Just a question about Islam...
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The Biblical Version states
"And the angle answered and said into her : 'The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee" (Luke 1:35)
"Now the birth of Jesus Christ was in this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, (as husband and wife) she was found with child of the holy ghost."(Matthew 1:18)
Can't you see that you are giving the atheist, the skeptic, the agnostic a stick to beat you with? They may well ask "How did the Holy Ghost come upon Mary?" "How did the Highest overshadow her?" The language used here, is distasteful.
Now contrast this with the language of the Quran:
The Quranic Version
"He said (the angel says in reply): 'Even so: Allah (God) createth what He willeth: when He hath decreed a
plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!' " (3:47)
This is the Muslim concept of the birth of Jesus. For God to create a Jesus, without a human father, He merely has to will it. If He wants to create a million Jesus' without fathers or mothers, He merely wills them into existence. He does not have to take seeds and transfer them, like men or animals by contact or artificial insemination . He wills everything into being by His word of command "Be" and "It is".
There is nothing new in what I am telling you,.
It is in the very first Book of your Holy Bible,
Genesis 1:3 "And God said..." What did He say? He said "Be" and "It was".
He did not have to articulate the words. This is our way of understanding the word "Be", that He willed everything into being.
Further, if the Christian splits hairs by arguing that Adam was "created" from the dust of the ground, whereas Jesus was immaculately "begotten" in the womb of Mary, then let us remind him that, even according to his own false standards, there is yet another person greater than Jesus, in his own Bible . Who is this superman?
(Hebrews 7:1,3)
"For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God... Without father, without mother, without
descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life..."
Here is a candidate for Divinity itself, for only God Almighty could possess these qualities.
Adam had a beginning (in the garden), Jesus had a beginning (in the stable); Adam had an end and, claim the Christians, so had Jesus "and he gave up the ghost". But where is Melchisedec? Perhaps he is hibernating somewhere like Rip Van Winkel (a fairy tale character who slept for many ages.)
The Sons of God
The Muslim takes strong exception to the Christian dogma that "Jesus is the only begotten son, begotten not made". They know that according to their own God given (?) records, God has sons by the tons:
"...Adam, which was the son of God."(Luke 3:38)
"That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair... And when the sons of God came in unto
the daughters of men, and they bare children to them..." (Genesis 6: 2,4)
"...Israel is My son, even My firstborn:" (Exodus 4:22)
"...for I (God) am a Father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn." (Jeremiah 31:9)
"...the Lord hath said unto me (David): 'Thou art My son: this day have I begotten thee." (Psalms 2:7)
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." (Romans 18:14)
Can't you see that in the language of the Jew, every righteous person, every Tom, Dick and Harry who followed the Will and Plan of God, was a "Son of God". It was a metaphorical descriptive term commonly used among the Jews.
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh, brother Wayward Soul;
I find it a shame your sincere post and question has been turned into a common debate which could be dealt with on many other posts more relevant to 'Cristianity vs Islam' or whatever. So I will try to answer your question with my own experiences, which is what I think you asked for in the first place.
Brother I also grew up in the Christian faith, but after reading the Bible (which by the way is ONE of the holy sciptures, let us not forget) numerous times, I found a major contradiction between the sciptures and what other 'Christians' tried to teach in schools etc. So I could never bring myself to worship Jesus (pbuh) as God, even as a Christian I prayed to The Almighty God Himself, Allah. Now this was long before I even learnt of Islam and ever since I did discover Islam I knew there was more truth to it than that of 'Christianity'.
I have a feeling your case is similar and that you know deep down in your heart, that you have been guided to the truth. Embrace it brother, do as another brother advised in the first replies and say your Shahadah, say it every day. Keep your faith strong in your heart and indeed let it roll off the tongue.
As for the fear of what people around you will think and/or do, I also had the same feelings. Sometimes I still do but as you grow stronger in faith you will find it becomes much easier. For now, simply keep your faith just that, YOURS. Allah knows what is in our hearts brother. He even tells us we can deny our faith to the non-believers if we are in fear of harm from them, as long as we never deny it in our hearts or go back from the truth which has now been revealed to us.
You're a muslim my brother and as a muslim you will be tested by our Creator. I said my Shahada only once in public when I converted to Islam, afterwards a brother said this to me "Always remain a muslim now, bro. Even if it's a bad muslim." Ever since that day I have wayed and strayed, but I remain a muslim and advise you do the same, insha'Allah.
P.S. Try watching less television too
I find it a shame your sincere post and question has been turned into a common debate which could be dealt with on many other posts more relevant to 'Cristianity vs Islam' or whatever. So I will try to answer your question with my own experiences, which is what I think you asked for in the first place.
Brother I also grew up in the Christian faith, but after reading the Bible (which by the way is ONE of the holy sciptures, let us not forget) numerous times, I found a major contradiction between the sciptures and what other 'Christians' tried to teach in schools etc. So I could never bring myself to worship Jesus (pbuh) as God, even as a Christian I prayed to The Almighty God Himself, Allah. Now this was long before I even learnt of Islam and ever since I did discover Islam I knew there was more truth to it than that of 'Christianity'.
I have a feeling your case is similar and that you know deep down in your heart, that you have been guided to the truth. Embrace it brother, do as another brother advised in the first replies and say your Shahadah, say it every day. Keep your faith strong in your heart and indeed let it roll off the tongue.
As for the fear of what people around you will think and/or do, I also had the same feelings. Sometimes I still do but as you grow stronger in faith you will find it becomes much easier. For now, simply keep your faith just that, YOURS. Allah knows what is in our hearts brother. He even tells us we can deny our faith to the non-believers if we are in fear of harm from them, as long as we never deny it in our hearts or go back from the truth which has now been revealed to us.
You're a muslim my brother and as a muslim you will be tested by our Creator. I said my Shahada only once in public when I converted to Islam, afterwards a brother said this to me "Always remain a muslim now, bro. Even if it's a bad muslim." Ever since that day I have wayed and strayed, but I remain a muslim and advise you do the same, insha'Allah.
P.S. Try watching less television too
The Qur'an also states..
O ye People of the Book! believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming what was (already) with you, before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond all recognition, and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be carried out. - 4:47
Or do they envy mankind for what Allah hath given them of his bounty? but We had already given the people of Abraham the Book and Wisdom, and conferred upon them a great kingdom. - 4:54
So how could one say that This Bible is all full of twisted illogical lies? When The Qu'ran itself is implying The Bible is unchanged? Jesus spoke in parables throughout his whole ministry. Parables. Stories.
The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee.. yes.. and what do we think that means?
It sounds like God's presence to me. Overshadow? What does that sound like? To me, sounds like God's power.
You say God says 'Be' as God says 'Be' in Genesis. Do we believe that literal? Do we really think God spoke with his mouth, said 'Be' and it was? I thought it's blasphemy to put human attributes to God? So, God (and as Christianity teaches, The Holy Ghost is God) comes upon thee, overshadows thee, and says 'Be' and it was. How could we take 'comes upon and overshadows' literal.. and not 'Be'.
All 3 statements imply the same result.
And to the previous poster....How doesn't this go with the topic?
O ye People of the Book! believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming what was (already) with you, before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond all recognition, and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be carried out. - 4:47
Or do they envy mankind for what Allah hath given them of his bounty? but We had already given the people of Abraham the Book and Wisdom, and conferred upon them a great kingdom. - 4:54
So how could one say that This Bible is all full of twisted illogical lies? When The Qu'ran itself is implying The Bible is unchanged? Jesus spoke in parables throughout his whole ministry. Parables. Stories.
The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee.. yes.. and what do we think that means?
It sounds like God's presence to me. Overshadow? What does that sound like? To me, sounds like God's power.
You say God says 'Be' as God says 'Be' in Genesis. Do we believe that literal? Do we really think God spoke with his mouth, said 'Be' and it was? I thought it's blasphemy to put human attributes to God? So, God (and as Christianity teaches, The Holy Ghost is God) comes upon thee, overshadows thee, and says 'Be' and it was. How could we take 'comes upon and overshadows' literal.. and not 'Be'.
All 3 statements imply the same result.
And to the previous poster....How doesn't this go with the topic?
Exactly. That's exactly it. The Koran says that all God has to do is say, "Be," and something is. It does not say that this word out of His mouth is part of God Himself, or anything other than an effect He causes, like the rest of His creation. A word out of a person's mouth is a very different thing from the person himself. All God had to do was command the virgin birth to take place and it did. That means that God is not the father of Jesus (P) anymore than He is the father of the universe itself, and to the degree that He is there is no difference in the sense between the two cases.
As for the Koran confirming the Bible, I am sick to death of debunking that. Just go to the link in my signature and read my articles on the subject: I have many, and I disprove the notion six ways from Sunday.
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The books revealed unto the previous messengers as well the message was one.. what you have in your hand today has nothing to do with what the previous messengers, in spite of your self-assurances. I recommend that you read the Quran in totality and not the selective parts you desire, you may gain a bigger picture that doesn't include mengods and self-immolation and breaking of commandments ..
all the best
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Can you bring this to the comparative religions section.
I am sure plenty of our brothers and sisters will be able to help you open your eyes to see that you've been committing the most heinous blasphemy by worshiping others than One God,
and oh, by answering about your cut-and-paste "query" about the verse.
B_M, why don't you go back to the start of this thread and look at brother Wayward Souls actual question. Have you felt that guilt he speaks of, have you ever even reverted to Islam from Christianity? If so please do carry on, but if not then tell us how are you actually helping answer his question? He has obviously made his mind up about his beliefs and is quite clearly asking us Muslims to help reassure him in his faith. So what is the point in having a debate about what The Quran and The Bible says here?
Try the Quran Vs Bible thread under the General Forums section, but I honestly can't see how discussing things like jesus' (pbuh) birth etc is helping with brother Wayward Souls problem in the slightest.
Anyway, all the best to you.
Wayward Soul, may Allah give you strength to overcome the trials of this life.
Wa-Alaikum-Salaam, everyone.
It means when that Allah decrees a matter ,he merely wills it and the thing comes into being.
So you would also admit that its blasphemy for your biblical "God" to have both human and animal attributes ill-befitting him like these
(a) A "hissing" God (?) ISAIAH 5:26, 7:18, ZECHARIAH 10:8
(b) A "roaring" God (?) ISAIAH 42:13, JEREMIAH 25:30
(c) A "barber" God (?) ISAIAH 7:20
(d) A "penitent" God (?) JEREMIAH 15:6, GENESIS 6:6
(e) A God "riding" a cherub (?) 2 SAMUEL 22:11