Libya Protests

[Argamemnon]

I agree. The mainstream media rarely reports about the relationship between Uzbekistan and America + UK. Uzbekistan is a dictatorship and tortures civilians, most who are Muslims.

Very true.. also, those rulers in Turkic states prefer relations with the devil over relations with Turkey. The so-called "Turkic world" or "Arab world" only exists on paper.. Just try and imagine a "Turkic world" and "Arab world" uniting and working together. Together we possess most of the world's natural resources and most strategic locations in the world, as well as young populations... we are so unbelievably stupid, may Allah guide our so-called leaders.

It is much easier for a country to work with a dictatorship because dictators can put foreign needs first rather than its own civilians...

Well said brother, so true.

 

[Grace Seeker]

It's really shocking! It's as if all what we used to hear about Libya nothing but lies!!
The scense of the dead bodies in streets is awful!! I can agree that Qadafi was suggesting good union projects for the middle east, but what about his own people? What did he do for them?

I think not all Libyans were living a good life. It seems that there were specific groups preffered over others I think their media was generalizing and only showing those who always get support from Qaddafi!

May Allah grant all the ummah peace!

Both shocking and sad. Sometimes it is hard to tell what is and what is not truth. It appears that Qadafi was never interested in either Islam in general or Libyans in particular as much as he was interested in Qadafi. At least the blinders have been removed, though at a terrible price. May Libya find new leaders that truly care for her.

 

[Grace Seeker]

A very typical western attitude, forming public opinion, demonizing people/countries, then intervene to profit...

Is that a "western" attitude or a capitalist attitude? Seems more the second to me. I realize there is a lot of overlap, but the attitude doesn't spring from geography as much as it does from economic philosophy and personal greed, two things that are in large supply but not limited to the west. Nor are they universally held values in the west either.

 

[GuestFellow]

David Cameron says Gaddafi 'has got to go'

^ I hate him. Why does he care so about what is going on in Libya? There many brutal dictators (e.g. Uzbekistan), why does he not take an aggressive approach to deal with those leaders too?

How can this idiot get involved in other countries affairs, when he cannot resolve problems like mass unemployment, violent gangs, teenage pregnancy and I can go on forever. He is full of backwas!!!

 

[Dagless]

Warning: contains music.

 

[titus]

The Arab League and the opposition leaders are asking for the West, and the US specifically, to create a no-fly zone in Libya.

It is much easier for a country to work with a dictatorship because dictators can put foreign needs first rather than its own civilians...

True, but that is realpolitik. I don't recall anyone here saying that all countries should stop any diplomatic relations with Libya (or Egypt or Tunisia or any other dictatorship) before on this forum, nor have I seen anyone criticize any non-Western countries for dealing with them. Why is that?

The US, for example, was deeply critical of Qadafi and even performed some military actions against him, which I am sure have been criticized by the same people that claim the US shouldn't have had diplomatic ties with his regime.

If you believe that your nation (whatever that nation should be) should cut all diplomatic and economic ties with any nation with which they don't agree with how they run their internal politics... well good luck. The world just doesn't work that way and it never has. It is unrealistic and extremely un-pragmatic.

Who on this board said this?

Anyone who "stands up to the West" has been lauded on this forum at one time or another. All negative attributes are ignored.

Take for example... Hugo Chavez, who is supporting Qadafi. Also take for example Iran, which is applauding the people of Egypt while at the same time killing it's own people for doing the same thing.

There are some people that really need to stop looking at the world through their "The West is evil and everything wrong in the world is because of them" glasses and face reality.

 

[Argamemnon]

I don't recall anyone here saying that all countries should stop any diplomatic relations with Libya (or Egypt or Tunisia or any other dictatorship) before on this forum, nor have I seen anyone criticize any non-Western countries for dealing with them. Why is that?

Because the majority of those non-western nations don't have a history of exploiting and plundering other nations.

There are some people that really need to stop looking at the world through their "The West is evil and everything wrong in the world is because of them" glasses and face reality.

It would be wrong to argue that the West is the "sole source" of all evil in the world. However, western imperialism and exploitation and aggression against "third world" nations is a reality. All "third world" nations are sceptic when dealing with western governments, there is little trust due to the abysmal track record of western states.

 

[Pygoscelis]

The powerful exploit the weak. This is nothing new. This has happened since cave man times.

 

[Argamemnon]

The powerful exploit the weak. This is nothing new. This has happened since cave man times.

1) Why was your friend titus criticizing the weak when they are the victims of western injustice? He should be criticizing his own government.

2) Why are you trying to justify injustice?? I think it's because you are an atheist and have no morals whatsoever. You believe in the "survival of the fittest" nonsense.

As a Muslim I completely reject all your materialistic ideas and ideologies and explanations. The weak have the right to fight back injustice, but when they do you call them "terrorists".

 

[Trumble]

The Arab League and the opposition leaders are asking for the West, and the US specifically, to create a no-fly zone in Libya.

If the Arab League want a no fly zone to help the anti-Gaddafi forces (at their request) , why do they need 'the West' to do it? They've bought enough American and Russian planes between them over the years; why not do it themselves?

 

[KAding]

If the Arab League want a no fly zone to help the anti-Gaddafi forces (at their request) , why do they need 'the West' to do it? They've bought enough American and Russian planes between them over the years; why not do it themselves?

Yes, I don't understand that either. Maybe they don't have the radar capability to enforce a no-fly zone? Egypt certainly has a big enough airforce to do it though. And I can't image range being an issue, especially over Eastern Libya.

 

[Amat Allah]

His mental illness made ​​him a bloody monster...I really don`t know what he will do when standing before Allah in the Day of Judgement, yes I know that he killed many people and I know that he is not normal even before this happens in Libya....he done many ugly and vicious things to his people, he used to murder them before in ugly ways so, this is not new to him and I won`t be surprised ...

May Allah guide him Ameeen and if there is no guidance for him then May Allah protect the libyan people from him by the way He Wills Ameeeen

 

[titus]

1) Why was your friend titus criticizing the weak when they are the victims of western injustice? He should be criticizing his own government.

How exactly was I criticizing the weak? Please quote me.

And if you want to know what one of the roots of the problem is in that part of the world it is the willingness of the people to believe that all their problems are caused by outside forces. Every government in the region knows and uses to their full advantage. They know they can say the most absurd things and blame it on the US, Israel or any other "foreign agents" and the people will eat it up. Look at Mubarak who blamed foreign agents for the protest. Look at Qadafi who is blaming drug influenced Al Qaeda. Look at Iran, at Saudi Arabia, etc. etc. They all use it, and they use it because they know their people are sheep who will fall for it.

Except that now people aren't falling for it. Now people are ignoring the finger pointing and getting rid of the true oppressors. Instead of focusing on a feaux external enemy they are realizing that their true worst enemy is within.

And yet people here still want to turn every topic into one that is anti-Western. They still try and blame every issue in the Muslim world on "The West" or on "Zionists", when the truth is that the people could have woken up at any time in the past few decades and rid themselves of these tyrants yet they didn't. The fault for allowing these tyrants to rule lays mainly with the people of those countries, not some external bogeyman.

2) Why are you trying to justify injustice?? I think it's because you are an atheist and have no morals whatsoever. You believe in the "survival of the fittest" nonsense.

I think you missed the point. He wasn't justifying. He was explaining.

And whether you believe in "survival of the fittest" or not it does exist.

Look at Rome. Persia. The Arab conquests. The British Empire.

 

[GuestFellow]

Every government in the region knows and uses to their full advantage. They know they can say the most absurd things and blame it on the US, Israel or any other "foreign agents" and the people will eat it up. Look at Mubarak who blamed foreign agents for the protest. Look at Qadafi who is blaming drug influenced Al Qaeda. Look at Iran, at Saudi Arabia, etc. etc. They all use it, and they use it because they know their people are sheep who will fall for it.

I do agree that the government does blame other groups or countries for their own domestic problems. For example, the Iranian leader is hostile towards Israel to gain mass support and to divert attention from its poor economy. The Iranian government also blamed the BBC for causing the protests.

Except that now people aren't falling for it. Now people are ignoring the finger pointing and getting rid of the true oppressors. Instead of focusing on a feaux external enemy they are realizing that their true worst enemy is within.

I agree that internal issues within a country should be the main priority but, there are external forces that prefer to work with dictators and might actually get involved. External forces cannot be ignored.

And yet people here still want to turn every topic into one that is anti-Western.

Let's not generalise.

They still try and blame every issue in the Muslim world on "The West" or on "Zionists", when the truth is that the people could have woken up at any time in the past few decades and rid themselves of these tyrants yet they didn't.

Muslims on this forum are capable of blaming Muslims for some problems. For example, Muslims on this forum have blamed the Saudi Monarchy for the country's domestic problems, like poverty and unemployment.

How exactly was I criticizing the weak? Please quote me.

Well...you just did now:

:

The fault for allowing these tyrants to rule lays mainly with the people of those countries, not some external bogeyman.

The majority of those people are weak. By weak I mean they do not have political power and are poor. It is extremely difficult to topple dictators because it requires unity and there is a risk that it might not work. So you are criticising these people.

The US is at fault to some extent. You should watch this, though I know you are not a fan of Noam Chomsky...

Noam Chomsky on "Why Do They Hate US, When We're So Good?"

 

[KAding]

I agree. The mainstream media rarely reports about the relationship between Uzbekistan and America + UK. Uzbekistan is a dictatorship and tortures civilians, most who are Muslims.

It is much easier for a country to work with a dictatorship because dictators can put foreign needs first rather than its own civilians...

The rulers are there, thats why every country in the world 'works' with them. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Argamemnon]

The rulers are there, thats why every country in the world 'works' with them. Nothing more, nothing less.

So that gives others the right to take full advantage of the situation and expoit the country to the detriment of their citizens?

 

[KAding]

Personally, I feel sorry for the Libyan revolters. I am not sure what they stand for exactly, but things aren't looking good for them. I don't think it'll be pretty once Khadaffi regains control of the east of the country.

But I don't think there is much we can do without making it worse! If some neighboring countries want to help the rebes, they should. But the West should stay as far away as possible from this, even if our primary instinct tells us to 'do something'.

 

[GuestFellow]

The rulers are there, thats why every country in the world 'works' with them. Nothing more, nothing less.

Are you sure?

Noam Chomsky on "Why Do They Hate US, When We're So Good?"

 

[Argamemnon]

And yet people here still want to turn every topic into one that is anti-Western. They still try and blame every issue in the Muslim world on "The West" or on "Zionists", when the truth is that the people could have woken up at any time in the past few decades and rid themselves of these tyrants yet they didn't. The fault for allowing these tyrants to rule lays mainly with the people of those countries, not some external bogeyman.

First, internal problems in other countries (Middle East, North Africa or any other region in the world) is none of anybody else's business. I can assure you that nobody in the Middle East or North Africa cares about U.S internal affairs. Second, the West - including "Israel" - ARE attacking and exploiting and plundering the Middle East, this is not science fiction!!! It's been going on for a very very long time now...

Who overthrew Dr. Mossadegh and installed the brutal dictator Shah in Iran? We all know the reason, I'm just wondering whether you are really that ignorant or just trying to upset people for fun or out of boredom.

 

[Trumble]

First, internal problems in other countries (Middle East, North Africa or any other region in the world) is none of anybody else's business.

What a sad view of the world. Genocide? Torture? Starvation? Oh, somewhere else. None of my business then.

Actually, BTW, an awful lot of people in the Middle East and North Africa care a great deal about its internal affairs.. particularly economic ones. Generally Americans don't resort to armed conflict to resolve economic disputes, though. Not since 1865, anyway.