jews and arabs

:sl: and Greetings,

Please refer to the following post of mine, where I have listed some discussions on Islam and Jews:

http://www.islamicboard.com/558849-post13.html

From one of those threads, a relevant post might be this one:

http://www.islamicboard.com/311795-post20.html

I would also like to mention that if you are to mention something about Islam, then please support it with facts (in reference to a deleted post). Simply stating what "historians say" is not sufficient.

Thank you.
 
it is strictly political in my opinion, nothing to do with religion - it's all about zionism.
having said that, i would add that i have seem some muslim websites that parrot classical european anti-semitism.
but i have also known zionists to scream "anti-semitism" the minute any one criticizes israel.
 
Well, I think both Zionism and much of the Muslim resistance to it is religiously motivated, so I think this mutual hate cannot be completely disconnected from religion. Of course there are other factors, but it is IMHO important.

It's a bit sad all. But I have to say, both religions strengthen the 'us vs them' attitude. Both religions are highly nationalistic for example. It's bound to create clashes over disputed territory.
 
KAding said:
Well, I think both Zionism and much of the Muslim resistance to it is religiously motivated, so I think this mutual hate cannot be completely disconnected from religion. Of course there are other factors, but it is IMHO important.

It's a bit sad all. But I have to say, both religions strengthen the 'us vs them' attitude. Both religions are highly nationalistic for example. It's bound to create clashes over disputed territory.
Click to expand...

It is a dispute over Justice. The land claim to Israel by two Judean tribes is unlawful. Scenario:

12 sons are given 12 houses in a trust fund. 2 of these brothers decide they don't like being out-voted by the other 10 who disagree with them in terms of how the trust is handled. So, the 2 sons hire a hit-man to kill their 10 brothers, and then apply to inherit their property.

If this case appeared before an American court, the 2 sons would not be allowed to inherit the land, life insurance or estate of their 10 other brothers. The 2 sons would go to jail for murder.

Now that's just the legal issue. Then there is the religious issue. According to the Torah, it is forbidden for one tribe to claim the inheritence (land or otherwise) of another tribe... tell me G-d, didn't see all this coming, lol. Technically, their state is unlawful in both legal and religious terms, so why should the Arabs honor or recognize it? Since when should criminal conduct become... legal?

Ninth Scribe
 
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My teacher just gave me a lecture on this and ill try to explain it with my limited knowledge so bear with me.

(Historical perspective)
-Moses was told about the promised land
-Jews belive the promised land is Israel
-Jews were driven out and and wandered across the world for like over 2000 years

(after many centuries)

-Hitler decided to start the holocaust
-Hitler is defeated but anti semetism was still high
-Jews really had no place to go
-UN decided to give Jews a piece of the land
-Palestineans are pissed off now cuz theve been living there for so long
-Jews still want to return to their Promised land
-UN intervenes and forces the creation of Israel
-Arabian countries aint so happy about it and try to regain the land back
-USA/UN (i forgot which) decides to support Isreal by funding them with tonnes of weapons
-fighting going on since

and yea, correct me if im wrong, hope that helped
 
Shadow said:
(Historical perspective)
-Moses was told about the promised land
-Jews belive the promised land is Israel
-Jews were driven out and and wandered across the world for like over 2000 years

(after many centuries)

-Hitler decided to start the holocaust
-Hitler is defeated but anti semetism was still high
-Jews really had no place to go
-UN decided to give Jews a piece of the land
-Palestineans are pissed off now cuz theve been living there for so long
-Jews still want to return to their Promised land
-UN intervenes and forces the creation of Israel
-Arabian countries aint so happy about it and try to regain the land back
-USA/UN (i forgot which) decides to support Isreal by funding them with tonnes of weapons
-fighting going on since
Click to expand...

That will be the USA.

1947-48: The fact is that there was a resolution after the 2nd World War that stated the creation of a state called Israël on Palestinian land. The intention was to split the land into two parts en form two states: Israël and Palestine. There were two problems with that. The Arabic countries weren't glad with the formation of a jewish state between all the islamic states and even more, Jerusalem was also a point of discussion. On the other hand Israël wanted entire Jerusalem and the entire ground. They were not satisfied with the land they got.

The Arabic people planned to regain the land that was lost to Israël, but Israël withstood the attack quite easily and in a counterattack they conquered some extra land from Palestine. They were not the only ones. Even Syria conquered some land that moment that was normally for the jewish state in Palestine.

1956: There was the Suez crisis in Egypt and Israël got into war with Egypt. ISraël conquered the Sinai Peninsula and gave it back during the peace resolution afterwards. Israël also got free passage through Suez canal. Israël retraeted from Sinai and Gaza, where a UN-task force was stationed.

1963: Nasser, with the support of the Arabic leaders, blocked the free passage through the Suez canal. UN retreats from Gaza and Israël finds the situation very threatening. He decides to attack and this leads to the Six-Day War. Israël wins the war and conquers new ground: Golan Heights, Gaza Strip, the West Bank and the Sinai Peninsula. They don't listen a second time to the UN who ask to retreat from the conqueed land in exchange for acknowledged existence behind safe borders.

Later the unison of the Arabic world started to fall apart as country after country acknowledged the existence of the state of Israël. This way Egypt gets back the Sinai Peninsula.

I guess the stories behind Sabra and Shatila, and behind the two itifadas are well-known.
 
Ninth_Scribe said:
It is a dispute over Justice. The land claim to Israel by two Judean tribes is unlawful. Scenario:

12 sons are given 12 houses in a trust fund. 2 of these brothers decide they don't like being out-voted by the other 10 who disagree with them in terms of how the trust is handled. So, the 2 sons hire a hit-man to kill their 10 brothers, and then apply to inherit their property.

If this case appeared before an American court, the 2 sons would not be allowed to inherit the land, life insurance or estate of their 10 other brothers. The 2 sons would go to jail for murder.

Now that's just the legal issue. Then there is the religious issue. According to the Torah, it is forbidden for one tribe to claim the inheritence (land or otherwise) of another tribe... tell me G-d, didn't see all this coming, lol. Technically, their state is unlawful in both legal and religious terms, so why should the Arabs honor or recognize it? Since when should criminal conduct become... legal?

Ninth Scribe
Click to expand...

By your logic, the Jews should then have full rights to the "two tribes" lands, which include, Jerusalem, and much more. Therefore, in your opinion, many Arabs living on the West Bank have no right to be there.


Historical perspective)
-Moses was told about the promised land
-Jews belive the promised land is Israel
-Jews were driven out and and wandered across the world for like over 2000 years

(after many centuries)

-Hitler decided to start the holocaust
-Hitler is defeated but anti semetism was still high
-Jews really had no place to go
-UN decided to give Jews a piece of the land
-Palestineans are pissed off now cuz theve been living there for so long
-Jews still want to return to their Promised land
-UN intervenes and forces the creation of Israel
-Arabian countries aint so happy about it and try to regain the land back
-USA/UN (i forgot which) decides to support Isreal by funding them with tonnes of weapons
-fighting going on since

and yea, correct me if im wrong, hope that helped
Click to expand...

Your "account" of what happend, has many errors, and comes from a very bias view point, judging your tone.
 
:sl:

I forgot to mention that the Jewish tribes hostilities towards the Muslims and the Prophet (saw) is another reason,the three Jewish tribes in Medina, B. Qaynuqa, B. Nadheer and B. Quraytha broke their covenant with the Muslims and tried to assassinate the Prophet (saw) many times.

:w:
 
IzakHalevas said:
By your logic, the Jews should then have full rights to the "two tribes" lands, which include, Jerusalem, and much more. Therefore, in your opinion, many Arabs living on the West Bank have no right to be there.
Click to expand...

Not true. The lots of land that comprise Benjamin and Judah are quite small and have no port cities. The land of the 10 tribes is enourmous and includes port cities... this is what I feel should be given to Palestine to help her heal.

According to the Torah, the Judeans do have a claim to Jerusalem... but the Jews can't use the Torah to defend that claim because they are currently in violation of the Torah (specifically: Book of Numbers 36:9).

Also, I don't like the concept of Jerusalem becoming a tourist's destination vacation. It should not be governed by any nation. It should become a separate state (like the Vatican), to be ruled by a religious council.

They should have dealt fairly with their brothers, but they can atone for that sin by dealing fairly with their half-brothers.

Mother has spoken~~~~

Ninth Scribe
 
`Abd al-Azeez said:
:sl:

I forgot to mention that the Jewish tribes hostilities towards the Muslims and the Prophet (saw) is another reason,the three Jewish tribes in Medina, B. Qaynuqa, B. Nadheer and B. Quraytha broke their covenant with the Muslims and tried to assassinate the Prophet (saw) many times.

:w:
Click to expand...

Prophets and Messengers are always mistreated... especially by their own people, so it's expected that if they aren't respected by their own, they won't be respected by others either. Have you ever heard the phrase: Don't shoot the messenger?

Spreads wings and shakes an arsenal's worth of bullets from feathers....

There's just no pleasing any of you guys!

Jeesh!
 

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