Israeli forces attack aid Gaza aid flotilla, kill activists

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The muslim invaders came and conquered the land. What happened afterwards is of no concern to the fact that the land was indeed occupied and even if many people converted to Islam Arabs did settle there, mixed with the natives, today's Palestinians are Arabs, descendants of the pople who conquered the land, the same way young Israelis are.
You should read too, the Khazar has been disproven by genetic anylysys by jews and non-jews.
Khazars hasn't been disproven at all, I understand your need to tell that to yourself, given your state of under-education where you'd like to keep yourself in a dulled foggy understanding.
Google ashkanezi jews simply from a medical/scientific perspective not a political one and see what comes up!
The Muslims ruled for 1200 years not 1500.
It was not illegal, it was handed over by the British and split by the UN, legal, but not necessarily legitimate and according tto the will of the people.
The people of Palestine are the ones that have always been regardless of their religion, and I have posted a rather large article including of U.N resolutions and illegalities which Israel is in defiance of.. Israel has always been an illegal settler cockroach state. for even if we are to go by the very original Hebrews they're in fact from Iraq and previously Yemen, these European occupiers have positively nothing to do with those original middle eastern Jews, who later became christian and Muslims regardless of your understanding of things which is as irrelevant as you are!
We can't be made responsible for your ignorance, lack of understanding of the most basic things like history.. you'd think it were some kind of complicated calculus formula for you to feign that level of stupidity. This is the sort of crap you can peddle on the ziono/ fundie forums, where no emphasis on education is placed and alot of emphasis on propaganda, lies and stupidity is peddled!

all the best
 
salaam

we await until there is no palestine left - a real pity realy.

peace.
 
Palestinians are occupiers, they're the descendants of Muslims invaders the same way Israelis are the descendants of first zionists. The difference is that a longer period has passed since the Muslim invasion.

Can someone please ban this thing?
 
The muslim invaders came and conquered the land. What happened afterwards is of no concern to the fact that the land was indeed occupied and even if many people converted to Islam Arabs did settle there, mixed with the natives, today's Palestinians are Arabs, descendants of the pople who conquered the land, the same way young Israelis are.
You should read too, the Khazar has been disproven by genetic anylysys by jews and non-jews.
The Muslims ruled for 1200 years not 1500.
It was not illegal, it was handed over by the British and split by the UN, legal, but not necessarily legitimate and according tto the will of the people.

You're trying to compare ancient demographics and tribal migration with the modern colonialism and the mandate system? I'm sorry, but those things do not compare.

Should the UN forcibly give the entire Mediterranean to the Italians just because Rome conquered it at one point in time? Or perhaps we should Give the entire orient and Northern Africa to Iran in the name of the Persian empire.
 
You're trying to compare ancient demographics and tribal migration with the modern colonialism and the mandate system? I'm sorry, but those things do not compare.

Should the UN forcibly give the entire Mediterranean to the Italians just because Rome conquered it at one point in time? Or perhaps we should Give the entire orient and Northern Africa to Iran in the name of the Persian empire.

salaam

Well said! -

to mash and the UN didnt split Palestine - its given the best solution for peace, which the US keeps Vetoing out!

peace
 
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You're trying to compare ancient demographics and tribal migration with the modern colonialism and the mandate system? I'm sorry, but those things do not compare.

Should the UN forcibly give the entire Mediterranean to the Italians just because Rome conquered it at one point in time? Or perhaps we should Give the entire orient and Northern Africa to Iran in the name of the Persian empire.

None of the two arguments are relevant. There are only two arguments which hold with respect to this subject:

- Jerusalem is a holy city for Islam.

- The palestinian people should cease to be oppressed.

Any historical argument just weakens these two arguments which are the strongest you can get.
 
With regards to Jerusalem, I think it should become under UN control as soon as possible. There's so many holy sites from Christianity, Judaism and Islam within the city, that no one religion should be able to claim complete control. As soon as Palestine is given its independence (and such a fate is inevitable, as proven by history), the city should be placed under UN control, to help curtail violence and/or destruction of holy places.
 
With regards to Jerusalem, I think it should become under UN control as soon as possible. There's so many holy sites from Christianity, Judaism and Islam within the city, that no one religion should be able to claim complete control. As soon as Palestine is given its independence (and such a fate is inevitable, as proven by history), the city should be placed under UN control, to help curtail violence and/or destruction of holy places.

Well but this won't solve the problem since even though the physical control would be in the hands of the UN the question is hardly about the physical control over the city which is to a large extent secondary.

In truth, if you ask my personal opinion - I would love to see a religious negotiation on the fate of the city where representatives from all three
religions would come together to decide it's fate - and "may the best man win" - but in truth , I think this does not happen because nobody has the balls to do that.
 
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East Jerusalem according to the UN belongs to the palestinains anyway - It has been occuppied by Isreal since 1967. - If international law is placed to solve this problem (which it should be) - then the holy sites do go to palestine which are in east Jerusalem. Isreal has zero right on them.
 
East Jerusalem according to the UN belongs to the palestinains anyway - It has been occuppied by Isreal since 1967. - If international law is placed to solve this problem (which it should be) - then the holy sites do go to palestine which are in east Jerusalem. Isreal has zero right on them.

Well, according to Islam Jerusalem belongs to neither Israeli's or Palestinians - it belongs to Muslims.
 
Well but this won't solve the problem since even though the physical control would be in the hands of the UN the question is hardly about the physical control over the city which is to a large extent secondary.

In truth, if you ask my personal opinion - I would love to see a religious negotiation on the fate of the city where representatives from all three
religions would come together to decide it's fate - and "may the best man win" - but in truth , I think this does not happen because nobody has the balls to do that.

If that happened, I've got a strong feeling the Muslims would get control of Jerusalem. And even if the Christians got control, who would get the Church of the Holy Sepulchre? Almost every year at Easter, physical fighting is reported between members of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, Greek Orthodox Church, Roman Catholic Church, Russian Orthodox Church etc on who should rightfully own the sacred church. No, in my opinion, Jerusalem should be put into neutral control, where the sanctity of churches, mosques and synanagogues are guaranteed, and there's no justification for religious followers to try and wrestle and fight to get the city under their control.
 
what do you mean??

Its our holy city, the direction where we first used to pray, masjid al aqsa is one of three masjids where we can do pilgrimage, its where prophet Muhammad ascended to jannah, its the area where many prophets taught the true religion of monotheism
 
If that happened, I've got a strong feeling the Muslims would get control of Jerusalem. And even if the Christians got control, who would get the Church of the Holy Sepulchre? Almost every year at Easter, physical fighting is reported between members of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, Greek Orthodox Church, Roman Catholic Church, Russian Orthodox Church etc on who should rightfully own the sacred church. No, in my opinion, Jerusalem should be put into neutral control, where the sanctity of churches, mosques and synanagogues are guaranteed, and there's no justification for religious followers to try and wrestle and fight to get the city under their control.
Muslim family holds key to sacred sepulchre / For centuries, their ancestors have opened door to church where Jesus believed buried​

Every morning at 4 a.m., Wajeeh Nuseibeh walks through the walled Old City of Jerusalem to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the most revered shrine in Christendom. He takes an ancient 12-inch iron key, climbs a small ladder and opens the huge wooden doors to the place that most Christians believe is the site of the crucifixion, tomb and resurrection of Jesus.

Every evening at nightfall, after three raps of an iron doorknocker spaced out over half an hour, Nuseibeh closes up and places the key in safekeeping.

He inherited the job from his father and grandfather, in a chain stretching back more than 1,300 years. But surprisingly, Nuseibeh, doorkeeper of the site of the crucifixion, is, like his ancestors, a Muslim.

"It goes from father to son, from one generation to the next," said Nuseibeh, a small, dapper 55-year-old man in a suit and tie. "I was 15 when I first opened the church. I thought it was fun. As I grew up I realized it is a big responsibility."

This weekend, thousands of Christians flock to the Holy Sepulchre for Easter services, processions and the ancient ceremony of the Holy Fire, in which Nuseibeh plays a central role. The ceremony, held on Holy Saturday, the day before Easter, symbolizes the resurrection of Christ.

Worshipers pack into the church, trying to get as close as possible to the marble-clad tomb, or sepulchre, where they believe Jesus' body was laid. The oil lamps inside the mausoleum that contains the tomb are extinguished, and a huge stone is rolled across the entrance, which is then sealed shut by Greek Orthodox priests.

"If there are no oil lamps lit, the tomb will be sealed with wax. I am the witness. I put my stamp, the name of the family, in the wax on the tomb," Nuseibeh said.

What happens next looks like a miracle. The Orthodox patriarch begins to pray, and a bluish Holy Fire begins to emanate from within the tomb, lighting the lamps and sometimes flying around the church over the heads of the assembled worshipers and even lighting the candles of believers. Nuseibeh has been the official witness at this ceremony for more than 20 years.

The church is a major attraction for both pilgrims and tourists. A vast warren of chapels, tunnels and caves, with architectural remnants that date back to the 4th century, it spans a broad range of traditions, from the westernized cathedral of the Catholics to the icons of the Orthodox churches. It houses the final stations on the Via Dolorosa -- the last journey of Jesus to the crucifixion.

The church is jealously managed by five competing and often disputatious Christian denominations -- Roman Catholic (also called Latin here), Greek Orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, Coptic and Syrian Orthodox (sometimes called Jacobite). There also is a small Ethiopian Orthodox chapel on the roof. Sometimes the tensions over the right to clean or to pray in a particular area of the church spill over into violence. Nuseibeh's family has helped keep the peace between them since Caliph Omar Ibn Kattab first conquered Jerusalem for the Muslims in 638. The only gap was during 88 years of Crusader rule in the 12th century.

According to family history, when Salah A-Din recaptured Jerusalem in 1191, he promised English King Richard the Lion Heart he would invite the Nuseibeh family to resume their role as custodians.

Since that time, the Judeh family, also Muslims, have been given the key for safekeeping overnight, but only the Nuseibehs serve as doorkeeper.

Once a year, the three biggest denominations -- Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic and Armenian -- publicly renew their request to Nuseibeh to be the "custodian and doorkeeper," as written on his business card and multimedia Web site (www.nuseibehfamily.com).

About 100 years ago, the key was stolen. Although it was eventually recovered, a spare now is kept in a locked room inside the church.

For his hereditary labor, Nuseibeh receives $15 every month, an income he supplements by giving tours of the church. But the ancient honor is worth more to him than the token payment. When tensions boil over between the denominations, Nuseibeh is the one who calms the waters.

"Like all brothers, they sometimes have problems. We help them settle their disputes. We are the neutral people in the church. We are the United Nations. We help preserve peace in this holy place," he said.

Nuseibeh said he still becomes anxious before the big ceremonies or when important visitors arrive. "I realize there are thousands of people waiting to go into the church, and they are waiting for me to open it, and I start to imagine what will be happen if the lock will be broken or the key is damaged and I can't open the door."

But that has never happened in the 20 years since he took over from his father. He hopes that one day his son Obadah, now 21, will step into his footsteps, but that's not certain. "He is at college, studying to be a sports trainer," Nuseibeh said. "Maybe he will not follow me, and then my brother or my cousin will take over."

Nuseibeh said he is deeply touched by the Christian rituals and feels a close affinity with the church, but he does not pray there.

"I know every stone. It is like my home," he said. "But I go to pray at the Omar Mosque next door."

SOURCE: http://articles.sfgate.com/2005-03-...urches-greek-orthodox-priests-syrian-orthodox
 
Muslim family holds key to sacred sepulchre / For centuries, their ancestors have opened door to church where Jesus believed buried​

Every morning at 4 a.m., Wajeeh Nuseibeh walks through the walled Old City of Jerusalem to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the most revered shrine in Christendom. He takes an ancient 12-inch iron key, climbs a small ladder and opens the huge wooden doors to the place that most Christians believe is the site of the crucifixion, tomb and resurrection of Jesus.

Every evening at nightfall, after three raps of an iron doorknocker spaced out over half an hour, Nuseibeh closes up and places the key in safekeeping.

He inherited the job from his father and grandfather, in a chain stretching back more than 1,300 years. But surprisingly, Nuseibeh, doorkeeper of the site of the crucifixion, is, like his ancestors, a Muslim.

"It goes from father to son, from one generation to the next," said Nuseibeh, a small, dapper 55-year-old man in a suit and tie. "I was 15 when I first opened the church. I thought it was fun. As I grew up I realized it is a big responsibility."

This weekend, thousands of Christians flock to the Holy Sepulchre for Easter services, processions and the ancient ceremony of the Holy Fire, in which Nuseibeh plays a central role. The ceremony, held on Holy Saturday, the day before Easter, symbolizes the resurrection of Christ.

Worshipers pack into the church, trying to get as close as possible to the marble-clad tomb, or sepulchre, where they believe Jesus' body was laid. The oil lamps inside the mausoleum that contains the tomb are extinguished, and a huge stone is rolled across the entrance, which is then sealed shut by Greek Orthodox priests.

"If there are no oil lamps lit, the tomb will be sealed with wax. I am the witness. I put my stamp, the name of the family, in the wax on the tomb," Nuseibeh said.

What happens next looks like a miracle. The Orthodox patriarch begins to pray, and a bluish Holy Fire begins to emanate from within the tomb, lighting the lamps and sometimes flying around the church over the heads of the assembled worshipers and even lighting the candles of believers. Nuseibeh has been the official witness at this ceremony for more than 20 years.

The church is a major attraction for both pilgrims and tourists. A vast warren of chapels, tunnels and caves, with architectural remnants that date back to the 4th century, it spans a broad range of traditions, from the westernized cathedral of the Catholics to the icons of the Orthodox churches. It houses the final stations on the Via Dolorosa -- the last journey of Jesus to the crucifixion.

The church is jealously managed by five competing and often disputatious Christian denominations -- Roman Catholic (also called Latin here), Greek Orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, Coptic and Syrian Orthodox (sometimes called Jacobite). There also is a small Ethiopian Orthodox chapel on the roof. Sometimes the tensions over the right to clean or to pray in a particular area of the church spill over into violence. Nuseibeh's family has helped keep the peace between them since Caliph Omar Ibn Kattab first conquered Jerusalem for the Muslims in 638. The only gap was during 88 years of Crusader rule in the 12th century.

According to family history, when Salah A-Din recaptured Jerusalem in 1191, he promised English King Richard the Lion Heart he would invite the Nuseibeh family to resume their role as custodians.

Since that time, the Judeh family, also Muslims, have been given the key for safekeeping overnight, but only the Nuseibehs serve as doorkeeper.

Once a year, the three biggest denominations -- Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic and Armenian -- publicly renew their request to Nuseibeh to be the "custodian and doorkeeper," as written on his business card and multimedia Web site (www.nuseibehfamily.com).

About 100 years ago, the key was stolen. Although it was eventually recovered, a spare now is kept in a locked room inside the church.

For his hereditary labor, Nuseibeh receives $15 every month, an income he supplements by giving tours of the church. But the ancient honor is worth more to him than the token payment. When tensions boil over between the denominations, Nuseibeh is the one who calms the waters.

"Like all brothers, they sometimes have problems. We help them settle their disputes. We are the neutral people in the church. We are the United Nations. We help preserve peace in this holy place," he said.

Nuseibeh said he still becomes anxious before the big ceremonies or when important visitors arrive. "I realize there are thousands of people waiting to go into the church, and they are waiting for me to open it, and I start to imagine what will be happen if the lock will be broken or the key is damaged and I can't open the door."

But that has never happened in the 20 years since he took over from his father. He hopes that one day his son Obadah, now 21, will step into his footsteps, but that's not certain. "He is at college, studying to be a sports trainer," Nuseibeh said. "Maybe he will not follow me, and then my brother or my cousin will take over."

Nuseibeh said he is deeply touched by the Christian rituals and feels a close affinity with the church, but he does not pray there.

"I know every stone. It is like my home," he said. "But I go to pray at the Omar Mosque next door."

SOURCE: http://articles.sfgate.com/2005-03-...urches-greek-orthodox-priests-syrian-orthodox


Thanks for posting the article. I was already aware of the Muslim family who are responsible for the church, and from what I've heard, they're a God-send. Lots of major Christian denominations have a stake in the church. But that's exactly why Christians should not take control of the city. Could you imagine the carnage?
 
i know this point has been adressed already, but i read it and it has been on my mind ever since. someone mentioned something that a jew said, about how palestinians were never in palestine before the jews came, and it is some kind of tactic by the arabs to "rob" them of their "true" land. those weren't the exact words, but i have heard this before, and it infuriates me.

1) my parents were born in palestine, my father was born 1943, mother 1945, if there were no palestinians there then how is that possible, my parents were born before the end of the world war.

2) if there were no palestinians who did the british originally promise the land to??

3) is this excuse a viable reason for oppression, countless human rights violations, murder, genocide, and inhuman actions.

4) this excuse has one goal, and one goal only to distract muslims from the real issue. much like bush when he was in afghanistan and couldn't find bin laden so he ran to iraq to make-up another enemy. just like 9/11 distracted the americans from the horrendous dissarray their country was in.

5) it still doesn't entitle the jews to that land, zionists were originally secular, and now the state of isreal is going through a state of secularism, they are starting to fight with each other about religion. if they are not there for religious reasons then they have no right to be there since their original stake to palestine is one of religion.

sorry, go back to what you discussing, i haven't read it but the story about muslims open the doors to a church sounds interesting.
 
ninkarsndatitreyensrail.jpg
 
i know this point has been adressed already, but i read it and it has been on my mind ever since. someone mentioned something that a jew said, about how palestinians were never in palestine before the jews came, and it is some kind of tactic by the arabs to "rob" them of their "true" land. those weren't the exact words, but i have heard this before, and it infuriates me.

1) my parents were born in palestine, my father was born 1943, mother 1945, if there were no palestinians there then how is that possible, my parents were born before the end of the world war.

2) if there were no palestinians who did the british originally promise the land to??

3) is this excuse a viable reason for oppression, countless human rights violations, murder, genocide, and inhuman actions.

4) this excuse has one goal, and one goal only to distract muslims from the real issue. much like bush when he was in afghanistan and couldn't find bin laden so he ran to iraq to make-up another enemy. just like 9/11 distracted the americans from the horrendous dissarray their country was in.

5) it still doesn't entitle the jews to that land, zionists were originally secular, and now the state of isreal is going through a state of secularism, they are starting to fight with each other about religion. if they are not there for religious reasons then they have no right to be there since their original stake to palestine is one of religion.

sorry, go back to what you discussing, i haven't read it but the story about muslims open the doors to a church sounds interesting.

The land does not belong to any of the following

- Jews
- Palestinians
- Britons
- Turks
- Crusaders
- Eskimos

The land belongs to Allah and to those who follow his rules and guidance.
 
The land does not belong to any of the following

- Jews
- Palestinians
- Britons
- Turks
- Crusaders
- Eskimos

Eskimos? Now someone is finally making sense. I think we've found the solution. The land belongs to the Eskimos.
;D

:wa:
 

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