Islam and Democracy: Compatible or Incompatible?

Is Islam compatible with democracy?


  • Total voters
    0
Status
Not open for further replies.
root said:
I wonder what your specific response is to the notion that "Western Democracy" is not a democracy with religous power in that religous leaders are forbidden from standing for government.

Hi root. I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. Western democracy is secular, and they feel that religion and politics should be isolated.

But Islam is a comprehensive and complete system with guidance in every aspect of our lives. Hence, Islam has given us a political system as well, which is designed to further direct society in righteousness and closeness to God.

:w:
 
Here is the article:

Shoora and Democracy: A Conceptual Analysis

Dr. Ja`far Sheikh Idris
[size=-1]http://islaam.com//Article.aspx?id=545[/size]


What is shoora?

Shoora comes from an Arabic word shara whose original meaning, according to classical Arabic dictionaries was to extract honey from hives.The word then acquired secondary meanings all of which are related to that original one. One of these secondary meanings is consultation and deliberation. The way consultation and deliberation bring forth ideas and opinions from peoples' minds must have been seen to be analogous to the extracting of honey from hives. It might also have been thought that good ideas and opinions were as sweet and precious as honey.



According to this purely linguistic meaning, shoora is no more than a procedure of making decisions. It can thus be defined as the procedure of making decisions by consultation and deliberation among those who have an interest in the matter on which a decision is to be taken, or others who can help them to reach such a decision.



The important matter on which shoora is made can be either a matter which concerns an individual, or a matter which concerns a group of individuals, or a matter that is of interest to the whole public. Let us call the first individual shoora, the second group shoora, and the third public shoora.



Thus formally understood, shoora has nothing to do with the kind of matter to be decided upon, or the basis on which those consulted make their decisions, or the decision reached, because it is a mere procedure, a tool you might say, that can be used by any group of people - a gang of robbers, a military junta, an American Senate or a council of Muslim representatives.



There is thus nothing in the concept which makes it intrinsically Islamic. And as a matter of fact shoora in one form or the other was practiced even before Islam. An Arab Bedouin is reported to have said, "Never do I suffer a misfortune that is not suffered by my people." When asked how come, he said, "Because I never do anything until I consult them, astasheerahum.. “ It is also said that Arab noblemen used to be greatly distressed if a matter was decided without their shoora. Non Arabs also practiced it. The Queen of Sheba was, according to the Qur'an, in the habit of never making a decision without consulting her chieftains..



What is democracy?



What is democracy? The usual definition is rule, kratos, by the people, demos. On the face of it, then, democracy has nothing to do with shoora. But once we ask: "How do the people rule?" we begin to see the connection.





'Ruling' implies ruling over someone or some group, and if all the people rule, over whom is it that they rule? (Barry, 208)​



The answer on which almost all democracy theorists are agreed is that what is meant by rule here is that they make basic decisions on matters of public policy. How do they make those decisions? Ideally by discussion and deliberation in face-to-face meetings of the people, as was the case in Athens.





Similarities



Democracy, then, has also to do with decisions taken after deliberation. But this is what an Arab would have described as shoora. It might be thought that there still seem to be some differences between shoora and democracy, because the latter seems to be confined to political matters. But the concept of democracy can easily be extended to other aspects of life, because a people who choose to give the power of decision-making on political matters to the whole population, should not hesitate to give similar power to individuals who form a smaller organization, if the matter is of interest to each one of them. The concept of democracy can be and is, therefore, extended to include such groups as political parties, charitable organizations and trade unions. Thus broadly understood, democracy is almost identical with shoora. There is thus nothing in the primary or extended meaning of democracy which makes it intrinsically Western or secular. If shoora can take a secular form, so can democracy take an Islamic form.



Islam and secular democracy



[size=+1]Basic differences[/size]

What is it that characterizes shoora when it takes an Islamic form, what is it that characterizes democracy when it takes a secular form, and what are the differences between these forms, and the similarities, if any? What would each of them take, if put in the framework of the other? I cannot go into all the details of this here. Let me concentrate therefore on some of the vital issues which separate Islam and secularism as world outlooks, and therefore give democracy and shoora those special forms when placed within their frameworks.



Let us understand by secularism the belief that religion should not have anything to do with public policy, and should at most be tolerated only as a private matter. The first point to realize here is that there is no logical connection between secularism and democracy. Secularism is as compatible with despotism and tyranny as it is compatible with democracy. A people who believe in secularism can therefore without any violation of it choose to be ruled tyrannically.



Suppose they choose to have a democratic system. Here they have two choices:



<B>
a.</B> They can choose to make the people absolutely supreme, in the sense that they or their representatives are absolutely free to decide with majority vote on any issue, or pass or repeal any laws. This form of democracy is the antithesis of Islam because it puts what it calls the people in the place of God; in Islam only God has this absolute power of legislation. Anyone who claims such a right is claiming to be God, and any one who gives him that right is thereby accepting him as God. But then the same thing would happen if such a secular community accepted the principle of shoora, because they would not then exclude any matter from its domain, and there is nothing in the concept of shoora which makes that a violation of it.



b. Alternatively those secular people can choose a form of democracy in which the right of the people to legislate is limited by what is believed by society to be a higher law to which human law is subordinate and should not therefore violate. Whether such a democracy is compatible with Islam or not depends on the nature and scope of the limits, and on what is believed to be a higher law.


In liberal democracy not even the majority of the whole population has the right to deprive a minority, even if it be one individual, of what is believed to be their inalienable human rights. Belief in such rights has nothing to do with secularism, which is perfectly compatible, as we saw, with a democracy without limits. There is a basic difference between Islam and this form of democracy, and there are minor differences, but there are also similarities.



The basic difference is that in Islam it is God's law as expressed in the Qur'an and the Sunna that is the supreme law within the limits of which people have the right to legislate. No one can be a Muslim who makes, or freely accepts, or believes that anyone has the right to make or accept, legislation that is contrary to that Divine law. Examples of such violations include the legalization of alcoholic drinks, gambling, homosexuality, usury or interest, and even adoption.



When some Muslims object to democracy and describe it as un-Islamic, it is these kinds of legislation that they have in mind. A shoora without restriction or a liberal shoora would, however, be as un-Islamic as a liberal or an unconstrained democracy. The problem is with secularism or liberalism, not with democracy, and will not therefore disappear by adoption of shoora instead of democracy.



Another basic difference, which is a corollary of this, is that unlike liberal democracy, Islamic shoora is not a political system, because most of the principles and values according to which society is to be organized, and by which it should abide, are stated in that higher law. The proper description of a political system that is based on those principles is that it is Islamic and not shooraic, because shoora is only one component of it.



This characteristic of Islam made society immune to absolute tyranny and dictatorship. There have been Muslim rulers who were despotic, but they were so only in that they were not chosen by the true representatives of the Muslim people, or that they were not strict in abiding by some of the Islamic teachings; but none of those who called themselves Muslim rulers dared, or perhaps even wanted, to abolish the Islamic law.



This emphasis on the law stood in the way of absolute tyranny in another way. It gave the ulama so much legislative power that it was their word, and not that of the ruler that was final on many matters. An interesting section of one of al Bukhari's chapters reads: If the ruler makes a decision that is contrary to that of people of knowledge, his decision is to be rejected.



Walter Lippman considers it a weakness of democracy that it laid more emphasis on the origin of government rather than on what it should do. He says (Rossiter, 1982, p. 21) :





The democratic fallacy has been its preoccupation with the origin of government rather than the processes and results. The democrat has always assumed that if political power could be derived in the right way, it would be beneficent. His whole attention has been on the source of power, since he is hypnotized by the belief that the great thing is to express the will of the people, first because expression is the highest interest of man, and second because the will is instinctively good. But no amount of regulation at the source of a river will completely control its behavior, and while democrats have been absorbed in trying to find a good mechanism of originating social power, that is to say, a good mechanism of voting and representation, they neglected almost every other interest of men.​



[size=+1]Similarities[/size] So much for the basic differences, we now come to the similarities, and some of the less basic or minor differences.



Islam and liberalism share certain values, basically those which the concepts of democracy and shoora entail.



In liberal democracy there are rights which individuals have as individuals, even if they are in a minority. These rights are said to be inalienable and cannot, therefore, theoretically speaking, be violated, even by the overwhelming majority of the population. Such violation, even if embodied in a constitution, makes the government undemocratic, even tyrannical. One might think that the idea of inalienable rights is not compatible with the basic concept of democracy as rule of the people, because if the people choose, by majority vote, to deny some section of the population some of what the liberals call their human rights, then that is the rule of the people, and it would thus be undemocratic to not to let it pass. But on close inspection one can see that this is not so. It is not so because the concept of democracy entails that of equality. It is because the people are equal in having the right to express their opinion as to how they should be ruled that democracy is the rule of the people. But surely individuals have rights that are more basic than participating in decision making whether directly or indirectly. To participate they must be alive, they must be able to express themselves, and so on. There is thus no contradiction between the concept of democracy or shoora and the idea of inalienable rights that sets limits on majority rule, because the former is more basic to democracy than the latter.



If I am right in saying that these values are entailed by democracy and shoora, it follows that absolute democracy, democracy that is not constrained by those values, is a contradiction in terms.



Islamic shoora agrees with liberal democracy that among the important issues to be decided by the people is that of choosing their rulers. This was understood from the fact that the Prophet chose not to appoint his successor, but left it to the Muslims to do so, and this was what they did in a general meeting in his town al-Madina. When it was reported to Umar, the second Caliph, that someone said that if Umar died he would give allegiance to so and so as Caliph, he got very angry and said that he would warn the Muslims "against those who want to forcibly deny them (their right)". He later made a public speech in which he said,





If a person give allegiance to a man, as ruler, without a consultative approval of the Muslims, ala ghayri mashoorati-n min al muslimeen, then neither he nor the man to whom he gave allegiance should be followed (Bukhari, al Muharibeen)​



As far as my knowledge goes the manner in which this public right is to be exercised, is not specified in any authoritative statements or practice. The first four, The exemplary Caliphs were chosen in different ways.



[size=+1]Is the Islamic state democratic?[/size]

Can a country that abides by the principle of shoora constrained by Islamic values be described as democratic? Yes, if democracy is broadly defined in terms of decision-making by the people. No, if it is arbitrarily defined in a way that identifies it with the contemporary Western brands of it. Such definitions commit what Holden (1988, p. 4) calls the definitional fallacy.





In essence it is the fallacy of believing that the meaning of 'democracy' is to be found simply by examining the systems usually called democracies. A common example of this is the idea that if you want to know what democracy is, you simply have a look at the political systems of Britain and America. There are some deep-rooted misconceptions involved here. Apart from anything else, though, such an idea involves the absurdity of being unable to ask whether Britain and America are democracies: if 'democracy' means , say, 'like the British political system' we cannot ask if Britain is a democracy.​



An example of a definition which commits this fallacy is that of Fukuyama (1992, p. 43)





In judging which countries are democratic, we will use a strictly formal definition of democracy. A country is democratic if it grants its people the right to choose their own government through periodic secret-ballot, multi-party elections on the basis of universal and equal adult suffrage.​



There was no universal suffrage in Athens where women, slaves, and aliens were excluded; no universal suffrage in America until 1920, in Britain until 1918 or 1928, and in Switzerland until 1971. Fukuyama's definition would exclude all these, and would apply only to contemporary Western democracies or ones that are copies of them.



I called such a definition arbitrary because it selected, without any rational criterion, only those features which are common to the Western democracies, but not those on which they differ, and made them necessary conditions for a country being democratic. Otherwise instead of government, it could have said 'their own president', but that would have excluded Britain and some other European democracies. It could also have been specific on the periods of time between elections, but that would again have excluded some Western democracies.



Why should the right to form political parties be a condition for democracy? Suppose that a country gave its people, as individuals, and not as party members, the right to freely choose their government, why should that exclude it from being a democracy?



Why should government elections be periodic? Can't a country be democratic and set no limit to the term of its ruler so long as he was doing his job in a satisfactory manner, but gave the elected body that chose him the power to remove him if and whenever they thought that he was no longer fit for the job?



Having said all this, I must add that I do not set any great store on the epithet 'democratic'. What is important to me is the extent to which a country is Islamic, the extent to which it abides by Islamic principles, of which decision making by the people is only one component and, though important, is not the most important.
:w:
 
But Islam is a comprehensive and complete system with guidance in every aspect of our lives. Hence, Islam has given us a political system as well, which is designed to further direct society in righteousness and closeness to God.

True democracy is not built on a Religuos, faith or spiritual guidelines. Democracy is made nervous when we talk such issues as "Complete system with guidence in every aspect of our lives". Guidence becomes a grey area, with control being the key word I think.
 
root, whats your definition of democracy.

"Complete system with guidance in every aspect of our lives" includes the principles of democracy I don't see a problem.
 
Chuck said:
root, whats your definition of democracy.

"Complete system with guidance in every aspect of our lives" includes the principles of democracy I don't see a problem.

A democracy cannot be a theocracy. By its very nature a theocracy excludes a segment of society or relegates that segment to subservient status because its faith differs from that declared by the state.

A democracy and theocracy are incompatible, just as fascism and democracy, monarchy and democracy, dictatorship and democracy are also incompatible. A theocracy may use some facets of democracy, but the primary requirement of equal inclusion for all without prejudice can never be attained under a state religious rule.
 
I should think that sunni Islam would be compatable with democracy, although Shiia islam may be less so.

root, A theocracy and Democracy are not entirely imcompatable. They can be combined (as it is easily assumable those who choose theocracy are making the democratic choice of them and their laws as a whole). If you did not believe in, say, islamic law, why would you choose to live in a country of islamic theocracy? You wouldn't. They can elect the religious leaders they choose to moderate the sharia, thus integrating democracy.

This is the same idea as a single party democracy. It is still democracy, even if all the people choose one idea over any other that might surface.
 
:sl:

The Islamic system is certainly not a theocracy. I believe this article by Dr. Jamal Badawi will help:

The Nature of the Islamic Political System

Theocracy vis-à-vis Islam


The political system of Islam is not theocratic because the term “theocracy” implies two basic elements: The first element is the assumption or acceptance of the principle that God alone is the Sovereign of ultimate power. The second part of the definition of “theocracy” is the assumption that there’s a certain priestly class or clergy who claim to be representatives of God on earth, who alone have the right to interpret the will of God, and who in some certain cases are the ones who are supposed to enforce the divine law.


According to the first part of its definition, theocracy is not contradictory with Islam, whose structure is based on the acceptance of the supremacy of God in that His laws are ultimate and His wisdom is infinite. However, the second part of the definition has nothing to do with Islam. In Islam there’s no church as an institution as such, there’s no clergy. Islam doesn’t accept the notion that a particular group of people can claim for themselves to be representatives of God on earth. The entire human race is regarded, in a sense, as representatives of God on earth.


In Islam, legitimacy of any power or institution is derived mainly from people’s acceptance of this legitimacy. In other words, one can’t gain legitimacy as a ruler unless people agree to this, not to have it imposed on them; the people are entirely free to choose their rulers. Islam does not accept a system which involves any kind of dictatorship, nor does it accept a system of monarchy where the power is inherited within the same family. Indeed, one wouldn’t only point out to systems that call themselves monarchies because there are many countries that call themselves republics, but indeed power seems to be circulated only within the elite.


Is the Political System of Islam Democratic?

Whenever a comparison is made between Islam and anything else, we need to remember that Islam is not a man-made idea. Islam is a God-ordained way of life, and as such it reflects the infinite divine wisdom, which is absolutely infallible. With this kind of understanding, Islam, as reflected in the word of God and the sayings of the Prophet—which he also received by way of revelation—present the ultimate truth. It’s not something that anyone can update or change or supersede in any way; it is free from error or else, of course, there wouldn’t be any belief in God. On the other hand, other systems, whether they are democracy, socialism, or otherwise, are man-made ideas or ideologies.


The human being is fallible, his wisdom and knowledge are imperfect. Of course, in any of these man-made ideas there may be certain good ideas. When saying that Islam is similar to democracy, this seems to carry an implication that democracy is “the way,” “the ideal,” and then we go back to Islam to find out whether it meets these ideals or measures up to these standards or not. And that is almost like saying: Let’s take God’s ordained way of life and judge it in accordance with the criteria established by humans. Therefore, democracy and the political system in Islam, although they may have some similarities, are not really synonymous.


Similarities and Differences


Some of the fundamental principles in democracy are similar to Islam: first, the idea or notion of freedom of the people to choose the rulers they want. Another idea that is similar is that of participation in the decision-making process in some form or the other. The third similarity between democracy and Islam is the notion of the removal of some governments which fail to meet the expectations of the people.


The first basic difference between the political system endorsed by Islam and democracy is that in democracy, the ultimate authority lies with the people. In Islam, however, the ultimate authority doesn’t belong to people; it belongs to God alone. That means that both the ruler and the ruled in Islam are subject to a higher criterion for decision-making, that is, divine guidance. If the people—the rulers and the ruled—are truly believers, the final say in the interpretation or understanding of these divine laws would have to be within those laws.


Some might feel or think that this distinction between Islam and democracy is academic or theoretical, but it is not. It has some serious implications. For example: When the majority, in a Western democracy, decide that the drinking age should be lowered to 13 or 14, no matter how harmful this may be, it becomes a law, because that’s what the majority of people want. Under Islamic law, the Qur’an itself prohibits drinking, so it shall be prohibited regardless of what the people want.


Another example regards the rights of minorities. Suppose in a given society the majority of people, who belong to a particular race or class or group, decided to deprive minorities of their rights. Even if the constitution prohibited this, the constitution itself can be changed. So, if a decision is taken to oppress a certain minority or minorities, it could be done under democracy, theoretically at least. Yet, under an Islamic system it cannot happen because the rights of the minorities are rights which are enshrined in the Qur’an and the Prophetic tradition, and as such no human being can supersede that.


The Qur’an and Prophetic tradition are the ultimate constitution, which is different from the secular constitution because it cannot be changed. In the secular system the constitution can be changed whenever needed because it’s human-made and there may be better words than the ones that were put in the first place. Whereas, in the case of divine constitution, one cannot say “I know more than God.” In addition, it’s quite clear that democracy seems to go with systems which are basically secular, where the legislation of churches or temples or any religious body has nothing to do with the actual political system. However, the system of government in Islam doesn’t make any distinction between the moral and temporal and the whole notion of secularism is alien to Muslim thinking.


What Is the Political System of Islam?


Some have tried to give the title of “theo-democracy” to the political system in Islam. “Theo-democracy,” in this sense, would reflect an element of theocracy concerning the supremacy of God and His laws. At the same time, it would also reflect the democratic notion that there is no exclusive class and people who can monopolize the interpretation of that system.


A better term, however, has been suggested by Abul-A`la Al-Mawdudi: “popular trusteeship.” This suggests that the entire human race is appointed on this earth to be like trustees or vicegerents of God on earth, and it [trusteeship] is not to be claimed by one individual, group, or class. Rather, it is a collective type or responsibility to fulfill this duty, which means that the rules apply to rulers and ruled alike.


Does the Islamic Model Exist Today?


In order to have what can be called an Islamic political system, it is not enough to simply implement some aspects of Islam, such as the criminal law, while neglecting some more fundamental issues, such as the freedom of the people to choose the rulers. In addition, if penalties are to be applied, they have to be applied impartially


Similarly, it would not be necessarily representative of the true approach of Islam, to restart immediately implementing aspects of criminal law without allowing transitory periods of sufficient time to reform society and move it to the ideals of Islam. The philosophy of criminal law in Islam is not just punishment; it is the idea of creating reform in a society by removing the causes of crime before punishment can be applied. Therefore, before applying the laws, rulers should look into the wisdom of the legislation and the prerequisites to implementing those penalties.


Unfortunately, the complete and perfect model of an Islamic political system does not exist today. But this does not mean that it is a utopian system that exists only in theory. It existed in a complete and perfect form during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), and during the reign of the first four Rightly Guided Caliphs. There were ups and downs, but there were some periods when one could actually say that the model was either perfect or as close to perfection as could be expected. In later centuries, however, there have been lots of ups and downs and many deviations. It is very difficult to point out any single model and claim that it represents the true picture of an Islamic political system. Indeed, there are many systems that are quite apart from Islamic teachings and violate the very basic principles on which a truly Islamic political system can be based, although they may claim that they are Islamic.

for more info: http://www.islamonline.net/English/introducingislam/politics/Politics/article05.shtml#1

:w:
 
The Islamic system is certainly not a theocracy

Non the less it is based on a religous faith.

They can elect the religious leaders they choose to moderate the sharia, thus integrating democracy.

A democracy does not allow for Religous or Military post holders to stand for elective representation.
 
Last edited:
root said:
Non the less it is based on a religous faith.
But that is not the definition of a theocracy.

A democracy does not allow for Religous or Military post holders to stand for elective representation.
Says who? That's not a principle of democracy. That is just a natural outcome of democracy in a secular state.

:w:
 
SpaceFalcon2001 said:
I should think that sunni Islam would be compatable with democracy, although Shiia islam may be less so.
Greetings Space,

Please bear in mind that there is no such thing as "two Islams". The Shia sect has nothing to do with real Islam 'cause of 4 simplified reasons (and I do not wish to engage in to further discussions):

1. Aspersion on the Qur'an by claimin' that the Sahaabah ommited verses
2. Aspersion on the Sunnah ('cause they were nararated from the Sahaabah and accordin' to them, the Sahaabah are kaffirs) of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)
3. They regard Ahl al-Sunnah as Kaffirs and whoever regards Muslims as kaafir, is a kaafir himself.
4. Lastly, grossly exaggerations about Ali (May Allah be pleased with him)

When one mentions the Islamic Khilafa (Caliphate), one should bear in mind that the system is composed of the Qur'an and the Sunnah. Those are the two standard sources of the Shariah Law.

Peace
 
kadafi said:
Greetings Space,

Please bear in mind that there is no such thing as "two Islams". The Shia sect has nothing to do with real Islam 'cause of 4 simplified reasons (and I do not wish to engage in to further discussions):

1. Aspersion on the Qur'an by claimin' that the Sahaabah ommited verses
2. Aspersion on the Sunnah ('cause they were nararated from the Sahaabah and accordin' to them, the Sahaabah are kaffirs) of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)
3. They regard Ahl al-Sunnah as Kaffirs and whoever regards Muslims as kaafir, is a kaafir himself.
4. Lastly, grossly exaggerations about Ali (May Allah be pleased with him)

When one mentions the Islamic Khilafa (Caliphate), one should bear in mind that the system is composed of the Qur'an and the Sunnah. Those are the two standard sources of the Shariah Law.

Peace

Can someone post up the hadeeth where the Proiphet (SWH) said the hour will not come until the later generations of muslims will curse the earlier generation muslims, it could be referring to this?
 
:sl:,

I've never came across that Hadith. Could you remember the some of the exact wordin' akhi so I could research it.

:w:
 
I have heard it in many talks on the topic of the hour they say something like, "The hour will not come until the later generations of muslims curse the earlier generations" I looked on google for it, but I know for sure I have heard this more than once
 
All I could find is the following:

Sahih Muslim
Book 031, Number 6167:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not revile my Companions, do not revile my Companions. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if one amongst you would have spent as much gold as Uhud it would not amount to as much as one much on behalf of one of them or half of it.


If I come across the one you mentioned, i'll let you know, insha'Allah.

:w:
 
:sl:

All I've found is this vague reference:

"When the latter generations of this Ummah curse its first generations, if someone conceals a Hadith, he has concealed what Allah has revealed." (Ibn Majah).

However, it doesn't provide a detailed reference in order to verify it.
 
Ok brothers i will look for the talk i heard it in, I think it may be Ahmed Ali's but I will post it up when i find it inshallah
 
I have read the Shia thread, and found myself unable to post in it.

However, as I begun to read it, I noticed some things that seemed too anti-shiia to be at all objective.

I begun a googe search and found this:
The booklet The Difference Between The Shiites and the Majority of Muslim Scholars, authored by Saeed Ismail, is distributed in English and Arabic by WAMY, in Alexandria, Va. It claims that a fictional Yemeni Jew, Abdullah Ibn Sabaa, conspired with other Jews to create a division in Islam, and planted Jewish ideas which become Shi’a Islam. Its states, “The Jewish conspiracy (among others), represented by Abdullah Bin Sabaa, first influenced Muslims who were less knowledgeable about Islam and later on, spread to the rest of the Muslim community.”
http://www.saudiinstitute.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=126&Itemid=39
In fact, further searching reveals that this is a long standing tradition to place blame on a Jewish conspiracy for the sunni-shiia split. This is both nonsensical and plainly untrue.
Further example can be seen here: http://www.ummah.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-6820.html
 
Greetings, spacefalcon.

The sectarian section is only for articles, and not discussion, which is why you were unable to post there.

It is a fact that Abdullah bin Sabaa was involved in such a conspiracy against the muslims, but it is certain that he was disobeying Judaism by doing so. Just as terrorists who kill in the name of Islam are actually disobeying Islam.

No Muslim blames Judaism for the split between Ahlus-Sunnah and the Shias, the blame rests on the specific conspirator who just so happened to be a Jew.

The quote you posted says:
and planted Jewish ideas which become Shi’a Islam

That is utter nonsense. I have read the entire article, and at no point does it claim that Abdullah bin Sabaa planted 'Jewish' ideas into Shiaism.

Hopefully, that clarifies the issue.

:w:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar Threads

Back
Top