Judge this shocking hadeeth by the Qur'an

[lolwatever]

^Wa'salam.... Ahh maybe. But what's the punishment for stealing zAk's computer or inciting others to do so? lol. I tried searching the punishment for thieves but to no avail. OK what about this:




So was it one shepherd or more? :?

allahu alam.. perhaps teh propehts herder was around with other shepherds so the different narrations mentioned the individual herder and the other mentioend the group?

but thats not the point of the hadith i guess.

salamz

 

[akulion]

Misunderstood Hadith and Quranic Verses on Women

Women are evil omens

Once the Prophet of Allah, Mohammed said, If there is an evil omen in anything, it is in the house, the woman and the horse. [Sahih Bukhari Narrated by Ibn Umar]

The above Hadith is an authentic Hadith (saying of the prophet). Yet when someone would read they would surely say, 'oh my God that is just so sexist!' However, this is not a literal Hadith, it is a metaphoric one. The house in the saying represents 'property', the woman in the saying represents 'beauty' and the horse represents 'a ride - as a status symbol'. Ask yourself these questions:

Is it not greed for wealth and property which make many people do the wrong things?

Is it not the quest for beauty which often causes many people to hurt others feelings and reject perfectly decent and honest men and women for marriage. Or even to go and get cosmetic surgeries - breast implants, penile extensions, and who knows what else!

Is not a 'cool car' a symbol of your status, and causes many to go to extreme lengths to obtain the coolest car? would you much rather drive a Mercedes Benz or a scooter, and why?

That is what that particular saying of the Prophet means, that these three things are evil omens and can cause many people to do the wrong things. It is not at all meant to be derogatory to women.

 

[lolwatever]

^ bro fi sab explained that hadith wasnt quoted in full..

but alalh does say about husbands, wives, kids, kin that detract from worship of Allah "there are from ur spouses that are enemies 2u, so beware of them"
salams

 

[akulion]

The other 2 hadith you have mentioned I have never heard before so they will require study on my behalf - thus for now I do not possess enough knowledge to be able to shed any light on them.

Insha'Allah with the guidance of Allah we will have an answer soon

 

[akulion]

As for the verse you refer to which says "there are from ur spouses that are enemies 2u, so beware of them"

It refers to people from amongst your children and spouces who are enemies to you...this refers to corrupt and evil individuals.

As everyone is aware not every muslim is sinless and is subject to the lure and corruption spread by the shaitan.

so that specific verse warns people to be vigilant and not become blind and follow everything that their family may say or do

that is why we are to learn so we can distinguish right from wrong and also that is why we are commanded not to obey our parents if they are commanding evil acts.

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:

As for branding their eyes, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) branded the eyes of the people of `Ukl or `Uraina with iron because they killed the herder and branded his eyes with iron. Imam Ibn Hajar stated the differences of opinions among scholars and he said, “The killing that took place (that is, in reference to the above hadith) was in retaliation and Allah Almighty says,

‘And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you’ (Al-Baqarah: 194).”



It should be made clear that those people who came to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) were Muslims and they were sick. The Prophet advised them to go to the herd of camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). When they became healthy, they killed the herder of the Prophet and drove away all the camels that were allocated for sadaqah (charity). When the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) came to know about this, he applied the punishment for Hirabah on them. Hiraba means killing people, robbing their money or raping women by an armed group of people. The punishment for Hirabah is mentioned in the Qur’an. Allah says:

“The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His Messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom” (Al-Ma’idah: 33). ​

That's why the punishment may have been so severe, and Allaah Almighty knows best.


:wasalamex

 

[Snowflake]

Women Confined for Indecency.
If a woman is accused by four witnesses of indecency and she confesses to it, confine her to her home until she dies. If two men are convicted for the same thing they should both be punished but if they repent leave them alone (4:15,16).

What's the reason behind the different punishments? :?

Plz ignore if it is off topic.. I just wanted to understand it.

 

[Ibn al-Mubarak]

Amazing. Take a few isolated hadith, without context, add some confusion, not forgetting the element of doubt, top it off with some arrogance.. give it a couple of years to think..and voila you have an Apostate.

You should be very very careful sister, you're stepping on dangerous ground here. Did you find all those ahadith yourself after going through Imam Bukharis collection or maybe you found them on hadith rejectors or kafirs 'refutation' sites? Doesn't that tell you something? It is their sole purpose to twist and take things out of context just to prove their points. I dont deny the that those ahadith exist but how on earth do you expect to understand it without any historical context, knowledge of arabic, and all disciplines pertinent to being granted a full, complete understanding of the deen? If dont qualify for all that, ask a scholar, and follow the majority. There is ijmaa' consensus that the contents of Imam Bukharis collection is the most authentic of collections and has no fabrications.

First you will have doubts in hadith, which will slowly lead to doubts in the Quran, because you will never be able to comprehend the Quran without following the sunnah as an explanation for it. What comes after that is not worth describing.

 

[S_87]

agreed. theres nothing wrong with asking but theres also manners with asking, dont challenge what you dont know

 

[akulion]

If we all come to common grounds that we are here to learn and understand then there is no harm in learning

However I would ask all participants to have patience and not jump to conclusions - especially since there are no scholars of hadith or Quran present in this company.

So we will require research into the matter to fully comprehend it insha'Allah

 

[azim]

Asalaamu alaykum.

Sister ScentsofJannah, as Muslims we have faith in Allah to preserve Islam. Once Allah has put faith into our hearts, and confirmed his signs to us, then it us up to us to 'hear and obey'.

The Messenger (Muhammad SAW) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allah, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. They say, "We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers" - and they say, "We hear, and we obey. (We seek) Your Forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the return (of all)." 2/285

It's not correct to try and accept and reject hadith based on whether we find them offensive or shocking, or the behaviour unacceptable.

Our knowledge is so limited we can't claim to understand or fathom many things. Remember the story in Surah-al-Khaf about Musa (as) and the man he went to visit. The actions we're beyond Musa's (as) understanding and seemed unacceptable, but the truth was that the actions we fair and just.

Trying to argue the strength of validity or hadith (or all ahadith completely) should be done by those who are advanced in knowledge of those subjects.

Asalaamu alaykum.

 

[akulion]

As for the verses that the sister posted concerning punishment of lewdness....

These 2 verses must be dealt with seperately since they deal with 2 different senarios altogether.


In 4:15 the first we see the commandment of a single woman being guilty of lewedness. Note here that it is not specified wether it is fornication or adultery - that is why the verse commands that they must be 'confined' until further commandment is recieved.

By the verse alone it was not possible to tell which category of lewedness was being referrd to since to protect the honor of women, stricter evidence is required: the evidence of four instead of the usual two witnesses. It is the same for adultery, so the distinction could not be made by this alone.

We must remember Quran came down in parts - later on the commandments for the 2 different kinds of lewedness : Fornication and Adultery were revealed. So the confinement no longer applies but rather the dealing of the direct punishment applies which is:
- flogging for fornication
- stoning to death for adultery

In 4:16 we see the mention of 2 men commiting lewedness. The question that arises here is why are 2 men mentioned and not 1 ?

It is best understood to mean that the 2 men have commtted lewedness with EACH OTHER, therefore this verse is best understood to deal with homosexuality.

They are to be punished unles they repent and change their way.

However if we read on the follwin verses: 17 and 18 we will see more to shed light for us...

17: Allah accepts the repentance of those who do evil in ignorance and repent soon afterwards; to them will Allah turn in mercy; for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.

18 Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil until death faces one of them and he says "Now have I repented indeed"; nor of those who die rejecting faith: for them have We prepared a punishment most grievous.

So from the above 2 verses we are told that there is a condition on the repentance of the repenters - that they must not fall into the same sins again and continue doing them or die in that state.

======================

hope that helped sis - thats all i know best to my knowledge

 

[Duhaa]

About punishment we must understand that our beloved Prophet S.A.W. was the prophet and it was unto him that the qur'aan and orders revealed, and so maybe (thinking from a self point of view) at the time this was the best punishment to give? Maybe wahee was given and our beloved Prophet S.A.W. acted on it and we must realise that our beloved Prophet S.A.W. would never act against Allah's wishes.

This may have been pointed out in a previous post, so sorry if I am repeating something which has already been said....
.........But I just wanted to point something which my usaatizaa have taught me which is to think about things which may not be so obvious.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Wallahi, the thing I find most absurd about this issue is that there are people coming out today finding things and "contradictions" in the most Sahih of Sahih books, the most authentic books after the Quran when the over millions of scholors for the past 1300 years + did not find any. When they are using their limited knowledge to question Hadiths and using their limited understanding to find "contradictions".

Its sad, when the muslims today, instead of following what has been agreed upon for over 1300 years, start claiming that they are finding errors when it is their insufficient knowledge and lack of understanding that is the problem. Why dont we follow what has been agreed upon for over such a long time and move on?

4:65 But no, by your Lord (O Muhammad), they have no Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.

 

[Janissary]

It's not correct to try and accept and reject hadith based on whether we find them offensive or shocking, or the behaviour unacceptable.

Shocking is one issue, and I agree that we shouldn't delude ourselves to think that we absolutely know right from wrong. However, hadiths that contradict the Quran are a different matter. Then it's not a matter of our personal aesthetics going against what we read. Then it's a matter of the hadith going against the foundation of our faith.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Shocking is one issue, and I agree that we shouldn't delude ourselves to think that we absolutely know right from wrong. However, hadiths that contradict the Quran are a different matter. Then it's not a matter of our personal aesthetics going against what we read. Then it's a matter of the hadith going against the foundation of our faith.

The Hadith and the Quran cannot contradict each other. That is an established fact. The hadiths that are out there today that are Sahih and those that are present in the agreed books do not contradict the Quran in any way even though for us, laymen, it may seem as they do. Once a person gets an understanding of the Hadith and the Quran they see that they do no contradict. And if millions of scholors (scholors including the Sahaba, and the Tabieen, and the Tabatabieen) over the past 1400 years have not seen a contradiction, who are we, people who do not even know all the basics of the religion to jump and say that they contradict when it is actually our lack of understanding?

 

[rubiesand]

Rats are the lost tribe of Israel because they drink not the camel's milk, but drink goat’s milk (Sahih Bukhari, Beginning of Creation 2:244).

Can't find this so-called hadith anywhere except on anti-hadith sites. The reference given does not even exist in the Sahih Bukhari as far as I can see. Makes me wonder how low the anti-hadith folks are prepared to go to promote their cause?

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

The hadith is in Bukhari and a variation of it is in Muslim but the Hadith rejectors as always twist, misinterpret, and transform the hadiths. They use their hatred of the Prophet to defame him and put his word under theirs.

1. O you who believe! Do not put (yourselves) forward before Allah and His Messenger (

), and fear Allah. Verily! Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.

2. O you who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet (

), nor speak aloud to him in talk as you speak aloud to one another, lest your deeds may be rendered fruitless while you perceive not.


They who claim to follow only the Quran fail to see the above verses. No, they only follow their own desires.

The Hadith above is not in its complete form. Here is the actual Hadith:

Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 54 :: Hadith 524

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "A group of Israelites were lost. Nobody knows what they did. But I do not see them except that they were cursed and changed into rats, for if you put the milk of a she-camel in front of a rat, it will not drink it, but if the milk of a sheep is put in front of it, it will drink it." I told this to Ka'b who asked me, "Did you hear it from the Prophet ?" I said, "Yes." Ka'b asked me the same question several times.; I said to Ka'b. "Do I read the Torah? (i.e. I tell you this from the Prophet.)"

Muslim :: Book 42 : Hadith 7135

Abu Huraira reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: A group of Bani Isra'il was lost. I do not know what happened to it, but I think (that it 'underwent a process of metamorphosis) and assumed the shape of rats. Don't you see when the milk of the camel is placed before them, these do not drink and when the milk of goat is placed before them, these do drink. Abu Huraira said: I narrated this very hadith to Ka'b and he said: Did you hear this from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? I (Abu Huraira) said: Yes. He said this again and again, and I said: Have I read Torah? This hadith has been transmitted on the authority of Ishaq with a slight variation of wording.
Muslim :: Book 42 : Hadith 7136

Abu Huraira reported that the rat (is the result of) metamorphosis (of a group of Bani Isra'il) and the proof of this is that when the milk of goat is placed before it, it drinks it, and when the milk of the camel is placed before it, it would not taste it at all. Ka'b said: Did you hear it from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? Thereupon he said: Has Torah been revealed to me?

I dont see a problem in beleiving this. What is in this hadith that goes against logic? If you beleive that Allah created the heavens and the earth then it is easy for him to transform a people into rats. The Quran does say that groups of people were transformed into animals.

2: 65. And indeed you knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath(i.e. Saturday). We said to them: "Be you monkeys, despised and rejected."

5:60 Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah. those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"

The Hadith rejectors are people who understand neither the Quran nor the hadiths, their rejection of Hadith is infact a rejection of the Quran.

 

[snakelegs]

However, this is not a literal Hadith, it is a metaphoric one. The house in the saying represents 'property', the woman in the saying represents 'beauty' and the horse represents 'a ride - as a status symbol'.

who determines whether a given hadith is literal or metaphorical?

 

[lolwatever]

^ actually i think that thing that akulion wrote is overwritten by bro Fi_sab's explanation that the hadith was one where the prophet quoted that line..


as for literal/metaphorical.. it depends like in what situation? the metaphors presented in quran are pretty distinct compared to obvious things.. say for example whent he prophet asid 'a believer is like a palm tree... provides shade, produces good things (dates) and his product tastes sweet'... that's an obvious metaphor..

where as something along lines of 'those who insult the prophet are disbelievers'.. isnt metaphorical.

tc all the best