Kemal Ataturk

theres no point on dwelling on the past, what hes done, he will be accountable for, what we do, we will be accountable for. if we let turkey stay like it is, then hes won, but if we change it to an islamic state islam has won.
 
There's no such thing as a 'practical muslim', you are either practicing Islam, or not. Where have these terms come from? Moderate, practical, fundamentalist, and radacalist? Surely they were created by the kuffar. Hmmm, let's not fall in to kafir terminology for Muslims.
:w::rose::peace:
 
as salaamu alaikum
i am a turk. yes maybe u r right but you shouldn't say these to someone that is not alive. it is such a backbitting. Only Allah knows the judgement abt him. you say he is not a muslim how can u say like that, u opened his hearth and looked. yes someone can be a sinner. also who can say he/she dont have any sins. then how i can believe that u r real muslims...
he was a good commander. by the Grace of Allah and with the imaans of Turkish soldiers turkish army won wars. and now there is Turkey... shukurAllah
 
Sis aysenil, do you truly love and respect this man? How can this be when he was clearly a munafiq at best. He worked to build an un-islamic state, therefore making him an enemy of Islam. What do ou think?
:w::rose::peace:
 
aysenil said:
as salaamu alaikum
i am a turk. yes maybe u r right but you shouldn't say these to someone that is not alive. it is such a backbitting. Only Allah knows the judgement abt him. you say he is not a muslim how can u say like that, u opened his hearth and looked. yes someone can be a sinner. also who can say he/she dont have any sins. then how i can believe that u r real muslims...
he was a good commander. by the Grace of Allah and with the imaans of Turkish soldiers turkish army won wars. and now there is Turkey... shukurAllah
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He did turkey more bad than good. You shouldnt even be defending him. And no, when talking bad about a person whose faults should be known so that other people wont misunderstand about him, that is not backbiting. Kemal was not a muslim even though he claimed he was. First of all he saw that the way of the kuffar is better than Allah's word. ANd that alone is kufr.
 
Dear friends;

Salaamun Aleykum to you all

As a Turk, I would also like to express my opinion on Mustafa Kemal Ataturk and Turkey
.
First of all, who was Mustafa Kemal? Was he an atheist? Perhaps he was, we cannot know. It is not my concern. Every single man is responsible for his own beliefs. One of our friends here says he was a Jew. What a pity! My friend, you can never fight an idea by insulting or telling lies. If you have arguments, then use them. If not, think twice before talking. Your comment only degenerates your credibility.

Therefore, we do not have the right to talk about what Allah will decide. We should comment on him regarding his policies, not anything else.

So what did he do?

It is true that he encouraged Turkish men to wear European attire, discouraged the hijab for women. He was strongly against ruling the country by Shari'ah, he practiced laicism, abolished polygamy, granted women suffrage, oppressed the opposition by force. He also abandoned Arabic alphabet and ordered latin alphabet to be used.

I agree, part of them may not seem true now. It takes very long to analyze those. Even now, some corrupt bureaucrats, politicians and generals in Turkey still want to keep their power by using (and also degenerating) his ideas as a shield for their immoralities after 70 years from his death. But they are also against democracy, freedom and union with Europe, which contradicts Mustafa Kemal’s basic principles. Citizens of our country still suffers from them, which they call themselves so-called “kemalists”.

But please try to act in an objective manner. Who was the leader of the country that won the independence war against European imperialists, crusaders? Who devoted all his lifetime to help Turkish Republic be a developed state? Did not he try completely to transform a nation so that Turkish Republic could be a strong state in this world? And even today, is there any Muslim country which is both economically and intellectually stronger than the Republic of Turkey? Whose prospects look brighter? The Arabic world in chains of US and imperialists who cannot use their own resources that are running out day by day, getting exploited by their own rulers and dictators, or the Republic of Turkey with its democracy and economy in which citizens even look for further rights and a more dynamic economy?

I want to ask my sisters and brothers in this forum, wherever you live: Would you want to be living in a state where women are forbidden to vote, their role in social life is secondary, with limited social activities and no freedom of thought?(which are absolutely against Islam).

In no way, i am not going to claim that all practises in Turkey are correct. Forcing women or young girls attending universities and public places without hijab is nothing but violating basic human rights. Oppression on religious thoughts and the conservative government can never be accepted at all. But these are the problems that can be overcome by improving democracy. And I believe the new Turkish AKP government has achieved significant results and there will be more.

My dear brothers and sisters. We can never be as strong as Europeans, Jews or Americans unless we criticise ourselves and work as hard and as passionate as they do. Do not you grieve to see Muslim children getting killed everyday in Iraq, Palestine? I do. If we, Muslims, were both economically, politically strong and free, would we be facing such a tragedy? Is that the position what Allah wants his beloved believers to be? When will we be facing the harsh reality of our faults which led us to this disastrous status in the world?

And don’t you think some of us are very cruel in criticising Turkey?
Don’t we have something to learn from it?
 
Bittersteel said:
Ottomans weren't really Islamic.They had all those harems.
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after ataturk which calls himself kamal which means god in some language timur is the second worst turk in history. And ottomans called himself we are the state our prophet muhammed established. And schoolars have said osmanische reich is the second best state.

And harem is not aganist islam. Any rich man could have a harem. Can you please explain to me have is this aganist islam ?

They are slave girls. Reads fetva's from 4 imam. I already explained why slavery is required in the times of war. here https://www.islamicboard.com/general/134316626-secularism-shirk-explain-please-2.html#post2942870

If you have any questions about ottoman empire tell me. But ottoman empire after imam ali's time second best time for the islam. What ottoman empire did war only for islam. And our prophet already said [FONT=&quot]"Verily you shall conquer Constantinople. What a wonderful leader will her[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]leader be, and what a wonderful army will that army be!" and Armies and leaders of ottoman empire already reached compliment of our prophet s.a.v


[/FONT]
 
I'm not surprised to see so many anti Ataturk comments on here but one must fully study the history of the times in which he became a prominent leader.

Could the Ottoman empire have been defeated and the British and French gain the ultimate upper hand over the muslims, leading to the complete eradication of the final Khilafat without the treachery and rebellion of the Arab tribes across the middle east? The same arab tribes which now rule those parts of the world, backed by British and French money, military equipment and man power. If the arab treachery had not occurred, the sociopolitical climate would never have been created, in the area known as modern day Turkey where people would have felt hatred towards Arabs, Brits and the French.

In such a climate, a leader like Ataturk flourished, defeated the foreign occupiers of Turkey and brought his country into a new dawn. Can you blame the Turks for supporting such a leader? I can't. Can you blame him for his anti-Arab sentiment which sadly at times became anti-Islamic law too?

At the same time, Ataturk was not the secularist he is made out to be. His own faith wore the headscarf. He funded education and health care and the restoration of many Turkish towns and cities.

He was a hero for a certain demographic for a certain reason. He was not a saint but he was not a devil either.
 
This thread is over 10 years old. Could you start new thread about Ottomans if it´s needed, not continue some ancient thread?
 
Born_Believer said:
I'm not surprised to see so many anti Ataturk comments on here but one must fully study the history of the times in which he became a prominent leader.

Could the Ottoman empire have been defeated and the British and French gain the ultimate upper hand over the muslims, leading to the complete eradication of the final Khilafat without the treachery and rebellion of the Arab tribes across the middle east? The same arab tribes which now rule those parts of the world, backed by British and French money, military equipment and man power. If the arab treachery had not occurred, the sociopolitical climate would never have been created, in the area known as modern day Turkey where people would have felt hatred towards Arabs, Brits and the French.

In such a climate, a leader like Ataturk flourished, defeated the foreign occupiers of Turkey and brought his country into a new dawn. Can you blame the Turks for supporting such a leader? I can't. Can you blame him for his anti-Arab sentiment which sadly at times became anti-Islamic law too?

At the same time, Ataturk was not the secularist he is made out to be. His own faith wore the headscarf. He funded education and health care and the restoration of many Turkish towns and cities.

He was a hero for a certain demographic for a certain reason. He was not a saint but he was not a devil either.
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Ataturk worked for the Ottoman state and was commissioned by the Sultan. He 'dismissed' the Ottoman state while he was sent to Anatolia with the order of the Sultan. There are texts of his early speeches and even some videos. He was advocating Islam and Khilafah. Even at the opening of the first turkish parliament (TBMM) in Ankara. So he intentionally deceived the people, and after gaining power he removed Islam from being the state religion. Secularism was introduced in 1937. And 1924 the Khilafah was abolished and new reforms introduced. Everyone who contradicted these were jailed/executed. Scholars had warned the Sultan that he shouldn't trust Ataturk, because he was charged of possesing illegal magazines and being member to illegal movements earlier, but the Sultan ignored these. It's said that he later cried while in exile in France when talking about these memories. Some scholars/respected people were againat the Sultan because enemy propaganda and rise of anti-state, 'nationalist' enemy movements. All these lead to..
 
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But yet the Sultan himself apparently sent him to Anatolia to lead the resistance
 
anatolian said:
But yet the Sultan himself apparently sent him to Anatolia to lead the resistance
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he was deceived as were the people of turkey. Ask any sunni scholar and they'll tell you kemal was a kuffar who destroyed the khalifah and Islam in turkey. He was the Abdullah ibn Saba of the turks.
 
aaj said:
he was deceived as were the people of turkey. Ask any sunni scholar and they'll tell you kemal was a kuffar who destroyed the khalifah and Islam in turkey. He was the Abdullah ibn Saba of the turks.
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Atatürk might be a kafir I really dont know. He did many things contradicting Islam. But since he was known a Muslim and never denied to be, we can only assume based on his actions. But even if he was say an atheist, he was the best man for Turkish people of his time. Sultan, Khalifa and al those scholars betrayed this nation by promoting the foreign occupation. Only this man had enough courage to start a resistance. Otherwise we were going to be a colony like yours. It is true he decieved people by saying he would revise Khilafah. He didnt do it but he revised a nation. If there was no Atatürk I dont know what would all those European powers do in Turkey. Maybe we would be all christians today. Can you disprove, no. Atleast he let people live Islam.

And no the Sultan was not decieved. He definately knew only Atatürk could win such a war..
 
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I am thinking that when people start to claim that some politician is or was kafir, kind of claim is always a political opinion too. It´s obivious that they also disagree his political opinions and decisions. Kind of claim is then subjective, not objective.

We should know did he in his heart believed to the one God or not and judge him by this only, not because we disagree his political acts.
 
ataturk is the dajjal we need to establish khalif and wait at least 1000 years then demolish it to do something worse than ataturk did. Writings of him shows that he was an atheist. He killed hundreds of thousands of people. He demoslished Sharia. Democracy is not something aganist islam as long as there is sharia. But he demolished sharia. He forced people to wear what infidels wear. People looked like infidels. And he was not a good soldier too. He betrayed in palestine. People did what he ordered because Padişah gave him an order which gives him power of Khalif. Noone done what he done to islam. He was so afraid that muslims gonna revolt he could not even sleep because of fear of coup. He changed the alphabet and tried to change language. He changed what people wear. He established a national ideology. Ottomans calls his soldiers little Muhammeds. And this army thanks to ataturk became the defender of the infidel ideologies. British people gave him greatest honor medal. He betrayed ottoman empire. He betrayed Khalif. He betrayed muslims. He betrayed islam. Because of the national ideology taught in the schools people love him. There can be only 3 -reasons why people love him.

1 People can love him because they might be thinking that he saved our country. People who loves his country may love him. But actually he was a bad soldier. Learning about war in palestine is enough. And people who loves his country is the people who loves islam. One other reason for this is the national ideology. In schools people learn to praise him.

2 People who wants to be like infidels. These people doesn't want sharia. They wanna be like infidels. Because of this they love him.

3 People who are stupid.
 
You are doing the same thing. You are mixing the facts with fables. I really cannot waste my time by selecting the misinformation from facts in your above post. I assume you are Turkish. Just have honor. You cant talk about Muslimhood without honor. A turk who dishonor Mustafa Kemal is honorless
 

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