" Islam an Arab religion” Do you agree or disagree?

[Grace Seeker]

Peace Gene,

Just my view. I believe in the past you stated you have read at least some of the Qur'an in English. Now if you were unaware that it was originally written in Arabic would you have suspected it had an Arabic origin?

I don't know enough about Arabic life, culture, history, tradition, or other ways apart from that which I learned in association with Islam to answer that question.

Off topic, but I have a sense that many people make the same mistake with Christianity. For instance, I am constantly amazed at how much people on LI think that Paul was the "creator" or "inventor" of Christianity because (they suggest) he introduce all sorts of novel ideas to it. The reality is that if one knows the background, Paul's letters are simply filled with allusions that are based in Jewish tradition and culture. Even though he was writing to a Greek world, he remained a Jew at his core, but unless you know that Jewish core most people miss it and assume that Paul was an innovator. I would probably make the same mistake with regard to seeing/missing any of the Arabic origins in the Qur'an.

 

[Getoffmyback]

None arab muslim who never learned arabic will never read qoran. Even if they did learn arabic they won't understand the depth of it as arabs do.

 

[Caller الداعي]

sorry i dont agree with that. thats like saying a non english wont understand english literature like the english even if he learns it !!!!!!

 

[Hugo]

None arab muslim who never learned arabic will never read qoran. Even if they did learn arabic they won't understand the depth of it as arabs do.

There are so many double negatives here that it is hardly possible to work out what you might be saying but it seems to be that Islam is really only for Arabs who can read 14the century Arabic

 

[Getoffmyback]

As the azhar scholars banned the translation of qoran because that the words of allah came in arabic. Also because of the arabic multi meaning to a single word. Then its not possible for non arabs to recieve the concept easily as arabs. A non arab will need to spend his life learning arabic or he will need a constant arab teacher's help in order to reach an arab level of understanding and how many non arabs done that? A small percentage of course . English is the easiest language on earth.

 

[Foulana]

None arab muslim who never learned arabic will never read qoran. Even if they did learn arabic they won't understand the depth of it as arabs do.

many arabs dont fully understand arabic, most arabs speak colloquial which is not the same as qur'anic arabic and so themselves dont have a great understanding of the language of the Qur'an.

I understand what you are saying learning a language is different to being brought up on it but I disagree.

Islam is not an arab religion but it is a religion based upon arabic, learning the language is fundamental if you really want to know you deen in depth.

but not being able to speak arabic doesnt prevent you from knowing and believing in Allah swt or worshipping him. but the preservation of the arabic languge has been very important in the preservation of Islam where other religions such as christianity have been open to corruption and change.

 

[Woodrow]

None arab muslim who never learned arabic will never read qoran. Even if they did learn arabic they won't understand the depth of it as arabs do.

That is true for some. But, remember the Qur'an was written to be easy for us to understand. A person who was not born speaking Arabic, need not become fluent in conversational Arabic to Understand the Glorious Qur'an. With dedication and a good teacher, it is not a difficult task to learn the Qur'anic Arabic.

 

[Supreme]

That is true for some. But, remember the Qur'an was written to be easy for us to understand. A person who was not born speaking Arabic, need not become fluent in conversational Arabic to Understand the Glorious Qur'an. With dedication and a good teacher, it is not a difficult task to learn the Qur'anic Arabic.

What about those of use just naturally crap at other languages? Even eith private tutoring for two years, I barely managed to scrape a C at GCSE German, and that's closely related to English and in the same alphabet. I'd find it frustrating to keep the patience to learn another language, even at conversational level.

 

[Woodrow]

As the azhar scholars banned the translation of qoran because that the words of allah came in arabic. Also because of the arabic multi meaning to a single word. Then its not possible for non arabs to recieve the concept easily as arabs. A non arab will need to spend his life learning arabic or he will need a constant arab teacher's help in order to reach an arab level of understanding and how many non arabs done that? A small percentage of course . English is the easiest language on earth.

English is a paradoxical language. Possibly the most difficult language there is for clear understanding. Even very simple sentences such as "Red, read the red lead book sufficiently to take the lead and become the leader and led all who read about red lead." It will be difficult to find even 2 people who will understand that the same way.

Add to that you have major differences between British, American, Australian and Canadian English. Then you have the very many colloquial/local dialects. It is even difficult for a Texan to understand what a person from New York is saying. Add to that the various forms:standard, slang, Traditional, formal, legal, political, business, scientific, medical etc each with it's own vocabulary and grammatical rules. Then to complicate matters it is a constantly changing language and the meaning of words change almost as fast as they are written. I do not speak the same English as many of the younger members here. Sometimes I wonder if it is even possible for any 2 English speaking people to actually understand each other.

 

[Woodrow]

What about those of use just naturally crap at other languages? Even eith private tutoring for two years, I barely managed to scrape a C at GCSE German, and that's closely related to English and in the same alphabet. I'd find it frustrating to keep the patience to learn another language, even at conversational level.

If you speak English, you are already speaking at least 10 or 15 languages. Although none of them with full awareness. English is a hodge podge Language made up of a multitude of languages.

Yes, it can be difficult to learn another language, but not impossible if a person can submerse themselves in it. Admittedly, I have difficulty with Urdu, even though some of my grandchildren have it as their first language.

I also had difficulty with German, although I can read it reasonably well I can not understand it when it is spoken and I butcher the pronunciations when I attempt to speak it.

However, for some reason most of us reverts find it easy to learn Qur'anic Arabic. Perhaps because we have both desire and incentive to learn it. My spoken Arabic is horrible, probably because it is in the Darija dialect and the spoken Darija is only understood by those who have lived in the Maghreb

 

[Getoffmyback]

Its not about english or arabic literature. You will be forgiven if you make a small mistake when translating a sentence. The teacher will probably give you an F for it and no one will judge you. Its impossible to translate qoran.
Non arab muslims will never have the privilege of reading qoran by their own mother tongue language.

 

[Woodrow]

Its not about english or arabic literature. You will be forgiven if you make a small mistake when translating a sentence. The teacher will probably give you an F for it and no one will judge you. Its impossible to translate qoran.
Non arab muslims will never have the privilege of reading qoran by their own mother tongue language.

Perhaps it would be better to just say those who do not speak Arabic as their native language. There are non Arabs who speak Arabic as their native language and there are Arabs who do not speak Arabic. You do have non Arab Muslims who speak Arabic as their Native Language.

I do know a few non Muslim Arabs who speak Arabic as their native language, but do not understand Qur'anic Arabic very well.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Its impossible to translate qoran.

Given that there are many translations already in existence, that seems to be a misstatement. Of course, I recognize that Islam does not consider any of these translations to actually be the Qur'an, but then that is another issue. It is possible to translate the Quranic Arabic into other languages, and still communicate the essential truths revealed in the Qur'an to non-Arabic speakers.

Non arab muslims will never have the privilege of reading qoran by their own mother tongue language.

DUH!!

In case you are a non-native speaker of English, that's American slang for "Duh! That's obvious!" If they were native speakers then it would be their mother tongue. But that it isn't their mother tongue doesn't mean that one cannot learn it well enough to understand it in Arabic.

But, I think you miss another point in your series of objections to non-Arabic speakers ability to truly understand the message of the Qur'an. Any communication is about more than just the words themselves, but the context from which they were written. There is no person alive today who is able to recapture the context in which the Qur'an was written. So, just as you seem to imply that non-Arabic speakers cannot really grasp the whole message of the Qur'an because they don't think in Arabic, so I would suggest to you that non-7th century Arabs cannot do so either simply because they don't think out of that context. Indeed it wouldn't surprise me that if one were to find a time machine and transport Muhammad into the present that he might wonder about more than just a few of the ways that the Qur'an has come to be interpreted and applied today. Ways that he never understood them, but because of the changing context from which people read and understand the unchanged written word, the meaning of the message has changed for today's hearer of the Qur'an vs. those who heard it originally.

I'm not even saying that this is in any way a corruption, for all texts need to speak to their present day audience as much as they did their original audience. But, for the text to do that, the message must by the very nature of communicating to a different group change ever so slightly in the process.



Lastly, Getoffmyback, you are the only person I know that writes in English of the sacred book of Islam and calls it the qoran. Are you sure your the most qualified person there is to talk about issues of translation between languages?

 

[Getoffmyback]

grace seeker . i'm french educated we used to say qoran qouran etc....you r really sensitive towards my qualifications. why do u care? did u see me presenting a solution for any issues?
and by the way i'm with the translation of qoran not against. and i hope the people in charge will come up with an idea to do it.
u wanna show off u linguistic heroism over an unofficial site. well be sure ur not going to be credited for it. just be a normal internet user as i am. or apply for a job that will satisfy ur heroism.duhhhh

 

[KittenLover]

Islam came for all of mankind, the final messenger was sent for everyone, not just for a specific set of people like Moses and Jesus, they were both sent to the Jews only.

What about those of use just naturally crap at other languages? Even eith private tutoring for two years, I barely managed to scrape a C at GCSE German, and that's closely related to English and in the same alphabet. I'd find it frustrating to keep the patience to learn another language, even at conversational level.

I didn't read the whole thread but it seemed people were talking about languages,

remember Jesus revealed his message in his own language and what you people read is only a translation.

We have the same in Islam translations but many people learn the arabic since it's easy to learn with dedication. Just like you would learn the language that Jesus spoke to read the original scriptures if they still exist.

 

[Getoffmyback]

why i cant post my own post?
how do u multi quote?

 

[Grace Seeker]

Just like you would learn the language that Jesus spoke to read the original scriptures if they still exist.

Jesus was probably tri-lingual, speaking not just Aramaic, but also Greek and Latin. As to the language the original scriptures were written in, I dispute your implied reality. The original language of the Christian scriptures depends on which particular book you are referring to. Most of the Tanakah was written in Hebrew. Some of it was written in a Babylonian dialect of Aramaic. And the majority (if not the entirety) of the New Testament was written in Greek (there is a possibility that Matthew was written in Hebrew originally, but the oldest copies of it that we have are all in Greek). As for what you consider to be the "original" scriptures of Jesus' Injil, Jesus is not reported to have ever written scripture himself, so there would be nothing at all to read.