Islam Needs to "Reform"

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MesMorial

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Salaam;

I am new to the forum but I have a specific focus. I would be classified as a "Qur'an-Alone" Muslim and now before asking me any questions such as how to perform salaat etc. please visit my main page by Googling “Mesmorial Youtube” (taking you to my Youtube page) and then clicking on the second link under my picture called “A Qur'an-Alone Commentary (of the Qur'an):”.

(After all I cannot post links here yet.)

There is an article detailing the 5 pillars as described in the Qur'an as well as one dedicated to salaat. You will also notice a commentary of the first 21 Sura (it is work in progress but covers over half of the Qur'an) examining the meaning of each verse relevant to the argument of "Qur'an-Alone" and "Qur'an + Ahadith". The annotation of the first 9 Sura covers all arguments used in support of the ahadith.

However, the point of this post is to encourage all Muslims to firstly ask themselves: Is Islam an aggressive religion, or a system that takes a stance against immorality, injustice and aggression (in all their forms)? Those who can answer this will do so because they are familiar with the content of the Qur'an, and not simply with the Qur'an as "the Qur'an". Some non-Muslims (following the example of some Muslims) attempt to use the Qur'an to justify aggression and hatred in the name of Islam. The articles “Does Islam Intend to Conquer the World” (please read part II also) and “Explaining the Explanation” are responses to discussions with non-Muslims who attempted to prove that Islam was by default at war with non-Muslims.

Having read and assessed these so that my attitude to ahadith is clear (focus on the second), I would invite everyone to read (especially) “Picking Up the Pieces”.

(Any objections to "Qur'an-alone" ideas should come from the Qur'an itself in which case please look up the relevant Sura and verse commentary to find the reply. I have read Bassam Zawadi's "rebuttals" page and critiques against it (the "Qur'an-Alone" view), but I would not be here if such arguments were not already covered. People (e.g. some Sunnis!) claim that their interpretation of Islam is the only correct one, but for such people their religion is simply not enough. They put their opinion above Allah (SWT) and are not real Muslims.

In the meantime, I have no personal prejudice against the following of ahadith (except a few) although I disagree strongly that they should be elevated to "Divine Revelation". They are simply examples some of which are fabricated and some of which are useless or unsavoury (though I think there is more good than bad). My opinion can be summed up by suggesting that they should be accepted according to their relevancy and cohesion with the Qur'an (e.g. there is no "real" reason to reject the traditional prayer aside from when it contradicts a small detail in the Qur'an (tone of voice)). It is just common sense and would result in retaining the ahadith whilst not letting them divert us from the Qur'an. After all, there is only one Qur'an:


"Say: What thing is the weightiest in testimony? Say: Allah is witness between you and me; and this Quran has been revealed to me that with it I may warn you and whomsoever it reaches. Do you really bear witness that there are other gods with Allah? Say: I do not bear witness. Say: He is only one Allah, and surely I am clear of that which you set up (with Him)."

Qur'an 6:19


Examples of notes in the commentary:

The Qur’an is the truth (2:40-42, 2:91, 2:119, 2:147, 2:176, 5:48, 16:102). See 10:32-33 and the notes. The Qur’an is the sole guidance (2:63, 2:91, 2:176, 6:19, 6:114-115, 6:157, 7:144-147, 7:169-171, 12:111, 18:27, 21:45, 39:23, 45:6 etc.)


“Surely this Quran guides to that which is most upright and gives good news to the believers who do good that they shall have a great reward.”

Qur’an 17:9


Yet more guidance is required?


The main point that I am making is in the article "Picking Up the Pieces" since it outlines what I see as the problem with Islam. It is easy to lose site of the crux of the Message and become overly concerned with "order" and "method". Islam should be a vehicle of Good in the world, but to do this it must be united. It can never be united until all Muslims adopt an open attitude to every Muslim and non-Muslim alike (my attitude to "Bassam Zawadi" is open to be challenged with a good basis). The ahadith problem is not just about "authenticity", but also "authority" and "context". It does not matter (to me) as long as people are nice to each other and do not compel to their way using their own "definitions", but of course I must offer my ideas.


Khuda Hafiz
 
I will read that (the winner is always who is more organised). Your use of the emotes remind me of simple Islamophobes.

Peace.
 
I read the link. It is not the same discussion. You are unfamiliar with my viewpoint which is why I told you to read things first. Please read and respond if your intelligence matches your ego.
 
I read the link. It is not the same discussion. You are unfamiliar with my viewpoint which is why I told you to read things first. Please read and respond if your intelligence matches your ego

You're quite lippy aren't you, tsk tsk.

If you had read it and understood it properly, you would have noticed you're friend is dishing out the same false accusations as you. Refuting Hadith and stating Islam doesn't need Hadith.
 
(Any objections to "Qur'an-alone" ideas should come from the Qur'an itself in which case please look up the relevant Sura and verse commentary to find the reply.


Ok:

(1) And who believe in (the Qur'an and the sunnah ) which has been sent down (revealed) to you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) and in that which was sent down before you [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.] and they believe with certainty in the Hereafter. (Resurrection, recompense of their good and bad deeds, Paradise and Hell).
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #4)

(2) Thus We have made you [true Muslims - real believers of Islamic Monotheism, true followers of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم and his sunnah (legal ways)], a just (and the best) nation, that you be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) be a witness over you. And We made the Qiblah (prayer direction towards Jerusalem) which you used to face, only to test those who followed the Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) from those who would turn on their heels (i.e. disobey the Messenger). Indeed it was great (heavy) except for those whom Allah guided. And Allah would never make your faith (prayers) to be lost (i.e. your prayers offered towards Jerusalem). Truly, Allah is full of Kindness, the Most Merciful towards mankind.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #143)

(3) Similarly (to complete My Blessings on you), We have sent among you a Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) of your own, reciting to you Our Verses (the Qur'an) and purifying you, and teaching you the Book (the Qur'an) and the Hikmah (i.e. sunnah, Islamic laws and Fiqh - jurisprudence), and teaching you that which you used not to know.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #151)

(4) And when you have divorced women and they have fulfilled the term of their prescribed period, either take them back on reasonable basis or set them free on reasonable basis. But do not take them back to hurt them, and whoever does that, then he has wronged himself. And treat not the Verses (Laws) of Allah as a jest, but remember Allah's Favours on you (i.e. Islam), and that which He has sent down to you of the Book (i.e. the Qur'an) and Al-Hikmah (the Prophet's sunnah - legal ways - Islamic jurisprudence.) whereby He instructs you. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is All-Aware of everything.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #231)

(5) Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم to mankind): "If you (really) love Allah then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Qur'an and the sunnah), Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #31)

(7) You [true believers in Islamic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) and his sunnah] are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained) and forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden), and you believe in Allah . And had the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) believed, it would have been better for them; among them are some who have faith, but most of them are Al-Fasiqun (disobedient to Allah - and rebellious against Allah's Command).
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #110)

(8) Indeed Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He sent among them a Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) from among themselves, reciting unto them His Verses (the Qur'an), and purifying them (from sins by their following him), and instructing them (in) the Book (the Qur'an) and Al-Hikmah [the wisdom and the sunnah of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم (i.e. his legal ways, statements, acts of worship)], while before that they had been in manifest error.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #164)


(10) Had not the Grace of Allah and His Mercy been upon you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم), a party of them would certainly have made a decision to mislead you, but (in fact) they mislead none except their own selves, and no harm can they do to you in the least. Allah has sent down to you the Book (The Qur'an), and Al-Hikmah (Islamic laws, knowledge of legal and illegal things i.e. the Prophet's sunnah - legal ways), and taught you that which you knew not. And Ever Great is the Grace of Allah unto you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم).
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #113)

(11) [Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) to these idolaters (pagan Arabs) of your folk:] Follow what has been sent down unto you from your Lord (the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad's sunnah), and follow not any Auliya' (protectors and helpers who order you to associate partners in worship with Allah), besides Him (Allah). Little do you remember!
( سورة الأعراف , Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #3)

(12) Verily, Allah enjoins Al-'Adl (i.e. justice and worshipping none but Allah Alone - Islamic Monotheism) and Al-Ihsan [i.e. to be patient in performing your duties to Allah, totally for Allah's sake and in accordance with the sunnah (legal ways) of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم in a perfect manner], and giving (help) to kith and kin (i.e. all that Allah has ordered you to give them e.g., wealth, visiting, looking after them, or any other kind of help), and forbids Al-Fahsha' (i.e all evil deeds, e.g. illegal sexual acts, disobedience of parents, polytheism, to tell lies, to give false witness, to kill a life without right), and Al-Munkar (i.e all that is prohibited by Islamic law: polytheism of every kind, disbelief and every kind of evil deeds), and Al-Baghy (i.e. all kinds of oppression). He admonishes you, that you may take heed.
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #90)

(14) Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "I warn you only by the revelation (from Allah and not by the opinion of the religious scholars and others). But the deaf (who follow the religious scholars and others blindly) will not hear the call, (even) when they are warned [i.e. one should follow only the Qur'an and the sunnah (legal ways, orders, acts of worship, and the statements of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم, as the companions of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم did)] .
( سورة الأنبياء , Al-Anbiya, Chapter #21, Verse #45)

(15) Verily, in this (the Qur'an) there is a plain Message for people who worship Allah (i.e. the true, real believers of Islamic Monotheism who act practically on the Qur'an and the sunnah - legal ways of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم).
( سورة الأنبياء , Al-Anbiya, Chapter #21, Verse #106)

(16) Truly, Allah will admit those who believe (in Islamic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds (according to the Qur'an and the sunnah) to Gardens underneath which rivers flow (in Paradise). Verily, Allah does what He wills.
( سورة الحج , Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #14)


(17) Make not the calling of the Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) among you as your calling one of another. Allah knows those of you who slip away under shelter (of some excuse without taking the permission to leave, from the Messenger (صلى الله عليه وسلم). And let those who oppose the Messenger's (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) commandment (i.e. his sunnah - legal ways, orders, acts of worship, statements) (among the sects) beware, lest some Fitnah (disbelief, trials, afflictions, earthquakes, killing, overpowered by a tyrant) should befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.
( سورة النور , An-Noor, Chapter #24, Verse #63)


(18) And whosoever submits his face (himself) to Allah, while he is a Muhsin (good-doer i.e. performs good deeds totally for Allah's sake without any show off or to gain praise or fame and does them in accordance with the sunnah of Allah's Messenger Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم), then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold [La ilaha illallah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah)]. And to Allah return all matters for decision.
( سورة لقمان , Luqman, Chapter #31, Verse #22)

(19) And remember (O you the members of the Prophet's family, the Graces of your Lord), that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of Allah and Al-Hikmah (i.e. Prophet's sunnah - legal ways, so give your thanks to Allah and glorify His Praises for this Qur'an and the sunnah ). Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, Well-Acquainted with all things.
( سورة الأحزاب , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #34)

(20) And as one who invites to Allah [Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allah (Alone)] by His Leave, and as a lamp spreading light (through your instructions from the Qur'an and the sunnah - the legal ways of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم ).
( سورة الأحزاب , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #46)

(22) And during a part of the night (also) glorify His praises (i.e. Maghrib and 'Isha prayers) and (so likewise) after the prayers [As-sunnah, Nawafil - optional and additional prayers. And also glorify, praise and magnify Allah - Subhan Allah, Alhamdu lillah, Allahu-Akbar].
( سورة ق , Qaf, Chapter #50, Verse #40)

(23) He it is Who sent among the unlettered ones a Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) from among themselves, reciting to them His Verses, purifying them (from the filth of disbelief and polytheism), and teaching them the Book (this Qur'an, Islamic laws and Islamic jurisprudence) and Al-Hikmah (As-sunnah: legal ways, orders, acts of worship of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم). And verily, they had been before in manifest error;
( سورة الجمعة , Al-Jumua, Chapter #62, Verse #2)
 
addendum to above:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"So take whatever the Messenger gives you and keep away from what he forbids you." (Surah Al-Hashr 59:7)

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those charged with authority among you; and if you differ in anything among yourselves, then refer it to Allah and the Messenger if you do believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most suitable for final determination." 4:59 [/FONT]
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Obey Allah and the Messenger; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers
. 3:32
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And obey Allah and the Messenger; that you may obtain mercy.
3:132
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Those are limits set by Allah: those who obey Allah and His Messenger will be admitted to Gardens with rivers flowing beneath, to abide therein (for ever) and that will be the supreme achievement. But those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment.
4:13-14
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How serious is this command? It is the most serious. Think about the one act that we can not stop doing -- whether the phone rings, your mom calls or anything short of a threat occurs. It is salat. When we begin salat, we should not stop unless there is a dire emergency. Yet, we have an example which shows that the call of the Prophet is and was more important than completing the salat.
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Narrated Abu Said Al-Mualla: While I was praying, the Prophet passed by and called me, but I did not go to him till I had finished my prayer. When I went to him, he said, "What prevented you from coming?" I said, "I was praying." He said, "Didn't Allah say"O you who believes Give your response to Allah (by obeying Him) and to His Apostle." (8.24)... Sahih Bukhari: Volume 6, Book 60, Number 226.
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And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the good, and a goodly company are they!
4:69
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"The answer of the believers, when summoned to Allah and His Messenger in order that he may judge between them, is no other than this: they say, 'We hear and we obey'. It is such as these who will attain success."
(Surah Al-Nur 24:51)
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"But no, by your Lord! (O Muhammad) They cannot be believers until they make you judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against your decisions, but accept them with the fullest submission."
(Surah Al-Nisa' 4:65)
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Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if you turn back, know that it is Our Messenger's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner.
5:92
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They ask thee concerning (things taken as) spoils of war. Say: "(such) spoils are at the disposal of Allah and the Messenger: So fear Allah, and keep straight the relations between yourselves: Obey Allah and His Messenger, if you believe."
8:1
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O ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak)
. 8:20
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O you who believe! answer (the call of) Allah and His Messenger when he calls you to that which gives you life; and know that Allah intervenes between man and his heart, and that to Him you shall be gathered.
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 8:24 [/FONT]​
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"So take whatever the Messenger gives you and keep away from what he forbids you."
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](Surah Al-Hashr 59:7) [/FONT]​
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"You have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for anyone whose hope is in Allah."
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](33:21)[/FONT]​
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah." [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](4:80)
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]again, leaves me wondering if you've read the same Quran as the rest of us? hmmmmmmmmmn
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Ghazalah

If you read it properly please notice that I am talking about Islam, the Qur'an and the attitude to ahadith. I am not talking about Bukhari. If you call me lippy then I challenge you to a one on one public debate where you can flaunt yourself some more. If not then I suggest you look in the mirror since you will find more than what you see and yet less than what you think.

Ghazalah

If you read it properly please notice that I am talking about Islam, the Qur'an and the attitude to ahadith. I am not talking about Bukhari. If you call me lippy then I challenge you to a one on one public debate where you can flaunt yourself some more. If not then I suggest you look in the mirror since you will find more than what you see and yet less than what you think.

Lily

I am sorry that is a false rendition. The only times that "Hadith" and "Sunna" are mentioned in the Qur'an is as follows:




“Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients (and their sunna (sunnatu)) has already passed.”

Qur’an 8:38


“They do not believe in it, and indeed the way (sunnatu) of the former people has already passed.”

Qur’an 15:13


“(This is our) sunnata with regard to those of Our messengers whom We sent before you, and you shall not find a change in Our course (lisunnatina).”

Qur’an 17:77


“And nothing prevents men from believing when the guidance comes to them, and from asking forgiveness of their Lord, except that what happened (sunnatu) to the ancients should overtake them, or that the chastisement should come face to face with them.”

Qur’an 18:55


“There is no harm in the Prophet doing that which Allah has ordained for him; such has been the sunna of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and the command of Allah is a decree that is made absolute.”

Qur’an 33:38


“(In) behaving proudly in the land and in planning evil; and the evil plans shall not beset any save the authors of it. Then should they wait for aught except the sunna of the former people? For you shall not find any alteration in the sunna of Allah; and you shall not find any change in the course of Allah.”

Qur’an 35:43


“But their belief was not going to profit them when they had seen Our punishment; (this is) Allah's sunna, which has indeed obtained in the matter of His servants, and there the unbelievers are lost.”

Qur’an 40:85


“Such has been the sunna of Allah that has indeed run before, and you shall not find a change in Allah's sunna.”

Qur’an 48:23


Peace.
 
Apologies I noticed that the "at" symbol is classed as a link. That is why the last post appears confused. Here is the post:


<i>Hadith</i>


“Do they not consider the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and whatever things Allah has created, and that may be their doom shall have drawn nigh; what hadith would they then believe in after this?”

Qur’an 7:185


“In their histories there is certainly a lesson for men of understanding. It is not a hadith which could be forged, but a verification of what is before it and a distinct explanation of all things and a guide and a mercy to a people who believe.”

Qur’an 12:111


“And of men is he who takes instead frivolous ahadith to lead astray from Allah's path without knowledge, and to take it for a mockery; these shall have an abasing chastisement.”

Qur’an 31:6


“O you who believe! do not enter the houses of the Prophet unless permission is given to you for a meal, not waiting for its cooking being finished-- but when you are invited, enter, and when you have taken the food, then disperse-- not seeking a hadith; surely this gives the Prophet trouble, but he forbears from you, and Allah does not forbear from the truth And when you ask of them any goods, ask of them from behind a curtain; this is purer for your hearts and (for) their hearts; and it does not behove you that you should give trouble to the Messenger of Allah, nor that you should marry his wives after him ever; surely this is grievous in the sight of Allah.”

Qur’an 33:53


“Allah has revealed the best hadith, a book conformable in its various parts, repeating, whereat do shudder the skins of those who fear their Lord, then their skins and their hearts become pliant to the remembrance of Allah; this is Allah's guidance, He guides with it whom He pleases; and (as for) him whom Allah makes err, there is no guide for him.”

Qur’an 39:23


“These are the communications of Allah which We recite to you with truth; then in what hadith would they believe after Allah and His communications?”

Qur’an 45:6


“Then let them bring a hadith like it if they are truthful.”

Qur’an 52:34


“Do you then hold this hadith in contempt?”

Qur’an 56:81


“So leave Me and him who rejects this hadith; We will overtake them by degrees, from whence they perceive not.”

Qur’an 68:44


“In what hadith, then, after it, will they believe?”

Qur’an 77:50


“Has not there come to you the hadtih of Musa?”

Qur’an 79:15



<i>Sunna</i>


“Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients (and their sunna (sunnatu)) has already passed.”

Qur’an 8:38


“They do not believe in it, and indeed the way (sunnatu) of the former people has already passed.”

Qur’an 15:13


“(This is our) sunnata with regard to those of Our messengers whom We sent before you, and you shall not find a change in Our course (lisunnatina).”

Qur’an 17:77


“And nothing prevents men from believing when the guidance comes to them, and from asking forgiveness of their Lord, except that what happened (sunnatu) to the ancients should overtake them, or that the chastisement should come face to face with them.”

Qur’an 18:55


“There is no harm in the Prophet doing that which Allah has ordained for him; such has been the sunna of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and the command of Allah is a decree that is made absolute.”

Qur’an 33:38


“(In) behaving proudly in the land and in planning evil; and the evil plans shall not beset any save the authors of it. Then should they wait for aught except the sunna of the former people? For you shall not find any alteration in the sunna of Allah; and you shall not find any change in the course of Allah.”

Qur’an 35:43


“But their belief was not going to profit them when they had seen Our punishment; (this is) Allah's sunna, which has indeed obtained in the matter of His servants, and there the unbelievers are lost.”

Qur’an 40:85


“Such has been the sunna of Allah that has indeed run before, and you shall not find a change in Allah's sunna.”

Qur’an 48:23




8:38 Qul lillatheena kafaroo in yantahooyughfar lahum ma qad salafa wa-in yaAAoodoo faqad madatsunnatu al-awwaleena


15:13 La yu/minoona bihi waqad khalatsunnatu al-awwaleena


17:77 Sunnata man qad arsalna qablaka minrusulina wala tajidu lisunnatina tahweelan


18:55 Wama manaAAa alnnasa anyu/minoo ith jaahumu alhuda wayastaghfiroorabbahum illa an ta/tiyahum sunnatu al-awwaleena awya/tiyahumu alAAathabu qubulan


33:38 Ma kana AAala alnnabiyyimin harajin feema farada Allahu lahusunnata Allahi fee allatheena khalaw min qablu wakanaamru Allahi qadaran maqdooran33:62; 33:62 Sunnata Allahi fee allatheenakhalaw min qablu walan tajida lisunnati Allahi tabdeelan


35:43 Istikbaran fee al-ardi wamakraalssayyi-i wala yaheequ almakru alssayyi-oilla bi-ahlihi fahal yanthuroona illasunnata al-awwaleena falan tajida lisunnati Allahitabdeelan walan tajida lisunnati Allahi tahweelan


40:85 Falam yaku yanfaAAuhum eemanuhum lammaraaw ba/sana sunnata Allahi allatee qad khalat feeAAibadihi wakhasira hunalika alkafiroona


48:23 Sunnata Allahi allatee qad khalat minqablu walan tajida lisunnati Allahi tabdeelan



"Sunna al-awwaleena" is the "way of the former people" and Sunnata Allah is the "Way of God"

 
Lily I am sorry that is a false rendition. The only times that "Hadith" and "Sunna" are mentioned in the Qur'an is as follows:


The false rendition is yours actually.. the verses are there for all to see. Islam can only be practiced by following the Quran and Sunnah, [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"So take whatever the Messenger gives you and keep away from what he forbids you." [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](Surah Al-Hashr 59:7)
[/FONT]if you know of another way, then you're not Muslim. It is as simple as that!

all the best
[/FONT]
 
Thus far Sunnism is un-Islamic.



And you've just called more than a billion muslims kaaffir.

May Allah SWT and everyone who read this be witness for your claim during the day of the judgement. Amiin.
 
Thus far Sunnism is un-Islamic.

Ha... Did you really just call over 90% of all Muslims (Well, closer to 100% since I think Shia's should be included), "un-Islamic"? So in other words, you're saying that YOU are Muslim, and close to 2 billion people who claim to be Muslim are not... Imams Hanifah, Shafi, Malik, and Hanbal were wrong... All our scholars are wrong... The Companions (who used the Prophet's example) are wrong... 1400 years of scholarship is completely wrong... And it's just you, and your tiny club of Quran only people, who are right? You have no scholarly backing whatsoever, and yet you still have the audacity to come here, tell us we're all wrong, and then give us your own tafsir of the Quran (well, and a tafsir of the English translation anyway...) when you're not even close to being qualified? Really?

I can't believe the ego on this guy. :p
 
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:sl:

These people don't deserve the time to get a reply because:

1) They are a fringe, they will never penetrate the framework of Islamic jurisprudence (Usul al-Fiqh).
2) They are ignorant of the language of the Qur'an - sarf, nahw, balagha and how the Qur'an operates.
3) Their hearts are diseased.
4) They are hypocrites, they are simply repeating what the hypocrites said in Madinah at the time of the Prophet (saw) to his face. They are doing exactly what the hypocrites in Madinah did by taking the Qur'an and ignoring the Messenger (saw). Allaah has already talked about them in the Qur'an. Read below:

وإذا قيل لهم لا تفسدوا في الأرض قالوا إنما نحن مصلحون ألا إنهم هم المفسدون ولكن لا يشعرون وإذا قيل لهم آمنوا كما آمن الناس قالوا أنؤمن كما آمن السفهاء ألا إنهم هم السفهاء ولكن لا يعلمون

[And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers." Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters, but they perceive [it] not. And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know [it] not.] 2:11-13

Now go and read his first post, his thread title and argument. See the correlation?

We seek refuge in Allaah from such clear misguidance.
 
These people don't deserve the time to get a reply because:


That is indeed true.. but I really couldn't help myself when he wrote he wants proof from the Quran.. It is as if they've never opened the book and frankly it took me less than 40 seconds..

:w:
 
This is what is going to get Islam in deep trouble when you have people like this coming in and trying to change everything. It already ripped Christianity apart with our protestant reformation and now you want to mess Islam up too? Look at where reform got Christianity. Divided and billions of people confused about what is right and what isn't because everyone thinks they're right.

Please note that I haven't yet read your thoughts as I am not well versed yet in the intricacies of Islam but I am learning. I am not a Muslim but I am studying the religion. While I commend you for trying to make sure it's important that Muslims continue to read and memorize and live by the Koran, I think it's dangerous to try and disregard the Sunnah and Hadith as nothing. They're not the words of the one true God but I think they are helpful to keeping Muslims on track. Why would you want to change it and call Sunnis misguided? That's not helpful. That's not love. It's just a way to create trouble and turn non-Muslims away from Islam. One of the reasons why people leave Christianity is because they see Islam as more unified but when you start to chisel cracks into it like this, the base of it will falter and crumble into a thousand pieces. Is that what you want?
 
There are still replies to the other Qur’anic verses. Everyone here just needs to have the courage to read them. None of you seems to recognise that I am not trying to change everything. I said “thus far Sunnism is unIslamic”. Thus far according to the logic and according to the Qur’an. May Allah (SWT) be your witness.

Do you realise that if you follow just one false hadith, you are technically a hypocrite?


And who is more unjust than one who forges a lie against Allah, or gives the lie to the truth when it has come to him? Will not in hell be the abode of the unbelievers?”

Qur’an 29:68


Reply to the distortion of al-Hasr 7 (I can of course finish them one by one):



“They ask you about the windfalls. Say: The windfalls are for Allah and the Messenger. So be careful of [your duty to] Allah and set aright matters of your difference, and obey Allah and His Messenger if you are believers.”

8:1


Since we know that the spoils are not all entirely for Muhammad (SAW) individually and that they are not all entirely for Allah (SWT) individually (
8:41, 8:69), “Allah and the Messenger” cannot reasonably refer to Allah (SWT) represented by the Qur’an plus Muhammad (SAW) represented by “his sunna”. The ayat are stating that the victory was in the name of Allah SWT and that the disposal of windfalls is the privilege of Allah through His Messenger (i.e. the people should abide by the decision of “Allah and the Messenger”). Now just as in 9:1-3 (conceptually), we know that Allah (SWT) did not consult Muhammad (SAW) regarding the disposal of spoils. Therefore “Allah and the Messenger” refers to the will of Allah (SWT) as presented in the Qur’an. Muhammad (SAW) will implement the order by allowing and prohibiting the items according to the will of Allah (SWT) and hence circumstance (in this case they were weak) (8:41
, 8:66). This verdict is shown in 8:41, consistent with 59:7 where the spoils are also to go to the orphans and the needy etc. (although people are still expected to spend benevolently (i.e. give charity) (8:3)):

“What Allah has bestowed on His Messenger [and taken away] from the people of the townships,- belongs to Allah,- to His Messenger and to kindred and orphans, the needy and the wayfarer; In order that it may not [merely] make a circuit between the wealthy among you. So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear Allah; for Allah is strict in Punishment.”

59:7

As we see, the spoils are restored to the Messenger (by the decree of Allah (SWT)) so that he can distribute it according to the Will of Allah (SWT). For this reason we are ordered to take what he gives us and forsake what he withholds (according to Allah’s (SWT) criterion/verdict by which he decides (i.e. abides)). This is an example of the Messenger judging by the Qur’an (
5:43
-50). Community leaders are expected to do this too.


“Those only are believers whose hearts become full of fear when Allah is mentioned, and when His communications are recited to them they increase them in faith, and in their Lord do they trust.”

8:22



Confirming that ayah 1 is a Qur’anic verdict.



Now you wonder why Islam is in such bad shape - it is because you are close-minded to anything outside of your club.

Peace.
 
Response to 4:59


“O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.”

59


If Allah (SWT) is represented by the Qur’an and the Messenger by his interpretation of the Qur’an (ahadith), is Islam a religion authored by at least three different sources? However, after consulting those in authority we are instructed to refer disagreements to Allah and His Messenger. Thus, “Obey Allah and obey the Messenger” must necessarily reference one source. For further information on ayat 59-65, see the notes for 2:124. See also 42:38 for an ayah involving community consultation. Also remember it was necessary for Allah (SWT) to specify “obey the Messenger” so that people would know how to obey Allah (SWT) (see 4:80 and notes). It is especially applicable since the Qur’an records Allah’s (SWT) mandate for His Messenger to pass on orders (e.g. beginning ayat with “Say:”). There were at the time more ayat to come, and thus people were instructed (to be ready) to obey them (confirmed by 16:1). See also the notes for
3:31-32. No-one at the time had a paperback Qur’an, thus of course it was necessary to follow Muhammad (SAW).
 
This is what is going to get Islam in deep trouble when you have people like this coming in and trying to change everything. It already ripped Christianity apart with our protestant reformation and now you want to mess Islam up too? Look at where reform got Christianity. Divided and billions of people confused about what is right and what isn't because everyone thinks they're right. Please note that I haven't yet read your thoughts as I am not well versed yet in the intricacies of Islam but I am learning. I am not a Muslim but I am studying the religion. While I commend you for trying to make sure it's important that Muslims continue to read and memorize and live by the Koran, I think it's dangerous to try and disregard the Sunnah and Hadith as nothing. They're not the words of the one true God but I think they are helpful to keeping Muslims on track. Why would you want to change it and call Sunnis misguided? That's not helpful. That's not love. It's just a way to create trouble and turn non-Muslims away from Islam. One of the reasons why people leave Christianity is because they see Islam as more unified but when you start to chisel cracks into it like this, the base of it will falter and crumble into a thousand pieces. Is that what you want?

Islam is so incredibly preserved thank God, and thereafter to the painstaking job of our early scholars and ultimately Allah swt gave a divine promise that it will be preserved. Thus any deviation that occurs isn't out of ignorance but deliberation especially that sectarianism is spoken so harshly of in the Quran itself.. and such people must be fought with logic and proper sources and I suspect that they don't understand what they're quoting because the answer is right before their eyes yet they choose their own renditions.. So I wouldn't worry about what kind of misguidance he'd cause as ultimately they only misguide themselves and the ignorant. Anyone interested in islam always does proper research and not go after some nameless heathens.

I have to tell you that there is already a hadith about these Quranites millenniums ago..
"I have been given the Qur'an and something similar to it besides it. Yet a time will come when a man leaning on his couch will say 'follow the Qur'an only; what you find in it permissible, take as permissible, and what you find as forbidden, take as forbidden'. But verily what the Messenger of Allaah Sall Allahu alaihi wa sallam has forbidden is like what Allaah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala has forbidden".



So Anyone remotely studied in Islam would already know what to beware of but it is amazing that all the prophecies of the prophet PBUH are unfolding one by one.. which in many regards these people wouldn't know of because they reject Sunnah!

peace
 
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