Jesus prophecied Islam in Bible-parallels

[Al-manar]

Yes but I am talking about an immeadiate comfort and profound peace during the period of stress, so rich that one Just praises God and carries on with life as if there is no stress

yes ... yes

you just repeat the same idea with different words.....

How many non-christians who would tell you the same exact experience? how many would tell you about their wonderful experience with the spirit of God being with them ,supporting them in stress......

Have you ever met born again muslims? Have you ever met born again buddhists?

May I tell you how many times I felt the spirit of Allah supporting me inside and outside my country of origin? I can tell you my personal experiences ,which is amazing and could be used as a material of preaching....

but that is not my style , emotions not only could be misleading in the arena of religions but the other arenas too.... your emotions could lead you to choose the wrong religion ,and the wrong woman as well..........



more to post later....................

peace

 

[freethinking]

my pace from ther holy Spirit is Spiritual not emotional and I am not religious but in a Spiritual relationship with God

Bles you

 

[Al-manar]

I think i understand what you are saying here i was just seeking more sharing so i could grow. My place is not speak with authority, Allah ahs sent us messengers (pbut) they were given His authority. My place is to ask and maybe gently warn of what is written in truth of the messengers (pbut).

.

may be you have not much knowledge in the arena of bible vs Quran ,but your words are wise ... all my respect for you

and don't be depressed due to the harsh treatment of some muslims towards other muslims from other methodologies ... just begin with yourself and show other muslims your tolerance and forgiveness .......

collecting the whole muslims into one methodology ,is like a dream of collecting the world into one religion !!
Allah created the humans with free will, and that leads logically to their differing in understanding and beliefs ...

I would finish with a word from the infamous reformer Imam Rashid Reda(may Allah bless his soul) ... he calls all muslims from differing methodologies ..
(let's cooperate of what we agree on, and forgive each others of the matters we disagree on).....

"نتعاون فيما اتفقنا عليه، ويعذر بعضنا بعضا فيما اختلفنا فيه"

I am not religious .

I think you don't appreciate yourself well....

I find you religious ... someone coming to Islamic board to share muslims with his good news ,must be a good christians ,religious even if he doesn't go to the church... ....

I'm in a Spiritual relationship with God.

you know G.Bush? he is the same a christian,having a Spiritual relationship with God...

you know what was the fruit of such relationship? ask Bush who told him to invade Iraq killing men, women,children intentionally..

Bush has claimed he was told by God to invade Iraq as part of a divine mission to bring peace to the Middle East.....

you may claim that he isn't a true christian etc....

but that doesn't matter .... my point is well established:

what a person consider a Spiritual relationship with God , may be viewed by another as a Spiritual relationship with demonic powers ....

The reason I suggested quranic understanding is because I did not see any clear explantion in the quran of how to fight against spiritual evil. .

I doubt you ever read the Quran fully

How do you know this for sure? God is Supremly Supernatural, and can do anything. .

God can do anything ,but there are things he won't do (though able to) eg;

can God commit suicide? I wouldn't say he can't !

but he won't ,cause he said about himself that he is eternal..

now could the supernatural almighty be a triune? yes he could , but if he was triune ,he would be any other trinity system but not the christian one....

in other words God could be triune, dual etc.... but the system has to be consistent with his attributes ...... the trinity as the christians suggest , appears in self-contradictory ,inconsistent formula....

in a word: our issue with the trinity as muslims should be not whether God can be trinity or not, but rather Is he trinity or not....

 

[freethinking]

in regard to George Bush I do not know if he was in commumion with God or not but I do know that the Bible does have differnt duties for Kings and national leaders.
As for me when I say I am not religious I do mean I am not ritualistic and repetitve with God. It is a beautiful rich two way relationship
that inclides me asking God questions and Getting answers from God sometimes immediatlety and sometimes months or even years later but when it is from God, it is always given to me in peace with absolutly no ambiguities and no room for doubt or argument. It is Pure Truth as no other can give.
It is also God spiritually transforming me from the inside out to the stage now where I know I cannot sin unless I very consciously choose to rebel against God in my heart. I have began to truely know and Love God. GOD IS LOVE

Its a wonderful Glorious Rich and amazing life for me now, I feel wonderfully blessed.

I have realised the amazing miricles written in the scriptures are every bit as applicible today as they were then.

God bless you to have this beautiful relationship

 

[Woodrow]

Is it easy though? When I read the quran I saw no real references to Gods Holy Spirit also known in the OT as the COMFORTER, SOURCE OF WISDOM, and source of Gods messages to Man either directly or through people and angels indirectly.
Jesus himself stated that the only sin which will not be forgiven is to Blaspheme against the Holy spirit so where is information in the quran about this?
I do not recall reading about Gods wonderful Holy spirit within that book

Peace and Blessings be with you from God

Peace Freethinking,

You will not read about the Holy Spirit in the Qur'an, because the Holy Spirit as a being or entity does not exist. This was a later concept of Christian and was not a belief of the early Christians. The Holy Spirit as a being first became a Christian Belief in Christianity at the Council of Nicea. Many early Christians practiced Aranism, but were overcome by the Catholic Church at the Council of Constaninople and their beliefs destroyed.

Arianism

Arianism is the name given to an anti-Trinitarian belief system taught by Arius, an elder in the Alexandrian church, in the early fourth century AD. Arius affirmed the uniqueness of God and denied the complete divinity of the Son (Christ). He taught instead that Christ was a created and changeable being, who, while superior to humans, is not of the same order as the one God.

Arius and Arianism were condemned at the famous Council of Nicea in 325 AD, which proclaimed that the Son was of "the same substance" as the Father. After Constantine's death, however, Arianism flourished again for some decades and almost overcame the Nicene party. Arianism was finally condemned at the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD.

SOURCE: http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/beliefs/trinity.htm

 

[Predator]

Peace Freethinking,

You will not read about the Holy Spirit in the Qur'an, because the Holy Spirit as a being or entity does not exist.

The Holy Spirit is an entity in Islam and it is Angel Gabriel

http://muslim-responses.com/The_Holy_Spirit_in_Islam/The_Holy_Spirit_in_Islam_

 

[Woodrow]

The Holy Spirit is an entity in Islam and it is Angel Gabriel

http://muslim-responses.com/The_Holy_Spirit_in_Islam/The_Holy_Spirit_in_Islam_

Akhi,

That is true.

Jazakallah Khayr for bringing that up. It is Jibril Esa(as) was speaking of, which later was interpreted by the Council of Constantinople as being the third person of God. A Roman Catholic concept, based on who knows for certain, and forced upon the Chrtistian populace as truth. All Biblical Books that did not support or could not be interpreted to support the Trinity were banned as being gnostic or heretical.

But the meaning of Holy Spirit as understood by Christians does not exist according to what was revealed to us and is not part of what is in the Qur'an.

 

[Al-manar]

peace


I think there is one element we missed here in such Discussion.... it is very important and crucial

It is what has the Old Testament to say ,regarding the spirit ?

we have 2 things to talk about:

1- the spirit of God .

2- the life-giving spirit of God.

It seems that the two are not identical according to the old testament

Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

(Job xii. 10). Through His spirit all living things are created; and when He withdraws it they perish

Such Spirit is called (the breath) ,and all creatures live only through such breath(spirit) given by God


this exact same term (breath) is used in the Quran:

Holy Quran 15:29 "When I have fashioned him (Adam) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."

4:171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him


Note, Jesus is a Spirit proceeding from God,but it refers here to the giving life spirit or the power giving spirit?

I suggest ,according to the context ,it is the first...


what is that (breath) responsible for life?
The Quran would say , it is a secret and no human whatever scientific knowledge may have,would ever able to understand what is that spirit that gives life to living creatures...

17:85 They ask thee concerning the Spirit . Say: "from my Lord's matter, : of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"


The next term is God's spirit aka the holy spirit.....
It is not such giving life spirit but the one God pours out His own spirit upon all whom He has chosen to execute His will and behests, and this spirit imbues them with higher reason and powers, making them capable of heroic speech and action

Its work according to the Old Testament:

1- rests upon man (Isa. xi. 2, xlii. 1); it surrounds him like a garment (Judges vi. 34; II Chron. xxiv. 20); it falls upon him and holds him like a hand (Ezek. xi. 5, xxxvii. 1).

2- It may also be taken away from the chosen one and transferred to some one else (Num. xi. 17).

3- It may enter into man and speak with his voice (II Sam. xxiii. 2; Ezek. ii. 2; comp. Jer. x. 14).

4- The prophet sees and hears by means of the spirit (Num. xxiv. 2; I Sam. x. 6; II Sam. xxiii. 2; Isa. xlii. 1; Zech. vii. 12).

5- The Messianic passage in Joel ii. 28-29, to which special significance was subsequently attached, is characteristic of the view regarding the nature of the spirit: "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my Spirit."


6- It is a tool used by God to give inspiration and prophecies,as all the Prophets spoke "in the Holy Spirit"; and the most characteristic sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit is the gift of prophecy, in the sense that the person upon whom it rests beholds the past and the future.


To sum up ,the holy spirit according to the Old Testament is a special power God sends to those who desreve it, supporting,inspiring them .....

Gabriel in the old testament?

the angel who was sent to Daniel (8:16) to explain the vision of the ram and the he-goat, and to communicate the prediction of the seventy weeks (Dan. 9:21-27)


Daniel (8:16) While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and trying to understand it, there before me stood one who looked like a man. 16 And I heard a man's voice from the Ulai calling, "Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision."

So Gabriel is not viewed clearly as the holy spirit in the old testament....


well, we have compared before (the giving life spirit) according to the old testament and the Quran ,and we found out that they are identical ....

and we visited the term (spirit of God aka holy spirit) in the old testament .......

now let's visit the term in the Quran :


Holy Quran 2:87 We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you an apostle with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!

016.102
YUSUFALI: Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.


002.097
Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah's will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-


The holy spirit , according to the Quran, without doubt a reference to Gabriel......


When the holy spirit sends a spirit?

yes ,it used to mean an angel sending inspiration to a human

16:2 He doth send down His angels with inspiration (Rauh ,spirit) of His Command, to such of His servants as He pleaseth, (saying): "Warn (Man) that there is no god but I: so do your duty unto Me."


to sum up the comparative point: the old testament describes the activities of the holy spirit the same Quranic way .... but nothing there describing the medium that provides such power....


(Originally Posted by woodrow) the meaning of Holy Spirit as understood by Christians does not exist according to what was revealed to us and is not part of what is in the Qur'an.




The christian concept of the holy spirit is one in a list of misinterpretations and misapplications of the the old testament...

Christians didn't invent the concept but developed its meaning the wrong way ...the same way of the term (king messiah) and how they developed it , also the (Man- God) concept it has a back ground in the old Testament


for example the following text

Genesis 18
1And the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day. 2He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing in front of him.(B) When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth


suchtext (and others) has prepeared the mentalities of some Jews to accept the idea (God was incarnated) .....

jews before christianity who would not understand the text as incarnation of God... but the text would seduce others to accept the idea and develope it...

in sum , christians didn't invent the concept of the holy spirit(eg, borrowing it from paganism) but along with some other Old Testament items ,it has been developed from a power to the giver of such power......... in other ways they exaggerated and gone to the extreme with mis-using specific terms.....

the same way they have developed the idea of the powerful messiah king who would rule the world ,to the messiah king who would not only rule the world but heaven as well !.....

If one sincerely wants to get solutions to the New testament puzzles,one should consult the old testament and it has the keys..... unlike those who would approach the topic with (the pagan influence on christianity) approach , I would suggest another approach ( christianity is a mis-interpreatation of some corrupted text ,the old testament)......

It is a corruption based on another older corruption..........

 

[Al-manar]

I have just verified the post and I think I missed typing one interesting point related to the topic

compare the following narrations:

Narrated Albukhari: the prophet was asked; how do you recieve the the revelation? and he answered
Sometimes the wahy (the revelation) came in the form of the ringing sound of a big bell (salsalatul jars). and This type of revelation is the hardest of all and when I have grasped what is revealed this condition passes away.and sometimes the angel comes in the form of a man talks to me and teaches me..
Aisha(may Allah bless her soul) says: I saw the Prophet receiving revelation on a very cold day and noticed that the sweat was dropping from his forehead. This condition lasted till the revelation was over.


compared with:

the jewish encyclopedia while talking about the holy spirit tells:


As early as Ezek. iii. 12 it is stated, "the spirit took me up, and I heard behind me a voice of a great rushing," the expression "behind me" characterizing the unusual nature of the noise. The Shekinah (the holy spirit) made a noise before Samson like a bell (Soṭah 9b, below). When the Holy Spirit was resting upon him, his hair gave forth a sound like a bell, which could be heard from afar. It imbued him with such strength that he could uproot two mountains and rub them together like pebbles, and could cover leagues at one step (ib. 17b; Lev. R. viii. 2).


Have you noticed the similarities?!

 

[Steven John]

AoA.
I had considered that Christians of the books would see the Holy Spirit as Allah guidance and support.
With the exception the Christian G-d never misleads and creates opportunity for people to increase in sin.
Christians would see the latter as guidance and support of Shatan.

May Allah guide us all to His truth