Israel to ask Washington for limits on Saudi missile deal

[rav]

Shalom,

Taking statistics from an anti-Israel website about Israel? How about thinking for yourself, or is that way to hard? What your doing is like taking information about the Holocaust from a Neo-Nazi website. Or taking information on the Arab-Israeli conflict from racists who hate Muslims. What you are doing is presenting information which is faulty.

It is obvious that more Palestinians have been killed in the violence and I will outline why:

1. The number would be even if Israel was not able to stop or deter 90% of Palestinian terrorist attacks aimed at killing Jewish civilians.
2. Palestinian militants will commonly use human shield tactics when fighting, therefore, when killed a Palestinian child will generally die as well, which helps propaganda.

If Israel really had the intention of killing all these innocent civilians, I am under the opinion that they could kill many more, a lot faster if that was their goal.

It is important to remember that Israel offered to withdraw from 97 percent of the West Bank and 100 percent of Gaza, and it is the rejection of that proposal, coupled with incessant Palestinian terrorism, that has forced Israeli troops to carry out operations in the territories. Though these actions have caused hardship for the Palestinian population, the IDF has continued to ensure that humanitarian assistance is provided to Palestinians in need. For example, during just one 48-hour period (January 5-6, 2003), the IDF:

1. Coordinated the movement of Palestinians seeking medical care, assisting 40 to go to hospitals, including four patients from Gaza who were transferred to Israel for medical treatment.
2. Coordinated the movement of 284 Palestinians in the West Bank who were transferred by ambulance.
3. Coordinated the passage of building materials for the construction of a hospital in Kalkilya.
4. Coordinated the passage of humanitarian goods to Bethlehem.
5. Coordinated entry of ration cards sent by an international aid organization to the residents of Azoun.
6. Enabled the distribution of ration cards by the Red Cross in Salfit.
7. Coordinated the passage of agricultural produce and food between Muassi and Khan Yunis.
8. Coordinated the passage of an UNRWA team in Gaza to aid in the disposal of rubbish.
9. Arranged entry into Kalkilya for an Israeli Arab family from East Jerusalem to attend their son’s wedding.
10. Even at the height of military action, such as the operation to clean out the terrorist nest in the Jenin refugee camp, Israeli forces have gone out of their way to assist Palestinian non-combatants. In the case of the Jenin operation, for example, the hospital there was kept running with a generator delivered under fire by an Israeli officer.

The best way to improve the situation for the Palestinians in the territories is for the Palestinian Authority to take the steps laid out by the Bush Administration — end the violence, reform its institutions, and elect new leaders — so that peace talks may resume and a settlement can be negotiated.

 

[islamirama]

Shalom,

Taking statistics from an anti-Israel website about Israel?

taking statistics from the factual sites. Everything stated there is a FACT that can be verified. those are hardcore numbers, not someone's opinion that you are comparing them to nazis. Are you going to deny facts now by your lame excuses?

all i hear from you are your defenses backed by your statements. I dont' see any hard facts that can be verified. I'm not interested in your opinions that you call facts to defend against the truth.

 

[rav]

taking statistics from the factual sites. Everything stated there is a FACT that can be verified. those are hardcore numbers, not someone's opinion that you are comparing them to nazis. Are you going to deny facts now by your lame excuses?

Shalom (Peace),

But what I am telling you is that they are not factual. The perfect example is that going though the sites page on the UN resolutions, I have found many errors, intentional or not, I do not know. Neo-Nazi websites which deny the Holocaust, and sites like "answering-islam" source all of their claims as well. Sourcing a claim does not mean it is factually correct. I can source a claim that gravity does not exist and it is a myth. I can also source a claim that the world is flat.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum//

That does not mean it is true by any means.

Of course the State of Israel commits violent acts. I have never said they do not. However, to lay the blame solely on them is irresponsible. Many factors are involved, and the Palestinians are guilty as well for not producing a solution.

If each sides makes outrageous claims and they will not conceed a bit, or meet the other side half way, than no peace will occur. That means more Palestinians and Israeli children will die. Is that what you want? I pray not.

 

[islamirama]

Israeli troops shoot Hebron family (how many more?)

Israeli soldiers have killed an unarmed 67-year-old Palestinian and wounded four members of his family in a raid in the West Bank town of Hebron.

Yehia al-Jabari was shot dead by soldiers who raided his home on Wednesday to detain one of his sons.

An Israeli army spokesman said the army was searching a house in Hebron for wanted suspects.

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He said that its troops were attacked by residents who threw a gas canister at them and one Palestinian man tried to grab the weapon of a soldier "who was forced to open fire".

Residents of Hebron disputed the army's version of events.



One witness said: "They [Israeli soldiers] came like wild dogs and when they did, they opened the door and started shooting. The soldier killed an old man, the head of the household.

"His wife came out screaming so the soldier shot her and then he shot his brother and then the children. Go and look at the house. It's a pool of blood."

One relative of the victim said the shooting was indiscriminate.

"He [an Israeli soldier] shot the boy inside and then the two girls and my wife in the other room. In every room he opened fire," he said.

Covered in blood

Witnesses at the scene accused the Israeli soldiers of firing at young children. Al-Jabari's daughter was still covered in blood when she described what happened.



She said: "My mother told the soldier to stay away from him, from my father. And then he shot him and my mother yelled 'you *******' and then he shot my mother and then shot and wounded my brother Rajeh.

"They shot my brothers and the children."

Earlier on Wednesday, Israeli aircraft struck a group of armed fighters in the northern Gaza Strip, killing one man and wounding another, Palestinian officials said.

The army said it had identified a group of fighters planting explosives in northern Gaza and targeted them from the air.

The Hamas movement said in a radio broadcast that the dead man belonged to the group.

It was the first Israeli air raid since Friday.

Summit postponed

Against this backdrop of continued violence, a meeting between Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, and Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, planned for Thursday has been postponed indefinitely.

"The summit has been postponed because difficulties emerged in the preparations. More discussions are needed to prepare for the summit," Nabil Amr, an aide to Abbas, said on Wednesday.

The summit would have been the first between the two leaders since April 15 despite plans to hold regular meetings.

Abbas earlier this week accused Israel of trying to limit the agenda for the talks, saying he had intended to highlight Palestinian concerns over the separation barrier, settlement building, prisoners and withheld tax receipts.

But Ziad Abu Amr, the Palestinian foreign minister, said Abbas and Olmert would be invited to a meeting in Egypt of the four sponsors of the stalled peace process on June 25.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E8FD87B7-D6E5-43EF-B021-56D419BEF2BE.htm

 

[rav]

Alright, so we have a disputation on what occured. One side says, "He said that its troops were attacked by residents who threw a gas canister at them and one Palestinian man tried to grab the weapon of a soldier "who was forced to open fire"." While the other says, "My mother told the soldier to stay away from him, from my father. And then he shot him and my mother yelled 'you *******' and then he shot my mother and then shot and wounded my brother Rajeh.". If the soldier is right than he had a right to shoot, if the Palestinian is right, than the soldier is a criminal.

How am I to know which one to believe? Either, way did you not read the part of my post in which I wrote, "Of course the State of Israel commits violent acts. I have never said they do not.".

Now instead of continuing to post articles describing killings which I do not condone at all, (I condemn them), can you possibly engage in actual conversation on the topic, or are you only good for copying and pasting? I could do the same as well, by posting stories of for example and Israeli pre-school blowing up from a suicide bomber, but since my goal is for peace, why would I want to enrage either side.

Both sides obviously have extremists, I never disputed you on that, however, where I dispute you, is when you claim that only one side has extremists and the other does not. That is a pathetic claim, which reveals nothing but the naive nature of the person making such a claim.

 

[MTAFFI]

Alright, so we have a disputation on what occured. One side says, "He said that its troops were attacked by residents who threw a gas canister at them and one Palestinian man tried to grab the weapon of a soldier "who was forced to open fire"." While the other says, "My mother told the soldier to stay away from him, from my father. And then he shot him and my mother yelled 'you *******' and then he shot my mother and then shot and wounded my brother Rajeh.". If the soldier is right than he had a right to shoot, if the Palestinian is right, than the soldier is a criminal.

How am I to know which one to believe? Either, way did you not read the part of my post in which I wrote, "Of course the State of Israel commits violent acts. I have never said they do not.".

Now instead of continuing to post articles describing killings which I do not condone at all, (I condemn them), can you possibly engage in actual conversation on the topic, or are you only good for copying and pasting? I could do the same as well, by posting stories of for example and Israeli pre-school blowing up from a suicide bomber, but since my goal is for peace, why would I want to enrage either side.

Both sides obviously have extremists, I never disputed you on that, however, where I dispute you, is when you claim that only one side has extremists and the other does not. That is a pathetic claim, which reveals nothing but the naive nature of the person making such a claim.

It couldnt be more perfectly put

 

[islamirama]

Alright, so we have a disputation on what occured. One side says, "He said that its troops were attacked by residents who threw a gas canister at them and one Palestinian man tried to grab the weapon of a soldier "who was forced to open fire"." While the other says, "My mother told the soldier to stay away from him, from my father. And then he shot him and my mother yelled 'you *******' and then he shot my mother and then shot and wounded my brother Rajeh.". If the soldier is right than he had a right to shoot, if the Palestinian is right, than the soldier is a criminal.

How am I to know which one to believe? Either, way did you not read the part of my post in which I wrote, "Of course the State of Israel commits violent acts. I have never said they do not.".

Now instead of continuing to post articles describing killings which I do not condone at all, (I condemn them), can you possibly engage in actual conversation on the topic, or are you only good for copying and pasting? I could do the same as well, by posting stories of for example and Israeli pre-school blowing up from a suicide bomber, but since my goal is for peace, why would I want to enrage either side.

Both sides obviously have extremists, I never disputed you on that, however, where I dispute you, is when you claim that only one side has extremists and the other does not. That is a pathetic claim, which reveals nothing but the naive nature of the person making such a claim.

The army is always making up bogus stories to defend its atrocities. I don't see any extremists in this story at all. Its a plain old massacre like many before it. Who cares what the military side is saying, eyewitness and kids make the best people to ask. Yea i'm sure a 67yr old man is an extemist as is his helpless family that is murdered in cold blood. That's how all "extremists" are being killed by these war criminals.


One witness said: "They [Israeli soldiers] came like wild dogs and when they did, they opened the door and started shooting. The soldier killed an old man, the head of the household.

"His wife came out screaming so the soldier shot her and then he shot his brother and then the children. Go and look at the house. It's a pool of blood."

One relative of the victim said the shooting was indiscriminate.

"He [an Israeli soldier] shot the boy inside and then the two girls and my wife in the other room. In every room he opened fire," he said. (why feel the need to open fire in every room and shoot kids?)


Witnesses at the scene accused the Israeli soldiers of firing at young children. (any extremists here?)

Al-Jabari's daughter was still covered in blood when she described what happened.



She said: "My mother told the soldier to stay away from him, from my father. And then he shot him and my mother yelled 'you *******' and then he shot my mother and then shot and wounded my brother Rajeh. (no regard of human life at all here)

"They shot my brothers and the children." (a simple family massacre)

Both Sides may have extremits, but this was clearly no extremists case. This was one sided brutality, one that is all too often and freely done.

 

[rav]

The army is always making up bogus stories to defend its atrocities. I don't see any extremists in this story at all. Its a plain old massacre like many before it. Who cares what the military side is saying, eyewitness and kids make the best people to ask. Yea i'm sure a 67yr old man is an extemist as is his helpless family that is murdered in cold blood. That's how all "extremists" are being killed by these war criminals.

I don't think you understood my post. What I am saying, is that extremists are on both sides. The soldier (if guilty) who massacred, and the Palestinian suicide bomber who blew up a pre-school, while mothers were picking up their children. Both are extremists.

The disputation I had with your article was that I understand that one side has claimed one thing, but it is really not enough. For example; if a terrorists family knows that there family member is a terrorist, do you think they will admit that if he is killed? Of course not. Since the odds are they will not like Israel, they will probably try to frame such an incident to be a "massacre" but we just do not know.

I'm not saying it did not happen, or it did the way the Palestinians told it. What I am saying is that there is no way to prove who is telling the truth. The problem with such a conflict as the Palestinian-Israeli one is that the Palestinian soldiers have no uniforms when they fight, a majority of the time. Therefore, ever Palestinian "soldier" Israel kills can be counted towards a civilian death.

I'm glad you used the words "accused" in your post, because that is what it is, an accusation. One that may have occured, or not. We may never know. If the soldier is guilty, then he is a murderer who deserves his punishment, and will recieve it when G-d judges it.

In the hope of a peaceful solution.
Shalom Eliechem

 

[Sinbad]

I think they are a little over 2 billion a piece and the US has put somethign like 50 billion in them already

No those are old useless bombers, Israel have those they are nothing. only 2 bilion dollars.

It has wings and all, this new one dosent have wings, its more like an "ufo"

Iran would very much be a good use for them, I am pretty sure I read that they were used over Iraq at the beginning of the war and afghan as well, but I think they were only brought out in those cases as a show of dominance.

The F-22 have never been used, I think its more for to fight the Chinese/Russians et c. The earlier models have been used, it was also the first one to bomb iraq in the war, it targeted hes home, they hoped killing him and end the war before it began.

Could you imagine Ahmadinjehad's face if 20 of these flew right over his radar and utterly destroyed nantz and all his other nuclear sites? lol.... I found that this is what they carry STANDARD

The American mind never cease to amaze me. I cant imagine bombing nuclear facilities (nuke) Iran would cause.