Israel must withdraw from Arab Lands

[Clover]

some people need to understand history in order to understand the present.. though undoubtedly some just don't like to read so there is no point.. nonetheless.. it is good for the Muslims on board who are not middle eastern in origin to understand something about the history of the region..

It is good for anyone to learn origin of anything anywhere. Education is key to stopping ignorance.

 

[جوري]

Not all axes are dull, and I don't know how you get at that, but ok.

It doesn't matter, death is death, I know I'd prefer my sword be sharp if I was going to commit Seppuku, I would want a sharp blade, whether it's a sword or not I do not care.

you cover more surface area with a sword that you don't get with an axe unless you want to chop someone in intervals .. you are right death is death, as we say in Arabic.. ta3dadat al'asbab wal'mawt wahid..
Many are the ways but death is one!

 

[GuestFellow]

some people need to understand history in order to understand the present.. though undoubtedly some just don't like to read so there is no point.. nonetheless.. it is good for the Muslims on board who are not middle eastern in origin to understand something about the history of the region..

Salaam.

I think the current Israel/Palestine conflict has more to do with the Zionist political movement and how they used the Holocaust to justify taking Palestine and putting palestinian citizens into military control.

What I find worrying that top officals in the Zionist movement were former terrorists and one of them became the President of Israel.

Peace.

 

[Clover]

you cover more surface area with a sword that you don't get with an axe unless you want to chop someone in intervals .. you are right death is death, as we say in Arabic.. ta3dadat al'asbab wal'mawt wahid..
Many are the ways but death is one!

Again, Not neccessarily. Their are some axes that are hugely wide, like as long as my stomach. If I had to choose a weapon to commit Seppuku with, I would choose either Katana, or a very sharp battle axe. Of course, when it comes to it, it means little what you use. It's the act that is meant.

 

[alcurad]

^you can't carry all that weight around and swing it for long, not practical, some Frenchies back a couple of centuries used to throw their axes at the enemy instead of spears, that works.
otherwise a spear is the best weapon to kill, as Alexander proved. or the nuke, but that's expensive, Seppuku with a nuke is a good way to go. seppuku is overrated at that.

Avigdor Lieberman is a very sad example of the continuous radicalization of Israeli society. furthermore he seems to have a lot of support nowadays, if he or one of his ilk gains president-hood Iran will be bombed, then the word holocaust might have another meaning..sad I say, but this world is not for the weak or ineffectual.
we need to stop those shortsighted idiots before it's too late.

 

[جوري]

Salaam.

I think the current Israel/Palestine conflict has more to do with the Zionist political movement and how they used the Holocaust to justify taking Palestine and putting palestinian citizens into military control.

What I find worrying that top officals in the Zionist movement were former terrorists and one of them became the President of Israel.

Peace.

yup, Israel was founded on terrorist organizations, the Haganah, irgun and stern gang, who ironically bombed even the british 'good well ambassadors' that were sent to aid them assimilate (siege and take) our lands.. they have forced other Jewish Arabs into Palestine by scare tactice to foce them into their settlement-- you may read about it here:

http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/ameu_iraqjews.html

 

[Periwinkle]

GossamerSkye:-

You and Anti Karate Kid were busily denying that there were Jewish tribes in Arabia -this is recorded by your own historian Ibn Ishaq in Sirat Rasul Allah. Recorded in this biography of Muhammed is a lot of what you so vehemently deny - so you still think that Islam has ruled Palestine for 1500 years and that there were no Jewish tribes in Arabia?
But I now see that you finally admit it as so many other posters have referenced the fate of the Jews in Medina - perhaps you should read of the fate of the other Jewish tribes in Arabia. But all you can do is copy and paste anthropology and a lecture based on one (just one) persons view on the subject and personal abuse. How sad!


The Prince:-

So you too, have not read Sirat Rasul Allah?

 

[Periwinkle]

AAdil:-

Another poster who hasn't read Mohammed's biography - many of these things were not mentioned in the Quran. Jews and muslims in no way lived peacefully in the Prophet's time. Mohammed evicted whole villages of the Jews and claimed their land and chattels for the muslims as booty. One fifth for Mohammed and the rest for the troops.
Sirat Rasul Allah by Ibn Ishaq will put you straight.

Abd-al Latif:-

Jizyah is definitely not like a peace treaty - it was an inhuman tax, paid monthly and designed to suppress non muslims, many of whom converted because they could not live under such conditions - go and read how Christians had to wear blue patches, and Jews yellow patches. Remind you of something? Remind you of something? There were so many restrictions on non muslims - for too many to relate here.

Muslim lands became muslim lands only because the muslim Arabs left Arabia in the 600's and conquered them, you thinking seems a bit fuzzy here. Before that they were mainly Christian lands. Iran was Zoroastrian, India-Hindu.

Jews are still around because, as you know, they were expelled from Arabia and found other countries to live in.

The Jews that were beheaded in Medina were prisoners that the muslims had taken when they beseiged their strongholds for over three weeks and the Jews had surrendered. Mohammed then asked another muslim, who had been wounded in the battle the Prophets men had just fought with the muslims of Mecca, to pronounce judgement on the tribe. The judgement was that all boys who had reached puberty and all the males of the Jewish tribe were to be beheaded. The women and girls were enslaved and as usual the property and chattels went to the muslims.

P.S. Can you tell me where in the Quran Jerusalem is mentioned? I know the muslims prayed in that direction because, as in so many other things, they copied the Jews. But when Mohammud realised the Jews were never going to convert he changed the direction of prayer to Mecca. Jerusalem was not a holy place to muslims until the late 600s when the muslims built the dome of the rock over the ruined Jewish temple after they invaded Palestine. Jerusalem was only holy to the muslims because they knew the Christians and Jews worshipped there.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

*finally got banned*

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Shame. I was writing a response to her false claims.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

^still post it, someone else could learn from it.

 

[Trumble]

*finally got banned*

Undeserved. Right or wrong she was a lot more patient, respectful and polite in presenting her views than certain people still here. Not impressed. Sorry, but

But all you can do is copy and paste anthropology and a lecture based on one (just one) persons view on the subject and personal abuse

was spot on.

 

[aamirsaab]

Undeserved. Right or wrong she was a lot more patient, respectful and polite than certain people still here.

Not impressed. Sorry, but



was spot on.

She was banned for spreading misconceptions and blatant lies against Islam, Muhammad [saw] and muslims (all of which can and have been refuted years ago....in books!). Not to mention blatant hypocrisy:
[paraphrasing]
''all you do is copy and paste from one source...you should read XYZ person's view instead!'' [/paraphrasing]

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Undeserved. Right or wrong she was a lot more patient, respectful and polite in presenting her views than certain people still here.

disagreed. read any of her other posts in other threads?

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Undeserved. Right or wrong she was a lot more patient, respectful and polite in presenting her views than certain people still here. Not impressed. Sorry, but

Her intention was to spread falsehood because people like myself, like many other muslims, hear the same things repeating and regardless of how hard you try to clear these misconceptions those people stubbornly refuse to listen. So her actions are patient and respectful in your view, but twisting information to annoy others was what the rest could see.

How can she be so certain of herself when the Muslims - the people practicing this religion - are giving every evidence to prove her wrong? She's judged a book by it's cover.

The issue regarding the Jizyah is put to an end in this thread http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifi...85933-jizyah-tax-non-muslims.html#post1198834 while Jerusalem is mentioned indirectly in the Qur'an in Chapter 17, verse 1.

Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things). [17:1]

The farthest Mosque means Jerusalem, or more specifically the mosque itself. I find it interesting that she speaks as though she is speaking on behalf of the Muslims, I wonder who gave her that right!

I'll post the refutation regarding her baseless comment on 'when Mohammud realised the Jews were never going to convert he changed the direction of prayer to Mecca. Jerusalem was not a holy place to muslims until the late 600s when the muslims built the dome of the rock over the ruined Jewish temple after they invaded Palestine. Jerusalem was only holy to the muslims because they knew the Christians and Jews worshipped there.' in another thread.

 

[GuestFellow]

Undeserved. Right or wrong she was a lot more patient, respectful and polite in presenting her views than certain people still here. Not impressed. Sorry, but was spot on.

Ah it was pretty obvious that she was a liar. Read some of her posts. Doesn't take a genius to work that out.

 

[Zafran]

Heres a few hypocritical remarks

Muslim lands became muslim lands only because the muslim Arabs left Arabia in the 600's and conquered them, you thinking seems a bit fuzzy here. Before that they were mainly Christian lands. Iran was Zoroastrian, India-Hindu.

how did those lands become christain in the first place?

Jizyah is definitely not like a peace treaty - it was an inhuman tax, paid monthly and designed to suppress non muslims, many of whom converted because they could not live under such conditions - go and read how Christians had to wear blue patches, and Jews yellow patches. Remind you of something? Remind you of something? There were so many restrictions on non muslims - for too many to relate here

Jews were also forced to wear different clothes in christian europe - later ofcourse there was the inquistion and much harsher treatment- they also couldnt do amny things eg own land - so much that Jews actually ran away from christain lands and settled in places like Morroco, and the Ottoman empire. The Jizya is also exaggerrated - Conversion took many years (100s) of the whole muslim world beacsue non muslims could keep there own heritage and religion under Muslim lands generally - thats why there are still non muslims living in muslim lands

In europe it would be very hard to live as a muslim until the 19th century - or even later to the 20th century - there was little tolerance of anybody that wasnt christain.

P.S. Can you tell me where in the Quran Jerusalem is mentioned? I know the muslims prayed in that direction because, as in so many other things, they copied the Jews. But when Mohammud realised the Jews were never going to convert he changed the direction of prayer to Mecca. Jerusalem was not a holy place to muslims until the late 600s when the muslims built the dome of the rock over the ruined Jewish temple after they invaded Palestine. Jerusalem was only holy to the muslims because they knew the Christians and Jews worshipped there.

this is all Bull**** and theres no other nice way to put it - she forgets to tell you that the Byznatine christians didnt let the Jews near the place and used the temple mount as a dumping site. Jerusalem or more specifically the furthest Mosque is Masjid Al Asqa and prophet Muhammad pbuh travelled there in the night Journey also known as Al Isra

Just to top it She used Hadiths/Islamic sources to prove that Jews lived in arabia - the Hadiths also talk about the prophets Journey to Jerusalem and that its the second oldest sanctury after Mecca - If your going to use muslim sources then you shouldnt have a problem with the prophet Muhammad pbuh going to jerusalem in the night journey.

Hypocricy and more Hypocricy, tut, tut, tut.

The famous Bani Qureyza tribe broke the treaty in the first place and there own law was used against them - Jizya had nothing to do with the treaty.

 

[alcurad]

although the story itself is quite well known, a small fact about the story of Banu Qurayzah is not oft mentioned: it is based on dubious sources. see the last part of this document http://www.witness-pioneer.org/VSch... Prophet Muhammad ordered 900 Jews killed.doc

I need to post this in every page it seems :/ I don't think the ban was necessary though, since refuting the points would've been more effective.

 

[Muezzin]

Guys, we need to get back to the original topic.

The proper place for discussion/complaints about moderators' actions is the private message inbox of the moderator concerned.

 

[جوري]

Hope she can still read this as she seems to have a reading and/or comprehension impediment. Indeed the only history about banu quryzah is recorded by early Muslims, I am simply asking were it not for islamic sources how she would have known about them at all, and developed her very erroneous and fabricated secondary opinion on what allegedly happened?

She seems to forget the 70 hafith sent to them which they have murdered, and forgets that they have started the act of betrayal and forgets that the punishment imposed is the one of their choosing from the Torah. Or does she think the Muslims up and went for an unprovoked kill one day.. why not do that in the beginning if it were a mere desire to eradicate them?

then enraged at best when the correct view is presented her. She in fact doesn't wish to read but hold on to her hateful and malicious views. I am rather surprised she lasted this long. In fact every article presented here, had more than one source, majority of them non-Islamic.
Would also love for her to reconcile the Jewish tribes being in Arabia when Abraham allegedly never been to the region as per their bible.. else God forbid that would mean it was Ishmael being sacrificed not Issac. After all if we are speaking of politics, it should be espoused by some religious motives?

The least any decent public forum do is make sure they disseminate correct information..
by the way if you don't like how this was handled, though it wasn't handled by my person, you are most certainly free to join her!
She has alot of free time on her hand which she enjoys spending in a cesspool and she should indeed be able to enjoy that on her own free time. She will annihilated here, if people actually dedicated the time to humor cockroaches!