Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10

it would be interesting to see the fine details of this situation such as:

1) where did the idea come from that there is going to be a mosque
2) who spread the news that this mosque was "going to be on" ground zero
3) what does this alleged building contain? what is it for? to my knowledge it is just a community center which happens to have a prayer room in it (correct me if im wrong).

funny how things get blown out of proportion and suddenly things get turned upside down when the terms "mosque" and "ground zero" are put in the same sentence. Goodness where are people's brains?

besides didn't the Americans take over Saddam's palace in Iraq and turn it into a military base? where are the protests about that.
 
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Most Amreekans do not have brain, unfortunately. Yesterday me and my friend went to Wal-mart, and he was wearing a thobe, as it was raining soo hard, he covered his head with his thobe, and few ladies outside walmart started screaming "OMG, what is he doing, he looks like a terrorist". I started laughing, but i thought about how ignorant these fools are.
 
Hi readers

Sometime ago I read an article in CNN about Obama’s endorsement for the construction of the controversial mosque near the Ground Zero. Although it must have been a difficult decision, I think it was the right one.

Perhaps capitalism among others represents the United States and the western world in general best. The most symbolic monument of capitalism was the World Trade Centers in New York. There were indeed impressive buildings, because I visited there several years before they were destroyed by Islamic extremists. In a sense these buildings for the westerners are equivalent to the Great Mosque of Hajj for Muslims. Although I am neither an American nor a westerner, the destruction of the Twin Towers must have been a painful humiliation to the hearts of Americans. In that sense they might have every reason to oppose the construction of the mosque near the Ground Zero. In spite of the symbolic meaning of the destruction of the World Trade Centers, I still believe the Obama administration has made the right decision based on the right of the freedom of religion. Religious freedom must be exercised everywhere, including even the most painful place. This should be a good precedent to the world including Islamic countries. Considering this example, building a church near the Great Mosque of Hajj should be even much easier because it is unlikely to be destroyed by Christian extremists. In a sense, the Obama administration demonstrated the words of Jesus to those who are involved in the political movement of Islam (conquering the world by Islam and Shariah), “But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also.” (Luke 6:27-29)

This is my personal advice to non-Muslims and particularly non-Muslim Americans. In fact many people have shown their objections and concerns to the construction of the mosque near the Ground Zero. They might have every reason for the opposition, but I believe it is time to move forward. After all, is USA known and praised by the world for protecting the religious freedom for everybody? While they should be vigilant to the political movement of Islam by some Muslims, they also should extend the full religious freedom to other Muslims who do not follow this movement. But it would be also wise to consider the emotional side of the victim’s families as well as the public.
 
If a community centre with Muslim prayer facilities qualifies as a mosque, and this ticks people off because it is two blocks away from Ground Zero, those people are really going to lose their pants when the Freedom Tower is built, complete with Muslim prayer facilities. According to some of these people's logic, that would make it the tallest mosque in New York, on Ground Zero itself.
 
Welcome to the forums brother.

By reading your post above, I feel that you have a lot to learn about Islam and Muslims. Now that Ramadan is over, the locked threads will be re-opened for posting and you go read through them and learn more about Islam.

Secondly, I believe that you have read all the posts on this thread. If you had, you'd understand that there is no "construction" of a "mosque" taking place near Ground Zero.

The building in question has always been there. They are turning it into a community centre which will include a mosque - or in other words - a prayer room.


Hi readers
The most symbolic monument of capitalism was the World Trade Centers in New York. There were indeed impressive buildings, because I visited there several years before they were destroyed by Islamic extremists.

I agree with you on both counts. The destroyers were not just extremists, they had a distorted view of what Islam is all about.

In a sense these buildings for the westerners are equivalent to the Great Mosque of Hajj for Muslims.

Wrong thing to say bro! You are going to get hacked for this. There is no comparison to the Holy Mosque in Makkah on this earth. It is the holiest of holy places. It is called "the house of Allah" in the Holy Qura'n. To compare it to any man made thing is an insult. And an even bigger one because WTC has nothing to do with religion. I don't think even the Vatican is a comparison due to what The Holy Mosque stands for and because unlike the Vatican is it for ALL Muslims regardless of whether they are Sunnis or Shias. The Vatican to the best of my knowledge is a Holy Place for Catholics only.


In a sense, the Obama administration demonstrated the words of Jesus to those who are involved in the political movement of Islam (conquering the world by Islam and Shariah)

They are not following true Shariah law. Nowhere in the Shariah does it say that Muslims should destroy non-Muslims and kill them all.


This is my personal advice to non-Muslims and particularly non-Muslim Americans. In fact many people have shown their objections and concerns to the construction of the mosque near the Ground Zero. They might have every reason for the opposition, but I believe it is time to move forward. After all, is USA known and praised by the world for protecting the religious freedom for everybody? While they should be vigilant to the political movement of Islam by some Muslims, they also should extend the full religious freedom to other Muslims who do not follow this movement. But it would be also wise to consider the emotional side of the victim’s families as well as the public.

That is the correct view. Sadly, people around the world and not only America are ready to believe anything that the media feeds them, which is why there is such an outcry over the planning of the Cordoba community centre. This is another reason why I believe that the plans should be abandoned.



By the way......... Islam is the only religion in which prayer is compulsory and the manner in which to pray has been described by the messenger himself. This is why we need mosques.
 
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sob7an Allah, are we playing along that Muslims were behind '911'? it is the most elaborate american hoax since the bay of pigs, I must applaud their success with it, but surely the truth will come out sooner or later and there will be hell to pay then as they have managed to wreak so much havoc on other nations in the process and breed the most hateful turds in history toward Muslims!
 
by M. Junaid Levesque-Alam

In their spirited assault on Islam, conservatives have seized upon one notion with particular delight: the Abrahamic faith embraced by a quarter of humanity is a "cult."

Tennessee Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey popularized the claim in July when a constituent asked about the "threat that’s invading our country from Muslims"; Ramsey wondered aloud whether Islam "is actually a religion or is it a nationality, way of life or cult" and later asserted that "far too much of Islam has come to resemble a violent political philosophy more than peace-loving religion." Soon after, some of Ramsey’s constituents set ablaze a planned mosque site near Nashville and fired shots when parishioners tried to inspect the damage.

Farther south, in Florida, Pastor Terry Jones proclaimed that Islam is not just a cult but a Satanic creation — hence his planned bonfire of Qur’ans. He is not alone among Floridians. Congressional candidate and retired Army officer Allen West announced earlier this year that Islam is "not a religion" but a "vicious enemy" intent on "infiltrating" America. Another candidate in the sunshine state, Ron McNeil, described Islam as a malicious plot to "destroy our way of life."

And in upstate New York this August, teenagers who viewed the local mosque as a "cult house" terrorized mosque-goers by blasting a shotgun and sideswiping a parishioner.

What accounts for this renewed alacrity in attacking Islam?

Muslim paratroopers did not suffuse the skies with crescent-shaped parachutes and descend on America. Nor did Muslim terrorists unfurl prayer rugs camouflaged as conifers and seize the highways. The bleating about the Muslim "cult" was provoked by nothing more than a proposed Muslim YMCA, one which is to be headed by a State Department-sponsored Sufi imam and located no closer to Ground Zero than sundry pubs, food stands, pornography stores, and strip clubs.

To repeat the facts, however, is to miss the point. The "Islam is a cult" mantra is not an epithet: it is the axiom of a belief system that outmatches any religion in America in influence and irrationality.

Within this belief system, facts cannot weaken the pull of the idea that "whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be confidently labeled ‘good’ or ‘bad,’" and reason cannot compete with the coveted "habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects."

This belief system is nationalism (distinct from patriotism), and the quoted descriptions are two symptoms of the disease as identified by George Orwell in his matchless 1945 essay on the subject.

The source of sustenance for our endless and boundless wars, American nationalism brooks neither logic nor nuance.

When Ramsey complained that Islam resembles "a violent political philosophy" while cheering invasions, occupations, and bombings that form the apex of violence, he showed more than a personal failing. For the nationalist, Orwell observed, "Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them."

Likewise, when Sherry McLain, a protester of the proposed Tennessee mosque, told Nashville public radio, "Something’s going on, and I don’t like it. We’re at war with these people," this reflected more than individual ignorance. It was an expression of adherence to a belief system — a cult, to borrow popular parlance — that demands ignorance as a condition of entry.

Anyone who doubts the cult-like qualities of American nationalism need only examine the signature slogan of the anti-Muslim movement. When Newt Gingrich averred that no "mosques" should be built near Ground Zero so long as there are no churches in Saudi Arabia and no non-Muslims in Mecca, his pout became the indignant refrain of many protesters.

Critics rightly countered that America should not devolve to Saudi levels of intolerance and that American Muslims should not be conflated with the tiny Wahhabi sect that rules over the Arabian Peninsula (with American support, no less).

But that is beside the point: why compare a site of 3,000 deaths to a place of religious significance at all? Mecca’s Kaaba is comparable to, say, the Temple Mount or the Chapel of the Ascension; these are places where religious leaders inspired their flocks and urged them to lead just and pious lives. Ground Zero, on the other hand, is a site of destruction surrounded by trinket-peddlers, food stalls, and cheap bars.

And yet the nationalist cult hankers to place a halo of sanctity around the site. The cultists do not complain about the seedy environs and they do not care about first-responders who forfeited their health to rescue the victims. But the idea of Ground Zero serves as a fountainhead — one which allows the nationalist faithful to soak in vengeful anger against Muslims and fulminate for more war — and is thus "sacred" to the war project.

Deep irrationality and false sanctity are not the only characteristics of a cult. Belief in the infallibility of specious leaders is also a marker. In the case of American nationalism, it is the most striking one.

In the hazy, distant past — that is to say, seven years ago — the high priests of the Iraq War promised that Iraqis would warmly embrace us. Neoconservative soothsayers prophesied that Iraq would be just the first of many Muslim countries to fall under America’s awesome sway.

The catastrophic result of the invasion was matched only by the willful ignorance of its proponents. None knew or cared to know about Arab or Muslim sentiment, the differences between Sunnis and Shiites, or the role of Israeli loyalists in pushing for war against one of Israel’s most hated enemies.

And now, as we receive official blessings to "turn the page" on the war, the leaders of the war cult are not humbled but brazen. They have not only escaped punishment but attained a platform to pine for a repeat performance.

Witness the spectacle of Bush loyalists begrudging Obama for not "crediting" Bush with the surge; the men demand gratitude for slowing the bleeding they themselves caused by carving wounds into Iraq’s flesh. Witness the gaggle of Israel-friendly figures peddling war against Iran; they are led by former Israeli soldier Jeffrey Goldberg, who once admonished "people with limited experience" for reaching the "naive conclusion that an invasion of Iraq will cause America to be loathed in the Middle East."

Such is the backdrop of the anti-Islam movement in America. Learning from past mistakes, filling gaps of ignorance, and engaging with Muslims might produce the dreaded result of peace, so disciples of the nationalist cult fan the flames of hatred at the altar of endless, winless war.

It is tempting to believe that this cult is limited to conservatives, but some liberals are also devotees. A writer at American Prospect recently inveighed against a new book that dared to compare American conservatives to Islamic extremists, intoning that there is no "excuse" for the "obscenity of comparing our political opponents to killers and terrorists." As Glenn Greenwald reminds us, the comparison "is true by definition": those who attacked Iraq are responsible for ruining and ending the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians. The nationalist, however, always places the nation "beyond good and evil" and "the smallest slur upon his own unit…fills him with uneasiness which he can relieve only by making some sharp retort," as Orwell observed.

It is also tempting to believe that our nationalism-gone-amok is a new phenomenon, but America’s militarist and messianic strains go back to its early days. As the scholar Eric Foner noted in his 2001 address to the American Historical Association, "The nation’s rapid territorial growth was widely viewed as evidence of the innate superiority of a mythical construct known as the ‘Anglo-Saxon race,’ whose special qualities made it uniquely suited to bring freedom and prosperity to the continent and the world."

There are, of course, other, more noble impulses evinced in American history: justice, prudence, and pragmatism. These are the attributes that must resurface if America is to wean itself from its violent political philosophy and become a peace-loving country.

http://original.antiwar.com/levesque-alam/2010/09/08/islam-and-americas-most-powerful-cult/
 
by M. Junaid Levesque-Alam

In their spirited assault on Islam, conservatives have seized upon one notion with particular delight: the Abrahamic faith embraced by a quarter of humanity is a "cult."

Tennessee Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey popularized the claim in July when a constituent asked about the "threat that’s invading our country from Muslims"; Ramsey wondered aloud whether Islam "is actually a religion or is it a nationality, way of life or cult" and later asserted that "far too much of Islam has come to resemble a violent political philosophy more than peace-loving religion." Soon after, some of Ramsey’s constituents set ablaze a planned mosque site near Nashville and fired shots when parishioners tried to inspect the damage.

Farther south, in Florida, Pastor Terry Jones proclaimed that Islam is not just a cult but a Satanic creation — hence his planned bonfire of Qur’ans. He is not alone among Floridians. Congressional candidate and retired Army officer Allen West announced earlier this year that Islam is "not a religion" but a "vicious enemy" intent on "infiltrating" America. Another candidate in the sunshine state, Ron McNeil, described Islam as a malicious plot to "destroy our way of life."

And in upstate New York this August, teenagers who viewed the local mosque as a "cult house" terrorized mosque-goers by blasting a shotgun and sideswiping a parishioner.

What accounts for this renewed alacrity in attacking Islam?

Muslim paratroopers did not suffuse the skies with crescent-shaped parachutes and descend on America. Nor did Muslim terrorists unfurl prayer rugs camouflaged as conifers and seize the highways. The bleating about the Muslim "cult" was provoked by nothing more than a proposed Muslim YMCA, one which is to be headed by a State Department-sponsored Sufi imam and located no closer to Ground Zero than sundry pubs, food stands, pornography stores, and strip clubs.

To repeat the facts, however, is to miss the point. The "Islam is a cult" mantra is not an epithet: it is the axiom of a belief system that outmatches any religion in America in influence and irrationality.

Within this belief system, facts cannot weaken the pull of the idea that "whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be confidently labeled ‘good’ or ‘bad,’" and reason cannot compete with the coveted "habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects."

This belief system is nationalism (distinct from patriotism), and the quoted descriptions are two symptoms of the disease as identified by George Orwell in his matchless 1945 essay on the subject.

The source of sustenance for our endless and boundless wars, American nationalism brooks neither logic nor nuance.

When Ramsey complained that Islam resembles "a violent political philosophy" while cheering invasions, occupations, and bombings that form the apex of violence, he showed more than a personal failing. For the nationalist, Orwell observed, "Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them."

Likewise, when Sherry McLain, a protester of the proposed Tennessee mosque, told Nashville public radio, "Something’s going on, and I don’t like it. We’re at war with these people," this reflected more than individual ignorance. It was an expression of adherence to a belief system — a cult, to borrow popular parlance — that demands ignorance as a condition of entry.

Anyone who doubts the cult-like qualities of American nationalism need only examine the signature slogan of the anti-Muslim movement. When Newt Gingrich averred that no "mosques" should be built near Ground Zero so long as there are no churches in Saudi Arabia and no non-Muslims in Mecca, his pout became the indignant refrain of many protesters.

Critics rightly countered that America should not devolve to Saudi levels of intolerance and that American Muslims should not be conflated with the tiny Wahhabi sect that rules over the Arabian Peninsula (with American support, no less).

But that is beside the point: why compare a site of 3,000 deaths to a place of religious significance at all? Mecca’s Kaaba is comparable to, say, the Temple Mount or the Chapel of the Ascension; these are places where religious leaders inspired their flocks and urged them to lead just and pious lives. Ground Zero, on the other hand, is a site of destruction surrounded by trinket-peddlers, food stalls, and cheap bars.

And yet the nationalist cult hankers to place a halo of sanctity around the site. The cultists do not complain about the seedy environs and they do not care about first-responders who forfeited their health to rescue the victims. But the idea of Ground Zero serves as a fountainhead — one which allows the nationalist faithful to soak in vengeful anger against Muslims and fulminate for more war — and is thus "sacred" to the war project.

Deep irrationality and false sanctity are not the only characteristics of a cult. Belief in the infallibility of specious leaders is also a marker. In the case of American nationalism, it is the most striking one.

In the hazy, distant past — that is to say, seven years ago — the high priests of the Iraq War promised that Iraqis would warmly embrace us. Neoconservative soothsayers prophesied that Iraq would be just the first of many Muslim countries to fall under America’s awesome sway.

The catastrophic result of the invasion was matched only by the willful ignorance of its proponents. None knew or cared to know about Arab or Muslim sentiment, the differences between Sunnis and Shiites, or the role of Israeli loyalists in pushing for war against one of Israel’s most hated enemies.

And now, as we receive official blessings to "turn the page" on the war, the leaders of the war cult are not humbled but brazen. They have not only escaped punishment but attained a platform to pine for a repeat performance.

Witness the spectacle of Bush loyalists begrudging Obama for not "crediting" Bush with the surge; the men demand gratitude for slowing the bleeding they themselves caused by carving wounds into Iraq’s flesh. Witness the gaggle of Israel-friendly figures peddling war against Iran; they are led by former Israeli soldier Jeffrey Goldberg, who once admonished "people with limited experience" for reaching the "naive conclusion that an invasion of Iraq will cause America to be loathed in the Middle East."

Such is the backdrop of the anti-Islam movement in America. Learning from past mistakes, filling gaps of ignorance, and engaging with Muslims might produce the dreaded result of peace, so disciples of the nationalist cult fan the flames of hatred at the altar of endless, winless war.

It is tempting to believe that this cult is limited to conservatives, but some liberals are also devotees. A writer at American Prospect recently inveighed against a new book that dared to compare American conservatives to Islamic extremists, intoning that there is no "excuse" for the "obscenity of comparing our political opponents to killers and terrorists." As Glenn Greenwald reminds us, the comparison "is true by definition": those who attacked Iraq are responsible for ruining and ending the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians. The nationalist, however, always places the nation "beyond good and evil" and "the smallest slur upon his own unit…fills him with uneasiness which he can relieve only by making some sharp retort," as Orwell observed.

It is also tempting to believe that our nationalism-gone-amok is a new phenomenon, but America’s militarist and messianic strains go back to its early days. As the scholar Eric Foner noted in his 2001 address to the American Historical Association, "The nation’s rapid territorial growth was widely viewed as evidence of the innate superiority of a mythical construct known as the ‘Anglo-Saxon race,’ whose special qualities made it uniquely suited to bring freedom and prosperity to the continent and the world."

There are, of course, other, more noble impulses evinced in American history: justice, prudence, and pragmatism. These are the attributes that must resurface if America is to wean itself from its violent political philosophy and become a peace-loving country.

http://original.antiwar.com/levesque-alam/2010/09/08/islam-and-americas-most-powerful-cult/
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1365703 said:
sob7an Allah, are we playing along that Muslims were behind '911'? it is the most elaborate american hoax since the bay of pigs, I must applaud their success with it, but surely the truth will come out sooner or later and there will be hell to pay then as they have managed to wreak so much havoc on other nations in the process and breed the most hateful turds in history toward Muslims!

tell me about it, it is sad when muslims get all excited and start pointing fingers to other muslims and blaming them for 9/11 crap. One should watch this documentary, its called "Secrets of CIA" it talks about secretive operations done by CIA since 1960s and how they blame the bombings and other attacks on rebels and other tribes. Also I heard some Cali masjids decided to cancel Eid celebrations if Eid was to fall on 9/11 just because they think its not appropriate.
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1360574 said:
It is amazing to me that they'd fire that alleged Dr. Laura, and Larry king is giving her lessons of why racial slurs are offensive, no where in his list of 'Jews, blacks, gays, Hispanics' did he make mention of Muslims and it is quite clear a joke/slur about any group will not be tolerated, but everything against Muslims is tolerated and encouraged ... I don't even watch the news anymore, although today I read another delightful piece on Al-Jazeera.. entitled Afghanistan the death of empires and reputations and sob7an Allah, for centuries no one could subjugate the afghans.. I am so very proud of them, may Allah swt make them triumphant forever against their enemies.. No one seems to aid any Muslims, especially not other Muslims, let's have a look at Pakistan and Palestine, were it a disaster to any western nation, the despots of the Arab world would be spending money on donations and aid.. but Muslim life comes so cheap these days..

S/he who has God in their heart has everything.. so let the rest keep their weaponry, soldiery and money, may it drag them straight to hell insha'Allah..

:w:

Assalamu-Alaikum!!

Things in Pakistan are messed up.Majority of the aid promised by many countries haven't been given to the Govt. yet,however the largest amount of money offered to us has been from Saudi Arabia though no one including them has even sent the half of the promised aid.People are dying becoz of shortage of medicines and they're the common antibiotics and paracetamols.They are suffering from water borne diseases as they have to depend over that stagnant flood water near their camps becoz of lack of clean drinking water.Horrible,horrible skin diseases and eye infections can be also seen.We see people in flood affected areas fighting over food,people who are left with absolutely nothing with even missing one or two of their family members awaiting our help.
 
[FONT=&quot]Hi readers

While praying sometime ago, the Holy Spirit in my heart urged me to help Pakistan people as our fellow human beings and I did it out of joy and thanks for the grace of God I have received. I wish this small donation ($xxx) would be at least some help to those who have lost loved ones and homes. [/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]Hi readers

While praying sometime ago, the Holy Spirit in my heart urged me to help Pakistan people as our fellow human beings and I did it out of joy and thanks for the grace of God I have received. I wish this small donation ($xxx) would be at least some help to those who have lost loved ones and homes.

إِنْ تُبْدُوا الصَّدَقَاتِ فَنِعِمَّا هِيَ ۖ وَإِنْ تُخْفُوهَا وَتُؤْتُوهَا الْفُقَرَاءَ فَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَكُمْ ۚ وَيُكَفِّرُ عَنْكُمْ مِنْ سَيِّئَاتِكُمْ ۗ وَاللَّهُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرٌ {271}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 2:271] If ye publish your almsgiving, it is well, but if ye hide it and give it to the poor, it will be better for you, and will atone for some of your ill-deeds. Allah is Informed of what ye do.
[/SIZE]
[/FONT]
 
tell me about it, it is sad when muslims get all excited and start pointing fingers to other muslims and blaming them for 9/11 crap. One should watch this documentary, its called "Secrets of CIA" it talks about secretive operations done by CIA since 1960s and how they blame the bombings and other attacks on rebels and other tribes.


This is a sad old saw. Al-Qeda has never denied their involvement with the 9/11 attacks. And Bin Laden, himself, has gone so far as to actually brag about it.

Now, in my opinion those people don't represent Islam. So, one could repudiate these terrorists who claim to act in the name of Allah as not being true followers of Islam; that would be a reason for saying that Muslims didn't participate in the 9/11 bombings. Your suggestings are, however, ridiculous.
 
is it more ridiculous than this?

472_saeed_alghamdi_passport2050081722-13059.jpg


you really are a hoot, like your govt.!

all the best
 
You want to know what really makes me angry? There is a bloody strip club even closer to the WTC site. DO YOU SEE THE HYPOCRISY OF THESE PEOPLE? A STRIP CLUB IS A-OKAY BUT NOT A RELIGIOUS CENTER? God have mercy...there's absolutely no hope for humanity.
 

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