israel is attacking a whole city for one zionist criminal soldier!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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i hope everyone will live in peace ..jewish christian and muslim...this world is like a boat..if someone causes discord..it will sink..and everyone will drown

peace
 
Hamas should never have kidnapped they knew what would have happend.
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It was a dumb move. I have to say I am really quite nuetral to the affairs but many did predicted a disaster as a result of Hamas being voted in. If the UK voted in the BNP I would expect things to go wrong very quickly within the UK, the Palestinians knew Hamas are hell bent on destroying Israel and it seems it is more than happy to let the palestinians suffer to pursue this goal.

Let us not elude ourselves, Hamas could return that soldier with a snap of the finger!
 
Isaac said:
alpha dude how can you say that beause to anybody else what the germans did is not the same. why because this time its muslims that are having a holocaust againts them by the zionist regime. cut them of from society and any form of civilization to the point where they have nothing left to live for then you wonder why they blow themselves up in a bar full of off duty soldiers.
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4000 people in the last 10 years is hardly a holocaust.
 
Geronimo said:
4000 people in the last 10 years is hardly a holocaust.
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Each person is still a life! To compare it to the Holocaust is ridiculous, and I am sure israeli's have had many casualties to... but the point is that... the whole world looks at palestinians as a number... a political use... a way to destroy Israel. No one really cares about us.
 
abdmez said:
Each person is still a life! To compare it to the Holocaust is ridiculous, and I am sure israeli's have had many casualties to... but the point is that... the whole world looks at palestinians as a number... a political use... a way to destroy Israel. No one really cares about us.
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Oh I don't disagree. I'm just saying call it what it is a tragedy not a holocaust. I wonder if Israel left the West Bank and half of Jerusalem would people here be happy with that
 
heres a list of jewish people who are passionately anti zionist.

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/index.htm

Scottish Jews for Peace http://blog.sjjp.org.uk/

Colorado Jews for a just peace www.cjjp.org We believe that peace in Israel requires Israel's withdrawal from the Occupied Territories, establishment of a sovereign, viable Palestinian state, and strong security guarantees for both states

True Torah jews against zionism http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

True Torah Jews is a non-profit organization formed by a group of religious Orthodox Jews dedicated to informing the world and the American public and politicians in particular, that the idealogy of Zionism is in total opposition to the teachings of traditional Judaism.

In support of their position they have gathered quotes from many respected Rabbis.


Rabbis before World War I
Maimonides
Rabbi Yitzchok Aramah
The Maharal of Prague
Rabbi Avraham Galanti
Rabbi Bechaye
Rabbi Aryeh Leib Alter
Rabbi Nachman
Rabbi Yechezkel Halberstam
Rabbi Tazdok Hakohen of Lublin
Rabbi Yehoshua Leib Diskin
Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch
Rabbi Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld
Rabbi Yehoshea Dzikover


Rabbis before World War II
Rabbi David Friedman of Karlin
Rabbi Meir Simcha of Dvinsk
Rabbi Yosef Rozen
Rabbi Avraham Freund
Rabbi Elchonon Wasserman
Rabbi Chaim Soloveichik of Brisk
Rabbi Chofetz Chaim
Rabbi Sholem Schneersohn
Rabbi Shaul Brach
Rabbi Yissachar Dov Belze Rabbe
Rabbi Chaim Oizer Grodzinski
Rabbi Chaim Elazar Shapiro


Rabbis after World War II
Satmar Grand Rebbe Joel Teitelbaum
Rabbi Yosef Tzvi Dushinsky
Rabbi Yitzchock Zev Soloveitchik
Rabbi Avraham Yeshayau Karelitz
Rabbi Yitzchok Dov Koppelman
Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl
Rabbi Aharon Kotler
Rabbi Mordechai Gifter
Rabbi Elya Svei
Rabbi Baruch Kaplan
Rabbi Amram Blau
Rabbi Avigdor Miller, zt'l
Rabbi Yitchok Hutner Z"L

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Neturei Karta http://www.nkusa.org/

Congratulations and Well-Wishes to Hamas from Neturei Karta International, Diaspora
27 January 2006

With the help of the Almighty
Asaloom Aleikem

We are Neturei Karta International, representatives of the Torah abiding Jews throughout the world who stand true in their Torah observance and stand strong in their opposition to Zionism and the state of “Israel”.

As you may well know, we Torah Jews, have always stood in complete solidarity with the Palestinian people.

True to the precepts of the Torah, we have always acknowledged and accepted the Palestinian rule over the entire Palestine. Further, in accord with the Jewish teachings, whichever party and whichever system of government that the Palestinian people choose, was and is completely respected and accepted by us, the Jewish people.

Now, on the occasion of the recent elections that have taken place in Palestine, we join our brethren in Palestine, in humbly offering our blessings and congratulations to you leaders, followers, and supporters of the Hamas organization upon your success.

Torah true Jews have always been deeply pained by the suffering of the Palestinian people which has come about through the creation of the Zionist state – the state of “Israel” - the so-called “Jewish” state. This horrendous development is to the Torah Jews an unequaled tragedy and an extreme embarrassment, to say the least.

The Jewish people have been sent into exile close to two thousand years ago by a divine decree of the Almighty. In conjunction with this exile, He has commanded us, the Jewish people, to be loyal, law abiding, compassionate and peace-loving citizens, in every land wherein we reside.

Furthermore, we are to await patiently in exile, the revelation of the Almighty, when all mankind will recognize and serve Him together in harmony and joy. Any attempts to create our own state, in this our Heavenly decreed exile, is expressly forbidden. This prohibition is regardless of whether the land in which the state is to be created, is inhabited or desolate.

The subjugation, oppression and ultimate expulsion of a people in order to accomplish the goal of creating a state, only compounds the crime and sin, is expressly forbidden and is antithetical to all the concepts of Judaism.

The Zionists have ignored all the aforementioned. They, with brazen chutzpah rebelled against the Almighty and the laws of His Torah with the conception of the Zionist ideolegy and by creating and operating the state of “Israel.” They have expelled large numbers of Palestinian people and relentlessly and unremittingly subjugated and oppressed the remaining Palestinians and religious Jews throughout Palestine for nearly an entire century.

Therefore we declare our total opposition to Zionism and the state of “Israel”. We furthermore declare our total support and solidarity with you, the Palestinian people.

Leaders of Hamas, upon your elevation to the position of official representatives of the entire Palestinian people, we offer our blessing and a prayer to the Almighty:

MAY the Almighty guide you and bestow upon you His wisdom to enable you to lead the Palestinian nation according to His will.

MAY the Almighty unite the hearts of the Palestinian people to accept and embrace your leadership with love and good will.

MAY it be the will of the Almighty that we should merit to see the peaceful and speedy dismantlement of the Zionist entity - the state of “Israel” and the transformation of rule over the entire Holy Land, including of course Al-Quds, to its proper rulers, the Palestinian people. Then we can once again live according to the will of the Almighty, Arab and Jew as neighbors, as we have been doing for so many hundreds of years up until the inception of Zionism.

ULTIMATELY, MAY it be the will of the Almighty that the entire world merit in the near future, to behold the revelation of His glory, when all mankind will serve Him in joy and harmony, AMEN.

Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss
Neturei Karta International, USA

Rabbi Ahron Cohen
Neturei Karta, UK
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there are also many other organisations and groups

Jewish Voice for Peace (San Francisco) Jews for Peace in Palestine and Israel (Washington, DC) Philadelphia Jewish Peace Network (Philadelphia) Not In My Name (Chicago) Jewish Voice Against the Occupation (Seattle) Jews Against The Occupation (New York) Visions of Peace With Justice in Israel/Palestine (Boston) Jewish Women for Justice in Israel/Palestine (Boston)
.
 
another website of interest

Jews for justice for palestinians http://www.jfjfp.org/

this is from their site

STOP ISRAELI WAR CRIMES
SUPPORT PALESTINIAN HUMAN RIGHTS
Vigil in Parliament Square Friday 30th June 2006 5.30 - 7pm
Contact your MP

The Israeli government have amassed troops on the outskirts of Gaza and are moving into Rafah, threatening invasion to rescue one Israeli soldier taken hostage on Sunday 25th June.

There are currently 300 Palestinian children (under 18’s) and 100 Palestinian women being held hostages in Israeli prisons. They are among 9,000 Palestinians being held, many of whom are in administrative detention - i.e. without trial or charges. However Israeli leader Ehud Olmert says negotiations ‘are not on the agenda’.

The Israeli army have killed 50 Palestinians since the beginning of this month. Any invasion will inevitably lead to many more Palestinians casualties. Since last night the Israeli army has destroyed the electricity supplies of over half of the Gaza Strip and is tightening its closure and strangulation of the area, thus committing an illegal act of collective punishment on the Palestinian Population. The situation is sure to get worse as Israeli tanks move into densely populated civilian areas, that have already suffered heavily from several months of daily shelling and closures.

The PSC is calling for a vigil against Israeli War Crimes and in support of Palestinian Human Rights this Friday (30th June) from 5:30 to 7pm in Parliament Square. We call on all supporters of Palestine to make their presence known in this current emergency.

Please note that this is a lawful protest.

We would also like to ask you to please contact you MPs and ask them to protest at the attack on Gaza, to ask questions in Parliament and to the Foreign Office. The FO can be contacted directly too, as the actions of the Israeli State contravene International Law and the UK must stop these war crimes from happening.
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The Nutrei Karta is a group that supports a fanatical Rebbe and they make up about less than 1% of Jews... This Rebbe teaches that the Holy Land must be under Palestinian control before the Messiah comes... then when the Messiah comes they will be your enemy and want to destroy all in there path.

There misguided and there Rebbe which many jews say they worship making them not Jews in reality because you cant worship a human is anti-israel because he mistranslates verses..

He thinks because Jews control jerusalem that we will build the temple instead of waiting for the Messiah which is completley wrong.
How about these guys though:

http://wordofmessiah.org/muslims_4_israel.htm

Prof. Khaleel Mohammed, Assistant Professor at the Department of Religious Studies at San Diego State University, is the latest Muslim expert to say that the Koran - the holiest Muslim work - is actually Zionist.

In an interview with Jamie Glazov of FrontPageMagazine.com (June 3, 2004), Mohammed quoted the Koran (5:20-21) as saying: "Moses said to his people: O my people! Remember the bounty of God upon you when He bestowed prophets upon you, and made you kings and gave you that which had not been given to anyone before you amongst the nations. O my people! Enter the Holy Land which God has written for you, and do not turn tail, otherwise you will be losers."

Mohammed emphasized that the above phrase, "God has written for you," is very significant: "In both Jewish and Islamic understandings of the term 'written,' there is the meaning of finality, decisiveness, and immutability...So the simple fact is then, from a faith-based point of view: If God has 'written' Israel for the people of Moses, who can change this?" He also quoted two of Islam's most famous exegetes - Ibn Kathir and Muhammad al-Shawkani - as supporting this explanation.

Imam Abdul Hadi Palazzi, secretary-general of the Italian Muslim Association, has long promoted that it is possible to be a Muslim scholar and leader and still support America, Israel, and democracy. Citing pro-Jewish verses in the Koran, Palazzi told a Jewish audience in Cleveland recently, "There are many good Muslims who value life on earth and the sanctity of their families. Israel should make every effort to support the growth of a pro-Israel movement among these Muslims...[but sadly, Muslims in Israel were emotionally and morally defeated by the Oslo Accords.] They felt that Israel was selling them out to Arafat. They need to be supported and encouraged to speak out in defense of Israel without fear of being assassinated by the PLO [Palestine Liberation Organization] or Hamas...Oslo signaled to many of us that Israel was ready to accept peace at any price, and make incredible concessions to ruthless criminals."

Arab-American Nonie Darwish has recently opened a Web site, www.ArabsforIsrael.com . The site states, inter alia, "We are Arabs and [Muslims] who believe we can support the State of Israel and the Jewish religion and still treasure our Arab and Islamic culture."

Mohammed, in his interview with FrontPageMagazine, apportions at least partial blame for today's wars to the Muslims of the seventh century: "[W]hen the Muslims entered that land [the Holy Land] in the seventh century, they were well aware of its rightful owners [the Jews], and when they failed to act according to divine mandate (at least as perceived by followers of all Abrahamic faiths), they aided and abetted in a crime. And the present situation shows the fruits of that action - wherein innocent Palestinians and Israelis are being killed on a daily basis."

"When the Muslims conquered Jerusalem," Mohammed continued, "it should have been left open for the rightful owners to return. It is possible that Jewish beliefs of the time only allowed such return under a Messiah - but that should not have influenced Muslim action...[The] Muslim occupation and building a mosque on the site of the Temple was something that was not sanctioned by the Koran. How honest is contemporary Islam with this? Given the situation in the Middle East, politicking, etc. stands in the way of honesty."

Mohammed says that Muslim groups have frequently denounced him because he is "out of line with the geopolitical movement toward fundamentalism." "What your readers must understand is that fundamentalism is rapidly becoming mainstream. Moderation is not. A perfect example is in Akbar Ahmed's "Islam Under Siege," where he points out that the Taliban are no longer a fringe group in Pakistan; many Pakistanis are finding themselves drawn to their teachings. Right here in the U.S., I present a problem to those at mosques who use social pressure to coerce others into accepting their extremism…Many Muslims stand against me for no other reason than I say that Israel has a right to exist...I in no way deny that Palestinians have rights. But this is generally not considered by those that criticize my position..."
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http://www.geocities.com/compassionplease/IslamIsrael


http://www.arabsforisrael.com/
 
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if you have noticed i havent made any argument..i respect the right for jews and arabs(muslims+christians+druze) to live in peace and harmony

peace
 
abdmez said:
Wow, everyone on both sides are so hateful...

Do any of you really care about the Palestinians? I think you all care about hating your enemies, and the future of my people and my children don't matter to any of you.

Its all about Iran must die.... Zionists must die...

No one suports the peace process which is slowly dieing, my people are just pawns in Middle Eastern politics.

I support getting a Palestinian State! Not a prolounged conflict that when I die my kids will have no securuity and safety.

It goes both ways! Hamas and Iran don;t care about me or my people... they want destruction as do those hardcore zionsist...

Hamas should never have kidnapped they knew what would have happend.
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so true.
 
abdmez said:
Each person is still a life! To compare it to the Holocaust is ridiculous, and I am sure israeli's have had many casualties to... but the point is that... the whole world looks at palestinians as a number... a political use... a way to destroy Israel. No one really cares about us.
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i agree, nobody really gives a damn about the palestinians. pollitically, they are very useful. oppressive regimes in the muslim world can use this issue to distract their people from their own suffering and cry over the palestinians instead.
 
look i have some very good post, and i must say, that we can sit here and complain how both parties act uncivilised in regards to their position and power, but are we not doing the same thing. i have noticed we just sit here and just bring out proof for this article for that justifying this, justifying that, hes right, shes wrong kind of mentality. yet we do the same thing like what were complaining about, how hamas fires rockets, iraels bombs paletsne but in our own way. we can site here and just make each other look small, but its not changing what goes on out there and in other placed. if we cant see a common ground here on the internet, how do you expect them to see a common ground in a war torn country.

If ive offended anybody in my posts reagrding the israeli + palestinian conflict i apologize. because this is one very hot topic and not easy for someone to comment on unbiasly without getting emotional. so unless i can comment on this topic i will if not i will keep away.:thankyou:
 
abdmez said:
Wow, everyone on both sides are so hateful...

Do any of you really care about the Palestinians? I think you all care about hating your enemies, and the future of my people and my children don't matter to any of you.

Its all about Iran must die.... Zionists must die...

No one suports the peace process which is slowly dieing, my people are just pawns in Middle Eastern politics.

I support getting a Palestinian State! Not a prolounged conflict that when I die my kids will have no securuity and safety.

It goes both ways! Hamas and Iran don;t care about me or my people... they want destruction as do those hardcore zionsist...

Hamas should never have kidnapped they knew what would have happend.
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This post should have to be read by all that want to comment on this thread and any like it. This is a person that is there and lives it.
I feel many people on this forum say they care about the palestinians, but truthfully just use the topic as an excuse to talk hatred of the Israelis. They hate them more than they care about the Palestinians.
 
Very well said Panatella. The trouble with most people on this forum is they are frustrated wannabe mujahids without even knowing what that really implies. And frustrated because whilst they would love to be out saving the world, their parents want them to finish their IT or medicine degrees.

Abdmez hits a rather painful nail on the head. Truth be told the majority here THINK they give a damn about the plight of a nation whereas their words are quite clearly conveying their lack of understanding of the people and history of Falasteen. In fact their words are more about the evils of Zionism. It's the same fallacious simplicity that pre1990s South Africa was subject to - oh it's black vs white etc.

Ask yourselves just how much you know about Palestine. About the people. About their history. How many of them do you speak to? What are THEIR aspirations? Asides from Arafat and the more recent less-charismatic leaders, what Palestinians can you name, or give a bio on? I'm betting you could do bio's on the hated Zionists in a lot more detail.

Abdmez - if nothing else, teach these flag waving Paki's what and WHO they are actually waving a flag for.

I organise events here in Oz. Do you know how easy it is to fill a hall to overflowing when you advertise it as a rally against the evils of Zionism?! Against the evenings where we congregate for a night of prayer and contemplation. Allah huakbar! Subhannallah! It is not even funny.

It's very easy to hate. And it's easy to be a rebel without a cause of your own. Really your own.

It's a lot harder to place your faith completely in Allah swt, the greatest of plotters.
 
dishdash said:
Very well said Panatella. The trouble with most people on this forum is they are frustrated wannabe mujahids without even knowing what that really implies. And frustrated because whilst they would love to be out saving the world, their parents want them to finish their IT or medicine degrees.

Abdmez hits a rather painful nail on the head. Truth be told the majority here THINK they give a damn about the plight of a nation whereas their words are quite clearly conveying their lack of understanding of the people and history of Falasteen. In fact their words are more about the evils of Zionism. It's the same fallacious simplicity that pre1990s South Africa was subject to - oh it's black vs white etc.

Ask yourselves just how much you know about Palestine. About the people. About their history. How many of them do you speak to? What are THEIR aspirations? Asides from Arafat and the more recent less-charismatic leaders, what Palestinians can you name, or give a bio on? I'm betting you could do bio's on the hated Zionists in a lot more detail.

Abdmez - if nothing else, teach these flag waving Paki's what and WHO they are actually waving a flag for.

I organise events here in Oz. Do you know how easy it is to fill a hall to overflowing when you advertise it as a rally against the evils of Zionism?! Against the evenings where we congregate for a night of prayer and contemplation. Allah huakbar! Subhannallah! It is not even funny.

It's very easy to hate. And it's easy to be a rebel without a cause of your own. Really your own.

It's a lot harder to place your faith completely in Allah swt, the greatest of plotters.
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If ever I'm in the land of Oz I owe you lunch. What a great post.
 

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