Islam and science?

[Dirk_Deagler]

Re: When friends lose faith ...

Can I get a link to a scientific article explaining that theory please.

 

[Dirk_Deagler]

Re: When friends lose faith ...

It doesn't really make any sense to me. It doesn't seem live Islam gets along with science anymore than Christianity does. But I suppose it depends on the person.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Re: When friends lose faith ...

I heard it from Dr.Zakir Naik, im currently searching for an article, please wait

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: When friends lose faith ...

I don't think any muslim could reasonably dispute that the progress of discoveries in the islamic world slowed down dramatically a few hundred years back.

Islam was THE centre of knowledge and discovery during the Christian Dark Ages. Discovery was repressed then by Islam very similarly to how it was repressed by Christianity. Christianity then had the enlightenment and it reformed a little, enough for science to skyrocket again. Islam still hasn't, though from what I read above it may be making progress.

If not for religious supression of "heretics" and opposition to discovery who knows how far along human technology could be by now. Maybe we'd have a colony on mars. Maybe we'd have cured cancer.

 

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

I have moved the posts about Islam and science into this thread. Seeing as this discussion has arisen many times before, I was not sure where to move the posts, but this thread seems to be quite similar to the issues brought up (in the 'When friends lose faith' thread) and seems quite "peaceful" as of yet.

Please keep the discussion civil and on-topic!

Thank you.

 

[Woodrow]

In my view Science does not prove the Qur'an, but many times the Qur'an proves science. There is no contradiction in truth, truth is truth no matter how it is found. It is just that the Qur'an came before modern science and the world is finaly "discovering" what was already revealed.

 

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

Regarding the issue of Islam and science, I think an important point is one which addresses the following quote:

Many atheists seem to be anti religious because religions often attack the foundations of the atheist's beliefs, science, logic and critical thinking.

While that is understandable to some degree, it is not understandable in the case of Islam. Islam does not "attack" science, nor does it attack logic or critical thinking. On the contrary, it encourages these things. Focusing on science, it has been debated how much science is actually mentioned in the Qur'an and where such knowledge could have originated, but a key point to note is that Islam does not contradict science.

Unfortunately Islam fell into a similar funk that Christianity fell into during its dark ages. It became in religious fashion to oppose science and discovery and stick strictly to dogma. And then for a long time not only did Islamic discoveries slow down, they pretty much ground to a halt...

Discovery was repressed then by Islam very similarly to how it was repressed by Christianity.

The Islamic golden age did indeed see an unfortunate decline. However, I disagree that such a decline was due to a change in "religious fashion". The religion of Islam has remained the same, and it was precisely the "sticking strictly to this dogma" which was the seed of that civilisation. What has changed, however, is the followers of that faith. The people became disunited and the embellishments of this world caused them to lose sight of the most important thing for their success. So the loss of Islam in the hearts of people brought an end to that era, not a change in the religion itself.

Peace.

 

[Abdul Fattah]

Re: When friends lose faith ...

Islam * WAS * the centre of learning during Europe's Christian Dark Ages. Muslims were discovering pretty much everything during that time, as Christians were turning against science and killing heretics (scientists). There's a reason why we use "arabic" numerals today and why Algebra has that name, and why numerous star clusters have islamic names.

Unfortunately Islam fell into a similar funk that Christianity fell into during its dark ages.

Well it's true that Islam is no longer the center of learning, but I think that's a problem of poverty, not a result falling into a simular funk. Since the colonisation and all the war in the middle east it has become hard for Islam to still be the center of the learning world.

It became in religious fashion to oppose science and discovery and stick strictly to dogma. And then for a long time not only did Islamic discoveries slow down, they pretty much ground to a halt.

I don't know which discoveries Islam slows down or opposes science and discovery? Would you care to illustrate with examples?

 

[Skillganon]

So what was this topic about?

The Quran is a book of signs not a science book.

 

[Keltoi]

I think the issue of science and religion boils down to cultural phenomena and not so much religious dogma. Yes, during the Dark Ages science was put on the backburner and religious dogma from the Catholic Church frowned upon scientific discovery. That being said, the Dark Ages began as a result of the fall of the Roman Empire, not Christianity. Culturally, the Dark Ages produced centuries of warfare and feudalism. A similar situation occurred with the Islamic centers of learning, as colonization and warfare put academic and scientific discovery on the backburner. It's not so much a question of dogma, but cultural realities. Of course religion has interfered with science in obvious ways, but the primary reason for scientific decline in societies are cultural and not so much due to religious interference.

 

[Dirk_Deagler]

I've seen many prominent Muslims attack some of the tenants of modern science.

Dr.Zakir Naik for instance has spoken against evolution. But let me assure you, Evolution is the singular unifying theory of biology. There are literally mountains of evidence for it, and only hypothetical conjecture against it.

There is a definite correlation between religious people and people who don't believe in evolution.

Now, I'm not saying that the theory of evolution has to be correct. But I think its safe to say that the chances of it being disproved are less than the chances of finding out that the universe DOES IN FACT rotate around the earth.

Until you explain this discrepancy between Islam and science I don't see how I'll be able to understand the agreement.

 

[Goku]

Re: When friends lose faith ...

I hope this is an upward trend.

Islam * WAS * the centre of learning during Europe's Christian Dark Ages.
Muslims were discovering pretty much everything during that time, as Christians were turning against science and killing heretics (scientists). There's a reason why we use "arabic" numerals today and why Algebra has that name, and why numerous star clusters have islamic names.

Unfortunately Islam fell into a similar funk that Christianity fell into during its dark ages. It became in religious fashion to oppose science and discovery and stick strictly to dogma. And then for a long time not only did Islamic discoveries slow down, they pretty much ground to a halt.

Christianity managed to fight back agaisnt the dogma that kept science down for the centuries of its dark ages. I hope Islam will do / is doing the same.

Peace Pygoscelis. Thats interesting, I knew about the Islamic golden age but i didnt know they were discovering stars even back then. During Islamic law, Science flourished while during Christian law, science diminished. I really hope the Islamic world can bounce back and excel in the fields of Science once again. Can you give examples of stars that have Islamic names? Thanks.

 

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

Dr.Zakir Naik for instance has spoken against evolution.

Has he spoken against all aspects of evolution, or has he spoken against evolution of mankind specifically?

There is a definite correlation between religious people and people who don't believe in evolution.

Perhaps you will be interested to read: http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/6570-biological-evolution-islamic-perspective.html

Now, I'm not saying that the theory of evolution has to be correct. But I think its safe to say that the chances of it being disproved are less than the chances of finding out that the universe DOES IN FACT rotate around the earth.

Out of interest, who said the universe rotates around the earth?

Until you explain this discrepancy between Islam and science I don't see how I'll be able to understand the agreement.

Seeing as Islam does not oppose the concept of evolution altogether, we have not yet found a discrepancy.

Regards.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Out of interest, who said the universe rotates around the earth?

Was around for a long time before being firs codified by Ptolemy, 150 AD in "Almagest", which I believe is arabic for "the greatest" (correct me if I'm wrong about that translation). They believed the movement of the heavens to be the work of the Gods.

This is a trend that we have seen again and again. Religious thought pops up at the limits of our knowledge, when we can't explain something. It is the God of the gaps and it stands in the way of discovery. It is how people give up the search without feeling bad about it.

Newton is another example. Brilliant guy. But even he, at the limit of his intellect/knowledge he invokes religious thought. He explains how the planets keep themselves working (two body force, universal law of gravitation) without any mention of God. But when he gets to third, fourth, and fifth bodies all tugging away at each other it got too complicated for the tools he had at hand (Computers and higher math had not yet come to be) so he invokes God. ANd after doing that people accept its God and nobody tries to answer the question for another 100 years.

The problem with Religion vs Science is that Religion is about revelation and science is about investigation and the two frequently conflict. Religion puts some claims beyond investigation and questioning, and that impedes science.

 

[Woodrow]

Re: When friends lose faith ...

Peace Pygoscelis. Thats interesting, I knew about the Islamic golden age but i didnt know they were discovering stars even back then. During Islamic law, Science flourished while during Christian law, science diminished. I really hope the Islamic world can bounce back and excel in the fields of Science once again. Can you give examples of stars that have Islamic names? Thanks.

Here is a link to 165 of the most common. There are many more but not as well known.

LINK: http://www.icoproject.org/star.html

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: When friends lose faith ...

I don't know which discoveries Islam slows down or opposes science and discovery? Would you care to illustrate with examples?

The golden arabic age was between approximately 800 and 1100 AD. I can't agree to calling it the golden islamic age, as baghdad at the time was completely open to jews, christians, doubters, eastern people, everybody. Also, many arabics of the time were hostile to religious thought.

I agree that politics and wars and other climatic factors were part of what ended this period, but the influence of religion should not be overlooked.
Look up Imam Hazid Al-Ghazali, who was around between 1058 to 1111, right at the end of this golden age.

My understanding of his writings is not perfect but from what I understand he was a leading thinker of his time and much like aquinas his early writings had him enfactuated with greek discovery and thought which he later turned against in favour of religious dogma.

He declared that discovery must have a purpose and must line up with revalation from Islam. He was openly hostile to physics and mathematics, declaring it the work of the devil. He refused to consider that fire, for example could burn things, and instead opted for the religous explanation that God was doing it and the fire was just what we see.

He was a leading mind of the time (was pro-science within a religious setting) and when HE turned religion to be anti-investigation many others did likewise and stopped investigating.

More recently you've got Dirk's example re evolution, where religious folk won't accept the idea even though the evidence is so strong. And it isn't like many of them investigate it and find it wanting, they refuse to even consider it because they perceive a conflict between it and their religion. They only know of it the misunderstandings spoon fed to them by religious leaders. Many of them will flatly tell you that evolution says we came from monkeys.

Another example of religion standing against science in the modern world is stem cell research. Christians over here forbid scientists from researching on stem cells (we're not talking about living breathing fetuses here, just cells). They have actually placed the imagined interest of these cells over the intersts of living breathing people who will die because this research is impeded and new treatments will be delayed or not found at all.

 

[Goku]

Re: When friends lose faith ...

Here is a link to 165 of the most common. There are many more but not as well known.

LINK: http://www.icoproject.org/star.html

Salam

Jazak Allah Khair, very nice. Alhumdulillah. Did the Muslims invent the telescope?

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: When friends lose faith ...

Salam

Jazak Allah Khair, very nice. Alhumdulillah. Did the Muslims invent the telescope?

Don't think so. Not sure. I'm pretty sure these star clusters were named without the aid of telescopes. Could be wrong about that though.

 

[Woodrow]

No the telescope was invented by Galaleo (However, you spell his name). However The Arabic Countries are probably the best viewing areas for naked eye viewing. The extremely dry air and the cold night (Yes, the nights can be quite cold) minimise light diffraction and scattering making extremely dim and distant stars to be visible with the naked eye and even tho they can not be seen in most of the rest of the world. A good example is the star cluster Pleides also called the 7 sisters throughout much of the world. Typical from any observation point the naked eye observer will see 7 stars. However, most of the Arabs were able to see at least 15 there are some reports of some early astronomers in the region seeing over 30. We now know with telescopic observation that the cluster consists of thousands of stars, most not visible to the naked eye.

 

[Dirk_Deagler]

No one really knows who invented the telescope. Although Galileo was the first person to have used it to observe the heavens and to record such data and have it popularized.