islam and the afterlife

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dadadadaedalus

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hello

i have long considered following a religion. i was raised a bapist christian but quickly abandoned christian ideas because they did not agree with my ideology. i've studied several religions; christianity, buddhism, taoism, and islam, as well as several less-known religions (which were retarded: see wiccan).

im a white american and have avoided islam for quite some time because of the negative connotation others of my ethnic place upon it but after some reading about islam, and reading of the qu'ran i have formed my own opinion.

im not sure if religion is even suited for me since i tend to form most of my own ideas, however there are many things that i appreciate about islam, the structure, music, and the qu'ran. i could see it being a fit for me, but there is a problem.

while i find it easy to believe in god, i find it very difficult to believe in afterlife. i do not believe in afterlives, i think they are bull****. it's difficult because as many things about islam i like or would fit into my lifestyle, i do not think i can believe in a permanent afterlife and i am very conflicted about this. i was hoping a muslim could offer some guidance.

thanks,
daedalus
 
dadadadaedalus said:
while i find it easy to believe in god, i find it very difficult to believe in afterlife. i do not believe in afterlives, i think they are bull****. it's difficult because as many things about islam i like or would fit into my lifestyle, i do not think i can believe in a permanent afterlife and i am very conflicted about this. i was hoping a muslim could offer some guidance.

thanks,
daedalus
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Well, I too have problems with the idea of an eternal afterlife and indeed eternal punishment. I cannot believe a Most Merciful God would condemn any of his creation (indeed, no human ever would) to a blazing fire for an infinite period, of time regardless of the crime. To me, that is not justice, that is sadism, particularly when the worst crime would be to associate partners with God, whilst those who would be slightly less punished (and maybe even forgiven) would include rapists, paedophiles and murderers.
 
If there is no afterlife then i think probably this entire universe was created by chance and everything evolved just by chance and there is no purpose of anything (whatever u see in the cosmos) which i dont personnaly believe. I aint no scholar in such things and do not possess much knowledge however im sure soon u will get comprehensive reply from our brothers and sisters on your question.

till then take care
 
Adib Shaikh said:
If there is no afterlife then i think probably this entire universe was created by chance and everything evolved just by chance and there is no purpose of anything (whatever u see in the cosmos) which i dont personnaly believe. I aint no scholar in such things and do not possess much knowledge however im sure soon u will get comprehensive reply from our brothers and sisters on your question.

till then take care
Click to expand...

Why must it be only one or the other? There are not just two options here, Islamic akhirat or no afterlife. I believe in a God and an afterlife, just not one which contradicts the claim of its God being Most Merciful, or Ar-Rahman by condemning certain people - polytheists - to the Hellfire forever. Not that I am a polytheist myself, but I cannot reconcile Ar-Rahman with 'a blazing torment everlasting', it is maybe my shortcoming.

Just because we do not know the purpose does not mean there isn't one.
 
This is article by Dr Zakir Naik , Hope this will help you

1. Belief in the hereafter is not based on blind faith?
Many people wonder as to how a person with a scientific and logical temperament, can lend any credence to the belief of life after death. People assume that anyone believing in the hereafter is doing so on the basis of blind belief.

My belief in the hereafter is based on a logical argument.


2. Hereafter a logical belief
There are more than a thousand verses in the Glorious Qur’an, containing scientific facts (refer my book "Qur’an and Modern Science-Compatible or Incompatible?"). Many facts mentioned in the Qur’an have been discovered in the last few centuries. But science has not advanced to a level where it can confirm every statement of the Qur’an.

Suppose 80% of all that is mentioned in the Qur’an has been proved 100% correct. About the remaining 20%, science makes no categorical statement, since it has not advanced to a level, where it can either prove or disprove these statements. With the limited knowledge that we have, we cannot say for sure whether even a single percentage or a single verse of the Qur’an from this 20% portion is wrong. Thus when 80% of the Qur’an is 100% correct and the remaining 20% is not disproved, logic says that even the 20% portion is correct. The existence of the hereafter, which is mentioned in the Qur’an, falls in the 20% ambiguous portion which my logic says is correct.


3. Concept of peace and human values is useless without the concept of hereafter

Is robbing a good or an evil act? A normal balanced person would say it is evil. How would a person who does not believe in the hereafter convince a powerful and influential criminal that robbing is evil?

Suppose I am the most powerful and influential criminal in the world. At the same time I am an Intelligent and a logical person. I say that robbing is good because it helps me lead a luxurious life. Thus robbing is good for me.

If anybody can put forward a single logical argument as to why it is evil for me, I will stop immediately. People usually put forward the following arguments:

a. The person who is robbed will face difficulties

Some may say that the person who is robbed will face difficulties. I certainly agree that it is bad for the person who is robbed. But it is good for me. If I rob a thousand dollars, I can enjoy a good meal at a 5 star restaurant.

b. Someone may rob you

Some people argue that someday I may be robbed. No one can rob me because I am a very powerful criminal and I have hundreds of bodyguards. I can rob anybody but nobody can rob me. Robbing may be a risky profession for a common man but not for an influential person like me.

c. The police may arrest you

Some may say, if you rob, you can be arrested by the police. The police cannot arrest me because I have the police on my payroll. I have the ministers on my payroll. I agree that if a common man robs, he will be arrested and it will be bad for him, but I am an extraordinarily influential and powerful criminal.

Give me one logical reason why it is bad for me and I will stop robbing.

d. Its easy money

Some may say its easy money and not hard-earned money. I agree completely that it is easy money, and that is one of the main reasons why I rob. If a person has the option of earning money the easy as well as the hard way, any logical person would choose the easy way.

e. It is against humanity

Some may say it is against humanity and that a person should care for other human beings. I counter argue by asking as to who wrote this law called ‘humanity’ and why should I follow it?

This law may be good for the emotional and sentimental people but I am a logical person and I see no benefit in caring for other human beings.

f. It is a selfish act

Some may say that robbing is being selfish. It is true that robbing is a selfish act; but then why should I not be selfish? It helps me enjoy life.

1. No logical reason for robbing being an evil act

Hence all arguments that attempt to prove that robbing is an evil act are futile. These arguments may satisfy a common man but not a powerful and influential criminal like me. None of the arguments can be defended on the strength of reason and logic. It is no surprise that there are so many criminals in this world.

Similarly raping, cheating etc. can be justified as good for a person like me and there is no logical argument that can convince me that these things are bad.

2. A Muslim can convince a powerful and influential criminal

Now let us switch sides. Suppose you are the most powerful and influential criminal in the world, who has the police and the ministers on his payroll. You have army of thugs to protect you. I am a Muslim who will convince you that robbing, raping, cheating, etc. are evil acts.

Even if I put forth the same arguments to prove that robbing is evil the criminal will respond the same way as he did earlier.

I agree that the criminal is being logical and all his arguments are true only when he is the most powerful and influential criminal.

3. Every human being wants justice

Each and every human being desires justice. Even if he does not want justice for others he wants justice for himself. Some people are intoxicated by power and influence and inflict pain and suffering on others. The same people, however, would surely object if some injustice was done to them. The reason such people become insensitive to the suffering of others is that they worship power and influence. Power and influence, they feel, not only allows them to inflict injustice on others but also prevents others from doing likewise to them.

4. God is Most Powerful and Just

As a Muslim I would convince the criminal about the existence of Almighty God (refer to answer proving the existence of God). This God is more powerful than you and at the same time is also just. The Glorious Qur’an says:

"Allah is never unjust
In the least degree"[Al-Qur’an 4:40]

5. Why does God not punish me?

The criminal, being a logical and scientific person, agrees that God exists, after being presented with scientific facts from the Qur’an. He may argue as to why God, if He is Powerful and Just, does not punish him.

6. The people who do injustice should be punished

Every person who has suffered injustice, irrespective of financial or social status, almost certainly wants the perpetrator of injustice to be punished. Every normal person would like the robber or the rapist to be taught a lesson. Though a large number of criminals are punished, many even go scot-free. They lead a pleasant, luxurious life, and even enjoy a peaceful existence. If injustice is done to a powerful and influential person, by someone more powerful and more influential than he, even such a person would want that person perpetrators of injustice to be punished.

7. This life is a test for the hereafter

This life is a test for the hereafter. The Glorious Qur’an says:

"He who created DeathAnd life that HeMay try which of you is best in deed;And He is the Exalted In Might, Oft-Forgiving"[Al-Qur’an 67:2]

8. Final justice on day of judgement

The Glorious Qur’an says:

"Every soul shall have A taste of death: And only on the Day Of Judgement shall you Be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved Far from the Fire And admitted to the Garden Will have attained
The object (of life):For the life of this world Is but goods and chattels Of deception." [Al-Qur’an 3:185]

Final justice will be meted out on the Day of Judgement. After a person dies, he will be resurrected on the Day of Judgement along with the rest of mankind. It is possible that a person receives part of his punishment in this world. The final reward and punishment will only be in the hereafter. God Almighty may not punish a robber or a rapist in this world but he will surely be held accountable on the Day of Judgement and will be punished in the hereafter i.e. life after death.

9. What punishment can the human law give Hitler?

Hitler incinerated six million Jews during his reign of terror. Even if the police had arrested him, what punishment can the human law give Hitler for justice to prevail? The most they can do is to send Hitler to the gas chamber. But that will only be punishment for the killing of one Jew. What about the remaining five million, nine hundred and ninety nine thousand, nine hundred and ninety-nine Jews?

10. Allah can burn Hitler more than six million times in hellfire

Allah say in the Glorious Qur’an:

"Those who rejectOur signs, We shall soonCast into the Fire;As often as their skinsAre roasted through,
We shall change themFor fresh skins' That they may taste The penalty: for AllahIs Exalted in Power, Wise" [Al-Qur’an 4:56]


If Allah wishes he can incinerate Hitler six million times in the hereafter in the hellfire.

11. No concept of human values or good and bad without concept of hereafter
It is clear that without convincing a person about the hereafter, i.e. life after death, the concept of human values and the good or evil nature of acts is impossible to prove to any person who is doing injustice especially when he is influential and powerful.
 
i do not believe in creation in the literal sense. i don't believe in taking religious text as literal fact without supported scientific evidence. what would make more sense to me is that evolution is simply the tool of creation. i have my opinions but at the end of the day it isn't really for me to say and i don't care all that much.

i can't believe in "life after death", not in the sense that there is something comparable to our lives as human beings. there seems to be a cycle to things, if my soul goes on to other places and becomes a part of the universe in other ways that is fine, i could believe that. if you spend time in a place like purgatory and then are judged it would make more sense to me that you are reincarnated. its hard to say, i know that i do not believe in heaven or hell in the sense described by popular denominations of christianity. i would have to study more about islam before i can say i understand what after life means in islam.

right now i am trying to find out if my beliefs about it are compatible with islam. i become interested in religions but usually end up finding many beliefs that are not compatible with my own.

also the way i understand it at the moment is that islam is more or less 'take it or leave it' with the belief system. is there room for your own opinions?

thanks,
daedalus
 
dadadadaedalus said:
while i find it easy to believe in god, i find it very difficult to believe in afterlife. i do not believe in afterlives, i think they are bull****. it's difficult because as many things about islam i like or would fit into my lifestyle, i do not think i can believe in a permanent afterlife and i am very conflicted about this. i was hoping a muslim could offer some guidance.
Click to expand...

Peace, dadadadaedalus,

So you believe in God, but not an afterlife. Tell me something, do you believe that amongst the qualities of God, one of them is that He is Fair and Just? If you believe that He is Just, then that means there HAS to be an afterlife. If there's no afterlife, then that means God is unfair.

Let' say theres one person who spends his whole life in good deeds, helping people, gives his wealth to charity, assisting the poor, when he dies, he's buried on earth, and there's no afterlife. Another person, a murderer and rapist, and a thief on top of that, also dies, and is buried on earth with no afterlife? Did they both go to the same place? According to you, the answer would be yes, because there's no afterlife. They're both buried in the ground. It's over for them, no reward, no punishment. As you believe in God, that would make Him most unfair by Him not rewarding the good-doer, and not punishing the bad-doer.

Even little children understand the concept of justice. When children are starting to walk, and say the child falls and hits his head on the table. He cries and cries, and the mother tries to console him, but the child still cries until....the the mother hits the table and says, "Bad table! Naughty table!" and then the child stops crying. Even this child that doesn't yet fully understand language, understands the concept of retribution and justice.

Animals understand too. Go to the zoo, injure the monkey or throw stones at the monkey, and see what the animal will throw back at you. Even animals understand this concept.

So how can it be, that God doesn't understand this concept?

If He's Fair and Just, then there IS an afterlife.

Peace.

P.S. the above examples are just to illustrate the point. I do NOT mean to suggest that a child or a monkey understands more than you by the way, in case you might be thinking that!
 
really what my point is here though is to find out if my beliefs are compatible with islam. from what ive read islam is a rigid religion. dogma is described and that is what you are supposed to believe. i could be very wrong.

i dont believe in taking religious scripts literally. i dont believe in creation literally like some fool just stuck his hand out there and poof. you understand?

but what evolution, science, etc are just tools of god? i can and do believe that.

about afterlives? i don't like that idea, i don't believe in it at all. i don't believe that people have an after life like they have their natural lives on earth.

the idea that feels most comfortable to me is that your soul continues to exist in another form. perhaps you spend time in purgatory waiting to be judged, your judgement being the form you take in your next life.

or perhaps your soul becomes a part of the universe in some other way?

i suppose im asking other more studied people if my personal beliefs are compatible with islam? they aren't with most other religions, then there are some i simply don't like.

it makes finding a religion a difficult thing for me. and a lot of people wonder why i bother and it's because there are aspects of theism that i appreciate.
 
Peace,

also the way i understand it at the moment is that islam is more or less 'take it or leave it' with the belief system. is there room for your own opinions?
Click to expand...

The reason that all religions that have deviated from their original form have deviated, is because of people giving and presenting their own opinion on matters of the religion, which later then got taken to be part of the religion. Even the greatest scholars of Islam did not give their own opinions. They looked at all available evidence, verified it's authenticity, and then came to a conclusion based on those facts, and made public how they arrived at that conclusion. The Qur'an is the only religious book free of any human's opinion, AND completely unchanged. Actually, it's free of any human's word. Full Stop.

i dont believe in creation literally like some fool just stuck his hand out there and poof. you understand?
Click to expand...

Would that "fool" you are referring to, in your mind, happen to be God by any chance?

Muslims believe in creation literally. Science is now beginning to 'prove' things stated in the Qur'an 1400 years ago.

i don't believe that people have an after life like they have their natural lives on earth.
Click to expand...

This life we have on Earth is temporary (70-100 years max). Our permanent lives will be then, after we are judged on Judgement Day. We will all be resurrected from our graves and gathered for Judgement by Allah. Our deeds will be weighed. There will be only two destinations, heaven and hell. No reincarnation, no joining the universe or anything else.

You will be responsible for your own good and bad deeds. No one died for your sins.

It won't be a case of "I'm a good person and never hurt anyone therefore I'm sure I'll be OK". Allah has told us the standards we need to adhere to in the Qur'an, our syllabus to pass the exam if you like. You must believe in Him as the One True Lord, Who has NO associate whatsoever in His divinity, and Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the final messenger, as the barest minimum. A declaration in your heart and on your tongue of that in Arabic, makes you a Muslim. You must also believe in all the other prophets (peace be upon them), without rejecting any, and without exaggerating the status of any. Belief, however MUST be accompanied by good deeds, as stipulated in the Qur'an. The Qur'an states in many places, "Indeed those who believe and do good deeds..."

i suppose im asking other more studied people if my personal beliefs are compatible with islam? they aren't with most other religions, it makes finding a religion a difficult thing for me.
Click to expand...

I would urge you to put your own opinions and ideas of what fits with "your beliefs" aside and approach your study of Islam with an open and broad mind. You are likely to get far more from it that way.

In that vein, please do ask any more questions you may have.

Peace.
 
Last edited:
dadadadaedalus said:
hello

i have long considered following a religion. i was raised a bapist christian but quickly abandoned christian ideas because they did not agree with my ideology. i've studied several religions; christianity, buddhism, taoism, and islam, as well as several less-known religions (which were retarded: see wiccan).

im a white american and have avoided islam for quite some time because of the negative connotation others of my ethnic place upon it but after some reading about islam, and reading of the qu'ran i have formed my own opinion.

im not sure if religion is even suited for me since i tend to form most of my own ideas, however there are many things that i appreciate about islam, the structure, music, and the qu'ran. i could see it being a fit for me, but there is a problem.

while i find it easy to believe in god, i find it very difficult to believe in afterlife. i do not believe in afterlives, i think they are bull****. it's difficult because as many things about islam i like or would fit into my lifestyle, i do not think i can believe in a permanent afterlife and i am very conflicted about this. i was hoping a muslim could offer some guidance.

thanks,
daedalus
Click to expand...

Dear
Please have a look
Here are the arguments of afterlife according to Quran:


1- Just as our Creator gave us life in this world He will bring us back to life on the Day of Resurrection.

2- Allah Who created the heavens and the earth and was not tired of it can easily bring the dead back to life.

3-Allah Who created the heavens and the earth can create the like of them. He can create the Hell and the Paradise.

4- It is He Who originates the creation, then will repeat it and it is easier for Him. As doing the same for the second time is naturally easier than the first time. Although neither the first nor the second creation is difficult for Him.

5-Afterlife is the natural demand of our morality as we know that good and bad are not equal and same and they shouldn't be. Should the reward of prophets and pious people (who are the best people of humanity) and the worst people be the same. Should human beings and trees or insects be dealt equally that both die and that is all?

Here are some verses from Quran having such arguments.

(Al Kahaf Sura No 18, Verse no 37)
Do you disbelieve in Him Who created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then He fashioned you into a perfect man?

(Al Dukhan Sura No 44, Verse no 38)
And We have not created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them for amusement.

(Al Maryam Sura No 19, Verse no 66-67)
And man (the disbeliever) says: "What! When I am dead, shall I then be raised up alive?" Doesn't he remember that We created him before, when he was nothing

(Yaseen Sura No 36, Verse no 77-83)
Does not man see that We created him from a mere sperm-drop? Yet behold! he (stands forth) as an open quarreler. And he makes comparisons for Us and forgets his own creation. He says: "Who will give life to these bones after they are rotten and have become dust?" Say: "He will give them life Who created them for the first time! And He is the All-knower of every creation!" He Who produces for you fire out of the green tree, when behold, you kindle from it. Is not He Who created the heavens and the earth, Able to create the like of them? Yes, indeed! He is the All-Knowing Supreme Creator. Verily, His command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says to it, "Be" ــ and it is! So glory to Him in Whose hands is the dominion of all things: and to Him will you be brought back.
For details please visit
www.quranictopics.com
 

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