Kemal Ataturk

Akeyi said:
First

Deny him military role he was not a good military leader. Your second sentence is what i would sign under it. Second you you wrote poverrrty wrong. AND HIS GREATEST FEHLER WAS THAT NOW I CANT READ ARAB ALPHABET IT IS BAD. AND HIS SECOND GREATEST FEHLER IST FORCING PEOPLE WEAR WHAT INFIDELS WEAR.

But infidels were afraid of muslims. Because we were the source of moral so they didnot dress up like they wanted. And of course their religion didn't have effect on them much. Now if you go to the istanbul for the morning prayer you ask yourself if this place our prophet's SAV state . But if you there night you ask yourself is this state state of anti muslim state ?
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Excuse me but I can't really understand what you mean, brother. You write English-German mixed.

Yahya. said:
Executing those scholars and prohibiting Arabic was neccessary to improve as a society.
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Maybe I should put this under quoatation. I wrote that as an example for my statement that people would accept what the government says because criticism on new reforms wasn't tolerated and violently suppressed.
 
I haven't had the chance yet to go through this whole thread, but let me say this:

Kemal Attaturk was a Kaafir and an enemy of Islaam. He hated the Deen and tried to destroy it.
 
Huzaifah ibn Adam said:
I haven't had the chance yet to go through this whole thread, but let me say this:

Kemal Attaturk was a Kaafir and an enemy of Islaam. He hated the Deen and tried to destroy it.
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Ask any scholar, they will tell you he was a kuffar and a secrete jew who outwardly pretended to be Muslim. Those who are defending him are doing so out of ignorance, some nationalistic loyalty or some kind of neutrality. This is not making takfeer on him, his words and his actions put him out of the fold of Islam. You will not find any scholar or anyone sound of deen deny his kufr.
 
aaj said:
Ask any scholar, they will tell you he was a kuffar and a secrete jew who outwardly pretended to be Muslim. Those who are defending him are doing so out of ignorance, some nationalistic loyalty or some kind of neutrality. This is not making takfeer on him, his words and his actions put him out of the fold of Islam. You will not find any scholar or anyone sound of deen deny his kufr.
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That actually is takfir. That's exactly what that is. And I will explain.

If he had openly apostasized, then he would have put himself outside the fold of Islam. But he did not do that. He set about some rapid reform efforts, but he continued to practice Islam and always claimed to be a Muslim.

Under those circumstances, what you're doing absolutely is takfir. You stop well short of it insofar as you are merely critical of his decisions, and insofar as you claim that he was bad for Islam. But then you say he's kufr, and There it is, right there, that is takfir. Yes it is. And then you basically say "It's not takfir because I think I have good reasons for my takfir." Actually mate, you're not supposed to do this takfir thing Even If you think you have good reasons. Takfir is supposed to be something that you don't ever do, at all, period, full stop. That is literally the whole point of it being disallowed, the whole purpose is to stop you from doing what you just did.
 
cooterhein said:
That could potentially happen by means of a shared national identity. That's especially likely in a peaceful secular society that's free of supremacist tendencies.
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secularism

means religion can not interfere state's business and state can not interfere religion.

First ataturk used state's power to hurt religion anyway he can. Killed people just because they wanted to wear things our prophet wears. SAV. Made mosques stables.

CHANGED ADHAN

CChanged alphabet which cut our connection with muslim word. Destroyed Khalif. Destroyed Sharia. Forced women to wear what infidels wear. Forbid reading quran. Forbid any religious education which lead to lack of imam's then people could not bury their deads. Uncountable number of dead imams just because they refused . It is tragic there is a song ataturk ordered a ship to go bomb a city. Of course he orders to bomb his own country. People wrote that song Dont shoot hamidiye Dont shoot we will give taxes we will wear HATS. Started village schools which forced children to go it seems like ok but children used to stay there and learn how to be acommunist . Greatest communists said that that is the dream school in my dreams. Established a national ideology which made people believe islam is bad. Also wanted to do what luther did. He wanted to make a reform in religion. He put desks in mosques and said you will speak turkish and use this desks like in churches. TURKEY BECAME THE STATE who has most STATUES. GUESS WHOSE STATUES ARE THEY ? His statues. The things he done is uncountable. Other than that he made all those things with an army calls himself we are little MUHAMMEDs SAV.

And you are saying these are not interfering to religion. All those things already aganist secularism. A man said if you blow of the ashes of this nation you will find emaan there. Other than that ISLAM ALREADY ORDERS SHARIA. SO SECULARISM IS NOT WHAT WE WANT.
 
cooterhein said:
he continued to practice Islam and always claimed to be a Muslim.
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Is this sentence just to fill length? Please bring me one incident where he practiced Islam after 1924 and evidence the he once claimed to be Muslim after 1924. I don't know any historian -regardless of religion- who states that he was a Muslim.

He believed in Naturalism.
According to Mustafa Kamal ''there is nothing besides nature, people thinking otherwise are in delusion''
İhsan Akay - Atatürkçülğün İlkeleri (The principles of Ataturkism) page 133

''Nature derived humans and made them worship it. But for the humans to live on the face of earth it stipulated their sovereignty upon itself. '' 3rd May 1935 Etimesgut Air Base
 
If Atatürk was such a dictator why did not he openly claim to be non-Muslim, atheist or what ever he was? I also don't think he had fear of anyone. Khilafah and Shariah was unconditional parts of Islam and he had enough "courage" to abolish these institutions. However, he had no where said that he didn't believe in Islam.

Turkish people had and I believe will have an important place in Islam and Atatürk rising up with a very critical timing saved this nation from termination. Ofcourse he did this thing with other poeple but he was the master mind. A Turkish Muslim must just respect him.
 
cooterhein said:
That actually is takfir. That's exactly what that is. And I will explain.

If he had openly apostasized, then he would have put himself outside the fold of Islam. But he did not do that. He set about some rapid reform efforts, but he continued to practice Islam and always claimed to be a Muslim.

Under those circumstances, what you're doing absolutely is takfir. You stop well short of it insofar as you are merely critical of his decisions, and insofar as you claim that he was bad for Islam. But then you say he's kufr, and There it is, right there, that is takfir. Yes it is. And then you basically say "It's not takfir because I think I have good reasons for my takfir." Actually mate, you're not supposed to do this takfir thing Even If you think you have good reasons. Takfir is supposed to be something that you don't ever do, at all, period, full stop. That is literally the whole point of it being disallowed, the whole purpose is to stop you from doing what you just did.
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A Christian is going to teach us what is takfir and how it is used?

I didn't say he's kufr, i said he's a kuffar who committed kufr. Know the difference between kuffar and kufr?

Regardless of what the laymen say on here, the scholars are clear on this and his actions on what he did against Islam, putting him out of Islam, is clear. End of story.
 
aaj said:
Regardless of what the laymen say on here, the scholars are clear on this and his actions on what he did against Islam, putting him out of Islam, is clear. End of story.
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Unless he openly apostasized (which he did not), he didn't get put out of Islam.

That is the end of the story.
 
Scimitar said:
Ataturk, doesn't even deserve a thread on this forum.

Scimi
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you just say this 2 this 2 this 2 too many times
then you say this is not 2

saying things which aganist each other destroys power of your words
 
anatolian said:
If Atatürk was such a dictator why did not he openly claim to be non-Muslim, atheist or what ever he was? I also don't think he had fear of anyone. Khilafah and Shariah was unconditional parts of Islam and he had enough "courage" to abolish these institutions. However, he had no where said that he didn't believe in Islam.

Turkish people had and I believe will have an important place in Islam and Atatürk rising up with a very critical timing saved this nation from termination. Ofcourse he did this thing with other poeple but he was the master mind. A Turkish Muslim must just respect him.
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Ever heard of the Donmeh? Lol surely you as a Turk would know that word.

Ataturk was a crypto-Jew

Scimi
 
Bro, have a shower... this is where you become rather irate over your nation, all over again.

TO be honest, it's boring the crap out of me.

Turkey, is a turkey. A bird which cannot fly. It's related to the chicken like that.

Period.

Scimi
 
Scimitar said:
Turkey, is a turkey. A bird which cannot fly.
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That´s why it was an easy target for the Americans whose stuffed it with Nato and other westernizing and ate it at the Thanksgiving Day?

(Got kind of association from that sentence of Scimi. :p: )
 
TURKEY were and will be our prophet's state.

Turkey is name found by frankreich Ottoman empire is name ottoman empire didn't prefer. Ottoman empire is the state of our prophet sav. Since the Hz Ali. Islam didn't have a time like ottoman empire. And until the turkey becomes state of our prophet there won't be any state like ottoman empire.

ATATÜRK İS GREATEST PROVE THAT OTTOMAN EMPIRE WERE OUR PROPHET'S STATE.

AND I FORGOT TO SHARE THE BOOK I MENTIONED

http://www.erisale.com/index.jsp?locale=en#content.en.204.103
 

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