Jilbab

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Thx for sharing that with us i will use it to the best of my knowledge!

but i dont even hav a sourcing for it :?

 

[S_87]

no one has even answered my question or had any comment on it...i was asking....will u not be more of a target when u were the jilbab in an environment where there arent many muslims?? can u not cover urself but not wear the actual jailbab???

to sister nahid ill answer your questions .just give me time. im busy atm.

jilbab is prescribed so that we are recognised as muslim women. so being in non muslim society doesnt make a difference

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:

It was reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“There are two types of the people of Hell that I have not seen yet: men with whips like the tails of cattle, with which they strike the people, and women who are clothed yet naked, walking with an enticing gait, with something on their heads that looks like the humps of camels, leaning to one side. They will never enter Paradise or even smell its fragrance, although its fragrance can be detected from such and such a distance.” (Narrated by Ahmad and by Muslim in al-Saheeh)

explanation of the hadith:
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=47017&dgn=4


:wasalamex

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:

It was reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“There are two types of the people of Hell that I have not seen yet: men with whips like the tails of cattle, with which they strike the people, and women who are clothed yet naked, walking with an enticing gait, with something on their heads that looks like the humps of camels, leaning to one side. They will never enter Paradise or even smell its fragrance, although its fragrance can be detected from such and such a distance.” (Narrated by Ahmad and by Muslim in al-Saheeh)

explanation of the hadith:
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=47017&dgn=4


:wasalamex

THANK YOU SO MUCH AKHEE!!! JAZAKALLAH KHAIR, BARAKALLAH FEEKUM!!

Wel narvy, there u hav it!
Fear Allah if you believe the above!!!

 

[S_87]

I disagree with your interpretation of the words. What is actually said? That translation - which is comparatively close to the Arabic - says the following:
men and women should both cover their private parts
and onwards

no matter how its interpreted we need to look at what the women in the time of muhammed :arabic5: did when the verse was revealed. that in itself explains the ayah for us as they understood and had better understaning than us.

I disagree again. Ask my grandmother about trying to work while dressed in those outfits - this is why working women adopted jeans and pants and the like,

its v easy...

 

[------]

Erm....Sfe!

 

[NahidSarvy]

no matter how its interpreted we need to look at what the women in the time of muhammed :arabic5: did when the verse was revealed. that in itself explains the ayah for us as they understood and had better understaning than us. its v easy...

That's exactly what I did: I examined how people lived in that time and to what the verses pertain. It is an innovation to claim that the verses claim what they do not. This is a modern notion.

In ancient times, one held off pride and jealousy of others by covering one's head and face the more power a person was displaying in public. Thus it is that Muhammad came to Khadija after the Angel spoke to him and commanded him to recite and he asked her to cover him with her garment.

So also did famous men cover their heads and their faces with the lithma - the person who does this is al-mutalitthim(a) - in ancient times. Men also could use the tails of the 3imama or of the kufiyya, and based on laws passed in the tenth century of the common era, women also wore 3imamāt.

In fact, often slave or "client" men and women would be punished for covering up beyond the minimum coverage of the saw'āt and (for women) of the jayb. It is said that 3Umar ibn al-Khattāb, the second Khalîfa, saw a slave girl in qina' (a facemask) and beat her, saying, "Are you trying to imitate a free woman?" (Abû 3Abd-al-Lāh al-3Abdarî ibn al-Hajj, Al-Madkhal.)

Poor but free people were also banned from covering the face because they were without power; in a pinch, they might use their al-manādil "handkerchiefs" - the Druze maintain this custom for holy men and women, or 3Uqqālāt.

However, al-muqanna'āt were only those in Arab society who had power. Their veiling of head and face was to ward off jealousy and danger from those who might recognise them, give them the evil eye.

Sahîh al-Bukharî, 5360 and Abû Dawûd 3561 speak of the Prophet as mutaqanni'an "wearing the qina'"; Bukharî also reports in 934 that the Prophet entered into 3A'isha's quarters while covering his face with his garment. In both cases, Abû Bakr was present.

Veiling shows social power - in ancient (and modern) Arabia, you veil to provide yourself with privacy from jealousy or even to hide one's face at the bazaar during a "ceasefire" so that others wouldn't be tempted to strike at a tempting target. Some men were called Dhu Khimār "Veiled One", including Al-Aswas al-3Ansî (3Ablaha ibn Ka3b) and 3Awf ibn ar-Rabî' ibn dhî r-Ramahayn.

Consider what is said of 3A'isha bint Abî Bakr: that when she went to rally her people to fight 3Alî ibn Abî Tālib, she went to the masjid and covered herself before speaking. She was not veiled before, but only when she was going to speak, making her a public figure. It was not because she was a woman and men should not look at women, but because she was a person of power, and they covered themselves out of custom.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:

It was reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“There are two types of the people of Hell that I have not seen yet: men with whips like the tails of cattle, with which they strike the people, and women who are clothed yet naked, walking with an enticing gait, with something on their heads that looks like the humps of camels, leaning to one side. They will never enter Paradise or even smell its fragrance, although its fragrance can be detected from such and such a distance.” (Narrated by Ahmad and by Muslim in al-Saheeh)

explanation of the hadith:
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=47017&dgn=4


:wasalamex

NAHID READ THIS!!!

 

[NahidSarvy]

NAHID READ THIS!!!

Nahid read that.

I am not a woman walking with an enticing gait, wearing see-through clothing.

I am a modest person. And I don't do the things the hadith condemns, do I? I alread said that. I do as the Qur'ân asks: I cover as-saw'a and cover jaybî "my cleavage". Just because I do it with clothing best suited for my culture and society doesn't make me hellbent. I also don't ride camels around the city but rather the metro and buses and I use flush toilets. Should I be condemned for this? What about my toothbrush? Is that forbidden as well? Need I use sticks and horse urine because that is what was the custom of 6th century Arabia?

I see nothing that forbids me from wearing modest western clothing. I see nothing condemning anything.

Is there something else I should learn from that Hadith?

 

[Rabi'ya]

good thread mashAllah

an excellent read



Rabi'ya:rose:

 

[*noor]

asalamu alaikum
it is necessary to cover ourselves- both men and women.
women can only show hands and face.
men have to covr from knees to navel
its different because of both the phsiological and psychological ways that Allah has created us.

 

[S_87]

That's exactly what I did: I examined how people lived in that time and to what the verses pertain. It is an innovation to claim that the verses claim what they do not. This is a modern notion.

.

i want proof for what youve said please specially with regards to the following

Poor but free people were also banned from covering the face because they were without power

as it sure contradicts such as


Al-Bukhaari (324) and Muslim (890) narrated that Umm ‘Atiyyah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded us to bring them (women) out on (Eid) al-Fitr and (Eid) al-Adha, and to bring out adolescent girls, menstruating women and virgins, but the menstruating women were to stay away from the prayer, but were to witness goodness and the gathering of the Muslims. I said: “O Messenger of Allaah, what if one of us does not have a jilbaab?” He said: “Let her sister lend her a jilbab.”

i mean, a woman was told to come with a jilbab, rich or poor!

+ check this e-book out. it explains everything Alhumdulillah
http://www.al-ibaanah.com/cms/pdf_files/46.pdf

 

[NahidSarvy]

asalamu alaikum
it is necessary to cover ourselves- both men and women.
women can only show hands and face.
men have to covr from knees to navel
its different because of both the phsiological and psychological ways that Allah has created us.

You have no proof or discussion here, just statements of your personal belief. What do you mean by "its different because of both the phsiological and psychological ways that Allah has created us", and how do you respond to my comments except by what you think is the custom?

God orders us to commit to the greater jihad, each one of us, and that means not taking for granted but learning for ourselves. There is no priesthood in Islam; we must each learn and think.

 

[NahidSarvy]

i want proof for what youve said please specially with regards to the following as it sure contradicts such as

Al-Bukhaari (324) and Muslim (890) narrated that Umm ‘Atiyyah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded us to bring them (women) out on (Eid) al-Fitr and (Eid) al-Adha, and to bring out adolescent girls, menstruating women and virgins, but the menstruating women were to stay away from the prayer, but were to witness goodness and the gathering of the Muslims. I said: “O Messenger of Allaah, what if one of us does not have a jilbaab?” He said: “Let her sister lend her a jilbab.”

i mean, a woman was told to come with a jilbab, rich or poor!

So poor women have no jilâbab. Great. How does that match up with what I said? Perfectly. The Prophet's revelation was about the early time of the Muslims, when they were being oppressed and he wanted the women to be seen as powerful women. Thus they should wear jilâbab. It does not mean that in the modern world, we should wear a long shirtdress over our bodies. It was specific to a time and place, a particular situation, not for all eternity. Should I wear a jilbâb in Alaska? What about in Louisiana? What about in New England? It's not reasonable.

+ check this e-book out. it explains everything Alhumdulillah
http://www.al-ibaanah.com/cms/pdf_files/46.pdf

That document repeats that the Prophet wanted the women Believers to pass as wealthy women so they would not be harassed. This would be specific to a time and place, because it is not applicable to the cultures of today.

Second, it argues that I must also veil my face and cover my hands because I might tempt a man, which is ridiculous. If men can't control themselves, they should wear blinders, not make all women wrap themselves in swaddling cloths.

 

[S_87]

So poor women have no jilâbab. Great. How does that match up with what I said? Perfectly. The Prophet's revelation was about the early time of the Muslims, when they were being oppressed and he wanted the women to be seen as powerful women. Thus they should wear jilâbab. It does not mean that in the modern world, we should wear a long shirtdress over our bodies. It was specific to a time and place, a particular situation, not for all eternity. Should I wear a jilbâb in Alaska? What about in Louisiana? What about in New England? It's not reasonable.That document repeats that the Prophet wanted the women Believers to pass as wealthy women so they would not be harassed. This would be specific to a time and place, because it is not applicable to the cultures of today.

Second, it argues that I must also veil my face and cover my hands because I might tempt a man, which is ridiculous. If men can't control themselves, they should wear blinders, not make all women wrap themselves in swaddling cloths.

the Quraan is here as a guidance for all mankind. all time all place whether youre in the middle of a desert or in timbuktu. in year 10ah or in year 2000ah. the Qurans ruling does not change with time. of course its appicable in todays soceity. infact its just as needed.
we wear it so we are recognised as muslim women.

 

[NahidSarvy]

the Quraan is here as a guidance for all mankind. all time all place whether youre in the middle of a desert or in timbuktu. in year 10ah or in year 2000ah. the Qurans ruling does not change with time. of course its appicable in todays soceity.

The Qur'ân may be for all time, but you can't be literalist about some verses and not about others. And many verses require explanation and elucidation to understand.

My argument is not that we don't have to do what the verses say, but that the correct understanding is not that we have to wear the clothing of 6th century Arabia. The correct understanding is what the verses say. E.g., an-Nûr, 30-1: "tell the believing men to cover their saw'ât & tell your daughters, wives and the believing women to cover their saw'ât and use their khimâr when outside to cover their juyûb."

• Does this mean "wear the khimar"? No. It was what everyone wore in that climate, men and women. It means to use clothing that covers al-juyûb.
• Do believers have to wear a loincloth now because that is what the first believers wore? No. They wear underwear appropriate to our day and age.
• Do men and women wear khimar and jilbâb now because that is what the first believers wore? No. They wear clothing appropriate to their day and age.
• Do believers have to cover their saw'ât? Yes. It is clearly stated that believers - male and female - must be modest with their sight and they must cover their genitals.
• Do believing women have to cover their jaybs? Yes. This originally meant you wrap your outerwear over your breasts; clothing was simple and untailored in those days. Nowadays, we should find an appropriate way to do the same.

infact its just as needed. we wear it so we are recognised as muslim women.

I think there are better ways for us to be recognised as Muslimât than wearing ancient clothing. Early Muslims, men and women, dressed in the same clothing as those around them, but wore it in a distinctive way. God wants us to eschew class distinctions: share your clothing with those who cannot afford modesty.

We can be believers and stand out without having to wear silly hats.

 

[renak]

There is no priesthood in Islam; we must each learn and think.

This nicely sums up what I believe to be true about Islam, and how my beliefs affect my decision to forgo hijab. My decision to adhere to modern dress is based upon the research I've done within Islamic texts. The fact that I do not feel compelled to wear hijab is in no way meant to be a direct insult to Islam or Islamic people.

As NahidSarvy stated above, the fact that Islam does not have a priesthood, should compel each of us to conduct our own research and derive our own opinions. This is one of the beautiful elements of Islam.

 

[Malaikah]

I think there are better ways for us to be recognised as Muslimât than wearing ancient clothing. Early Muslims, men and women, dressed in the same clothing as those around them, but wore it in a distinctive way. God wants us to eschew class distinctions: share your clothing with those who cannot afford modesty.

We can be believers and stand out without having to wear silly hats.

you correct in one way, that we dont have to wear the clothes worn by women of the prophets time. BUT we do have to cover our awra and the womens awra is everything excluding the face and hands (some may argue that the feet are also exluded while some beleive the whole body is awra). its doesnt matter if you wear a paper bag, as long as it covers you up. i dont know why you are arguing about the stlye of clothes since i really doubt any women in the prophets time wore anything remotely similar to the type of hijab i, and many muslims my age, wear.

 

[NahidSarvy]

you correct in one way, that we dont have to wear the clothes worn by women of the prophets time. BUT we do have to cover our awra and the womens awra is everything excluding the face and hands (some may argue that the feet are also exluded bhile some beleive the whole body is awra). its doesnt matter if you wear a paper bag, as long as it covers you up. i dont know why you are arguing about the stlye of clothes since i really doubt any women in the prophets time wore anything remotely similar to the type of hijab i, and many muslims my age, wear.

ʕAwra, ʕawra, ʕawra! Forgive me, sister, but this word is a curse in my ears.

ʕAwra is constantly used to enforce fear of our bodies, to make everything except our face or feet or even only our eyes forbidden. But this word doesn't mean anything of the sort!

In the Qur'ān, the word ʕawra is used in 33:13 and in the plural (ʕawrāt) in 24:31 and 24:58. Its definition is "weak point, spot or moment". It is used as a euphemism for the pudendum in one of those verses, but it is not a word meaning "things what we must cover up because we are born female" - or "blemish", which is how I see it explained in English all too often. This is the word I always hear - "cover your ʕawrāt!"

So how does God's book speak of ʕawrāt? (I put eunuchs in quotations in the following because the term is not the same as English, meaning men who are not interested in women for sex, either asexual or homosexual.)

Sūratu n-Nūr, 31 -

...and male slaves or "eunuchs" or underage boys not yet sexually mature for contact with women's ʕawrāt in intercourse.

This does not mean your body, but your sawʕāt.

Sūratu n-Nūr, 58:

O believers, "eunuchs" and underage boys should not intrude upon your privacy on three occasions/times of day: before fajr prayer, when you are resting at noon and after ʕisha prayer. There are three ʕawrāt, outside of which interaction is not held against you or them...

This emphatically does not have anything to do with women's bodies.

Sūratu l-Ahzāb, 13:

...if a group of them ask the Prophet for leave, saying, "truly our homes are ʕawra," though they were not ʕawra, then their intent was to flee the battle.

In the ahādīth, there are additional uses of this word, and a common theme is men being prohibited from wearing a garment that exposes their ʕawra when they bend over or sit or cross their legs - it is used along with the term sawʕa when talking about teaching men how to pray and that they must wear something that does not show their "vulnerability".

Maybe "vulnerability that should be inviolate" is a better explanation of the meaning of this word.

All I know is that it is not used in the Qur'ān and ahādīth to mean our entire bodies except (insert choice of allowed areas: face, hands, eyes, nothing). It is used for the genital regions of both sexes, for time periods where you should not be disturbed and for homes in danger of being plundered. That doesn't include my hair, arms, feet, hands, or anything else not commanded by God to be covered, e.g. the sawʕa and the jayb.

If women are equal in Islam, why does the accident of our birth dictate a life circumscribed by living behind walls of fabric?

I respect muhajjaba, but I do not agree it is required or fard or even recommended. God wouldn't have said "cover your genitals and your cleavage" if the intent was to wrap us from head to toe in fabric.

 

[Malaikah]

id like to know where you got your interpretations of these verses from and how on earth you managed to develop this opinion that pretty much no scholar has? the 4 madhabs all pretty much agree on the matter that hijab is fard and but i think they diff in terms of the extent of the covering up, with the most lenient being the hand and face. what makes you differ? Please provide a reliable source.