Lifting of Muslim boycott of Holocaust Memorial Day

[Jayda]

hola Fishman,

while i agree with you about conspiracy theories and all of this antisemitic nonsense about 'zionism' i still think Omar had an important point... somewhat clouded by the unfortunate way he chose to express it:

israel is unusual in the modern world... it was carved out of the homeland of somebody else, people were literally shipped into the area to create the country and the reason for all of this was a UN mandate written specifically in response to the holocaust, an event for which the palestinians had no part and committed no culpability.

why did the palestinians have to lose their homes for restitution of a crime committed by somebody else?

it is, i think, one of the burning questions of history. so Omar's frustration... and presumably the frustration many muslims feel with regards to celebrating holocaust memorial, is justified in that they are once again told to answer for a crime they did not commit.

i guess the excess baggage to them means the Holocaust did not end in 1945... it continued into the 50's and 60's and is left as an unanswered question even into today.



but in my mind, trying to make amends for the unjust circumstances of the creation of Israel is not worth pursuing... now two generations of israelis later it would be making amends for an offense not given. these are a new generation, this is their home... they belong here too. and to dwell on it only increases hatred and makes peace more elusive.

the question that needs to be answered now is how do we get them all to live together cohesively and with equal opportunity, forgetting what has passed.

que Dios te bendiga

 

[caroline]

Re: Muslim boycott of Holocaust Memorial Day

What a lie. If non-Muslims cared about the suffering and genocide against Muslims so much it would end tomorrow. America is supposedly the strongest nation on Earth, why do majority of americans vote for a government that perpetuates massacred against innocent Muslims. Give me a break non-Muslims care about Muslims that is the biggest joke I ever heard. Non-Muslims hate Muslims and our religion, and it brings a smile to their face when they see Muslims being killed by Israel and America and NATO.

I don't blame you one bit for feeling the way you do, but I have to tell you that I DO care and I cared way before I ever considered converting to Islam. As a matter of fact, I cared so much I went straight to the books to find out more about you and that is how I came to LOVE Islam. Because my heart was so broken for Palestinians, Iraqis and all Muslim people who are now victims of a holocaust just as horrible as the one that happened in Europe. I do everything I can to increase awareness in my fellow US residents (I don't use the word "american" out of respect for the many nations living on this continent). And I frankly am not sure that the people in the White House did actually win the majority vote.

So please, don't think we are all duped by the corporatocracy -- we're not. And many of us are doing everything we can to stop the present war on Islam. Many of us care deeply. Many of us protest and get arrested and thrown in jail. Youtube war protesters and you'll see how the police treat us when we try to make our voices heard. Over 80% of the people in the US are very VERY disapproving of our current administration but our voices are not being heard. We put bills before the House and Senate and when they pass the president vetoes them. There are bills that have been passed 2 or 3 times and he continues to veto them.

A lot of us care more than you know.

 

[MTAFFI]

i think it is more important that they lifted the ban than that it was ever in place... it was the right thing to do and we should always applaud right action

excellent point

 

[Amadeus85]

People who believe in ridiculous conspiracy theories about Zionists and Freemasons and Crusaders only do so because they have not developed their views properly. It is very convienent to distort the world into a black and white 'goodies and baddies' picture, because it is easy to understand.

Laugh if you want, but no one will convince me that there is no powerful masonery, in France for example.

The War in Bosnia was an example of the agression of a combination of Nationalism and Christianity against Muslims, which was stopped by a combination of Democracy and Christianity. It is easy to see that Religion divided the people, but it was Nationalism that caused the slaughter

.

The war in Bosnia had very little to do with religion, but much to do with nationalism and culture. For Bosniaks islam was mainly culture and nationalism, the same with orthodox christianity and Serbs and catholicism and Croatians

I think Nationalism is one of the most evil forces alive in the world today, one which must be ripped from the people's hearts and minds, and skewered with the very flag which it waves so arrogantly

I dont agree. In your statement you sound like a totalitarian. You dont like something, so you want to blow it away from the earth. I dont agree with you also because nationalism was one of the things that communists fought with (along with religion and private posession) and for me everything that communists fought with is good and valuable.

 

[caroline]

hola Fishman,

while i agree with you about conspiracy theories and all of this antisemitic nonsense about 'zionism' t

Woah -- all opposition to Zionism is not "antisemitic." You need to read up on Zionism. It is not nonsense and the massacre of Palestinians is not a thing of the past. Zionism is one of the most destructive, horrendous, evil forces in the world today and I will not candy coat it. Do some serious research on Zionism and you will see that concerns about it are not nonsense and they are not antisemitic.

Read Noam Chomsky, Ilan Pappe, or many other serious studies. We all need to know the truth about this issue.

 

[Amadeus85]

Read Noam Chomsky, Ilan Pappe, or many other serious studies. We all need to know the truth about this issue.

Noam Chomsky and the truth is like water and fire.

 

[Jayda]

i like Noam Chomsky...

 

[Jayda]

Woah -- all opposition to Zionism is not "antisemitic." You need to read up on Zionism. It is not nonsense and the massacre of Palestinians is not a thing of the past. Zionism is one of the most destructive, horrendous, evil forces in the world today and I will not candy coat it. Do some serious research on Zionism and you will see that concerns about it are not nonsense and they are not antisemitic.

Read Noam Chomsky, Ilan Pappe, or many other serious studies. We all need to know the truth about this issue.

hola,

i'm sorry... you are simply incorrect...

que Dios te bendiga

 

[glo]

I've changed the thread title to more accurately convey the news story in the first post, and to prevent some hostile nuttiness.

Thank you, Muezzin. Good idea!

 

[Talha777]

Caroline is an example of a good christian, but the unfortunate truth is way too many christians and westerners are completely silent and ignore the persecution of Muslims by their governments. This needs to change if there is ever to be reconciliation between Muslims and Christians. More Christians need to start speaking out against their genocidal government otherwise how can Muslims be blamed if they perceive christians as their enemy when they have no reason not to perceive this. More Christians need to raise their voice and let Muslims know that a lot of them dont agree and are against the Western governments exploitation and genocide of Muslims.

 

[wilberhum]

Caroline is an example of a good christian, but the unfortunate truth is way too many christians and westerners are completely silent and ignore the persecution of Muslims by their governments.
And far too many Muslims deney the terror done in the name of there god.
This needs to change if there is ever to be reconciliation between Muslims and Christians.
And the Muslims that justify terrorism need to change before reconciliation can happen.
More Christians need to start speaking out against their genocidal government otherwise how can Muslims be blamed if they perceive christians as their enemy when they have no reason not to perceive this.
Looking at many things you have said, how can we not perceive Muslims as our enemy?
More Christians need to raise their voice and let Muslims know that a lot of them dont agree and are against the Western governments exploitation and genocide of Muslims.
More Muslims need to raise there voice and let the world know that a lot of you don't agree with terrorism.

Talha666,
There is a constant theme in your post. For reconciliation there are a lot of things "The Others" need to do. But you never mention anything that Muslims need to do,

This nothing other than your standard form of superiority.

 

[snakelegs]

yeah, but he's got more faith in the american system than i do. he thinks bush cares what people think. ;D

 

[caroline]

Caroline is an example of a good christian, but the unfortunate truth is way too many christians and westerners are completely silent and ignore the persecution of Muslims by their governments. This needs to change if there is ever to be reconciliation between Muslims and Christians. More Christians need to start speaking out against their genocidal government otherwise how can Muslims be blamed if they perceive christians as their enemy when they have no reason not to perceive this. More Christians need to raise their voice and let Muslims know that a lot of them dont agree and are against the Western governments exploitation and genocide of Muslims.

I totally agree with you! One big problem is that most Christians simply do not KNOW that their so-called "christian" leaders are war criminals and genocidal power mongers. And the ones that are faced with the facts immediately turn their backs in denial before they ever take the time to consider the factual evidence before them. Look at the comments about Noam Chomsky who was called "THE most important intellectual alive today" by the New York Times and who is one of the most often quoted academics in the world. And yet his work is dismissed so glibly. There are many very good solid academic works explaining neo-colonialism, US Imperialism and the mass atrocities that follow. But not many people want to read that kind of thing. They don't want to believe it is true and they don't have time or the inclination to wade through those kinds of texts. It's not easy reading and most people would rather turn on TV and listen to the propagandist drivel masquerading as news.

The other problem is that the neo-conservatives in the US have deceives the majority of Christians into believing that they are operating from Christian morals and with Christian motives. The deceit has been so effective that most Christians have forgotten what the message of Jesus was about. So much so that they are able to vote for warmongers and megalomaniacs and believe in their heart that they are doing the Christian thing. It is mind boggling how deceived they've been.

The worst example of this is the Christian Zionist movement. These people who are taken in by this group have forgotten everything about the message of Jesus. They believe they are doing the right thing. They see the Zionists as victims and as God's chosen people (even though the Bible clearly states that God no longer recongnizes that covenant because the people didn't honor it).

There is so much deceit in the US. You don't get the truth on the news or in the papers. It is very very VERY difficult to find out the truth about what our government is doing in the world because it is hidden from us.

Did you know that our president has not attended a single funeral of a fallen American soldier because he doesn't want the funerals in the news? Did you know that he has forbidden any images of American "grief" from the war to be shown and that one reporter got fired for posting pictures of American caskets? We are isolated from the truth. It is very hard to find. Most Americans are so busy working extra hours to pay the bills that they simply don't have time to go to college and take a class or to read the kinds of books they'd need to read to pull themselves out of the fog. They don't have time for the internet research or any of the things that would help them see the truth.

Many Americans simply don't know what's going on. And those of us who do get berated and criticized at every turn. You saw the post above. Any time an American speaks out against our government's actions or against Zionism we get attacked. As I said, people here end up in jail for protesting. And once you've been arrested in this country it's very difficult to find employment. Right now our constitution has been changed so much that any person can be arrested at any time with absolutely NO evidence against them and NO right to legal defense. They can hold you indefinitely without a trial.

And that's the truth.

 

[Talha777]

Thank you very much Caroline for speaking out and letting Muslims know that not all westerners and christians are like wilberbum. I like Noam Chomsky very much as well. You see many Muslims such as myself are living in the West. We see that virtually everyone here is living in peace and dont have to contend with Muslims bombing them and have to live in fear of Muslim soldiers breaking into their house, throwing them into a secret prison with no assurance of justice. You see the problem with many Christians in the West they have no empathy. But I notice many good Christians, like Caroline, have left their comfort zone to see the reality of how Muslims and many in the third world have to live in constant fear. The true terrorist is American government because the only people who are being terrorized are America's victims - the Muslims. May Allah guide you Caroline and may He make more people like you. Ameen.

 

[Jayda]

*edit* I see you caught that.

 

[north_malaysian]

UK Jews applaud Muslim decision over Holocaust Day

The MCB leadership had said that Britons should also remember massacres and genocides in Africa and in the Balkans.

Tuesday, December 11, 2007
By Trevor Grundy

Leaders of Britain's 250 000 strong Jewish community have welcomed a decision by the Muslim Council of Britain, the country's largest Islamic organization, to end its boycott of Holocaust Day held on 27 January every year.

The MCB on 1 December voted to halt its protest after those supporting the vote had said their opposition to attending the commemoration of Holocaust Day had left their organization open to accusations of not being sensitive to Jewish suffering.

The British-based Three Faiths Forum, with a leadership made up of Muslims, Jews and Christians, said the decision by Britain's Muslim council was made after the forum had urged the council to end the boycott of Holocaust Memorial Day.

"The Three Faiths Forum said it had always considered that the MCB boycott was misconceived," said the forum in a statement on 3 December.

Edward Kessler, executive director of the Centre for the Study of Jewish-Muslim Relations in Cambridge told Ecumenical News International, "The Jewish community welcomes this change which brings the Muslim community more in line with the rest of the United Kingdom."

There are about 1.6 million Muslims living in Britain and until the decision was made by the Muslim council, British Islamic community representatives were seen to have distanced themselves from ceremonies marking the mass murder of about six million Jews during the Second World War. Some asserted that the title of the commemoration should be Genocide Memorial Day, thus allowing for the public to remember genocides other than the one organized by German dictator Adolf Hitler and his Nazi party.

The MCB leadership had said that Britons should also remember massacres and genocides in Africa and in the Balkans.

"That's one of the points of Holocaust Day," said Kessler. "We do remember them all."

Representatives of the MCB, an umbrella organization with more than 500 member groups, are expected to attend the main Holocaust commemoration, which will take place in Liverpool, northwest England on 27 January.

But there were reports that the vote could persuade some groups to leave the Muslim council.

A report in The Times newspaper in London said that Daud Abdullah, MCB deputy secretary-general was believed to have voted to continue the boycott of Holocaust Day. The council's former secretary general, Sir Iqbal Sacranie, however, voted to end it.

Source: ENI www.eni.ch

taken from: http://www.speroforum.com/site/arti...ws+applaud+Muslim+decision+over+Holocaust+Day

 

[S_87]

i actually didnt knwow there was a muslim boycott on this. no i will not start remembering them, if anything i will remember those who are STILL suffering today. and while people remember the dead, these people are living hell on earth.

 

[Keltoi]

Israel isn't going anywhere...outside of divine miracle. However, some still hold on to the fantasy that Israel can be "defeated" into non-existence. As long as this fantasy remains, there will be many on both sides who will not pursue a peace deal.

I doubt the knowledge that a Muslim group once boycotted Holocaust Memorial Day is going to make much difference either.

 

[Muezzin]

35 off-topic posts deleted. Some are kind of blurring the line between off- and on-topic, so some posts remain which others might think need deleting, so I apologise for any perceived discrepancies.

Thank you to those who have stayed on topic.

 

[glo]

i actually didnt knwow there was a muslim boycott on this. no i will not start remembering them, if anything i will remember those who are STILL suffering today. and while people remember the dead, these people are living hell on earth.

But by remembering the past, do we not have an opportunity to try to not make the same mistakes in the future?

As a German born some 20 years after the end of WWII, the teaching that an atrocity like the Nazi regime must never be allowed to happen again, is very deeply ingrained.
We remember that by not forgetting the past and then looking to the present and the future ...