Kemal Ataturk

[Yahya.]

Atataturk was a disbeliever. Undoubtedly. You can read his own personal letters and speeches. I didn't see any scholar or historian contradicting this. It's really obvious.

https://youtu.be/lZ-KajhkqMU

Original speech in the Turkish parliament. He says "we don't take our inspirations from books, thought to be sent from the heaven, or the unkonwn (ghayb)". Hope this is enough to 'convince' you. And this not a subjective opinion, rather a fact.

 

[Yahya.]

Atatürk might be a kafir I really dont know. He did many things contradicting Islam. But since he was known a Muslim and never denied to be, we can only assume based on his actions. But even if he was say an atheist, he was the best man for Turkish people of his time. Sultan, Khalifa and al those scholars betrayed this nation by promoting the foreign occupation. Only this man had enough courage to start a resistance. Otherwise we were going to be a colony like yours. It is true he decieved people by saying he would revise Khilafah. He didnt do it but he revised a nation. If there was no Atatürk I dont know what would all those European powers do in Turkey. Maybe we would be all christians today. Can you disprove, no. Atleast he let people live Islam.

And no the Sultan was not decieved. He definately knew only Atatürk could win such a war..

Brother, the Turkish population fought the war, not Ataturk. My grand-grandfathers died fighting the British and Greek. Some people intentionally exaggerate his role. For example there is this photo where he is lying on snow. A Turkish historian -Mustafa Armağan- recently revealed a new photo of him entering a car, i.e. they staged this photo for propaganda, to gain respect and more followers.

 

[sister herb]

And Allah only knows what he had in his heart at the moment he died. That counts. What if he said shahadah just before the last breath? Why we should argue here about the thing we can´t never be sure 100% but instead risk our own destiny while blaming someone was kafir and then he may not.

If you disagree his political opinions and acts, that´s ok. But then focus to them only. Otherwise this looks like beating a dead horse.

 

[Akeyi]

And Allah only knows what he had in his heart at the moment he died. That counts. What if he said shahadah just before the last breath? Why we should argue here about the thing we can´t never be sure 100% but instead risk our own destiny while blaming someone was kafir and then he may not.

If you disagree his political opinions and acts, that´s ok. But then focus to them only. Otherwise this looks like beating a dead horse.

HIS ACTIONS WERE INFIDEL HE PLAYED WITH MILLIONS OF MILLIONS OF FAITH.
LOOK WHAT OTTOMAN PEOPLE USED TO WEAR

I AM A FAT PERSON BUT I CAN GET LOST IN THIS CLOTHINGGG

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=155709-1483209617.jpg

LOOK WHAT ATATURK FORCE THEM TO WEAR

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A_fedora_hat,_made_by_Borsalino.jpg

A MAN WHO CANT READ CAN SAY THOSE WHO WEAR IT ARE THE INFIDELS: BECAUSE IT IS HAT OF INFIDEL

AND HE KILLED PEOPLE WHO DONT WEAR IT . SO HE MARKED PEOPLE WHO WEAR INFIDEL HAT. THERE WAS A HADITH ABOUT LIKE THIS

 

[anatolian]

If Atatürk did not start the war your names would be Yorgo not Yahya and some of you would not know who were your grand fathers ..Inshallah this is enough to understand his importance

 

[sister herb]

Brother Akeyi, I am talking about being carefull who we call unbeliever (in general levels) and you talk about hats. Hate him and hate his politics as much you ever want but try to remember as being carefull about things what only Allah can knows for sure. Unfortunately it seems to be quite common habit; when people dislike someone and specially if he is politician, they start to make kind of claims. Is it even important or has it became one way to blacken someone's reputation?

And take CAPS LOCK away, it is not needed here.

 

[Akeyi]

Brother Akeyi, I am talking about being carefull who we call unbeliever (in general levels) and you talk about hats. Hate him and hate his politics as much you ever want but try to remember as being carefull about things what only Allah can knows for sure. Unfortunately it seems to be quite common habit; when people dislike someone and specially if he is politician, they start to make kind of claims. Is it even important or has it became one way to blacken someone's reputation?

And take CAPS LOCK away, it is not needed here.

HATS ARE THE SYMBOL WHY CANT YOU UNDERSTAND A MAN WHO CANT READ CAN LOOK AT YOUR FACE AND SAY IF YOU ARE MUSLIM OR NOT BUT IT IS NOT WRITTEN THERE


Anas b. Malik reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Dajjal is blind of one eye and there is written between his eyes the word" Kafir". He then spelled the word as k. f. r., which every Muslim would be able to read. ( Book 041, Number 7009 Sahih Muslim)

 

[Akeyi]

if atatürk did not start the war your names would be yorgo not yahya and some of you would not know who were your grand fathers ..inshallah this is enough to understand his importance

in.
In papers it is written that ataturk is half god in his identity it is written kamal which means god or something someone prays

ataturk is not a good soldier muslim people saved this land then ataturk killed those people wwhen they reject to leave islam . End of story

 

[Born_Believer]

Ataturk worked for the Ottoman state and was commissioned by the Sultan. He 'dismissed' the Ottoman state while he was sent to Anatolia with the order of the Sultan. There are texts of his early speeches and even some videos. He was advocating Islam and Khilafah. Even at the opening of the first turkish parliament (TBMM) in Ankara. So he intentionally deceived the people, and after gaining power he removed Islam from being the state religion. Secularism was introduced in 1937. And 1924 the Khilafah was abolished and new reforms introduced. Everyone who contradicted these were jailed/executed. Scholars had warned the Sultan that he shouldn't trust Ataturk, because he was charged of possesing illegal magazines and being member to illegal movements earlier, but the Sultan ignored these. It's said that he later cried while in exile in France when talking about these memories. Some scholars/respected people were againat the Sultan because enemy propaganda and rise of anti-state, 'nationalist' enemy movements. All these lead to..

By 1920, at the opening of the first Turkish parliament, the Ottoman Empire was already long dead.

Also, none of what you say relates to what I posted, which is that if the arab revolt had not occurred and thousands of tribe members across the Arabian peninsula had not sided with the British and the French, it is highly unlikely that the situation would have arisen where Kamal could have gained power or the British and the French would have captured the last remaining Muslim empire.

Go back and read what I said. I'm not here claiming Kamal was religious or completely secular. That's an entirely different discussion and one I do not care for because the reality of the situation is that, much like in Spain and India and elsewhere, if Muslim had not stabbed Muslim in the back, then we would not be talking about the end of Muslim rule in various parts of the world and the rise of non-Muslim powers.

 

[anatolian]

in.
In papers it is written that ataturk is half god in his identity it is written kamal which means god or something someone prays

ataturk is not a good soldier muslim people saved this land then ataturk killed those people wwhen they reject to leave islam . End of story

Your brain death has already occured. You dont know what you are talking about but repeat only a hate propaganda. Use your own intelligence to see what Mustafa Kemal did for Turkish people if you care to be Turkish anymore. Disloyalty is not something encouraged in Islam

 

[Akeyi]

How can be loyal to both infidels and islam ?

Ataturk already considered dajjal by some of the muslim comunities

he demoslished sharia he force wear women infidel clothes he wanted girls to wear what animals wear
i am loyal to osmanische reich and ataturk was a traitor to his sultan

 

[Akeyi]

Wow my friends i cant write in caps and i am posting this message to learn if i can

 

[cooterhein]

How can be loyal to both infidels and islam ?

That could potentially happen by means of a shared national identity. That's especially likely in a peaceful secular society that's free of supremacist tendencies.

 

[sister herb]

As I see what was the influence of this person to the Turkey: His goal was to connect Turkey to the European environment and guarantee to it the economical welfare and political stability in the future. He was not entirely successful. His roots were somewhere else than the Europeans, and that is why his way to rule was more oriental. But he made the first move and without him Turkey would to be very different country than it is now. Would it be better or worse without him is the question what belongs to the Turkish people themselves, not to outsiders like me.

 

[Yahya.]

If Atatürk did not start the war your names would be Yorgo not Yahya and some of you would not know who were your grand fathers ..Inshallah this is enough to understand his importance

That's only a speculation. If Allah wants something to happen it does, people can't change the outcome Allah already set. Muslims fought and expelled the invaders, not Ataturk. Did you hear about Sütçü İmam, Hasan Tahsin Bey and his likes? The courage and faith of the Turkish population had the greater role. Ataturk lead the defense, but still he was a traitor and deceiver for his reforms. His government also gave Moosul to the British without any force. I can't understan how you can defend such a man, who executed thousands of Muslims. And even claiming that our whole religion and culture, up to our names would be assimilated is really foolish. Such a thing happened no where. You see, Levant, North Africa and Maghrib were under British/France Mandate for years, Algeria for centuries. Are they now called Yorgo? Subhanallah. You are just repeating Turkish secularists' propaganda slogans.

It's really sad that we are discussing such a topic today, whereas there is no doubt, that someone who abolishes Allah's laws is a disbeliever. He doesn't deny to be a disbeliever. He believes in nature, in Turkish nationalism. Just look up his biographies.

[MENTION=9623]sister herb[/MENTION] We rule upon what's apparent. He says he is no Muslim, how can we still insist and say 'maybe he accepted Islam before he died' sister? Then I'd say maybe Winston Churchill also accepted Islam later. Do you consent.

 

[Akeyi]

whole UNION OF EUROPE ESTABLISHED JUST TO BEAT OTTOMAN EMPIRE NOW TURKEY WANTED TO ENTER EU MUSLIMS IS THE REASON WHY THERE IS EU.

TURKEY INSALLAH WILL BE STATE OUR PROPHET ESTABLISHED.

ATATURK DID NOT STARTED THE WAR YAHYA IS RIGHT AND PADISAH ALREADY TRUSTED ATATURK GAVE HIM FULL POWER SENT HIM GAVE HIM MONEY BUT ATATURK WAS DISLOYAL ALSO HE IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY PALESTINE IS UNDER OCCUPY.

HERB TO HERB

TURKEI DOESNT BELONG TO TURKS IT IS ONLY TEMPORARY

LET ME TELL YOU A REAL STORY

A MODERN WOMEN WHO LOOKS LIKE WESTERN PEOPLE IN TURKEY WAS IN STREET THEN HE SAW A MAN WHO DRESSED LIKE A MUSLIM

THIS WOMAN TOLD THAT MAN THAT

IF ATATURK WOULD SEE YOU WHAT HE WOULD DO TO YOU ?!!!!!

THEN

{BUT OF COURSE THIS HAPPENS IN THE CAPITAL OF OTTOMAN EMPIRE BUT IN THE TIMES OF TURKEY REPUBLIC SO

THIS MAN SAID TO WOMAN

ATATURK IS JUST A RENTRER HOUSE OWNER IS

محمد ثانى‎

SO

TURKS ARE THE RENTRER

HOUSE OWNER ARE OTTOMANS

TURKS AND MUSLIMS ARE MINORITY IN OTTOMAN EMPIRE BUT UNDER RULE OF MUSLIMS

BECAUSE THERE SHOULD BE ONLY ONE MUSLIM STATE TO BE POOWERFUL

 

[anatolian]

That's only a speculation. If Allah wants something to happen it does, people can't change the outcome Allah already set. Muslims fought and expelled the invaders, not Ataturk. Did you hear about Sütçü İmam, Hasan Tahsin Bey and his likes? The courage and faith of the Turkish population had the greater role. Ataturk lead the defense, but still he was a traitor and deceiver for his reforms. His government also gave Moosul to the British without any force. I can't understan how you can defend such a man, who executed thousands of Muslims. And even claiming that our whole religion and culture, up to our names would be assimilated is really foolish. Such a thing happened no where. You see, Levant, North Africa and Maghrib were under British/France Mandate for years, Algeria for centuries. Are they now called Yorgo? Subhanallah. You are just repeating Turkish secularists' propaganda slogans.

So what is your stance? Even if we were invaded we would not be colonized? This is the exact foolishness. There are english names within egyptians and french names in algerians. Also the position of Turkey is different. Anatolia was the region where Christianity was born. They always want to re-cristianize this region. Also there is an anti-Turk sentiment in Europeans coming from history. They would not let us stay Muslim and have Turkish idendity. You must have some intelligence to see this. And how can you say Ataturk did not fight? Ofcourse he was not a private shoting the enemy. He was the chief commander and a military master mind. Even Lloyd George said that The centuries rarely produce a genius. Look at this bad luck of ours, that great genius of our era was granted to the Turkish nation. Even the enemy admired his skills but you people want to discredit his importance in the War of Independance. You must have some honor to acknowledge it. Alas..It is true he did not rule fully democratic and persocuted some people after the war. He had no right to abolish sharia and expell the khalifa. But still what he did for this nation is enough for me to respect him..I know Sütçü İmam quite well but you also must know Sultan Khalifa and your respectworthy scholars were watching the events when the greek soldiers raping our women...

 

[Akeyi]

OF COURSE MY FRIEND PLEASE DONT BE ANGRY TO ANATOLIAN HE IS TELLING US WHAT HE LEARNED FROM SCHOOLS BECAUSE THERE WAS NATIONAL IDEOLOGY FORCED IN OUR SCHOOLS I WILL EXPLAIN EVERY THING HE SAID PLEAZE WAIT FOR MEE

So what is your stance? Even if we were invaded we would not be colonized? This is the exact foolishness. There are english names within egyptians and french names in algerians. Also the position of Turkey is different. Anatolia was the region where Christianity was born. They always want to re-cristianize this region. Also there is an anti-Turk sentiment in Europeans coming from history. They would not let us stay Muslim and have Turkish idendity. You must have some intelligence to see this. And how can you say Ataturk did not fight? Ofcourse he was not a private shoting the enemy. He was the chief commander and a military master mind. Even Lloyd George said that The centuries rarely produce a genius. Look at this bad luck of ours, that great genius of our era was granted to the Turkish nation. Even the enemy admired his skills but you people want to discredit his importance in the War of Independance. You must have some honor to acknowledge it. Alas..It is true he did not rule fully democratic and persocuted some people after the war. He had no right to abolish sharia and expell the khalifa. But still what he did for this nation is enough for me to respect him..I know Sütçü İmam quite well but you also must know Sultan Khalifa and your respectworthy scholars were watching the events when the greek soldiers raping our women...

NOW

I WILL MAKE A GREAT SERVICE AND WILL EXPLAIN EVERY SENTENCE OF ANATOLIAN

So what is your stance?

A MAN WHO KNOWS WHAT ATATURK DONE CAN NOT LOVE HIM IF HE IS A MUSLIM. A MUSLIM CAN LOVE HIM BUT IT WOULD BE WRONG. BECAUSE WE SAY A MUSLIM CANT SIN. BECAUSE IT IS WRONG. BUT WE HAVE ABILITY TO SIN. ATATURK DONE WHAT KUFR COULD not DONE SINCE OTTOMAN EMPIRE.
GREATEST ENEMY IN THE WALLS: IF WE THINK SOMEONE IS NON MUSLIM WE HAVE GUARD AGANIST HIM BUT IF WE THINK HE IS MUSLIM WE EMBRACE HIM HE CAN BACK STAB

Even if we were invaded we would not be colonized?

An ENEMY COULD NOT DO WHAT ATATURK DONE. ATATURK USED TRADITION OF JIHAD OF OTTOMAN EMPIRE TO FORCE PEOPLE TO BE WESTERN

This is the exact foolishness.

There are english names within egyptians and french names in algerians.

OTTOMAN EMPIRE WAS EMPIRE OF MUSLIMS. EVEN THOUGH MUSLIMS WERE MINORITY IT WAS MUSLIMS'S EMPIRE. OTTOMAN EMPIRE DID NOT HAVE COLONIES. AND OTTOMAN EMPIRE SAVED THE PLACES HE HOLD FROM INFIDEL COLONIZATION

Also the position of Turkey is different. Anatolia was the region where Christianity was born.

THANKS TO ATATURK IT BECAME REGION WHERE INFIDELS SAYS "TAMED MUSLIMS" THANKS TO ATATURK HE DISGRACED THIS LAND. WE MADE THIS LAND HOLY LAND. WE TAKED IT FROM CHRISTIANS.

WE MADE CONSTANTINOPLE ISTANBUL

ISTANBUL MEANS ISLAM BOL IT MEANS FULL OF ISLAM

ATATURK DISGRACED THIS LAND

They always want to re-cristianize this region.

THEY COULD NOT DONE WORSE THAN WHAT ATATURK DID SO THEY GAVE ATATURK GREATEST HONOR BADGE OF HISTORY OF BRITISH EMPIRE

Also there is an anti-Turk sentiment in Europeans coming from history.

IT IS NOT ANTI TURK IT IS ANTI MUSLIM

TURKS WERE THE SWORD OF ISLAM

Turk has to be a muslim to be a TURK. IT IS A MOTTO OF VERY FAMOUS WRITER. NFK

ALL kufr is one nation

They would not let us stay Muslim and have Turkish idendity

Too many great historicians has explained that they could not done what ataturk done. For example

IT IS AUF TÜRKİSSCH SORRY FOR THAT

You must have some intelligence to see this.

AND VICE VERSA

YOU NEED SOME FAITH TO UNDERSTAND

And how can you say Ataturk did not fight? Ofcourse he was not a private shoting the enemy. He was the chief commander and a military master mind

His sultan ordered him multiple times he didn't go. While fighting with greek he waited for greek to occupy so he would be great commander. In ww1 he betrayed palestine. Ottoman empire didn't even have money to give to soldier wage he wanted wages for the time didn't come he wanted too many things too many money. Sultan gave him gold and gave him full power bbut he betrayed islam muslims sultan ottoman empire.

Even Lloyd George said that The centuries rarely produce a genius. Look at this bad luck of ours, that great genius of our era was granted to the Turkish nation. Even the enemy admired his skills but you people want to discredit his importance in the War of Independance.

OF COURSE THEY ADMIRE HIM WHO COULD DONE SUCH A HARM TO ISLAM IN HISTORY OF HISTORY.
WAR OF INDEPENCE WAR TO CLEAR THAT LAND FROM INFIDELS. THEN ATATURK BEGAN TO PUT THEIR IDEAS BY FORCE.

You must have some honor to acknowledge it. Alas..It is true he did not rule fully democratic and persocuted some people after the war.

HE IS GREATEST DICTATOR OF ALL TIMES.

WE HATTEN SEHR SCHÖNE ALPHABET HE DEMOLISHED IT CUTTED OUR LINES FROM ISLAM QURAN AND ARABS:

He had no right to abolish sharia and expell the khalifa.

I WILL SAY YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THIS SENTENCE MY FRIEND THANKS BUT OTHERS LIKE I EXPLAINED

But still what he did for this nation is enough for me to respect him..I know Sütçü İmam quite well but you also must know Sultan Khalifa and your respectworthy scholars were watching the events when the greek soldiers raping our women..

In ottoman empire greatest punishments are those who make zina with muslim women. It is called GANCA

BUT WHAT DID ATATURK DONE HE WAITED FOR INFIDELS TO REACH ANATOLIA TO BE GREAT HERO

 

[Yahya.]

[MENTION=16149]anatolian[/MENTION] I don't deny his mitary role. I'm just saying that deceiving the people, abolishing the Khilafah, eliminating political opponents (Muslims, especially scholars) and thus being a traitor erases all kind of respect for him in my heart.

Allah describes the believers as:
اشداء علي الكفار رحماء بينهم
Forceful against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves

How can we have love, disguised in respect, for someone who fought Allah and his religion? Would you also have respect for Hitler if you were German? Because he solved the problem of unemployment and poverrty, he freed Germany from the restrictions of the Treaty of Versailles, he 'liberated' German territory. He 'just' killed 6 million jews. That's his only 'little' mistake. Same with Ataturk, he 'just' executed thousands of scholars and additional Muslims who opposed his reforms. Why don't we have respect for both?

You know what the difference between these two cases are? Hitler loosed the battle, winners write the history. So everyone blamed him, now he became a measure for cruelty. But Ataturk on the other side won, and he -together with his party- developed the new curriculum in schools, and wrote the modern history of Turkey, fitting his visions. Executing those scholars and prohibiting Arabic was neccessary to improve as a society. That's it. Generations will pass, nobody will question this. Anyone who does can prepare his place in jail.

 

[Akeyi]

@anatolian I don't deny his mitary role. I'm just saying that deceiving the people, abolishing the Khilafah, eliminating political opponents (Muslims, especially scholars) and thus being a traitor erases all kind of respect for him in my heart.

Allah describes the believers as:
اشداء علي الكفار رحماء بينهم
Forceful against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves

How can we have love, disguised in respect, for someone who fought Allah and his religion? Would you also have respect for Hitler if you were German? Because he solved the problem of unemployment and poverrty, he freed Germany from the restrictions of the Treaty of Versailles, he 'liberated' German territory. He 'just' killed 6 million jews. That's his only 'little' mistake. Same with Ataturk, he 'just' executed thousands of scholars and additional Muslims who opposed his reforms. Why don't we have respect for both?

You know what the difference between these two cases are? Hitler loosed the battle, winners write the history. So everyone blamed him, now he became a measure for cruelty. But Ataturk on the other side won, and he -together with his party- developed the new curriculum in schools, and wrote the modern history of Turkey, fitting his visions. Executing those scholars and prohibiting Arabic was neccessary to improve as a society. That's it. Generations will pass, nobody will question this. Anyone who does can prepare his place in jail.

First

Deny him military role he was not a good military leader. Your second sentence is what i would sign under it. Second you you wrote poverrrty wrong. AND HIS GREATEST FEHLER WAS THAT NOW I CANT READ ARAB ALPHABET IT IS BAD. AND HIS SECOND GREATEST FEHLER IST FORCING PEOPLE WEAR WHAT INFIDELS WEAR.

But infidels were afraid of muslims. Because we were the source of moral so they didnot dress up like they wanted. And of course their religion didn't have effect on them much. Now if you go to the istanbul for the morning prayer you ask yourself if this place our prophet's SAV state . But if you there night you ask yourself is this state state of anti muslim state ?