Tyrion
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^ Yeah, try answering some of the earlier posts por favor. I'm interested in seeing how you respond...
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Islam Needs to "Reform"
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^ Yeah, try answering some of the earlier posts por favor. I'm interested in seeing how you respond...
Why did I receive a warning as a PM? I laughed. Someone who does not agree will get kicked out (of the club that makes zero sense). Also why does everyone misquote me? I said the Sunnis here (i.e. the ones who have responded) are arrogant. I am called a hypocrite because I quote the Qur'an concerning zakat (the person was annoyed because a pet point was tarnished!) How many ahadith did scholars have to stitch together to get the modern prayer (in some prayers Muhammad (SAW) prayed 11 so as I said his was simply an example and the prayer is quite explicit if you read my salat article... Also prayer was passed down from Ibrahim (SAW) so no-one can prove that Raka are actually necessary. The Qur'an is the only Revelation necessary for guidance:
"Surely this Quran guides to that which is most upright and gives good news to the believers who do good that they shall have a great reward."
Qur'an 17:9
So whose group is more comical? And what is the point of being Muslim? Is it so you can have an excuse to follow a new "Sunna" which is prohibited by your Holy Book, or is it so you can do good for the world?
I am asked who are these "sunnis" who tell everyone what to do?? Ever heard of the Taliban for example? Sunni scholars? It is not just Sunnis but please do not ask stupid questions and ask me to answer them as if they are a challenge. I am not sure what spectacular points have been brought up so far but if they are as good as "what about prayer" then the time it takes finding them will be made up for the time saved in answering them instead of awaiting people's reply to the Qur'an.
Peace.
"Surely this Quran guides to that which is most upright and gives good news to the believers who do good that they shall have a great reward."
Qur'an 17:9
So whose group is more comical? And what is the point of being Muslim? Is it so you can have an excuse to follow a new "Sunna" which is prohibited by your Holy Book, or is it so you can do good for the world?
I am asked who are these "sunnis" who tell everyone what to do?? Ever heard of the Taliban for example? Sunni scholars? It is not just Sunnis but please do not ask stupid questions and ask me to answer them as if they are a challenge. I am not sure what spectacular points have been brought up so far but if they are as good as "what about prayer" then the time it takes finding them will be made up for the time saved in answering them instead of awaiting people's reply to the Qur'an.
Peace.
Yes the problem is that people take quotations from ahadith out of context. E.g. if a companion calls another an idiot for ignoraning raka then that person's opinion is accepted (because that person had the same attitude!). No-one can answer the Qur'an's challenge to produce something like it so they just declare without proof that the Prophet (SAW) had "the Qur'an and something like it". ?? What about the ahadith which prohibit the writing of ahadith in his time? Yet people try to prove that ahadith were written in his time (a poor attempt by Bassam Zawadi) which proves nothing except that people wrote things in his time. Abu Harairah the great liar is one of the most cherished sources of Islam for Sunnis. Bassam Zawadi's rebuttal is a puff (i.e. "because he said so").
If any one of you accepts as LAW (which you do yet you claim that they are not equal to the Qur'an) a lie, he or she is a hypocrite, no question:
"And who is more unjust than one who forges a lie against Allah, or gives the lie to the truth when it has come to him? Will not in hell be the abode of the unbelievers?"
Qur'an 29:68
The five pillars are in the Qur'an yet still when the Qur'an asks you which hadith you follow you enshrine Bukhari and Muslim etc. as a second source of religious law. You make the Prophet's tomb a second Sacred Mosque (?)
"It is not meet for a mortal that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and prophethood, then he should say to men: Be my servants rather than Allah's; but rather [he would say]: Be worshippers of the Lord because of your teaching the Book and your reading [it yourselves].
106
Most believers are also idol-worshippers, though they may not perceive.
“Surely this Islam is your religion, one religion (only), and I am your Lord, therefore serve Me. And they broke their religion (into sects) between them: to Us shall all come back.”
92-93
The Qur’an is the truth (2:40-42, 2:91, 2:119, 2:147, 2:176, 5:48, 16:102). See 10:32-33 and the notes. The Qur’an is the sole guidance (2:63, 2:91, 2:176, 6:19, 6:114-115, 6:157, 7:144-147, 7:169-171, 12:111, 18:27, 21:45, 39:23, 45:6 etc.). Therefore those who introduce new sources of religious law are innovating and diverting Islam. All sects are forbidden and unnecessary.
I am saying you have very little in the way of logic to support you. But you only ignore and label. That is fine, but do not pretend to be secure.
Peace.
If any one of you accepts as LAW (which you do yet you claim that they are not equal to the Qur'an) a lie, he or she is a hypocrite, no question:
"And who is more unjust than one who forges a lie against Allah, or gives the lie to the truth when it has come to him? Will not in hell be the abode of the unbelievers?"
Qur'an 29:68
The five pillars are in the Qur'an yet still when the Qur'an asks you which hadith you follow you enshrine Bukhari and Muslim etc. as a second source of religious law. You make the Prophet's tomb a second Sacred Mosque (?)
"It is not meet for a mortal that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and prophethood, then he should say to men: Be my servants rather than Allah's; but rather [he would say]: Be worshippers of the Lord because of your teaching the Book and your reading [it yourselves].
80. And neither would he enjoin you that you should take the angels and the prophets for lords; what! would he enjoin you with unbelief after you are Muslims?
"
Qur'an 3:79-80
"Say: What thing is the weightiest in testimony? Say: Allah is witness between you and me; and this Quran has been revealed to me that with it I may warn you and whomsoever it reaches. Do you really bear witness that there are other gods with Allah? Say: I do not bear witness. Say: He is only one Allah, and surely I am clear of that which you set up [with Him]."
Qur'an 6:19
“And most of them do not believe in Allah without associating others [with Him].”Qur'an 3:79-80
"Say: What thing is the weightiest in testimony? Say: Allah is witness between you and me; and this Quran has been revealed to me that with it I may warn you and whomsoever it reaches. Do you really bear witness that there are other gods with Allah? Say: I do not bear witness. Say: He is only one Allah, and surely I am clear of that which you set up [with Him]."
Qur'an 6:19
106
Most believers are also idol-worshippers, though they may not perceive.
92-93
The Qur’an is the truth (2:40-42, 2:91, 2:119, 2:147, 2:176, 5:48, 16:102). See 10:32-33 and the notes. The Qur’an is the sole guidance (2:63, 2:91, 2:176, 6:19, 6:114-115, 6:157, 7:144-147, 7:169-171, 12:111, 18:27, 21:45, 39:23, 45:6 etc.). Therefore those who introduce new sources of religious law are innovating and diverting Islam. All sects are forbidden and unnecessary.
I am saying you have very little in the way of logic to support you. But you only ignore and label. That is fine, but do not pretend to be secure.
Peace.
Muhaba
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Allah says in the Quran that he sent the Prophet (SAW) to explain what Allah revealed (the Quran). additionally Allah says that we should obey the Prophet (SAW), that he is the best example for us, that if we love Allah then we should obey the Prophet (SAW) and then Allah will love us. All such verses prove that we have to follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (SAW).
“And when Allah made a covenant with those who were given the Book: You shall certainly make it known to men and you shall not hide it; but they cast it behind their backs and took a small price for it; so evil is that which they buy.”
3:187
The word for “make it known” (proclaim) is “litubayyena”. This is similar to the word used for “proclaim” in 16:44:
“With clear arguments and scriptures; and We have revealed to you the Reminder that you may proclaim to men what has been revealed to them, and that haply they may reflect.”
However, some scholars opted the irrelevant and alternate meaning for the word in 16:44 by claiming that it means “explain”. If the Qur’an is a clear Message explained by Allah (SWT) (16:44!, 75:19) then it is impossible for someone to claim that ayah 44 of sura 16 tells Muhammad (SAW) to explain it. He was only a plain warner (7:184). This argument also applies to 16:64.
Muhammad (SAW) was a good example for those who REMEMBER ALLAH (33:21). The context is war and his example is good certainly compared to the other behaviour described in the surrounding verses. Also, his being a "good example" (even though we know it applies only to remembrance and thus following Qur'an) does not make it compulsory but as I said the ahadith provide examples. Why should ahadith not be selected based on their cohesion with the Qur'an (which is cohesive with humanity)? Ibrahim (SAW) was also a good example for a specific context (60:4).
Peace.
3:187
The word for “make it known” (proclaim) is “litubayyena”. This is similar to the word used for “proclaim” in 16:44:
“With clear arguments and scriptures; and We have revealed to you the Reminder that you may proclaim to men what has been revealed to them, and that haply they may reflect.”
However, some scholars opted the irrelevant and alternate meaning for the word in 16:44 by claiming that it means “explain”. If the Qur’an is a clear Message explained by Allah (SWT) (16:44!, 75:19) then it is impossible for someone to claim that ayah 44 of sura 16 tells Muhammad (SAW) to explain it. He was only a plain warner (7:184). This argument also applies to 16:64.
Muhammad (SAW) was a good example for those who REMEMBER ALLAH (33:21). The context is war and his example is good certainly compared to the other behaviour described in the surrounding verses. Also, his being a "good example" (even though we know it applies only to remembrance and thus following Qur'an) does not make it compulsory but as I said the ahadith provide examples. Why should ahadith not be selected based on their cohesion with the Qur'an (which is cohesive with humanity)? Ibrahim (SAW) was also a good example for a specific context (60:4).
Peace.
Ramadhan
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Can you address my question?
You propose that zakat should be made progressive, but where in the qur'an it is said zakat is progressive?
I am asking the question to highlight how hypocrite you are. You claim sunnis are unislamic (which effectively call us all kafir) for following something that is not in the qur'an, and yet, here you are at least in the issue of zakat advocating something that is not in the qur'an.
This is a conclusive evidence how your knowledge in Islam very shallow. either that or you are deceiving.
Please be specific and tell us from the hadith what kind of prayer when prophet Muhammad (saw) did the 11 rakaat? and how it was done and when?
Do not deceive and make it as if the prophet (saw) prayed 11 rakaat as one of the 5 fard shalah. Did the hadith say that prophet Muhammad SAW pray shalah fajr 11 rakaat?
Be honest.
Now, answer my question that you have not answered:
You claim that the only revelation prophet Muhammad SAW received was the Qur'an, then tell me how did prophet Muhammad performed shalah the way it is?
This is non sensical.
Can you be a bit more coherent?
Another lie. I shouldn't expect better from a hypocrite.
First, who wants an excuse?
second, what new "sunna" are you talking about?
third, what is prohibited by "my holy book"? (IF you are a muslim, isnt my holy book the same as yours. I am starting to have severe doubts as to who you actually are).
You were the one who repeatedly used "sunnis", not any of us. It's clear that you are here only to cause division.
Then you need to use specifics, and not "sunnis". I dont know much about the taliban, and I am not following what the talibans say, I am following qur'an and sunnah. So again, this example is a big fail.
What about sunni scholars?
tell me, how do you understand the qur'an? How would you know that a certain verse was revealed during certain situation and apply to certain specific if not for the sunni scholars that you have been trashing?
You really are laughable.
If you think the answer is simple, then why not answering them here?
Ramadhan
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You have just accused a beloved companion of the prophet Muhammad SAW as a great liar.
May Allah SWT and all of us who read this be witness against your slander in the day of judgement. Amiin.
I think it is now safe to say we know who you are.
BTW, did you realize that you've just trashed one of shahabas who are granted place in jannah:
So those who emigrated and were driven out of their homes, who suffered in My cause, who fight and were slain – (will most certainly blot out from them their iniquities, and admit them into gardens beneath which rivers flow. A reward from Allah; and with Allah is the best of ‘reward (Surah Aal-`Imran: 19.5)
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جوري
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You aren't doing what everyone is doing.. though God is with the majority -- tell me why are you not at peace with your heretical sect? Clearly your argument doesn't hold water even with little children-- yet you seem convinced that your heterodox renditions are accurate. Islam goes with fitrah/nature and what you bring goes against it... no one converts into Islam and becomes a 'Quranite' you must actually actively join a deviant sect and convince yourself that the Quran denotes other than what is clearly patent to everyone and though everyone has come to you with a mountain of evidence against what you utter, none Muslims even can see things more clearly than you, and yet there you're vehemently persistent, exasperated, mortally wounded though we've collectively treated you with kid gloves.. Is saving face more important to you than being accurate? If it is the case then I truly pity you and you're to be pitied twice. For you're not a Muslim, you've not convinced yourself that your brand of Islam is remotely accurate, and you've enjoyed the life of a kaffir. Second only to nuns your life is so pitiful!
all the best
The points Mesmorial made hasn't been refuted by any one of you. Instead you ALL get aggresive and counter question the points he has made. Why won't any of you have the guts to refute anything he has said by the Qur'an? That's what you can't do. I was on another forum and someone actually said "you should learn from a scholar instead of using your brain". It seems that you all are incapable of critical thinking.
Ramadhan
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What points?
all he did has been pasting series of translations of qur'an verses while making no point and making no argument.
and after copy pasting the verses, he went on to trash all of us sunnis and the shahaba.
In any case, he is the one who has not answered all of our simple questions.
Also, I see that in the other thread you have not answered br. Muraad's questions for you.
Either you cannot read or you are a liar.
sis. Lily and br. Muraad on page 1 have addressed him using qur'an verses.
Perseveranze
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Asalaamu Alaikum,
Quran only Muslims? Just an excuse, I've heard of people be "Quran only" Muslims and they use it as an excuse to drink Alcohol and not cover up in public. It's an aweful innovation.
Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)'s Ummah is growing and will continue to grow.
Quran only Muslims? Just an excuse, I've heard of people be "Quran only" Muslims and they use it as an excuse to drink Alcohol and not cover up in public. It's an aweful innovation.
Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)'s Ummah is growing and will continue to grow.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
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Look at your hypocrisy coming forth from your own words. You call a Companion of the Prophet (saw) a liar, when Allaah has praised him and said He is pleased with him (9:100) in the very same Qur'an you claim you believe in. Of course you don't believe in the Qur'an, because had you believed in it, you would not have called a liar one who Allaah praised in the Qur'an. But you are a liar as the hypocrites are liars and Allaah himself has borne witness to the fact that you are a liar. والله يشهد إن المنافقين لكاذبون
I'm glad you're exposing your disbelief yourself, that saves everyone here much time in refuting you. Thank you for showing your true face.
It's ok though, every single hadeeth rejector that we've had on this forum always gets caught in a lie and self contradiction. You're not the first.
Ali Mujahidin
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To say that Islam needs to reform is to say that Islam is not complete. It is the same as saying that Allah does not know everything, which is a notion totally at odds with the very concept of Allah. Just because you cannot find the answer in Islam does not mean the answer is not there. All it means is that you did not know where to look. Or you are looking with your eyes shut tight and your heart closed to the truth.
Muhaba
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why are you so against hadith? Allah sent the Prophet (SAW) so that he would be a guide for us and we would follow his way (sunnah). if only the Quraan was necessary, Allah could have just have sent the Book and not the Prophet.
there are many places in the Quran where we are told to obey and follow the Prophet SAW, as i said in my previous post which you so conveniently ignored. consider also what the previous messengers say to their nations about following them (the messengers). See Surah Ash-Shu'ara (26 chapter) as an example, where many of the messengers tell their nations to obey them. and obeying messengers means to obey what the messenger is telling us to do, that is the hadith and sunnah of the Prophet (SAW).
The people of Noah denied the messengers
When their brother Noah said to them, "Will you not fear Allah ?
Indeed, I am to you a trustworthy messenger.
So fear Allah and obey me.
And I do not ask you for it any payment. My payment is only from the Lord of the worlds.
So fear Allah and obey me."(26:106-110)
there are many places in the Quran where we are told to obey and follow the Prophet SAW, as i said in my previous post which you so conveniently ignored. consider also what the previous messengers say to their nations about following them (the messengers). See Surah Ash-Shu'ara (26 chapter) as an example, where many of the messengers tell their nations to obey them. and obeying messengers means to obey what the messenger is telling us to do, that is the hadith and sunnah of the Prophet (SAW).
The people of Noah denied the messengers
When their brother Noah said to them, "Will you not fear Allah ?
Indeed, I am to you a trustworthy messenger.
So fear Allah and obey me.
And I do not ask you for it any payment. My payment is only from the Lord of the worlds.
So fear Allah and obey me."(26:106-110)
Peace Muhaba;
I am not so against ahadith. My idea is simply to accept ahadith based on their compatibility with the Qur'an, and not to hold it obligatory above a personal level. If we return to the Message, Islam will unite once more.
5-Minute Proof:
“Obey Allah and obey the Messenger” = “Obey the ordinance of Allah (SWT) through Muhammad (SAW)”:
“O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.”
Qur’an 4:59
If Allah (SWT) is represented by the Qur’an and the Messenger by his interpretation of the Qur’an (ahadith), is Islam a religion authored by at least three different sources? Notice that after consulting those in authority we are instructed to refer disagreements to “Allah and His Messenger”. Thus, “Obey Allah and obey the Messenger” must necessarily reference one source (if scholars are to judge by the Qur’an (5:48), then they are already obeying “Allah and His Messenger” and therefore their mention is redundant). “Those in authority” are for example people capable of reacting to security situations (see 8:43).
It has been conclusively proven that the phrase “obey Allah and Obey the Messenger” means “obey the ordinance of Allah (SWT) via Muhammad (SAW). It does not say to follow ahadith. According to 4:65, Messengers must make certain decisions when it is necessary to do so (i.e. concerning matters of disagreement). When the final decision is made (in keeping with the Qur’an and the way of Allah (SWT)), it should be followed. Consultation may be required (3:159, 60:12) and is recommended (3:159, 42:38). Other general decisions and responsibilities of leadership concern following and conveying the Message. Otherwise his decisions are obviously contextual to time.
Also remember it was necessary for Allah (SWT) to specify “obey the Messenger” so that people would know how to obey Allah (SWT) (see 4:80 and notes). It is especially applicable since the Qur’an records Allah’s (SWT) mandate for His Messenger to pass on orders (e.g. beginning ayat with “Say:”). There were at the time more ayat to come, and thus people were instructed (to be ready) to obey them (confirmed by 16:1). See also the notes for 3:31-32. No-one at the time had a paperback Qur’an, thus of course it was necessary to follow Muhammad (SAW).
“O you who believe! obey Allah and His Messenger and do not turn back from Him while you hear.”
The phrase “while you hear” suggests that to obey Allah and His Messenger is to obey the Revelation. See 24:51:
“The response of the believers, when they are invited to Allah and His Messenger that he may judge between them, is only to say: We hear and we obey; and these it is that are the successful.”
If “Allah and His Messenger” means that Muhammad (SAW) is to judge between people, this judgement must certainly be based on the Qur’an since Allah (SWT) does not consult Muhammad (SAW) regarding decision-making. The first ayah of sura 9 declares that an ultimatum is issued from Allah (SWT) and His Messenger. We know that the verses about the ultimatum are entirely from Allah (SWT) because He does not consult Muhammad about the ultimatum. Muhammad’s (SAW) only mission was to deliver Allah’s (SWT) Message (16:35, 24:54). Thus, the reason that Allah (SWT) included the Messenger in 9:1 is because he participated as deliverer of the ultimatum. Similarly, because people received Allah’s (SWT) Message through Messengers, they were ordered to obey the Messengers. This is repeated in 9:3. We also know that the Qur’an is a permanent messenger (65:11), and that the Qur’an is a reminder and deliverer of good news (41:4, 11:2). What Muhammad (SAW) decides as a Messenger of religious teaching is what Allah (SWT) decides (33:36). See (notes for) 4:59 to sufficiently substantiate these claims.
Remember it was clearer at the time (amongst the people) for the Qur’an to say “Obey Allah and His Messenger” than to simply say “Obey Allah” or “Obey what Muhammad follows”. The first is confusing without needing to explain why, and the second is silly because Muhammad (SAW) was divulging the Qur’an and thus he might be following himself! It would be redundant to say “Obey what the Messenger follows” because the Message was being delivered by a person, and therefore we have to obey that person anyway (again he might be following himself). The Qur’an might have said “Obey the Message” but then luckily Muhammad (SAW) is instructed to do only that in 5:43-50 and many other places (e.g. 7:203, 10:15. The Qur’an is the sole guidance (2:63, 2:91, 2:176, 6:19, 6:114-115, 6:157, 7:144-147, 7:169-171, 12:111, 18:27, 21:45, 39:23, 45:6 etc.)). It is after all necessary to know exactly where that Message is coming from (saying “Messenger” instead of “Message” clarifies this). It is especially applicable since the Qur’an records Allah’s (SWT) mandate for His Messenger to pass on orders (e.g. beginning ayat with “Say:”). No-one at the time had a paperback Qur’an, thus of course it was necessary to follow Muhammad (SAW). Ayat such as 7:58 explain that the Qur’an repeats ayat to help us understand it.
“And when Ibrahim said: My Lord! make this city secure, and save me and my sons from worshipping idols. My Lord! surely they have led many men astray; then whoever follows me, he is surely of me, and whoever disobeys me, Thou surely art Forgiving, Merciful.”
35-36
Following and obeying the Messengers/Prophets means following their example in obeying Allah (SWT) and remembering Him. This is quite clear.
“And warn people of the day when the chastisement shall come to them, then those who were unjust will say: O our Lord! respite us to a near term, [so] we shall respond to THY CALL and follow the messengers. What! did you not swear before [that] there will be no passing away for you!”
44
Following and obeying the Messengers/Prophets means following their example in obeying Allah (SWT) and remembering Him.
Again I simply say we should get the ahadith into perspective. If we follow one single false one we are hypocrites. We get around the strange ahadith by not deeming them obligatory, and such it should be with anything since Islam is detailed by the Qur'an. Ahadith are just history, true or false, good examples or bad examples. People can follow what they wish provided Muslims stand up for the true values of the Message.
Peace.
I am not so against ahadith. My idea is simply to accept ahadith based on their compatibility with the Qur'an, and not to hold it obligatory above a personal level. If we return to the Message, Islam will unite once more.
5-Minute Proof:
“Obey Allah and obey the Messenger” = “Obey the ordinance of Allah (SWT) through Muhammad (SAW)”:
“O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.”
Qur’an 4:59
If Allah (SWT) is represented by the Qur’an and the Messenger by his interpretation of the Qur’an (ahadith), is Islam a religion authored by at least three different sources? Notice that after consulting those in authority we are instructed to refer disagreements to “Allah and His Messenger”. Thus, “Obey Allah and obey the Messenger” must necessarily reference one source (if scholars are to judge by the Qur’an (5:48), then they are already obeying “Allah and His Messenger” and therefore their mention is redundant). “Those in authority” are for example people capable of reacting to security situations (see 8:43).
It has been conclusively proven that the phrase “obey Allah and Obey the Messenger” means “obey the ordinance of Allah (SWT) via Muhammad (SAW). It does not say to follow ahadith. According to 4:65, Messengers must make certain decisions when it is necessary to do so (i.e. concerning matters of disagreement). When the final decision is made (in keeping with the Qur’an and the way of Allah (SWT)), it should be followed. Consultation may be required (3:159, 60:12) and is recommended (3:159, 42:38). Other general decisions and responsibilities of leadership concern following and conveying the Message. Otherwise his decisions are obviously contextual to time.
Also remember it was necessary for Allah (SWT) to specify “obey the Messenger” so that people would know how to obey Allah (SWT) (see 4:80 and notes). It is especially applicable since the Qur’an records Allah’s (SWT) mandate for His Messenger to pass on orders (e.g. beginning ayat with “Say:”). There were at the time more ayat to come, and thus people were instructed (to be ready) to obey them (confirmed by 16:1). See also the notes for 3:31-32. No-one at the time had a paperback Qur’an, thus of course it was necessary to follow Muhammad (SAW).
“O you who believe! obey Allah and His Messenger and do not turn back from Him while you hear.”
The phrase “while you hear” suggests that to obey Allah and His Messenger is to obey the Revelation. See 24:51:
“The response of the believers, when they are invited to Allah and His Messenger that he may judge between them, is only to say: We hear and we obey; and these it is that are the successful.”
If “Allah and His Messenger” means that Muhammad (SAW) is to judge between people, this judgement must certainly be based on the Qur’an since Allah (SWT) does not consult Muhammad (SAW) regarding decision-making. The first ayah of sura 9 declares that an ultimatum is issued from Allah (SWT) and His Messenger. We know that the verses about the ultimatum are entirely from Allah (SWT) because He does not consult Muhammad about the ultimatum. Muhammad’s (SAW) only mission was to deliver Allah’s (SWT) Message (16:35, 24:54). Thus, the reason that Allah (SWT) included the Messenger in 9:1 is because he participated as deliverer of the ultimatum. Similarly, because people received Allah’s (SWT) Message through Messengers, they were ordered to obey the Messengers. This is repeated in 9:3. We also know that the Qur’an is a permanent messenger (65:11), and that the Qur’an is a reminder and deliverer of good news (41:4, 11:2). What Muhammad (SAW) decides as a Messenger of religious teaching is what Allah (SWT) decides (33:36). See (notes for) 4:59 to sufficiently substantiate these claims.
Remember it was clearer at the time (amongst the people) for the Qur’an to say “Obey Allah and His Messenger” than to simply say “Obey Allah” or “Obey what Muhammad follows”. The first is confusing without needing to explain why, and the second is silly because Muhammad (SAW) was divulging the Qur’an and thus he might be following himself! It would be redundant to say “Obey what the Messenger follows” because the Message was being delivered by a person, and therefore we have to obey that person anyway (again he might be following himself). The Qur’an might have said “Obey the Message” but then luckily Muhammad (SAW) is instructed to do only that in 5:43-50 and many other places (e.g. 7:203, 10:15. The Qur’an is the sole guidance (2:63, 2:91, 2:176, 6:19, 6:114-115, 6:157, 7:144-147, 7:169-171, 12:111, 18:27, 21:45, 39:23, 45:6 etc.)). It is after all necessary to know exactly where that Message is coming from (saying “Messenger” instead of “Message” clarifies this). It is especially applicable since the Qur’an records Allah’s (SWT) mandate for His Messenger to pass on orders (e.g. beginning ayat with “Say:”). No-one at the time had a paperback Qur’an, thus of course it was necessary to follow Muhammad (SAW). Ayat such as 7:58 explain that the Qur’an repeats ayat to help us understand it.
“And when Ibrahim said: My Lord! make this city secure, and save me and my sons from worshipping idols. My Lord! surely they have led many men astray; then whoever follows me, he is surely of me, and whoever disobeys me, Thou surely art Forgiving, Merciful.”
35-36
Following and obeying the Messengers/Prophets means following their example in obeying Allah (SWT) and remembering Him. This is quite clear.
“And warn people of the day when the chastisement shall come to them, then those who were unjust will say: O our Lord! respite us to a near term, [so] we shall respond to THY CALL and follow the messengers. What! did you not swear before [that] there will be no passing away for you!”
44
Following and obeying the Messengers/Prophets means following their example in obeying Allah (SWT) and remembering Him.
Again I simply say we should get the ahadith into perspective. If we follow one single false one we are hypocrites. We get around the strange ahadith by not deeming them obligatory, and such it should be with anything since Islam is detailed by the Qur'an. Ahadith are just history, true or false, good examples or bad examples. People can follow what they wish provided Muslims stand up for the true values of the Message.
Peace.
Naidamar said:
"tell me, how do you understand the qur'an? How would you know that a certain verse was revealed during certain situation and apply to certain specific if not for the sunni scholars that you have been trashing?
You really are laughable.'
The Qur'an explains itself (75:19). I have read the Qur'an and I never found that understanding its values was inhibited by needing to know the context of every verse. The context was given (e.g. 9:29).
Peace.
"tell me, how do you understand the qur'an? How would you know that a certain verse was revealed during certain situation and apply to certain specific if not for the sunni scholars that you have been trashing?
You really are laughable.'
The Qur'an explains itself (75:19). I have read the Qur'an and I never found that understanding its values was inhibited by needing to know the context of every verse. The context was given (e.g. 9:29).
Peace.
Ali Mujahidin
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Let me put it this way:
If Allah had created man with the ability to understand the Quran directly, why did he send the Holy Prophet? Surely it cannot be that he had one prophet too many. I am interested in knowing how you can practice Islam without reference to the life and example of the Holy Prophet. Perhaps you think that you know better than the Holy Prophet? Or maybe you think you are more knowledgeable than the Sahabah? Or maybe you think you have some special ability that was not present in the Muslim scholars?
Myself, I am jahil and I am thankful that Allah had sent the Holy Prophet to be my guidance.
If Allah had created man with the ability to understand the Quran directly, why did he send the Holy Prophet? Surely it cannot be that he had one prophet too many. I am interested in knowing how you can practice Islam without reference to the life and example of the Holy Prophet. Perhaps you think that you know better than the Holy Prophet? Or maybe you think you are more knowledgeable than the Sahabah? Or maybe you think you have some special ability that was not present in the Muslim scholars?
Myself, I am jahil and I am thankful that Allah had sent the Holy Prophet to be my guidance.