imagine how many social ills can be avoided if that happens.


It's a fact (reported in the Guardian) that the children of mothers who return to work full time in the years before they start school have slower emotional development and score less well in reading and maths tests, according to a study published by the Institute for Social and Economic Research. (Extracted from the full report.)[/


Islam is unique and wonderful in that it obliterates a woman from the burden and stresses of coping alone by allowing a man to take her into his care through the rules of polygamy.


Like I said before, a woman with 4 husbands would be pregnant most of her life, thus being unable to support them and their children. After childbirth her libido will be non existant if not low, thus being unable to cope with the sexual needs of four husbands.



Each year in March, Gallup measures the degree to which Americans are concerned about various U.S. domestic policy issues. While levels of concern can change from year to year, one finding remains constant: women tend to express higher degrees of worry than men do.



Therefore women won't even be able to cope on a psychological basis. Islam safeguards the interests of each person as an individual and as a part of society. No other religion has achieved the same and never will be able to do so. The wisdom behind Islamic teachings is simply indisputable.




Finally, I'm curious to know, as you seem very keen for women having the right to have four husbands, would you allow your wife to do the same?

peace.

 

[cali dude]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Well Chris and all,

As you can see polygamy works only for certain places, for certain people and in certain situation. God's word would work universally.

Finally, I'm curious to know, as you seem very keen for women having the right to have four husbands, would you allow your wife to do the same?

peace.

Apparently you missed the whole point, I think polygamy is sick.

 

[Umar001]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Well Chris and all,

As you can see polygamy works only for certain places, for certain people and in certain situation. God's word would work universally.

WOuld be cool if you could provide an input to my reply I gave earlier if you have the time.

You state God's word would work universally, as Muslims we could not agree more.

 

[Woodrow]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Well Chris and all,

As you can see polygamy works only for certain places, for certain people and in certain situation. God's word would work universally.

The secret there is the word work. Sometimes for something to work, it can not be applied the same way in all places and at all times. This is the wisdom behind the conditions for polygamy. It can only work when those conditions are fulfilled.

If those conditions are not met it is forbidden. we are not permitted to decide when and where it can work, we are told that very clearly. This is not a matter and picking and choosing simply because we want it. We are permitted it only if we can fulfill the criteria, in fact there are situations under which it is obligatory even if we do not want it.

Allah's(swt) is applied universaly. What is said in one place applies in another. But, for something to be applied fairly universaly it has to be specificaly stated how it is applied. We are to feed the hungry also, does that mean we are to give an equal amount of food to each person in each place. Would it not be more sensible to give to each in accordance with their needs? That would mean a different amount for differen people in different times and places. A 50 pound 10 year old school girl in london is not going to have the same food requiremnts as a 200 pound 25 year old man living as a hunter in Alaska. Should they both be given an equal amount of food when they are hungry.

 

[cali dude]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

WOuld be cool if you could provide an input to my reply I gave earlier if you have the time.

You state God's word would work universally, as Muslims we could not agree more.

I didn't read your entirely. Whatever I read, I don't think it's worth responding as my point should very clear.

You only agree with me that God's word would work universally. But the difference is that you believe in forcing what you believe to be God's word universally and what I am saying is that God's word would naturally work universally. Nobody would ever need to force God's word anywhere. God's word would naturally make sense universally. Since polygamy doesn't universally make sense, it can't be considered God's word.

 

[cali dude]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

The secret there is the word work. Sometimes for something to work, it can not be applied the same way in all places and at all times. This is the wisdom behind the conditions for polygamy. It can only work when those conditions are fulfilled.

If those conditions are not met it is forbidden. we are not permitted to decide when and where it can work, we are told that very clearly. This is not a matter and picking and choosing simply because we want it. We are permitted it only if we can fulfill the criteria, in fact there are situations under which it is obligatory even if we do not want it.

Woodrow Sahib, just to let you know that you are probably one of the few I respect here.

It shouldn't that polygamy is allowed unless certain conditions are not met...

It should that monogamy is the only way unless there is a special need...

Do you see what I saying? Polygamy should have no priority at all. Monogamy should have the priority unless there is no other way.

Although I believe in living in God's will. I accept what God (not humans) does. So I wouldn't practice polygamy regardless what happens.