Libya Protests

[Zuzubu]

I read about Muammar Gaddafi and he used to sleep at mosque, and started a revolution. He wasn't that rich, so he walked many miles to school every week home and back I have read.

Also that he made the film The Message (he financed it with his money, not made all of it). He also kept americans away.

I also read an article from Hizb-Ut-Tahrir Denmark where they said that people are only going to Libya for oil.

 

[titus]

I also read an article from Hizb-Ut-Tahrir Denmark where they said that people are only going to Libya for oil.

Don't believe everything you read. Libya isn't even in the top 15 nations when it comes to oil production, and Western countries already buy oil from Libya, so attacking won't change that nor make that any easier. They certainly aren't going to go in there and then have the UN take over their oil industry to take the profits.

Does the article explain how enforcing a no-fly zone is supposed to help the West get their oil? Especially since it seem that the smartest way to keep the Libyan oil flowing would be to help Gadafi win, not to help the rebels.

 

[Dagless]

Don't believe everything you read. Libya isn't even in the top 15 nations when it comes to oil production, and Western countries already buy oil from Libya, so attacking won't change that nor make that any easier. They certainly aren't going to go in there and then have the UN take over their oil industry to take the profits.

Actually almost a 10th of Europe's oil is Libyan so it's very significant. They do buy oil from Libya but if this goes on then their supply will be affected.

Does the article explain how enforcing a no-fly zone is supposed to help the West get their oil?

It will shorten the time needed for an outcome.

Especially since it seem that the smartest way to keep the Libyan oil flowing would be to help Gadafi win, not to help the rebels.

Gaddafi has already bombed some of his own oil facilities, I don't think supporting him would make their oil supply any safer.

 

[Woodrow]

I couldn't disagree more brother woodrow, I'm reading books about western politics and international relations and I know for sure that they never care about other natons and peoples. They only want to preserve their hegemony and oppression.

My respected Brother,

On a personal I myself like all Americans I know, do care very much about the welfare of people in other nations. I will agree that the actions of our government often times does not reflect this. But the intention of the majority of the American people is one of compassion for others.

I do strongly oppose the wasichu government of the USA and am especially appalled at how those of us who live on Native American reservations are treated. But, that does not honestly reflect how the American people are. Sadly we are a very lazy group and too often fail to remind our government it is our servant and the people are the master.

Our biggest problem is we Americans fail in the responsibility in keeping our government under control, we too often have the attitude of thinking our politicians are following the will of the people.

Our sins are those of procrastination and apathy. We are too lazy to stand up and remind our government that it works for us, we pay their salary and neglect to keep track of how they spend our money.

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Good interview (paxmans the interviewer) here about the whole middle east situation with particular attention paid to Libya.

Part 1

Part 2

 

[Ramadhan]

Libya isn't even in the top 15 nations when it comes to oil production,

You are not giving a full picture, hence misleading.
It is true that Libya sits just outside top 15 nations in term of oil production, but:
it is in top 15 on the oil exporter ranking, which is more useful for the importer like europe and USA
it is ranked at #9 just behind Russia in terms of proven oil reserves (2010, CIA world fact book), which is even more useful for future supply,
and most importantly,
It is located literally on the mediterranean, right next to europe, the closests oil producing country to europe, which is far from volatile middle east and outside russia influence.

Truth is, europe is salivating and can't wait to enter Libya.

 

[titus]

Truth is, europe is salivating and can't wait to enter Libya.

And why exactly is that, do you believe? Do you think Europe is going to take over control of Libyas oil supply and give it to themselves for free?

How, exactly, do you believe that the UN helping the rebels is going to equate to cheap oil for Europe?

 

[LavaDog]

And why exactly is that, do you believe? Do you think Europe is going to take over control of Libyas oil supply and give it to themselves for free?

Well not for free, but the British did that with Iran.

How, exactly, do you believe that the UN helping the rebels is going to equate to cheap oil for Europe?

Its not really about oil. Lybia along with Iran is one of the only countries that has a state owned central bank instead of using the IMF. They just financed the rebels to get their foot in the door.

 

[Maryan0]

The hypocrisy of these people never ceases to amaze me. Why don't they call for an intervention in the Ivory Coast there is heavy fighting going on there or is there concern only limited to oil producing nations. This isn't about the Libyan people it's about oil and the prices that are continuing to rise the longer the fighting continues.
Salam

 

[Trumble]

The hypocrisy of these people never ceases to amaze me. Why don't they call for an intervention in the Ivory Coast there is heavy fighting going on there or is there concern only limited to oil producing nations. This isn't about the Libyan people it's about oil and the prices that are continuing to rise the longer the fighting continues.
Salam

Perhaps then you could enlighten us as to why the Arab League asked for this action? Surely increasing oil prices would be in their best interests, considering the amount of the stuff they export - particularly with nuclear power suddenly becoming much less popular for obvious, and very sad reasons? Or why Lebanon jointly sponsored it.. how are they being hypocritical?

 

[Zuzubu]

Guys you know, eventhough they dont got much oil, the libyan oil is special, it is not full of bad materials, it is very clean and more useful than normal oil.

But I don't get it? Airplanes can't help it. I mean what will they do? Kill Gaddafi? Kill civilians? Drop bombs? It is cowarded to use jets, why not go there by foot, or hire people to capture Gaddafi (if he isn't already in some south american jungle hidding)

 

[Maryan0]

Perhaps then you could enlighten us as to why the Arab League asked for this action? Surely increasing oil prices would be in their best interests, considering the amount of the stuff they export - particularly with nuclear power suddenly becoming much less popular for obvious, and very sad reasons? Or why Lebanon jointly sponsored it.. how are they being hypocritical?

Perhaps you can read the many threads on this forum so you can gauge what the majority of Muslims think of the Arab league and the leaders of the Muslim world in general?
Hiding behind the notion of what a select few of out of touch leaders and puppets of the west think is a pretty weak argument. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why the western world is so willing to interfere in Libya while ignoring similar situations in less strategic and oil rich nations like the Ivory Coast. They have an agenda and it's not concern for the Libyan people. History and previous interventions in the global south have shown otherwise.
Salam

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Don't believe everything you read. Libya isn't even in the top 15 nations when it comes to oil production, and Western countries already buy oil from Libya, so attacking won't change that nor make that any easier. They certainly aren't going to go in there and then have the UN take over their oil industry to take the profits.

is there anytime an American army advances towards a land, expect for robbing the people of their wealth?

 

[Trumble]

Guys you know, eventhough they dont got much oil, the libyan oil is special, it is not full of bad materials, it is very clean and more useful than normal oil.

But I don't get it? Airplanes can't help it. I mean what will they do? Kill Gaddafi? Kill civilians? Drop bombs? It is cowarded to use jets, why not go there by foot, or hire people to capture Gaddafi (if he isn't already in some south american jungle hidding)

The UN resolution specifically forbids 'going there by foot' (or tank, or truck or...) . The purpose of the planes is to enforce the no-fly zone which means, if necessary, shooting down Gaddafi's planes before THEY drop bombs and kill civilians. Amazingly enough, the only way to do that is with those 'cowardly' jets.

Perhaps you can read the many threads on this forum so you can gauge what the majority of Muslims think of the Arab league and the leaders of the Muslim world in general?
Hiding behind the notion of what a select few of out of touch leaders and puppets of the west think is a pretty weak argument. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why the western world is so willing to interfere in Libya while ignoring similar situations in less strategic and oil rich nations like the Ivory Coast. They have an agenda and it's not concern for the Libyan people. History and previous interventions in the global south have shown otherwise.
Salam

Nothing could be done in the Ivory Coast without the use of ground forces, who would essentially be taking sides in a civil war. In such a situation it would not be possible to gear all operations towards protecting civilians. Exactly the same would be true in Libya were ground troops used.. see above. As to nations 'like' the Ivory Coast, the West, and particularly the US, still has massive collective guilt about not getting involved in Rwanda... something that almost certainly would have happened were it not for the Mogadishu incident the year before that effectively ended a substantial humanitarian intervention in Somalia, and the effect that had on public opinion. I note you deliberately exclude it with 'global south', but how much oil was there in Kosovo?

What you haven't said yet in criticizing everybody else is what you think should happen. The intervention only happened when it became apparent Gaddafi would be likely to win, and hence show "no mercy, no pity" to his opponents. Is that what you would prefer to see?

is there anytime an American army advances towards a land, expect for robbing the people of their wealth?

Aside from in their own backyard in the nineteenth century, are you actually able to name a single instance where that has actually happened other than on an individual scale (which is true of all armies, everywhere)? Feel free to compare the actions of the US army in that regard with those of whoever they happened to be fighting at the time.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Aside from in their own backyard in the nineteenth century, are you actually able to name a single instance where that has actually happened other than on an individual scale (which is true of all armies, everywhere)? Feel free to compare the actions of the US army in that regard with those of whoever they happened to be fighting at the time.

not to point out the obvious, but Iraq. oh and for your second request, the Iraqis are fighting the Americans because they want their own wealth to belong to them. ta da, not difficult at all.

 

[Argamemnon]

Let me get this straight; western governments want to bomb Libya because it's a "brutal regime". Then why are they not bombing Israel (which is a much more brutal regime than Libya has ever been). Why don't we hear calls to bomb Israel in the glorious Western media?

Can somebody explain to me why the West doesn't want to get rid of the brutal Israeli regime? I know I won't get a rational answer from our human rights champions on this board. And then they find it very odd that people across the world don't trust western governments. Hello??

 

[Trumble]

not to point out the obvious, but Iraq. oh and for your second request, the Iraqis are fighting the Americans because they want their own wealth to belong to them. ta da, not difficult at all.

To difficult for you, it seems. Exactly what wealth has been stolen? And what Iraqis are fighting the Americans now? Which Iraqis ever did for that reason? And the Iraqis who fought, fight and get blown up by them, was it because they wanted the Americans to steal their wealth?!

Get real. Try again.

Let me get this straight; western governments want to bomb Libya because it's a "brutal regime". Then why are they not bombing Israel (which is a much more brutal regime than Libya has ever been). Why don't we hear calls to bomb Israel in the glorious Western media?

No, 'western governments', not to mention other Arab governments (I know.. 'puppets', blah, blah.. just like Lebanon.. cough..) do not want to 'bomb Libya' at all. They want to stop Gaddafi bombing it. Same question as to Maryan0; is that what you want to happen?

Can somebody explain to me why the West doesn't want to get rid of the brutal Israeli regime? I know I won't get a rational answer from our human rights champions on this board. And then they find it very odd that people across the world don't trust western governments. Hello??

Hello,

1) Because it's rather less brutal than many others, and attempting to get rid of it would kill far more people than not attempting to do so.

3) It's very hard to get rid of a democratic elected regime and provide any alternative other than a dictatorship of some sort.

2) Because there are no votes in it, and no economic interests in it.

3) Because militarily it would be extremely difficult to do (as Arab armies have already discovered on several occasions).

 

[shibly11]

He started his career as a Libyan strong man and ended up a joker.I don't think any leader in the whole world behaves like him.
It is time he steps down and pave the way for a democratic government.The people of Libyan have tolerated this joker for more than 40 years.

 

[Perseveranze]

Disappointing, was expecting one Muslim army to be the first to go in there to support Not even for Palastine did it happen. Guess no one does anything unless there's some benefit in it for themselves.

 

[Dagless]

To difficult for you, it seems. Exactly what wealth has been stolen? And what Iraqis are fighting the Americans now? Which Iraqis ever did for that reason? And the Iraqis who fought, fight and get blown up by them, was it because they wanted the Americans to steal their wealth?!

Get real. Try again.

Nothing... apart from a guaranteed oil supply, countless multi-billion dollar foreign contracts, and a message for anyone else who wants to stand against the US.

Hello,

1) Because it's rather less brutal than many others, and attempting to get rid of it would kill far more people than not attempting to do so.

3) It's very hard to get rid of a democratic elected regime and provide any alternative other than a dictatorship of some sort.

2) Because there are no votes in it, and no economic interests in it.

3) Because militarily it would be extremely difficult to do (as Arab armies have already discovered on several occasions).

Your maths is comparable to your logic.