Jesus Dying on the Cross?

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OK, Here are the verses where Jesus said He will die, and even referred to crucifixion, and will rise from Death.
I also included a few verses where he appeared to the Apostles. They were very scared when they saw Jesus, because they thought He was a ghost.
Therefore, they knew Jesus was dead.
He then told them to see the wounds where He was pierced on the cross, and mentioned that It is He who died, but is alive.

Jesus predicts his death by crucifixion.
In Mark Jesus predicts his death three times, recorded in Mark 8:31-33, 9:30-32 and 10:32-34.Matthew 16:21–28
In Matthew 16:21–28 Jesus said "from that time", i.e. on a number of occasions, Jesus "began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed.
The Gospel of Luke 9:22–27 shortens the account
In Matthew 20:17–19 Jesus specifically mentions crucifixion.
The same in Matthew 26:1–2.
Jesus said He rose from the dead.
Luk 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luk 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Luk 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
Jesus showed the apostles his hands and his side where he was pierced.
Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Joh 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Thomas did not believe Jesus rose from the dead, but Jesus appeared to the Apostles again showing Thomas his wounds.
Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Mark says Jesus showed himself to the apostles after His crucifixion
Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
ev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Jesus appears to the Apostle John at Patmos
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches …
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
 
I have huge problems with the website being very slow to respond. This makes my posts being duplicated etc. Sorry for that.

Anatolian said: Quran says “wa-lakin shubbiha lahum” (But similar to them). A similar of the event ( crusifixion/killing of Jesus) was made to appear to them. So they thought that he was crucified/killed and recorded so.


The point is, Allah deceived only the enemies of Jesus to save him. Allah didnt tell people that you will be saved if you believe Jesus died on the cross. This was invented by Paul.

1. If Allah deceived only the Enemies of Jesus, he failed because all Christians, including me, believed that He died on the Cross. This means that He Deceived me also when he made it to appear that Jesus died on the Cross.
2. Your accusation about Paul inventing teh Crucifixion has no historical support.
3. Not true that Paul invented the cross. Paul persecuted, jailed and killed the first Christians for believing that Jesus died on the Cross.
You never read the Bible, therefore you dont know what it says.
You obviously never read the Quran also, because Allah says Paul was also His Messenger!

 
Paul didnt invent the account of crucifixion. He heard people talking about this long after. What he invented is the salvation through crucifixion. People thinking that Jesus died on the cross is not a problem. The problem is to believe in a salvation through such an event. This is what was invented by Paul. Apostles were not preching such a salvation theory before Paul.

No where in the Gospel Jesus is saying that he will be killed by people. Maybe he was crucified but didnt die. He was burried alive and came from the grave on the third day.

No where in Quran Paul is mentioned as a Messenger of Allah
 
Anatolian says: No where in the Gospel Jesus is saying that he will be killed by people. Maybe he was crucified but didnt die. He was burried alive and came from the grave on the third day.

But the apostles say:
Mat 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
And Jesus Himself says He will be killed and rise from death on the 2rd day.: Luk 9:21 And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing;
Luk 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

Oh, Wow! You did not tell the truth, here we have Jesus saying He will be crucified!
Mat 20:17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,
Mat 20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
Mat 20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.
And again!
Mat 26:1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples, Mat 26:2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Do you see the problems about what you claimed, and what the Bible really say?
You made Jesus a liar that he never predicted his Crucifixion and death on the Cross.
You made Jesus a liar saying He did not appear to His apostles after He rose from the Dead.

Now, you must choose.
Either you are a blatant Liar, or you just never read the Bible!
 
Anatolian says: No where in the Gospel Jesus is saying that he will be killed by people. Maybe he was crucified but didnt die. He was burried alive and came from the grave on the third day.

But the apostles say:
Mat 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
And Jesus Himself says He will be killed and rise from death on the 2rd day.: Luk 9:21 And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing;
Luk 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

Oh, Wow! You did not tell the truth, here we have Jesus saying He will be crucified!
Mat 20:17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,
Mat 20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
Mat 20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.
And again!
Mat 26:1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples, Mat 26:2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Do you see the problems about what you claimed, and what the Bible really say?
You made Jesus a liar that he never predicted his Crucifixion and death on the Cross.
You made Jesus a liar saying He did not appear to His apostles after He rose from the Dead.

Now, you must choose.
Either you are a blatant Liar, or you just never read the Bible!
What do you say for Mathew 12:40 For as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights

Jonas was alive in the belly of the fish for three days. So must Jesus be alive in the grave for three days
 
Anatolian says: No where in Quran Paul is mentioned as a Messenger of Allah

It is just the commentator’s opinion to think that that messenger was Paul. His name is not there in the original. I am not with the same opinion
 
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Concerning the Crucifixion:

These are the relevant ʾāyāt:

‘And so, for breaking their pledge, for rejecting Allāh’s revelations, for unjustly killing their prophets, for saying: “Our minds are closed” – Nay! Allāh has sealed them in their disbelief, so they believe only a little – and because they disbelieved and uttered a terrible slander against Mary, and said “We have killed (‘qatalnā’) the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allāh.” They did not kill him (wamā qatalūhu), nor did they crucify him (wamā ṣalabūhu), though it was made to appear like that to them (wa-lākin shubbiha lahum); those that disagreed about him are full of doubt, with no knowledge to follow, only supposition: they certainly did not kill him – Nay! (‘bal’), Allāh raised him (‘rafaʿahu’) up to Himself. Allāh is almighty and wise.’ (Al-Nisa: 155-158; my emphases).


There are tafâsîr (interpretations of the Qur’an) by Wahb Ibn Munabbih; Ṭabarî; Makkî Ibn Abi Ṭâlib; Qurṭubî; Ibn Kathîr; Suyûṭî; Ṭabâṭabâ’î; and Jazâ’irî. All of them (apart from Ṭabâṭabâ’î) claim that Yeshua was not crucified, but that another was made to resemble him – and to take his place. The text provides no justification for this claim.

Muhammad Asad writes:

‘There exist, among Muslims, many fanciful legends telling us that at the last moment God substituted for Jesus a person closely resembling him (according to some accounts, that person was Judas), who was subsequently crucified in his place. However, none of these legends finds the slightest support in the Qur’ān or in authentic Traditions, and the stories produced in this connection by the classical commentators must be summarily rejected. They represent no more than confused attempts at “harmonizing” the Qur’anic statement that Jesus was not crucified with the graphic description, in the Gospels, of his crucifixion.

‘The story of the crucifixion as such has been succinctly explained in the Qur’anic phrase wa-lākin shubbiha lahum – implying that in the course of time, long after the time of Jesus, a legend had somehow grown up (possibly under the then-powerful influence of Mithraistic beliefs) to the effect that he had died on the cross in order to atone for the “original sin” with which mankind is allegedly burdened; among the latter-day followers of Jesus that even his enemies, the Jews, began to believe it – albeit in a derogatory sense (for crucifixion was, in those times, a heinous form of death-penalty reserved for the lowest of criminals). (‘The Message of the Qur'an).

I opine that these ʾāyāt are addressing the narratives found in the ‘Talmud Bavli’ (‘Babylonian Talmud’), rather than those of the Gospels (whose narratives are rejected by default).

Here’s why:

Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) does not identify those Jews who ‘uttered a terrible slander against Mary’; nor the period in which they lived. However, there are clues to their identity in the writings of Origen, and in the Talmud.

Celsus, a polemic writer against Christians, produced his ‘Logos Alēthēs’ (‘The True Word’) between the years 175 and 180 CE. Around 240 CE, a copy was given to Origen of Alexandria, one of the most influential scholars in the early Church.

The original text of ‘Logos Alēthēs’ has been lost, but scholars have been able to reconstruct much of it, thanks to Origen’s many citations.

Origen writes (my emphases):

‘He (Celsus) also introduces an imaginary character (a Jew) who addresses childish remarks to Jesus and says nothing worthy of a philosopher’s grey hairs…. After this he represents the Jew as having a conversation with Jesus himself and refuting him on many charges, as he thinks: first, because he (Jesus) fabricated the story of his birth from a virgin; and he reproaches him because he came from a Jewish village and from a poor country woman who earned her living by spinning. He (Celsus) says that she was driven out by her husband, who was a carpenter by trade, as she was convicted of adultery.’ (‘Contra Celsus – Book 1; Chapter 28’).

In Chapter 32 of his work, Origen writes:

‘Let us return, however, to the words put into the mouth of the Jew, where the mother of Jesus is described as having been turned out by the carpenter who was betrothed to her, "as she had been convicted of adultery and had a child by a certain soldier named Panthera”’.

Henry Chadwick, in his translation of the ‘Contra Celsus, writes:

‘The title Jesus ben Panthera is not uncommon in the Talmud……. Eusebius, commenting on Hos. v. 14 (‘Return, Israel, to the Lord your God. Your sins have been your downfall!’) says: ‘The text may be quoted against those of the circumcision who slanderously and abusively assert that our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was born of Panthera Epiphanius’

When preparing his book ‘Jesus in the Talmud, Peter Schäfer – a noted scholar in the field of ancient Judaism and early Christianity, and one-time Ronald O. Perelman Professor of Judaic Studies at Princeton University – drew on fourteen Talmud manuscripts (both censored and uncensored); along with two printed versions; the Soncino (1484-1519) and the Vilna (1880-1886).

For our purposes, the uncensored tracts are of particular relevance. The oldest used by Schäfer are the Firenze II-I-7-9; an Ashkenazi manuscript of 1177 CE; and the Herzog 1; a Yemeni manuscript of c1565 CE.

Schäfer writes:

‘The (Babylonian) Talmud seems to be convinced that (Yeshua’s) true father was Pandera, his mother’s lover, and that he was a b*****d in the full sense of the word.’ (‘Jesus in the Talmud’).

Could this be the ‘terrible slander against Mary’ that Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) refers to? I know of no other.

Referring to the tractate ‘Sanhedrin 43’, Schäfer continues:

‘With the sixth chapter (“Jesus’ Execution”) we return to the fate of Jesus himself. Here, a quite elaborate story – again only in the Babylonian Talmud – details the halakhic procedure of Jesus’ trial and execution: Jesus was not crucified but, according to Jewish law, stoned to death and then, as the ultimate post-mortem punishment reserved for the worst criminals, hanged on a tree. This took place on the eve of Passover, which happened to be Sabbath eve (Friday). The reason for his execution was because he was convicted of sorcery and of enticing Israel into idolatry.’ (‘Jesus in the Talmud’; my emphasis).

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Dr. David Instone-Brewer, of the Faculty of Divinity at the University of Cambridge, writes:

‘The Talmud is an edited and severely abbreviated record of discussions by rabbis over a period of 300 years, starting in about AD 200 when the document they were discussing was edited.

‘The traditions about the trials of Jesus and his disciples which were censored from b. San.43a were brought into the Talmudic discussions early in the Third Century and removed in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries.

‘External evidence gives independent witness that the earliest core in this tradition was: ‘On the Eve of Passover, they hung Jesus of Nazareth for sorcery and enticing Israel (to idolatry).’ (‘Jesus of Nazareth’s Trial in the Uncensored Talmud’).
The Qur’an denies the Talmud Bavli narratives (my emphases):

‘They did not kill him (wamā qatalūhu), nor did they crucify him (wamā ṣalabūhu), though it was made to appear like that to them (wa-lākin shubbiha lahum); those that disagreed about him are full of doubt, with no knowledge to follow, only supposition: they certainly did not kill him – Nay! (‘bal’), Allāh raised him (‘rafaʿahu’) up to Himself. Allāh is almighty and wise.’


There was no deception of the part of Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) – no ‘substitution’. The Bavli narrative is a lie; one that gained the appearance of truth through a process of repetition over time.

According to the Qur’an, Yeshua was not executed. The language of the Text reveals, beyond doubt, that he did not die:

‘Allāh raised him (‘rafaʿahu’) up to Himself.’

The word ‘raise’ renders ‘rafa‘a’ (‘to raise’) rather than ‘ba‘atha’, which is used elsewhere in the Qur’an to mean ‘to resurrect’ after death.

Commenting on this, Abu Musa al-Ash'ari writes:

‘There is a consensus among the community of the faithful that the Prophet Jesus (as) was raised alive to the heavens.’ (‘al-Ibana 'an Usul al-Diyana’).

Hasan Basri Cantay writes: ‘Allah raised and lifted up the Prophet Jesus (as) in both body and soul.’ (‘Tafsir of the Qur'an’).

Imam ibn Taymiyya writes: ‘The verse "He raised him to His Presence" … explains that the Prophet Jesus (as) was raised in both body and soul.’ (‘Majmu' Fatawa’).

Zahid al-Kawthari affirms that the ascension of Yeshua is beyond doubt:

‘That is because the basic meaning of the word rafa'a in the verses is transportation from below to above. There is no element here that could be used to interpret the verses metaphorically. Therefore, there is no evidence for seeking to produce a meaning in the sense of ascension in honour and station.’ (Nazra 'Abira fi Maza'im’).

The argument that Yeshua was not killed is strengthen by the use of the word ‘bal’ in ʾāyah 158.

‘…they certainly did not kill him – Nay! (‘bal’),

By way of explanation, Sheikh al-Islam Mustafa Sabri writes that if the term ‘bal’:

‘Comes after a sentence expressing a negativity, then, according to the rules of Arabic linguistics, the sentence following it must mean the exact opposite of the one preceding it. The opposite of death is life. This is a requirement of the rules of linguistics.’ (‘Position of Reason’).

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The Qur’an does not say that Yeshua died a natural death. It says that he will die a natural death.

The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines ‘death’ as: ‘A permanent cessation of all vital functions – the end of life.’; and this is what most people understand whenever they hear the word, or see it written. However, the
Qur’an uses two different terms when referring to death: ‘tawaffâ’ and ‘mawt’. Only ‘mawt’ accords with the Merriam-Webster definition.

A major point of distinction between ‘mawt’ and ‘tawaffâ’ is that only the former is associated with killing, murder or manslaughter (‘qatala’).

Mawt’ stems from the trilateral root ‘mīm wāw tā’ – ‘māta’.

Abdur Rashid Siddiqui reminds us that:

‘Māta means to die, to perish, to lose life. Mawt from this root means death or demise. This is the opposite of life. The word Mawt is used for absence of life in living creatures as well as plants and metaphorically for inanimate objects like stone where there is an absence of greenery (Qāf 50: 11). When a person dies he loses all sensation and consciousness whereas during sleep one only suffers loss of consciousness; even this is described figuratively as death (al-Zumar 39: 42; al-Anʿām 6: 60).

‘Death is something that is inevitable: it is the most predictable event. In the Qur’ān it is referred to as Yaqīn (certainty) (al-Ḥijr 15: 99; al-Muddaththir 74: 47). It is stated that “every soul shall taste death” (Āl ʿImrān 3: 185).’ (‘Qur'anic Keywords: A Reference Guide’).

Here are the relevant ʾāyāt:

‘She (Mary) went back to her people carrying the child, and they said: “Mary! You have done something terrible! Sister of Aaron! Your father was not an evil man; your mother was not unchaste!” She pointed at him. They said: “How can we converse with an infant?” (But) he said: “I am a servant of God. He has granted me the Scripture; made me a prophet; made me blessed wherever I may be. He commanded me to pray, to give alms as long as I live, to cherish my mother. He did not make me domineering or graceless. Peace was on me the day I was born, and will be on me the day I die (‘amūtu’) and the day I am raised to life again.’ (Maryam: 27-33; my emphasis).

Note that Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām) uses the word ‘amūtu’ and not ‘qatalūhu’; and from this it is clear that he is foretelling his natural, biological, death, and not a violent death at the hands of others.

You will know that Islam does not consider Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām) to be divine. This means that he must share in human mortality.

Shaykh Sayyid Hussein Nasr writes:

‘Islamic tradition holds Jesus will return near the end times to fight the Antichrist (al-Dajjāl) and will thereafter eventually die and be resurrected with the rest of humanity.’ (‘The Study Quran: A New Translation and Commentary’; my emphasis).

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The overwhelming majority of New Testament scholars are in agreement that the gospels were written by anonymous authors, decades after the events they portray. Most certainly, they are not eyewitness accounts.


The gospels were first mentioned – in Christian literature – sometime around 120 CE–150 CE. Justin Martyr – a Christian apologist – refers to them as ‘Memoirs of the Apostles.’ (‘First Apology’ – 155 CE; and ‘Dialogue With Trypho’ – 160 CE). It was not until 180 CE – or thereabouts – that names were attached to these works. The person responsible for this deception was Irenaeus, the Bishop of Lyon.

Dorothy Milne Murdock (Acharya S) writes:

‘Irenaeus is the first to name the canonical gospels and give reasons for their inclusion and number in the New Testament.

‘The remarks by Irenaeus represent the first mention of all four canonical gospels together. In fact, prior to the end of the second century, there is no clear evidence of the existence of the canonical gospels as we have them. (‘Who Was Jesus? - Fingerprints of The Christ’).

The gospel attributed to Mark was the first to be written. This was sometime after 70 CE – and perhaps even later.

This gospel became the foundation of both Matthew (its author plagiarised some 90% of Mark) and of Luke (its author plagiarised around 50% of Mark).

Concerning the trial narratives:

Since the 18[SUP]th[/SUP] century – at least – Jewish scholars have highlighted problems with the gospel accounts of Yeshua’s trial.

Haim Cohn (one-time Attorney-General of Israel and later Justice of the Israeli Supreme Court) is especially scathing.

In his book ‘The Trial and Death of Jesus’, Justice Cohn reminds us that the Gospel writers get their facts wrong time and again. The trial violates well-established provisions of Jewish law, for example:

That the Sanhedrin convened on Passover eve; that the trial was conducted at night; that the trial was held in secret, and in a private home; that the High Priest act as interrogator, and even struck the accused; and that the accused was mocked and beaten.

Any one of these violations should have resulted in a mis-trial.

There is no doubt that the Gospel accounts are intended – not to portray the truth – but to portray the Jewish religious leaders as stereotypical villains.

Robert M. Price writes:

‘Many see the difficulties with the Sanhedrin trial as so insuperable that they erase all Jewish involvement from the record, placing the whole initiative and responsibility on the shoulders of the Romans. But isn't the Pilate story even more outrageous? Why retain it as evidence of any Roman involvement at all? It is a tenuous link.’ (‘Incredible Shrinking Son of Man: How Reliable Is the Gospel Tradition?’).


The Evangelists portray Pilate as something of a wimp, a pushover, eager to placate the Jewish priests.

In truth, Pilate was an arrogant, ruthless despot; described by Philo of Alexandria as ‘naturally inflexible and stubbornly relentless’; a man who committed ‘acts of corruption, insults, rapine, outrages on the people, arrogance, repeated murders of innocent victims, and constant and most galling savagery.’ (‘Legatio ad Gaium’).

Josephus describes Pilate as ‘extremely offensive, cruel and corrupt.’ (Quoted in ‘Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible; David Noel Freedman – editor’).

Josephus records one particular incident, when soldiers – disguised in local dress and armed with daggers – slipped into a crowd of protestors and, on Pilate’s signal, killed a ‘great number’, including innocent bystanders. (‘Antiquities, vol. 18.2’).

When Pilate was finally recalled to Rome (in 36 C.E.) it was not because of any reluctance to kill his master’s enemies. No. It was for the slaughter of a procession of Samaritan pilgrims on their way to the sacred Mount Gerizim. (‘The Trial and Death of Jesus’).

The Evangelists have the Jewish priests waste no time in telling Pilate how to do his job; going so far as to threaten him (John 19:12).

Justice Cohn writes:

‘Any Jew who dared to remind the governor of his duty toward the emperor, or to hint at more fervid patriotism would not be let live another hour.’ (‘The Trial and Death of Jesus’).

Justice Cohn drawers our attention to other flaws in the story:

That the Jews brought Yeshua to Pilate for execution, on the pretext that: ‘It (was) not lawful for (them) to put any man to death” (John 18:31) – this is untrue.

That there was a need to investigate Yeshua’s alleged behaviour (by means of a ‘pre-trial’) before turning him over to the Romans. Cohn notes: ‘There is not a single instance recorded anywhere of the Great or Small Sanhedrin ever acting as an investigatory agent of the Romans.’

That Jews entering the Praetorium would be defiled (John 18:28). Cohn assures us that: ‘Nothing in Jewish law or ritual, however, would support the contention that by entering the king’s – or anybody’s – place or a courtroom a Jew could become unpure.’

By the way, the Sanhedrin would not have asked Pilate to crucify Yeshua. They would have asked for death by stoning, as the Taurat required (‘Mishnah Sanhedrin 6:4h and i’).

Continued:
 
Concerning the crucifixion narratives:

These narratives have been fabricated by the simple process of scriptural eisegesis – the process of introducing into a text one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases.


Let’s have a look at some examples:

First:

Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām) is nailed to a cross. This notion is based on a specific interpretation of Ps 22:16: ‘For dogs surround me; a band of evil men encircles me; they have pierced my hands and feet.’

It is worth noting that the Masoretic text has Psalmist say: ‘For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evildoers have enclosed me; like a lion they are at my hands and my feet.’ – my emphasis.

The ‘New Jerusalem Bible (Standard Edition)’ has: ‘A pack of dogs surrounds me, a gang of villains closing in on me as if to hack off my hands and my feet.’ – my emphasis.

An earlier version of the ‘Jerusalem Bible’ has: ‘A pack of dogs surrounds me, a gang of villains closes me in; they tie me hand and foot.’ – my emphasis.

The ‘Douay-Rheims Bible’ has: ‘For many dogs have encompassed me: the council of the malignant hath besieged me. They have dug my hands and feet.’ – my emphasis.

A detailed examination of this particular text lies outside the scope of this thread; suffice it to say that the crucial word is ‘ka'ari’; which means lion; like a lion; as a lion; and so on. In verses 12-13 and 20-21 the word is translated correctly. Had the Psalmist wished to declare that his hands and feet had been pierced he would not have used the word ‘ka'ari’ at all; rather, he would have used either ‘daqar’ or ‘ratza’. These are the Hebrew words used for pierce or pierced.

Second:

Yeshua’s garments are divided. This is taken directly from Ps 22:18: ‘They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.’

Third:

Yeshua is subjected to mockery. This is taken from Ps 22:7: ‘All who see me mock me; they sneer and shake their heads.’

Fourth:

Yeshua is then mocked by priests. They call on him to come down from the cross, so that they may see and believe (Mark 15:32). This is taken from Ps 22:8: ‘He trusts in the LORD, let the LORD deliver him; let the LORD rescue him, since He delights in him.’

Matthew adds to this mockery: ‘He trusts in God; let God deliver him now, if he desires him; for he said, `I am the son of God.’ (Matthew 27:43).

This wee snippet is taken – not from personal memory – but from a truncated interpretation of Wisdom 2:12-20:

‘………………………. For if the upright man is God's son, God will help him and rescue him from the clutches of his enemies. Let us test him with cruelty and with torture, and thus explore this gentleness of his and put his patience to the test. Let us condemn him to a shameful death since God will rescue him – or so he claims.'

Finally:

We have Yeshua’s alleged final words – a cry of dereliction, ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’

This, of course, is the opening line of Ps. 22; a fact that neither Mark nor Matthew acknowledges.

Both Mark and Matthew carefully avoid the remainder of that verse; and the one that follows after: ‘Why are You so far from saving me, so far from my words of groaning? I cry out by day, O my God, but You do not answer, and by night, but I have no rest.’ – my emphasis.

According to the gospels, Yeshua spent around six hours on the cross; and yet the Psalmist cries out by day and by night. How can this be the crucified Messiah?

Luke – for his own reasons – decides to change Yeshua’s final words, making him say: ‘Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.’ (Luke 23:46). This is taken from Ps. 31:5: ‘Into Your hands I commit my spirit.’

John – who portrays a far more robust Yeshua than does the Synoptists – has him say a simple ‘It is finished!’

Robert M. Price writes:

‘Because he will not allow that terrible cry of dereliction from the cross, John has had to invent another speech that will bring the wine on the sponge, and he too goes to Septuagint Psalm 69:21: "They ... made me drink vinegar (oxos) for my thirst," changing the last words into direct discourse (dipsan, "thirst," to Dipso, "I thirst).

‘But why change "sponge on the end of. a cane (kalamo)" to a "sponge on hyssop (hussopo)?" I would suggest that the marjoram or hyssop comes not only from the Psalms but also is a way for John to introduce more Paschal symbolism into the crucifixion. Remember that the first phrase uttered about Jesus in the Fourth Gospel is the Baptist's "Behold the lamb of God" (1:29), and that John presents Jesus dying even as the Passover lambs were being slaughtered in Jerusalem. According to Exodus, hyssop (marjoram) was to be used for sprinkling the blood of the Paschal lamb on the doorposts and lintels of Hebrew homes (12:21); thus, the touching of Jesus with hyssop becomes the symbolic reenactment of the Passover ritual upon his own person.’
(‘Killing History: Jesus In The No-Spin Zone.’).

It is claimed that Psalm 22 – and others – are Messianic prophecies.

Robert M. Price writes:

‘If you want to be convinced by “messianic prophecy,” it helps to be as ignorant as possible, and to be sure to read the passages with no reference to historical or literary context…….Strobel, like all apologists, cites “They have pierced my hands and feet” (22:16b) as a prediction of the nail-wounds of crucifixion, but the reference makes more sense in context as bite – and claw-wounds incurred by the sufferer as he tries to fend off the wild animals snapping at him (22:16a), the symbols of his real-life dilemmas.’ (‘The Case Against the Case For Christ: A New Testament Scholar Refutes the Reverend Lee Strobel’ – my emphasis).


Psalm 22 is not a prophecy of Yeshua’s death – nor, indeed, of anyone else’s. It is an ‘Individual Lament’ psalm; sung by – on behalf of – someone who feels himself forsaken by the Beloved, but knows not why.

In spite of personal anguish, the individual still has faith, and the conviction that the Beloved will come to his aid, will rescue him. In return for this rescue, the individual promises to appear in the Temple; to sing a ‘new song’ – a Thanksgiving Psalm – and to present an offering; one that can be shared with the poor; with those invited especially to witness the occasion.

Continued:

- - - Updated - - -

Even before Paul – and certainly before the Gospels – there were Christian groups who believed that Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām) had nothing to do with dying on a cross, or being resurrected. The Gospel of Thomas, for example, makes no reference to either event.

The anonymous author of ‘John’ most certainly knew of these Thomasines, since he targets them with the following – very well known – ‘Doubting Thomas’ pericope:

‘Thomas, called the Twin, who was one of the Twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples said to him, 'We have seen the Lord,' but he answered, 'Unless I can see the holes that the nails made in his hands and can put my finger into the holes they made, and unless I can put my hand into his side, I refuse to believe.'

[SUP]‘[/SUP]Eight days later the disciples were in the house again and Thomas was with them. The doors were closed, but Jesus came in and stood among them. 'Peace be with you,' he said. Then he spoke to Thomas, 'Put your finger here; look, here are my hands. Give me your hand; put it into my side. Do not be unbelieving any more but believe.' Thomas replied, 'My Lord and my God! Jesus said to him: You believe because you can see me. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.’ (Jn: 20: 24-29).

This pericope, of course, is pure propaganda; a fiction, created for theological purposes.

And what of Barabbas?

As you know, Barabbas is said to have been freed – by Pilate – whose his custom (it is claimed) was to release – in honour of the Jewish Passover festival – a prisoner guilty of a capital crime.

This is risible nonsense!

There is no evidence – none at all – that the so-called ‘Privilegium Paschale’ was a custom for either the Jews or the Romans.

In conclusion:

Robert Price writes:

‘What are we to make of this very strange circumstance, that no memory of the central saving event of the Christian religion survived, that when someone first ventured to tell the story of the crucifixion of the Savior, the only building blocks available for the task were various Scripture texts?’ (‘The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man – How Reliable Is the Gospel Tradition?’)
 
God is the Most Great, I testify and bear witness that there is no god but God, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is the Prophet of God, the Quran is from God, none are worthy of worship except God, everything in the universe exalt and praise God (except the losers), everything in the universe submits to God and prostrate down to Him (except the losers), God is the King and Protector and Lord and Light and Ruler and Creator of the heavens and the earth and all things in them.
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The Quran is God's book, whatever the Quran says, God has said.

If the Quran says Jesus wasn't killed by the Jews (the shameless losers who have denied and disbelieved in both Prophet Jesus and Muhammad), but was raised to heaven, then that is what happened, and doing this is easy for God.

If a man is God's Prophet, then anything can happen to him. May peace and blessings be upon all the Prophets of God.

The Bible is gone. There is Only The Quran left.

The Christains are lunatics and the Jews even more so.

You gonna trust them and their long gone book?

Trust in God, in the Quran, which is the speech of God.

That's it.

The Quran is from God, the Quran is Truth, everything it says is Truth.

Everything else, bye bye.

There is Only The Quran.

This is the Truth.

God is the Greatest.
 

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