Islam and Secularism

[jabeady]

You thereby accept that the American pledge of allegience is based upon falsehood and hypocrisy.....although it's impossible to pledge to a flag anyway since it is unable to hear.

Nope.

Look, the Pledge has about the same legal standing and significance as does the American Bison, Bald Eagle and, for that matter, the flag itself. They are symbols and nothing more. In fact, there are more penalties for harming the eagle and bison than there are for burning the flag or refusing to recite the Pledge.

Why some people insist on harping about the Pledge of Allegiance is beyond me. This doesn't include you, of course; it is self-evident that you will demonize virtually anything American, even Mickey Mouse. Come to think of it, do you have a conspiracy theory about Mickey? I'd like to hear it

..........are you somehow claiming that the pledge of allegiance is obviously false and meaningless but that it's not crooked?

Nope.

I'm claiming nothing at all about it. I don't care about it. I certainly care less about it than you do.

The response shows that an atheist cannot be reasoned with via simple logical explanations regardless of source despite claiming (albeit falsely) to be rationalist. Especially since the atheist has no solid source to stand upon.

And yet, here you are, attempting to "reason" with an atheist.

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." George Bernard Shaw

Don't try to test God despite seeing the truth and having the ability to rectify wrongs amd refrain from injustice or you'll weep miserably. Repent, submit to God and accept His rules and you may be shown mercy, wasting time by arguing with falsehood amd pushing injustice will only get you into bigger problems, and that applies to me, you, and everybody else.

Threatening an atheist with hell is like threatening him with with getting no presents from Santa Claus.

 

[Abz2000]

Nope.

Look, the Pledge has about the same legal standing and significance as does the American Bison, Bald Eagle and, for that matter, the flag itself. They are symbols and nothing more. In fact, there are more penalties for harming the eagle and bison than there are for burning the flag or refusing to recite the Pledge.

Why some people insist on harping about the Pledge of Allegiance is beyond me. This doesn't include you, of course; it is self-evident that you will demonize virtually anything American, even Mickey Mouse. Come to think of it, do you have a conspiracy theory about Mickey? I'd like to hear itNope.

I'm claiming nothing at all about it. I don't care about it. I certainly care less about it than you do.And yet, here you are, attempting to "reason" with an atheist.

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." George Bernard ShawThreatening an atheist with hell is like threatening him with with getting no presents from Santa Claus.

God speaks the truth always, and when He tells us that the oaths of pagans and hypocrites mean nothing to them, but they use them as a screen for their misdeeds.
It's also amazing that you keep chanting it even school assemblies and that you (think that you) elect presidents and they chant a lot of oaths religiously but which mean nothing to them.
Mickey mouse, well the sexual undertones appear purposefully aimed at kids so i give them caillou or other Islamically acceptable cartoons.
I definitely hate getting dirty an pigs are indeed impure.
It is clear that facts mean nothing to religious atheists and they avoid thinking about obious factual conspiracies "as a rule" so i'll try and stay clean.
Just a piece of sincere advice, it's better that you accept the truth that is before your eyes, repent to God and submit in Islam, if you choose not to do so, then refrain harassing and harming Muslims and hanging around their feet like dogs and serpents, and if anyone claims to be Muslim yet rejects the rule of God, they can get out of Muslim lands and join their infidel and hypocrite counterparts, that way we can live in peace. And no human is responsible for what God does.
Adios.

 

[jabeady]

Mickey mouse, well the sexual undertones appear purposefully aimed at kids so i give them caillou or other Islamically acceptable cartoons.

Sexual undertones. Mickey Mouse.

Man! You are one sick cookie.

I definitely hate getting dirty...

Au contraire, mon frere, you seem to love it. If the dirt isn't already there, you'll provide it.

a piece of sincere advice, it's better that you accept the truth...

More preaching. Sigh.

Here's a little advice of my own: It may prove more beneficial for you to try teaching by example, rather than by sanctimonious invective and vitriol. Just a thought.

 

[Abz2000]

Sexual undertones. Mickey Mouse.

Man! You are one sick cookie.

It's easy to see what type of sickness lies behind the producers of such cartoons since there is absolutely no reason to push at toddlers pictures of a male mouse with hearts coming out of it's eyes whilst chasing after a slu#ty female mouse with long lashes, huge amounts of face plaster, and swinging it's hips.
They are not of an age to process such information correctly and it flies in the face of respect of others daughters and of marriage.

Au contraire, mon frere, you seem to love it. If the dirt isn't already there, you'll provide it.More preaching. Sigh.

The facts are easily discernable to any who cares to understand the difference between stating valid opinions, and trolling with non-issues and falsehood - despite the truth being ever present and such issues being very carefully steered around or indirectly smeared or attempted to be undone with illusions- thereby indicating acknowledgement and parallel denial.

Here's a little advice of my own: It may prove more beneficial for you to try teaching by example, rather than by sanctimonious invective and vitriol. Just a thought.

Easy to see the button pushing, prodding and trolling just from the last quote. A bit difficult to remain silent despite seeing through it since false narratives often become unwittingly accepted unless someone (no matter how seasoned) bothers to point out the facts, what exactly are you hoping to achieve on an internet forum which promotes Islam? Promote atheism? insistently argue with baseless terms and flags and oaths and other strawmen which you yourself admit to rejecting?
Anything constructive at all or just a contentment with throwing coins with undefined and undefinable secularism (Godlessness/atheism/anarchy/people worship) on both sides?
You know that's really trolling.

 

[jabeady]

It's easy to see what type of sickness lies behind the producers of such cartoons since there is absolutely no reason to push at toddlers pictures of a male mouse with hearts coming out of it's eyes whilst chasing after a slu#ty female mouse with long lashes, huge amounts of face plaster, and swinging it's hips.

You're not really Muslim, are you? I don't know what you really are, but for whatever reason you seem to want Islam to appear as ridiculous as possible.

I'm going to have to go on my computer to the full Web site to see if it has a blocking feature.

 

[Abz2000]

You're not really Muslim, are you?[/QUOTE]

Well, you'd have to study Islam for a change and you'd know.

 

[anatolian]

This is something that's been on my mind for a long time, especially since the refugee crisis. I'm an atheist from Europe and I've been trying to learn about Islam for about 3 months now. Not because I want to convert, but because a huge amount of Muslims are coming to our countries since 2015. I'm not a huge fan of any religion and in my opinion secularism is one of Europe's greatest achievements. Hence my question:

Is Islam and Secularism compatible, especially for Muslims migrants?

Let me explain where I'm coming from. As an atheist I can't even fathom what it feels like to believe in God. I can't fathom what it feels like to actually have a book in which our creator explains everything to us. As far as I've understood it, Islam is like a very comprehensive instruction manual on life. It sets rules for nutrition, intercourse, law, social behavior etc., etc. Let's say I believe in all of this. I have no doubt that all of this is completely true. The Quran is Gods last and final word. Why would I ever integrate into any society, that goes against those rules? Why would I follow the constitution of a country, if I have my very own divine constitution? Why would I change my way of live in the slightest, if I believe my way is ordained by God?

Now I don't want to offend anybody. I don't mind usually, but I DO feel like I'm a guest here so I don't want to be rude. I seriously don't have an opinion on this and I'm dying to get some opinions from Muslims. You all have a great day.

Peace bro. Actually the answer is not so simple. But simply yes a muslim can live his religion under a Secular State as long as the state doesnt persecute muslims because of their religion in the name of secularism. We lived this a lot in China and Soviet Union in past. On the other hand yes if Muslims happen to be majority they can request an Islamic State which is well defined in Quran and Sunnah. But there are examples also, in which predominantly Muslims live but majority do not want an Islamic Sate, for example my country. So it is a bit complicated.

 

[anatolian]

Ataturk was not a state neutrality secular like the US founding fathers. He was a secular extremist, anti-theist , especially Islam and very culturally nationalist tyrant.

Salam Aleykum. I am sure you have studied His period very well to call Him a tyrant. But I cant call Him one although I accept that He did some mistakes.

 

[nadinesauriol]

This is something that's been on my mind for a long time, especially since the refugee crisis. I'm an atheist from Europe and I've been trying to learn about Islam for about 3 months now. Not because I want to convert, but because a huge amount of Muslims are coming to our countries since 2015. I'm not a huge fan of any religion and in my opinion secularism is one of Europe's greatest achievements. Hence my question:

Is Islam and Secularism compatible, especially for Muslims migrants?

Let me explain where I'm coming from. As an atheist I can't even fathom what it feels like to believe in God. I can't fathom what it feels like to actually have a book in which our creator explains everything to us. As far as I've understood it, Islam is like a very comprehensive instruction manual on life. It sets rules for nutrition, intercourse, law, social behavior etc., etc. Let's say I believe in all of this. I have no doubt that all of this is completely true. The Quran is Gods last and final word. Why would I ever integrate into any society, that goes against those rules? Why would I follow the constitution of a country, if I have my very own divine constitution? Why would I change my way of live in the slightest, if I believe my way is ordained by God?

Now I don't want to offend anybody. I don't mind usually, but I DO feel like I'm a guest here so I don't want to be rude. I seriously don't have an opinion on this and I'm dying to get some opinions from Muslims. You all have a great day.

As-Salaam-Alaikum,

The definition and application of secularism, especially the place of islamic religion in society, varies among islamic countries as it does among western countries.

Khuda Hafiz.