Islam isnt compatible with western civilization?

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Entirely depends on what is meant by "Islam". Let's not pretend that it is the same everywhere or everywhen. I know plenty of Western Muslims, even very liberal ones, that coexist in perfect harmony with the larger societies that they live in. And then you have those who want to dominate the rest of us and tell us we must live as they do and do this and refrain from that.

So long as you have a keep it to yourself attitude, I will have no issue with you. But as soon as you try to run my life based on what I see as your delusions, we are not going to get along. For many muslims it makes sense to simply stay out of western societies.
 
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Entirely depends on what is meant by "Islam". Let's not pretend that it is the same everywhere or everywhen. I know plenty of Western Muslims, even very liberal ones, that coexist in perfect harmony with the larger societies that they live in. And then you have those who want to dominate the rest of us and tell us we must live as they do and do this and refrain from that.

So long as you have a keep it to yourself attitude, I will have no issue with you. But as soon as you try to run my life based on what I see as your delusions, we are not going to get along. For many muslims it makes sense to simply stay out of western societies.

Which liberal countries live in "perfect" harmony? It might not be obvious to you, because you are not visually stigmatized for either being a foreigner or a Muslim. When I converted and exercised my right to religious freedom that has been so rammed into non-western countries (Afghanistan). I realized religious freedom in these so called liberal western democracies is religious freedom as long as it is within what liberal countries want it to be. I.E Christianity, agnosticism, Catholicism, etc. Becoming Muslim, I was literally re-racialized, me a very white Caucasian looking person, I was thought as foreign, inferior, Arabic or brown, as though I didn't speak English. Lol even when I speak English now, people ask me how do I speak it so well! As though I am an idiot, then I say to them for jokes, oh English is the easiest language to learn!

The society you describe as "And then you have those who want to dominate the rest of us and tell us we must live as they do and do this and refrain from that" are western liberal societies who do the exact same thing and have been doing it for a long long long time.

For Muslims who were born, raised, and who have been living in western societies for generations, their home is here, but we are made to feel like foreigners. My mother always tells me "belief is internal, you don't need to wear the hijab" the assumption that all other religions function like Protestantism is kind of annoying. Islam is both internal AND external because the hijab is required for prayer, being clean after you go to the washroom with water and not just toiled paper is a requirement for even having these prayers validated. Everything is so intrinsically connected, that when people bother women about the hijab in liberal societies they are bothering women about their own choice to make to wear the hijab and thus belittling them and their conscious decision.

Anyhow enough of me ranting...
 
Which liberal countries live in "perfect" harmony?

I know some liberal Muslims who live quite comfortably and harmoniously here in Toronto. Many of them wear hajibs. Nobody freaks out about it. We do take issue with the Sikh guys who want to carry knives (Kirpan), but they get away with it currently, and there was an issue over a Muslima who wanted to wear a full on burqa on her driver's license (rendering the photo pointless). There was also Stephen Harper in the last election who wanted to deny women from covering their faces while taking oath of citizenship and becoming Canadian. I don't find that completely unreasonable, but he faced backlash for it (and he lost the election).

Yes, there is a history of Europeans doing horrible things and western imperialism is still active. I stood with those that protested against the Bush wars and I oppose imperialism in all of its forms. There is also a huge negative perception of Islam and Muslims in the west, especially following 9/11. But let's not pretend that popped into existence out of nowhere. Everything from 9/11 to Charlie Hebdo to Daesh to the nut that attacked Canada's parliament has fueled it. This has been unfairly generalized to Muslims as whole, a sort of broad brushing which pretty much always happens due to tribal human minds (and yes, Muslims do it too).

Those of us who recognize tribalism and bigotry for what it is push the message that Islam is not the enemy, and not all Muslims are terrorist Deash types (which should be obvious, and is to anybody who isn't a bigot). And you would think that decent Muslims everywhere would take us as allies in that, and seriously slam against the radical Muslims who promote violence and hatred. A lot of decent Muslims do. I know a few very outspoken ones. But what really shocks a lot of non-muslims is that a far greater outcry comes when somebody draws a cartoon. That is ridiculous.

When those cartoons were brought into the public eye (by Muslims protesting them and calling attention to them (so more people could see them?) after they had gone unseen long before), very few in the west dared to publish them, both because they feared a very real threat of violence and because they didn't want to offend. This set up a double standard (you can have "the Book of Mormon" and not fear death) and further painted Muslims as fragile and potentially violent. Later we had the Charlie Hebdo massacre. Je Suis Charlie.

On this very board I have come across Muslims I find perfectly compatible, with a live and let live attitude, who I would call my own brothers and sister and stand and protect them from western bigots who lump them in with the above perception of Islam. I have also come across those who want to hunt and kill homosexuals, and equate Atheism with true Evil.

I don't know about you personally, but perhaps you are in the former group. Tonight I am having dinner with my neighbours, who happen to be a married gay couple. We may invite the man across the street and the quirky single woman a few doors down. We'll all be drinking wine and listening to music on the stereo. We may dance. Next weekend if the weather is as nice as it was last weekend, I may go down to the nude beach and soak in some sun. If you were my neighbour, would this be a problem for you? Would you try to shut any of this down on us? So long as none of us tried to stop you from praying in your house or wearing your head scarf, would you co-exist with us harmoniously? I think you probably could, and the bigotry that you may face (especially in the US or France right now) is something that we can both fight against together.
 

But never the less, a muslim is always supposed to act with wisdom. In current situation more than waging war, we need the makkan phase of the Prophet of buiding one's character and conduct. The Prophet S.A.W. took the best route to spread Islam. And we should do the same according to our time. So first thing is to build your own character and conduct. And spread the message of Islam both with words and the perfection of character.

We are no longer in the "Makkan Phase" This is a phrase that the Modernist Deviants use to pacify and accept the status quo of the Ummah. And tell me, how is that working for you and the Muslims for the last 100 years? Instead of dominating, we are being dominated. The more you want to delude yourself into thinking your in a "Makkan Phase" the more you compromise Islam to the contentment of the kuffar. May Allah Azza wa Jal protect us from the whims and desires of our own selves. Ameen.
 
We are no longer in the "Makkan Phase" This is a phrase that the Modernist Deviants use to pacify and accept the status quo of the Ummah. And tell me, how is that working for you and the Muslims for the last 100 years? Instead of dominating, we are being dominated. The more you want to delude yourself into thinking your in a "Makkan Phase" the more you compromise Islam to the contentment of the kuffar. May Allah Azza wa Jal protect us from the whims and desires of our own selves. Ameen.

And how is the "dominate" phase going for you except now we have, broken libya, again dictator in egypt, civil war and destroyed syria (which may Allah end soon), two countries saudia and iran fighting cats and mouse every now and then. The more you will keep this thinking of "kuffar", the more you will not focus on yourself. I have seen so many people speaking so much bad about governemnt and west and this n thay etc, and at the end of the day, they do the same whenever they get even opportunity of oppressing the weak! Civil wars will not benefit anyone except bringing chaos to these poor lands. And stop judging and putting everyone to one basket by saying that these kind of arguements are used by modernist. If you mean by it people like Majid Nawaz or Irshad Manji, then sorry I dont support them. But there are many sincere people who follow the same and are doing (and have done) much better, like Dr. Israr Ahmed, Nouman Ali Khan, Mufti Menk, Shaikh Hamza Yousuf, Dr. Tariq Ramadan etc.
The people who bringing chaos are not doing ummah any favor. Ask yourself from where even they are purchasing there weapons for it! From the same west about who they spend day and night criticizng. They don't even have any caoability or technology to develop even simple weapons. With that situation if you want to fight with your so called "kuffar" mentality, then salam alaikum.
 
You cannot simply cherry pick points from seerah without deeper understanding and start applying it as you wish! I would advice to first stop getting emotional. Muslim never gets emotional in these matters. Remember when a person asked the prophet to give him advice, he said, "Dont get angry" he again asked thinking that it is not enough, give me something more important, so he again asked. Prophet said, "dont get angry". He again asked, prophet again said " dont get angry".
If muslims follow even this single advice, they would be in much better shape. Prophet and companions never fought someone with anger. Ali RAA when in the fight, at his last blow when the disbeliever spit on Ali's face, Ali turned back. He asked him why he did that, he said before I was fighting for Allah and when you spit, the thought of fighting for myself came.
Do you think muslims today have that character today! If not, then first work and guide others to achieve Prohpet's character first, and then think of dying for his cause. Otherwise you will end up only disgracing his name.
It is much easier to "die" for the deen instead of "living" by the deen.
 
And how is the "dominate" phase going for you except now we have, broken libya, again dictator in egypt, civil war and destroyed syria (which may Allah end soon), two countries saudia and iran fighting cats and mouse every now and then. The more you will keep this thinking of "kuffar", the more you will not focus on yourself. I have seen so many people speaking so much bad about governemnt and west and this n thay etc, and at the end of the day, they do the same whenever they get even opportunity of oppressing the weak! Civil wars will not benefit anyone except bringing chaos to these poor lands. And stop judging and putting everyone to one basket by saying that these kind of arguements are used by modernist. If you mean by it people like Majid Nawaz or Irshad Manji, then sorry I dont support them. But there are many sincere people who follow the same and are doing (and have done) much better, like Dr. Israr Ahmed, Nouman Ali Khan, Mufti Menk, Shaikh Hamza Yousuf, Dr. Tariq Ramadan etc.
The people who bringing chaos are not doing ummah any favor. Ask yourself from where even they are purchasing there weapons for it! From the same west about who they spend day and night criticizng. They don't even have any caoability or technology to develop even simple weapons. With that situation if you want to fight with your so called "kuffar" mentality, then salam alaikum.

^^ This defeatist mentality^^ So I guess Salahuddin should of just accepted the Crusaders in As-Sham since more fighting would just create more choas. And Ibn-Taymiyah should of just sat back and not inspire to rise up against the Tatars when they over ran the Muslim Lands. Go back to your self-delusion and Hamza Yusef videos along with the rest of the Rand scholars. Pathetic.
 
Someone posts a video.

Hardly anyone actually watches the video.

Muslims start arguing with each other and everyone else.

...I don't think that is the purpose of this forum.
 
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Someone posts a video.

Hardly anyone actually watches the video.

Muslims start arguing with each other and everyone else.

...I don't think that is the purpose of this forum.

I was just telling my point of view ;D I put down weapon of arguement. :hiding:
 

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