Islam, the Middle Way in ALL aspects.

[Ramadhan]

Part of exercising sound judgement is knowing when and where to apply the mean. Lynx, the example you gave was an example of where not to apply the mean. But we can use it as an indication of where to apply the mean: Joe should receive adequate compensation for his shed, either tangible or monetary. By not demanding full compensation, Joe is exercising too little demand. By destroying Bill's shed in retaliation, Joe is exercising too much demand. Here, replacing the shed is the correct application of the mean, which forms the basis of ethical conduct.

Virtue ethics has a long and illustrious history in the East as well as the west. = )

In Islam, Justice is paramount.
Treat everyone and everything with just and fairness and do not transgress.
This is repeated many times in the Qur'an.

 

[Lynx]

Clearly the claim, were it seriously being made, that "Islam is the Middle Way in all aspects" is wrong; simply considering "good" and "evil" in that context is enough to demonstrate that. Here, though, the first post is a discussion piece with an exaggerated heading, not an attempt to support a serious philosophical claim.

There are people who think the middle path is always the right path. I know the OP is exaggerating the point of his OP; I only posted my response in the case that anyone actually thinks that 'the middle path is always the best path'. The thread was pushed further when Skye asked me to show how the middle path ISN'T the best path.

 

[جوري]

The thread was pushed further when Skye asked me to show how the middle path ISN'T the best path.

Correction, I asked you to prove it with regards to points raised, and not as a general rule..


all the best..

 

[Candle]

In Islam, Justice is paramount.
Treat everyone and everything with just and fairness and do not transgress.
This is repeated many times in the Qur'an.

Amen. Justice is a Godly virtue.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Is Islam is the "moderate mean" I can't even begin to imagine what the extreme could be. Seriously, how many ideologies are more conservative, dogmatic and authority driven than Islam? It is most definitely at one extreme, with homosexual hippie anarchist nudists at the other.

 

[جوري]

the opposite of hippie anarachist and nudists isn't Islam.. perhaps if you took a refresher course in second grade antonyms this would be more clear to you? certainly the antonym of 'gay' is 'depressed' not Muslim!

baby steps now and try again but do it on your own private time!

all the best

 

[Ramadhan]

Is Islam is the "moderate mean" I can't even begin to imagine what the extreme could be. Seriously, how many ideologies are more conservative, dogmatic and authority driven than Islam? It is most definitely at one extreme, with homosexual hippie anarchist nudists at the other.

It is interesting to note that you have been on this forum since 2006 and yet learned almost nothing about Islam.
I pity you, for this will weigh heavily against you in the judgement day.

 

[Alpha Dude]

i go to the weekly khutbah and i can't do anything but pick out fallacy after fallacy. Not so worthless if i say so myself.

With all due respect Lynx, that is nothing but arrogance on your part. If all you are going to do is condescend and not be willing to listen to anything people say because you over analyse and over intellectualise every single thing that is said, then you're not going to learn anything even if the wisdom was right in your face. You are willfully misguiding yourself out of arrogance.

 

[Pygoscelis]

It is interesting to note that you have been on this forum since 2006 and yet learned almost nothing about Islam.
I pity you, for this will weigh heavily against you in the judgement day.

No, you just don't like what i've learned about Islam. My views on Islam were actually formed entirely after my arrival here (though not just by this board). My original reason for coming here was actually to debunk a lot of the stuff that was being said about muslims after 9/11 and the anti-muslim hate it spawned.

But your adhoms and perceptions of my views aside, would you really dispute that Islam isn't extremely anti-homosexual, conservative (in dress and politic) and authority driven (you are given an entire code of life to adhere to in obedience to your creator). Doesn't Islam itself mean submit or surrender to power (Allah)? Can you really in all seriousness say this isn't extreme? Maybe you could argue its extreme in a good way, but I really don't think you'd have any ground to say its not extreme.

 

[marwen]

But your adhoms and perceptions of my views aside, would you really dispute that Islam isn't extremely anti-homosexual, conservative (in dress and politic) and authority driven (you are given an entire code of life to adhere to in obedience to your creator). Doesn't Islam itself mean submit or surrender to power (Allah)? Can you really in all seriousness say this isn't extreme? Maybe you could argue its extreme in a good way, but I really don't think you'd have any ground to say its not extreme.

You mentioned islamic position about homosexuality, dress, and about Allah. That's your viewpoint from your side (don't forget that). May be you are in the extremum, and anything moderated will seem to be so far from you, that you find it an extremum. If you were a homosexual, than a straight person will seem as an extremist in your eyes (that's just an example lol).
Your own definition of the mean in these issues (sexuality, dress, religion) will affect your position.

 

[Dagless]

No, you just don't like what i've learned about Islam. My views on Islam were actually formed entirely after my arrival here (though not just by this board). My original reason for coming here was actually to debunk a lot of the stuff that was being said about muslims after 9/11 and the anti-muslim hate it spawned.

That's a good reason (I don't mean that condescendingly, I just wanted to say it because there are those who don't have such open reasons).

But your adhoms and perceptions of my views aside, would you really dispute that Islam isn't extremely anti-homosexual, conservative (in dress and politic) and authority driven (you are given an entire code of life to adhere to in obedience to your creator). Doesn't Islam itself mean submit or surrender to power (Allah)? Can you really in all seriousness say this isn't extreme? Maybe you could argue its extreme in a good way, but I really don't think you'd have any ground to say its not extreme.

Being conservative does not mean you are extreme. Conservatism itself is not extremism, you would have to give examples of how it is extreme and what is in the middle and on the other end of the scale. I mean that for the whole religion, not just one thing. Submitting to God is the objective, I don't see how this can be considered extreme. What would be the middle point? Acknowledge a higher power and then don't submit to Him?? :S

 

[Pygoscelis]

No, the mean is a statistic, not an opinion. It means there is an equal number on either side of you. Do you really think there is an equal number of ideologies MORE anti-homosexual, conservative (in dress and politic) and authoritarian than Islam as there are ideologies less so? Being conservative doesn't mean you are extreme, it just means you are to one side of the mean rather than t he other (liberal). But Islam is not just a bit conservative. To take dress for one example, "no shirt, no shoes, no service" is a bit conservative, covering hair and head tp to avert the gazes of men is extreme. Just like bikinis in the mall is extreme. And some muslims are at the ultimate extreme, wearing full out masks (the opposite extreme being nudists). Its ok to admit you are well to one side of the norm - that isn't always a bad thing (it was well outside the norm to oppose slavery in the US south pre-civil war).

 

[جوري]

no religion, ideology or even laws of nature propose that homosexuality is a norm to even enter the equation for a Gaussian distribution.. you are in fact proposing something completely outside of the curve and try as you may to inject in there, it still doesn't belong..

you were recommended to go work on your antonyms.. but you certainly need to work on some common sense as well..
there is absolutely nothing about homosexuality or sex in general on this thread, why you see fit to pepper every topic with your deranged and debauched objections as if they were a point of interest for discussion at all is beyond me.. atheism is indeed a disgusting extreme with very zealot very immoral adherents that will not be happy as they see the entire world slide down the path of degeneracy!

 

[Dagless]

No, the mean is a statistic, not an opinion. It means there is an equal number on either side of you. Do you really think there is an equal number of ideologies MORE anti-homosexual, conservative (in dress and politic) and authoritarian than Islam as there are ideologies less so?

As I said you are picking and choosing very specific aspects and trying to label the whole religion. Most religions are against homosexuality, its just not enforced and is subject to change.

 

[جوري]

As I said you are picking and choosing very specific aspects and trying to label the whole religion. Most religions are against homosexuality, its just not enforced and is subject to change.

religions, ideologies and even nature.. what value is there for a non-reproductive futile cycle? the very laws of nature dictate that this act is a deviant abomination, if we are to cut all higher needs and go animalistic in keeping with atheist tenets!

 

[Candle]

No, the mean is a statistic, not an opinion. It means there is an equal number on either side of you. Do you really think there is an equal number of ideologies MORE anti-homosexual, conservative (in dress and politic) and authoritarian than Islam as there are ideologies less so?

No sir. The mean, here, is understood as Eudaimonia (Ευδαιμονια); Greek for well-being or happiness, which is accomplished by the Golden mean, a balance between excess and deficiency.

 

[Lynx]

Correction, I asked you to prove it with regards to points raised, and not as a general rule..


all the best..

Well, whether or not Islam is the middle path in all those things listed is irrelevant. the point of the fallacy, and the reason why it's a fallacy , is that just because something always lies in the middle path does not imply that it is a good thing.

..consider also that the lines drawn around the 'middle way' are apparently arbitrary. a lot of people would think islam is more on the extreme side based on their own principles and beliefs (pygo for instance). Pointless discussion unless you're already Muslim and think that Islam is the middle way.

 

[جوري]

Well, whether or not Islam is the middle path in all those things listed is irrelevant. the point of the fallacy, and the reason why it's a fallacy , is that just because something always lies in the middle path does not imply that it is a good thing.

I can't consider something fallacious by title rather than details, and as stated previous to avoid going in circles, I'll be waiting for you to discredit things described in the posts rather than dismissing the whole because someone used a title that you feel is erroneous!

..consider also that the lines drawn around the 'middle way' are apparently arbitrary. a lot of people would think islam is more on the extreme side based on their own principles and beliefs (pygo for instance). Pointless discussion unless you're already Muslim and think that Islam is the middle way.

Irrelevant (see above)

all the best

 

[Lynx]

I can't consider something fallacious by title rather than details, and as stated previous to avoid going in circles, I'll be waiting for you to discredit things described in the posts rather than dismissing the whole because someone used a title that you feel is erroneous!



all the best

the op is trying to say islam is the middle way in all aspects and that this is a good thing. my point was that being the middle way of everything does not necessarily mean it's a good thing for islam (in fact it leads to a fallacious conclusion). as for the question of whether Islam is actually in the middle way, one would have to show the borderlines between middle and extreme and so far they're arbitrarily drawn.

 

[جوري]

the op is trying to say islam is the middle way in all aspects and that this is a good thing. my point was that being the middle way of everything does not necessarily mean it's a good thing for islam (in fact it leads to a fallacious conclusion).

I understood the point the first time around, we are merely going in circles for your lack of desire to address that which you originally mocked under a specific title!

as for the question of whether Islam is actually in the middle way, one would have to show the borderlines between middle and extreme and so far they're arbitrarily drawn.

Who said they are arbitrarily drawn?

guess creating uncertainty is really what atheism is all about..