Islam a political target in Norway

[Amadeus85]

I'd love to know how you plan to support that claim.

Ussually life supports my claims.

 

[Amadeus85]

Wow!!! Just Wow!!! I always thought you were a biggot but didn't realise you were actually proud of it too..

You shouldnt be suprised of someone who dares to literally protect his culture and civilization which he belongs to. Especially that muslims from Algeria to Indonesia protect their Islamic civilization not only by speaking but also by harsh actions.

 

[Hamayun]

You got ordinary Muslims who may go to the mosque every friday, don't eat pork and wear a hijab if they are women, I don't mind those, they can belong to the society and if that's multiculturalism, I like it.

That is different to what you said earlier.

I have nothing more to say anymore.

 

[north_malaysian]

Most Europeans aren't that tolerant, which is a shame really.

The average Malaysians are tolerant ... just two days ago, a Chinese neighbour of us died (she lived in the same street of my house).. they occupied the street with a tent with offerings including roasted pigs and caused a parking problem in the Muslim majority neighbourhood (about 60% of people in my neighbourhood are Muslims) for 3 days as their tent was blocking the street... but no Muslims ever complain because we understand that they should be allowed to practice their rituals.. we even pay respect to the dead by visiting the deceased and offering condolences to her family.

I'm all for giving rights to minorities, however everything should be done so the minorities remain minorities and don't attain to much political power.

I am all for the minorities... and if someone from the minorities can rule this country in a better way.. I'll support him/her.

 

[north_malaysian]

What political rights would have non-muslims in future islamized Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia.

Hello there... the chief minister of Penang Island, Mr. Lim Guan Eng is a Buddhist... I am his supporter.

 

[wth1257]

Ussually life supports my claims.

I accecpt your apology

 

[Pomak]

Most Europeans aren't that tolerant, which is a shame really.

I agree.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

That is different to what you said earlier.

I have nothing more to say anymore.

Beofre I was mainly talking about how no new Muslims should be allowed to immigrate.
Only then did I say which Muslims I think can stay and which one should go, voluntarily of course.

 

[memories]

Most Europeans aren't that tolerant, which is a shame really.
I'm all for giving rights to minorities, however everything should be done so the minorities remain minorities and don't attain to much political power.

This is true, its my beleif that when you go into another country you should leave all of your ''stuff'' in the contry you left, '' in rome do like the romans''

 

[Muezzin]

This is true, its my beleif that when you go into another country you should leave all of your ''stuff'' in the contry you left, '' in rome do like the romans''

And what if the Romans start copying you?

Because that's how culture works, folks.

Also, memories, are you aware you're saying 'this is true' to a post which purports to limit the political power of minorites simply because they're minorities?

 

[memories]

And what if the Romans start copying you?

Because that's how culture works, folks.

Also, memories, are you aware you're saying 'this is true' to a post which purports to limit the political power of minorites simply because they're minorities?

YES! how would you feel if I entered your house told your whole family that im in charge now and that we have to walk on our hands/wear pink at all times/and sleep on the floor? (this is a rather comical representation to help you better understand)

Minorities must not have to much political power. Yes this is true! And if you look closely you will find this to be so In pretty much any culture. If I go to some place in the middle east and start doing as I like, ( not respecting religious rules etc) Theirl be consequences. BECAUSE I AM A MINORITY!! there! simple isnt it?

 

[Muezzin]

YES! how would you feel if I entered your house told your whole family that im in charge now and that we have to walk on our hands/wear pink at all times/and sleep on the floor? (this is a rather comical representation to help you better understand)

I think you know that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about minorities acquiring political power through legitimate means. Which is fine. That's progress.

Minorities must not have to much political power. Yes this is true!

No, it's not. Otherwise there would not be a black American president right now.

And if you look closely you will find this to be so In pretty much any culture. If I go to some place in the middle east and start doing as I like, ( not respecting religious rules etc) Theirl be consequences. BECAUSE I AM A MINORITY!! there! simple isnt it?

Not really. I'm talking about minorities being able to start their own political parties, being able to vote etc, in short, not being treated as second-class citizens, simply because of their smaller population. Of course people have to obey the law. That doesn't mean they're not allowed to legitimately change the law as the political system allows.

How can you claim to uphold democracy if you also deliberately deny minorities power simply because they're minorites? It doesn't add up.

 

[memories]

No, it's not. Otherwise there would not be a black American president right now

This is a very simplistic response, the black community is wholly compatible with the United States of america's values, way of tought etc, why the Muslim community in most cases is not!

Its some for of counter culture, Incompatible in one word. Im talking about these incompatible minoritys. they dont accept our way of life, and would change it if they could!

They MUST not gain to much political power. Its like giving the keys to your house to someone that wants to burn it down.

 

[Muezzin]

This is a very simplistic response, the black community is wholly compatible with the United States of america's values, way of tought etc, why the Muslim community in most cases is not!

They're still a minority.

Its some for of counter culture, Incompatible in one word. Im talking about these incompatible minoritys. they dont accept our way of life, and would change it if they could!

Your exact words were:

Minorities must not have to much political power.

No qualifiers. No 'Incompatible minorities only'.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

And you're still wrong.

In the UK, there are Muslim Mayors, Councillors, MPs; in the States there are Muslim Senators.

What to do with these chaps and ladies?

They MUST not gain to much political power. Its like giving the keys to your house to someone that wants to burn it down.

That's a bit presumptuous, given you've never met or spoken to any of these Muslims with political power in Western states. And what to do if one of these is elected to lead?

 

[memories]

They're still a minority.


Your exact words were:



No qualifiers. No 'Incompatible minorities only'.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

And you're still wrong.

In the UK, there are Muslim Mayors, Councillors, MPs; in the States there are Muslim Senators.

What to do with these chaps and ladies?


That's a bit presumptuous, given you've never met or spoken to any of these Muslims with political power in Western states. And what to do if one of these is elected to lead?

the muslim senators embrace the western view, im talking here about extremists.The ones who do not embrace the culture that is hosting them.Its not a question of race,but a question of ideas. We are all part of the human race science has recently proven that the whole concept of race is something of the past. Thats why we should say minorities in ideas not in race.

 

[Pomak]

the muslim senators embrace the western view, im talking here about extremists.The ones who do not embrace the culture that is hosting them.Its not a question of race,but a question of ideas. We are all part of the human race science has recently proven that the whole concept of race is something of the past. Thats why we should say minorities in ideas not in race.

You do know that science actually invented the idea of race, to begin with right?

And btw "the culture that is hosting them" does not apply to the children of immigrants (who are born in their land of choice)

Well, unless your saying that Canadians should embrace the Indigenous culture of North America or go home. If we used that idea, a lot of white folks will need to leave.

Also i have a feeling that you wouldn't be able to separate the "extremists"(as you call them) from the rest.

This is a very simplistic response, the black community is wholly compatible with the United States of america's values, way of tought etc, why the Muslim community in most cases is not!

Except that some of the black community is also the Muslim community.

 

[Foxhole]

As far as Sharia goes, non-muslims have the same political rights as muslims in an islamic state. Whether or not those countries will allow for that is upto the government officials.

Can the head of state be a non-Muslim? If not, no political equality. And there's the broader question of other social rights, in which there is also an advantage to Muslims in a Muslim state. Example:

Imagine a sharia state with 80% Muslims, 10% Christians and 10% Jews. My Muslim friend (male) can marry any woman in the population without any requirement for conversion, since a Muslim man can marry any woman of the book. My Christian or Jewish male friend must find his wife from a 20% subset of the population, since a non-Muslim male cannot marry a Muslim woman. This is not a trivial matter and can not be explained away with a wave of the hand. It's simply unfair.

I think the one thing Muslims should begin to internalize in this modern world is the fact that in western governance it is the equality of all citizens that is paramount. Equality underpins democracy (you and I both get one vote and they both count the same). Equality underpins secular governance (your metaphysical views and my metaphysical views are equally irrelevant when it comes to the law). And obviously, equality underpins the belief that there must be one set of laws that applies to all citizens equally.

In a sharia state there is explicit inequality between people of different faiths as far as political and social rights. This is my fundemantal problem with a sharia state, or a state based on any religion for that matter.

 

[aamirsaab]

Can the head of state be a non-Muslim? If not, no political equality.

The amount of knowledge he/she would need to have in order to actually win any votes to run for head of state would in all intents and purposes make him/her muslim. The way it usually works is people vote on the guy/gal they think has the most knowledge i.e. would make a good leader. E.g If you have a scholar and a student as the candidates, who are you going to chose as your leader? If you have a braincell, you'll vote for the scholar. Unless it is a popularity contest or facebook application, you will vote for the scholar. So it really doesn't matter if they're muslim or non...it's a matter of knowledge. Typically, it will be a muslim head of state in a muslim country. Just as it would be a non-muslim in a non-muslim state, That;s not to say noone else cannot apply tho...

...
.... My Christian or Jewish male friend must find his wife from a 20% subset of the population, since a non-Muslim male cannot marry a Muslim woman. This is not a trivial matter and can not be explained away with a wave of the hand. It's simply unfair.

That would occur in any state where there is a muslim population....I don't see how this is any more problematic in a sharia state than it is in a non-sharia state that has a muslim population. The only ''problem'' identified in your example is the % of non-muslims i.e. your pool is smaller...which is your problem not Sharia's.

In a sharia state there is explicit inequality between people of different faiths as far as political and social rights. This is my fundemantal problem with a sharia state, or a state based on any religion for that matter.

Political and social rights are the same for muslim and non on a general bases in a true sharia state. I really don't see what inequality you could level at non-muslims in a sharia state. Certainly not at the non-muslims given the following:

* non-muslims pay LESS TAXES in a sharia state

* non-muslims are exempt from the harsh criminal punishments (death penalty, capital punishment etc)

* non-muslims are priority cases in sharia state (there are countless hadith/sunnah indicating the importance of treating dhimmis/non-muslims, one going along the lines of whosoever treats a dhimmi badly, the Prophet [saw] himself will stand in defence of that dhimmi on the day of judgement...in short that means treat your dhimmis well unless you want a one on one with the Prophet [saw])

If anything, it's actually easier for non-muslims to live in a sharia state than it is for a muslim (on the above points anywho).

p.s; we're actually off topic so continue this train of thought this thread if you want to.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

And btw "the culture that is hosting them" does not apply to the children of immigrants (who are born in their land of choice)

It does if the children feel more connected to the culture of their parents than the culture of their country.

 

[memories]

You do know that science actually invented the idea of race, to begin with right?

And btw "the culture that is hosting them" does not apply to the children of immigrants (who are born in their land of choice)

Well, unless your saying that Canadians should embrace the Indigenous culture of North America or go home. If we used that idea, a lot of white folks will need to leave.

Also i have a feeling that you wouldn't be able to separate the "extremists"(as you call them) from the rest.



Except that some of the black community is also the Muslim community.

1: your talking about old outdated science,
2: ''some blacks are muslim'' so??