Locals turn against Taliban in eastern Afghanistan

[Insaanah]

I'd like to pose a question here.

Let's say we have two groups of Muslims. Each views the other as an oppressor in some way. Both have a common enemy, who has invaded their land, bombed their land from above and from within the ground, and is also gaining control of natural resources etc. Should a group of Muslims sit and criticise the other and quantify the other's shortcomings, "mistakes, sins and evils", highlight the "bad-apples", before "lifting a finger" at the enemy (while the enemy does what it likes to their land and people in the meantime) OR, should that group, based on their common bond of faith, unite with the other against the common enemy and leave the fault-picking (which actually should be advising) til afterwards? Which takes precedence in this situation?

P.S. You cannot give "we all need to rectify ourselves first and correct whats in our hearts and leave our sins to enable us to unite in that manner" as an answer because remember, the enemy is already invading, and you don't have time for that (though that's not to say that shouldn't be done).

 

[جوري]

Making demands on others without examining directly their position or vilifying them through endless backbiting, questionable comments and articles (during war time when all kinds of warfare is allowed apparently) whilst exempting the self or feeling great injury when others point out things obvious to the naked eye while denying others that same right to me is a grievous thing indeed...

like the Egyptian adage that speaks of those who murder an individual and then walk in his funeral shedding alligator tears.
Consider that this is out in the open and everyone has a chance to defend themselves.. no such courtesy is granted those great awful talibs or that bogeyman O or that other bogeyman ... no they don't even get a trial they're guilty because the cretins said so.
If you can't help then at least avoid others the harm your lips and fingers spew!

 

[GuestFellow]

Salaam,

We should try to remain as objective as possible. What we need is facts, which is hard to obtain. However, we can speculate. I'm not going to dismiss the article as full of lies and fabrications. It does contain an element of truth.

I remember a Taliban spokesperson said that women were not permitted to go to schools because it was dangerous. Afghanistan is dangerous due to the conflicts. It was invaded by Soviet Russia and now by USA. So there was a lot of instability. It was common for girls to get kidnapped by warlords, so girls were encouraged to stay at home. I think this applied to young boys as well. This is why it was prohibited to send girls to schools or something along those lines.

Not sure if the above is true because it is based on watching a video about a Taliban spokesperson. I can't seem to find the video but I'll try to surf the net for it.

 

[Roasted Cashew]

Each views the other as an oppressor in some way.

I view some Taliban members as transgressors. I don't see how I can be perceived as oppressive by the these transgressors in return. Anyway, let's go ahead..

Should a group of Muslims sit and criticise the other and quantify the other's shortcomings, "mistakes, sins and evils", highlight the "bad-apples"

YES!

before "lifting a finger" at the enemy

I also condemn the atrocities committed by the enemy. What I say is we need to condemn our own just as passionately.

OR, should that group, based on their common bond of faith, unite with the other against the common enemy

You do not know - how much relieve and pleasure I get when I hear the demise of an invading soldier. I am all for pure and rightful resistant of the enemy.

and leave the fault-picking (which actually should be advising) til afterwards

That would be too late. This should go side by side. Societies which do not hold their leaders and fighters accountable till too late do not usually end up on the right side of history.

 

[GuestFellow]

I'd like to pose a question here.

Let's say we have two groups of Muslims.

Each views the other as an oppressor in some way. Both have a common enemy, who has invaded their land, bombed their land from above and from within the ground, and is also gaining control of natural resources etc. Should a group of Muslims sit and criticise the other and quantify the other's shortcomings, "mistakes, sins and evils", highlight the "bad-apples", before "lifting a finger" at the enemy (while the enemy does what it likes to their land and people in the meantime) OR, should that group, based on their common bond of faith, unite with the other against the common enemy and leave the fault-picking (which actually should be advising) til afterwards? Which takes precedence in this situation?

P.S. You cannot give "we all need to rectify ourselves first and correct whats in our hearts and leave our sins to enable us to unite in that manner" as an answer because remember, the enemy is already invading, and you don't have time for that (though that's not to say that shouldn't be done).

:wa:

If there are two groups of Muslims and each view each other as the oppressor, then this cannot be ignored. There is a reason why both groups view each other as the oppressor. For both groups to unite to fight against a particular enemy will only be a short-term alliance. Through discussion, debate and criticism, we learn to understand why each group views each other as the enemy. Overall, what your advocating is not practicable. Let's assume both groups committed atrocities against each other and no one was held to be accountable. The victims would feel anger and would not unite with a group that participated in these atrocities.

Let's assume both groups unite and destroy the enemy. The conflict between these two groups will continue. Then one group will probably seek outside assistance to beat the other.

As for the Taliban, I do not support nor trust them. I do not trust the invaders, nor any other resistance. I have no idea what is going on. I'm basing my information on secondary sources. Even video footages cannot be trusted, due to editing. With the Taliban in particular, this group accepted military and financial support from the USA, a country that formed an alliance between Zionist Christians and Zionist Jews.

I don't believe the Taliban are evil. I do not absorb the rubbish that is presented on the mainstream media. However, I do think we need to be careful who we are supporting.

I'm truly concerned. Many Muslims are quick to support anyone that is against America from my experience. This includes regimes in China, Russia and political figures like Gadaffi and Saddam.

 

[Muhammad]

:wa:

They are not the pharaoh nor are we Moses ..

Of course, but in their story are many lessons for all of us.

I'd suggest you close the thread indeed as backbiting (amongst other endless heinous things) against your brothers who are fighting for their freedom and the freedom of their country outweighs in my humble opinion the intention of one forumer and his band of like minded individuals.

My point is only that there are better ways to argue a case, regardless of who is right and wrong. If someone is backbiting, we have to correct that in a proper manner. It doesn't make sense that we tell someone to stop insulting other Muslims, by insulting that person ourselves! It is one thing to correct a mistake, but another to allow anger to get the better of us.

 

[جوري]

Ok, fair enough.. let's paint out western interests in the regions and all the regions as they see them an extension of their imperialists grip on the world which is becoming polarized between what they perceive to be them (good) and china (evil) we're merely play things in the middle as they don't see a real threat past an ideological one which they perceive to have under control and it is apparent that, it is indeed the case given our sheer number and the state we're currently in!

Let's start out with Vietnam since there were no bearded hideous oppressive men to beat on the women for our good friends to act all heroic & save the day, no OBL's no 911 no so-called 'weapons of mass destruction'
France was losing in the region, they were fast becoming POW. America afraid of course the region would go to China over western imperialism they move in to inherit France so to speak-- they used herbicides and defoliants, agent orange they spray entire rivers killing plants, wildlife, fish etc. Killing how many people..well collateral damage after all and as always & sweep it under the rug. This is a mere example of numerous similar acts, just look it in every country there's always something which they're behind like the bay of pigs. People their people specifically if they're not touched by the suffering then there is no harm, the others from their view are all savages!

To shed light on our part in their game--Iraq the second place in the region after KSA producing oil, KSA is already in their pockets, Afghanistan, well Afghanistan of course has that large gas pipeline running throughout. Control both things, China their largest threat will have to get their resources either through the U.S directly and the U.S can of course ration what they get or China can get it through Iran and there's not much room there for China to be a contender.
All the people vilified, killed in the process again it is a privilege and anything to perpetuate their agenda is all acceptable forms of warfare. They can always throw in a black guy like Collin Powell to speak of the WMD and why would he be a sellout to those white imperialists and they play that game of unity and religion is evil well. Just have a look at our resident trolls be they Atheists or Christians.. one against 'tribalism and the other of let's all join hands and clap while injecting venom every which way'

The U.S uses a shuttle to fly over Iran, Syria etc to check out the region all our data is in their pockets-- they also use use satellites to even checkout the wheat production in the region and they play that game of wheat really well.. we're far from being at par with them and it is because we've morons arguing over trifles.

During the days of the prophet even though they were less in numbers but at least at par equipment wise, they had roman type weaponry from the gulf of Aqba (ilaf) modern day Jordan as it was under Roman rule the equivalent of modern day tanks on wheels and leathered and that was used in the Thaqif siege and of course they had faith.. when they had someone they suspected of fitnah they adhered to the law of Allah swt:

[][][183513673] Al-Hujurat (The Dwellings)[49:6] [RECITE] [top] [next match] ​ Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo in jaakum fasiqun binabain fatabayyanoo an tuseeboo qawman bijahalatin fatusbihoo AAala ma faAAaltum nadimeena​ 49:6 O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done. ​

They worked as one unit.. They didn't take the news of their affairs from their enemy...
So think long and hard before you bring idiotic news on here nit picking with your two kaffir buddies on the ills of Muslims. What are you doing to help, for even if they are all the crap you suggest what are you doing to make it better? *****ing to us about it?

 

[Abz2000]

Let's assume both groups committed atrocities against each other and no one was held to be accountable. The victims would feel anger and would not unite with a group that participated in these atrocities.

i respectfully disagree brother,
this was how the Islamic state was born
the aws and the khazraj were massacring each other to the extent that all their leaders had been killed,
after wearing out and realizing that they were being weakened (and while the jews were benefiting from their disaster by being able to lend on usury),
they decided to bring the Prophet pbuh to Madinah and one of the main reasons were putting aside past disputes and uniting.

this unity was fragile for a long time even after the arrival of the Prophet pbuh in Madinah, and they would reach for their swords in any dispute, and compete to outdo each other in pleasing the Prophet pbuh.
but they were men, battle hardened and wisened men, men who understood putting aside minor differences for the cause of unity.

among their first pronouncements were, this is the man whom the jews spoke of, it may be that Allah will unite us through him.


The city of Yathrib, now known as Madinah (meaning ‘The City’), was inhabited at the time of the Prophet by two major Arab tribes, the Aws and the Khazraj.

These two tribes had a long history of bloody wars which sapped their strength. The last of these battles, named Buath, took place about two years before the events we are now relating.
....
Every time the Arabs of Madinah clashed with the Jews, the latter would say: "It will not be long before a new messenger shall be sent by God. We shall follow him and will kill you all in the same way as the peoples of Ad and Iram were killed." The six Khazrajis did not hesitate to accept what the Prophet said. They were Asad ibn Zurarah, Awf ibn al-Harith, Rafi ibn Malik, Qutbah ibn Amir ibn Hadidah, Uqbah ibn Amir ibn Zayd and Jabir ibn Abdullah ibn Riab.

They declared their belief in God and the message of Muhammad. They also said to the Prophet:

"We have left our people in an unprecedented state of mutual hostility.
May God make you the cause of their unity.
We shall call on them to follow you and explain to them your religion which we have accepted.
Should God unite them in following you, you shall enjoy with them a position of the highest prestige."

verses were revealed regarding this difference.
O ye who believe! Fear Allah as He should be feared, and die not except in a state of Islam.
And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided.
Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: They are the ones to attain felicity.
Quran 3:102-104

 

[Abz2000]

when some of the companions made the mistake of fighting in the sacred month, the pagans of Arabia milked it to the max,
and the munafiqeen in Madinah were using it to sow dissent amongst the Muslims, and the Prophet pbuh refused to take any of the prisoners or booty, to the extent that the companions who took part in the expedition were afraid, we went out in the way of Allah, and now Allah is dipleased with us.

a while later the verses were revealed:

They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month.
Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence);
but graver is it in the sight of God to prevent access to the path of God,
to deny Him,
to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque,
and drive out its members."
Tumult and oppression are worse than fighting.
Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can.
And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief,
their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter;
they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.
Quran 2:222

and another verse:

Those who believed and those who suffered exile and fought (and strove and struggled) in the path of Allah,
- they have the hope of the Mercy of Allah: And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Quran 2:218

the Prophet pbuh after that announced to them the good news, and even took a share of the spoils of war.

here is a detailed exposition of what happened and how the kuffar and munafiqeen tried to use it, and how Allah responded.

it shows how munafiqeen and kuffar commit henious crimes, then nit-pick at insignificant events in order to weaken the believers.

and in the case of this thread which is from a fasiq source, it's not even worth the amount of input and effort we've gone to.

i've forwarded the player to the exact detailed event with the explanation of how believers are advised, but if it doesn't work in the embedded url, just scroll to 25mins :15 seconds, or hit the link below it.

[video=youtube;YXUZNZ0ajJU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YXUZNZ0ajJU#t=15 15s[/video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YXUZNZ0ajJU#t=1515s

btw, regarding the feigned horror - iraq, this is from a book i picked up a few years back,
it's called: iraq - the rise of the resistance:
Over the coming weeks thousands of Iraqis, from teachers to former soldiers, port workers and public servants, marched for jobs, the reopening of ministries and the payment of salaries. On 28 April a small crowd gathered near a school in Fallujah housing US troops. Fallujah did not witness the looting and chaos that gripped many parts of the country in the wake of the invasion. Tribal sheikhs and religious leaders ensured security in the city. The crowd insisted the US troops were not needed and demanded that soldiers handed the school back to the city authorities and left town. The troops opened fire, killing 13. The killings in Fallujah would propel the Sunni city into the heart of a new national movement......
....Tragic things were already happening as Franks was meeting his commanders: looting, burning of the major administration centres, the stripping of Iraq’s already threadbare infrastructure. Hospitals, schools and universities were emptied and set ablaze. For most Iraqis, the coalition troops brought with them chaos and anarchy.

 

[GuestFellow]

i respectfully disagree brother,
this was how the Islamic state was born
the aws and the khazraj were massacring each other to the extent that all their leaders had been killed,
after wearing out and realizing that they were being weakened (and while the jews were benefiting from their disaster by being able to lend on usury),
they decided to bring the Prophet pbuh to Madinah and one of the main reasons were putting aside past disputes and uniting.

this unity was fragile for a long time even after the arrival of the Prophet pbuh in Madinah, and they would reach for their swords in any dispute, and compete to outdo each other in pleasing the Prophet pbuh.
but they were men, battle hardened and wisened men, men who understood putting aside minor differences for the cause of unity.

among their first pronouncements were, this is the man whom the jews spoke of, it may be that Allah will unite us through him.


The city of Yathrib, now known as Madinah (meaning ‘The City’), was inhabited at the time of the Prophet by two major Arab tribes, the Aws and the Khazraj.

These two tribes had a long history of bloody wars which sapped their strength. The last of these battles, named Buath, took place about two years before the events we are now relating.

A large Jewish community had lived in Madinah for well over a century. All history books agree that the Jews were instrumental in keeping the two Arab tribes, the Aws and the Khazraj, at each other's throats. Historians also relate that the Jews came to Madinah because their sacred books mention it as the place where the last messenger from God was to establish his state.

Like the rest of the Arabs, the Aws and the Khazraj were idolaters. In common with all Arabs they revered the Kabah and offered pilgrimage. In a pilgrimage season after the Prophet had adopted his strategy of speaking to the various Arab tribes, seeking their protection in his fulfillment of his mission, a group of six men from the Khazraj tribe were offering the pilgrimage.

The Prophet met them at a place called Aqabah, at Mina, where pilgrims encamp for three days. When they identified themselves to the Prophet and he ascertained that they were the neighbors of the Jews, he sought to explain his message to them. They were willing to listen to what he had to say.

The Prophet outlined to them the principles of his message and read them a passage from the Quran. He called on them to believe in God as the only deity to be worshipped. Some of them said to the others: "You may be sure that he is the Prophet with whom the Jews keep threatening you. Let them not be the first to follow him."

That apparently touched a sensitive nerve with them. The Arabs of Madinah used to respect the Jewish religion. They recognized that their own pagan beliefs stood no comparison with the monotheistic religion of the Jews, who professed to have better knowledge of God and man.

Every time the Arabs of Madinah clashed with the Jews, the latter would say: "It will not be long before a new messenger shall be sent by God. We shall follow him and will kill you all in the same way as the peoples of Ad and Iram were killed." The six Khazrajis did not hesitate to accept what the Prophet said. They were Asad ibn Zurarah, Awf ibn al-Harith, Rafi ibn Malik, Qutbah ibn Amir ibn Hadidah, Uqbah ibn Amir ibn Zayd and Jabir ibn Abdullah ibn Riab.

They declared their belief in God and the message of Muhammad. They also said to the Prophet:

"We have left our people in an unprecedented state of mutual hostility.
May God make you the cause of their unity.
We shall call on them to follow you and explain to them your religion which we have accepted.
Should God unite them in following you, you shall enjoy with them a position of the highest prestige."

Salaam,

I'll make myself clear. It is not impossible for groups that opposed each other to unite. However, it is possible that these alliances may work without addressing fundamental issues. To completely ignore atrocities and sweep them under the carpet is not wise. Accountability is extremely important. Victims do desire justice and if this is ignored, some will retaliate.

I believe it is acceptable to criticise Muslim groups that commit acts that are against Islam.

 

[جوري]

Salaam,

I'll make myself clear. It is not impossible for groups that opposed each other to unite. However, it is possible that these alliances may work without addressing fundamental issues. To completely ignore atrocities and sweep them under the carpet is not wise. Accountability is extremely important. Victims do desire justice and if this is ignored, some will retaliate.

I believe it is acceptable to criticise Muslim groups that commit acts that are against Islam.

That is to say there's accuracy at all in said acts and then remains the question of what led to the 'unquestionable acts' to be committed. They besiege a village and enable its people only one means of livelihood (say fishing) then act so surprised when the villagers come home with fish?..
Yes that's how absurd this whole thing is.

 

[Roasted Cashew]

only one means of livelihood

Killing innocent people, destroying infrastructure with no regards to human presence there, abducting civilians and aid workers and subsequently beheading them, etc in order to pressurize the enemy is not a livelihood true Muslims should subscribe to.

Added:

Target only the invading military and the accompanying mercenaries. Not everyone who looks western. Not your own population which listens to music or doesn't want to keep a beard. Maybe they are on the wrong. But so were so many Sahabas until Allah guided them. There is no punishment in this world prescribed in the Qur'an for those who listen to music or don't want to keep a beard. Stop threatening them or marking them as westernized and blowing them up too.

 

[جوري]

Killing innocent people, destroying infrastructure with no regards to human presence there, abducting civilians and aid workers and subsequently beheading them, etc in order to pressurize the enemy is not a livelihood true Muslims should subscribe to.

Added:

Target only the invading military and the accompanying mercenaries. Not everyone who looks western. Not your own population which listens to music or doesn't want to keep a beard. Maybe they are on the wrong. But so were so many Sahabas until Allah guided them. There is no punishment in this world prescribed in the Qur'an for those who listen to music or don't want to keep a beard. Stop threatening them or marking them as westernized and blowing them up too.

This is empty rhetoric concocted by westerners, perpetuated by them endorsed by them on all level and bought by the simple minded who view themselves as 'civilized modernists'

Ok, fair enough.. let's paint out western interests in the regions and all the regions as they see them an extension of their imperialists grip on the world which is becoming polarized between what they perceive to be them (good) and china (evil) we're merely play things in the middle as they don't see a real threat past an ideological one which they perceive to have under control and it is apparent that, it is indeed the case given our sheer number and the state we're currently in!

Let's start out with Vietnam since there were no bearded hideous oppressive men to beat on the women for our good friends to act all heroic & save the day, no OBL's no 911 no so-called 'weapons of mass destruction'
France was losing in the region, they were fast becoming POW. America afraid of course the region would go to China over western imperialism they move in to inherit France so to speak-- they used herbicides and defoliants, agent orange they spray entire rivers killing plants, wildlife, fish etc. Killing how many people..well collateral damage after all and as always & sweep it under the rug. This is a mere example of numerous similar acts, just look it in every country there's always something which they're behind like the bay of pigs. People their people specifically if they're not touched by the suffering then there is no harm, the others from their view are all savages!

To shed light on our part in their game--Iraq the second place in the region after KSA producing oil, KSA is already in their pockets, Afghanistan, well Afghanistan of course has that large gas pipeline running throughout. Control both things, China their largest threat will have to get their resources either through the U.S directly and the U.S can of course ration what they get or China can get it through Iran and there's not much room there for China to be a contender.
All the people vilified, killed in the process again it is a privilege and anything to perpetuate their agenda is all acceptable forms of warfare. They can always throw in a black guy like Collin Powell to speak of the WMD and why would he be a sellout to those white imperialists and they play that game of unity and religion is evil well. Just have a look at our resident trolls be they Atheists or Christians.. one against 'tribalism and the other of let's all join hands and clap while injecting venom every which way'

The U.S uses a shuttle to fly over Iran, Syria etc to check out the region all our data is in their pockets-- they also use use satellites to even checkout the wheat production in the region and they play that game of wheat really well.. we're far from being at par with them and it is because we've morons arguing over trifles.

During the days of the prophet even though they were less in numbers but at least at par equipment wise, they had roman type weaponry from the gulf of Aqba (ilaf) modern day Jordan as it was under Roman rule the equivalent of modern day tanks on wheels and leathered and that was used in the Thaqif siege and of course they had faith.. when they had someone they suspected of fitnah they adhered to the law of Allah swt:

[][][183513673]
Al-Hujurat (The Dwellings)[49:6] [RECITE]
[top] [next match]



Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo in jaakum fasiqun binabain fatabayyanoo an tuseeboo qawman bijahalatin fatusbihoo AAala ma faAAaltum nadimeena
49:6 O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.




They worked as one unit.. They didn't take the news of their affairs from their enemy...
So think long and hard before you bring idiotic news on here nit picking with your two kaffir buddies on the ills of Muslims. What are you doing to help, for even if they are all the crap you suggest what are you doing to make it better? *****ing to us about it?

 

[GuestFellow]

That is to say there's accuracy at all in said acts and then remains the question of what led to the 'unquestionable acts' to be committed.

:wa:

Well we are talking about uniting two groups. If both groups committed atrocities against each other, then there will be victims. For example, let's say there are two Muslim groups (A and B) involved in a conflict due to external factors. A group of Muslim soldiers from group A rape a Muslim women in front of her husband and then kill the husband (based on true events). The Muslim women here is the victim. From her perspective, she won't care about what has lead group A to commit this act. She has been raped and requires justice. If this is ignored, then the following will occur:

1. No justice for the victim. The victim will experience anger and sadness. This will reduce the chances of the two groups uniting.
2. No accountability and deterrence. Those that committed the acts will probably commit them again. They won't fear retribution. More of these acts will be committed, thus making it unlikely for the two groups to unite.

Yes, there are other groups which may have played an indirect role in creating an atmosphere where these two groups commit violence towards each other. I'm not saying this is to be ignored either.

 

[جوري]

:wa:

Well we are talking about uniting two groups. If both groups committed atrocities against each other, then there will be victims. For example, let's say there are two Muslim groups (A and B) involved in a conflict due to external factors. A group of Muslim soldiers from group A rape a Muslim women in front of her husband and then kill the husband (based on true events). The Muslim women here is the victim. From her perspective, she won't care about what has lead group A to commit this act. She has been raped and requires justice. If this is ignored, then the following will occur:

1. No justice for the victim. The victim will experience anger and sadness. This will reduce the chances of the two groups uniting.
2. No accountability and deterrence. Those that committed the acts will probably commit them again. They won't fear retribution. More of these acts will be committed, thus making it unlikely for the two groups to unite.

Indeed. I have a problem however with hypotheticals, media propaganda and the ‘militarization’ of media warfare.
Rapes happen all the time, they happen in the west, acid attacks happen all the time they happen in the west. It is a crime on an individual level I don't see what it has t do with Islam? Is it again because the media stringed the word Muslim to the end of the accusation? I have already stated that one sided news doesn't suit me. I don't know what you personally consider accurate? If I were living on some remote resort with my family and no way for me to put out the news of my remote resort and some greedy outsider thinks it is a hotspot and has interest in my remote little island before somebody else gets a grip or before I unite with the little resorts in my area and have a nice economy, nice unity and defend that from their grip so they put out news that we're an incestuous family, my family is destroying the vineyards, my family isn't enabling forced proselytization, then regroup and come in with their forces doing all sorts of heinous things for which somehow nice PR sweeps it under the rug from people's memory, and yet at the end of the day me & my family are the bad guy?
I really can't make it any simpler than that. I have already painted above their interest in the region, their interests in other regions who are made guilty of other sets of crimes that have nothing to do with beards and Allah Akbar. I can't figure out what is so hard to understand here? I can't understand why some surmise based on evidence from the enemy and yet forgo the clear picture as it is without colorful paint.

Hasbona Allah wa'nima Alwakeel is all I can say!

 

[Abz2000]

with regard to looking into and magnifying relatively insignificant faults of Muslims, when the kuffar have done the same and worse, and continue to do so.
i would liken it to spending all your time looking at how a sheep resisted a wolf, and ignoring the fact that the wolf attacked the sheep in the first place,
and is still attacking your sheep.
or asking the raped how they scratched the rapist.
it sounds stupid, and shows the treacherous bias of the one who would spend his time in such frivolities.

 

[Roasted Cashew]

asking the raped how they scratched the rapist.

I am not sure whether you and لميس purposely ignore or really lack sense of comprehension to actually understand what is being said here. We are all with the rape victim. To hell with scratching, we are condoning even the death of the rapist by the victim. What I am trying to say is do not transgress in your fight for justice. In order to kill the rapist, do not kill innocent people or anyone who happens to belong to the same race group as him. Do not abduct and behead those who come from the rapists country to help the likes of you victims just because they are from his country..Do not kill your own people who do not have beards and listen to musics just like the rapist did. That's all. Is that too much for both of you to comprehend?? I also acknowledged that not all victims are like this. Some are pure in their fight. Only a certain faction is. Still, both of you are arguing for no reason whatsoever on totally absurd pretext.

 

[جوري]

I am not sure whether you and لميس purposely ignore or really lack sense of comprehension to actually understand what is being said here. We are all with the rape victim. To hell with scratching, we are condoning even the death of the rapist by the victim. What I am trying to say is do not transgress in your fight for justice. In order to kill the rapist, do not kill innocent people or anyone who happens to belong to the same race group as him. Do not abduct and behead those who come from the rapists country to help the likes of you victims just because they are from his country..Do not kill your own people who do not have beards and listen to musics just like the rapist did. That's all. Is that too much for both of you to comprehend?? I also acknowledged that not all victims are like this. Some are pure in their fight. Only a certain faction is. Still, both of you are arguing for no reason whatsoever on totally absurd pretext.

In fact the first couple of lines are an adequate assessment of yourself. And whenever you feel you're losing ground, you come back and hammer in useless points of more of the same to save face or I don't know your purpose cause discord sow the seeds of hate & doubt whilst ingratiating yourself to whomever you can. Whatever it is you're doing here, it isn't working. Lastly I don't know how many times we must repeat that what you point out is worthless, get us the news from the local Taliban tribune from their mouth and interviews with their alleged victims like the girl with the 'experience' whose experience apparently fizzles when she's asked to back it up with other than lip service. That's is if you want what you write to have some semblance of credence!
I don't need third party information telling me how it is.
And again start by reforming yourself I don't see you helping and you're not quizzical of purpose so what the hell are you doing exactly? Every other day you bring news from the mouths of Zionists? Yes we're aware of what they're putting out there, congratulations being their mouthpiece on the board!

 

[Insaanah]

btw, regarding the feigned horror - iraq, this is from a book i picked up a few years back,
it's called: iraq - the rise of the resistance:
Over the coming weeks thousands of Iraqis, from teachers to former soldiers, port workers and public servants, marched for jobs, the reopening of ministries and the payment of salaries. On 28 April a small crowd gathered near a school in Fallujah housing US troops. Fallujah did not witness the looting and chaos that gripped many parts of the country in the wake of the invasion. Tribal sheikhs and religious leaders ensured security in the city. The crowd insisted the US troops were not needed and demanded that soldiers handed the school back to the city authorities and left town. The troops opened fire, killing 13. The killings in Fallujah would propel the Sunni city into the heart of a new national movement......
....Tragic things were already happening as Franks was meeting his commanders: looting, burning of the major administration centres, the stripping of Iraq’s already threadbare infrastructure. Hospitals, schools and universities were emptied and set ablaze. For most Iraqis, the coalition troops brought with them chaos and anarchy.

This reminded me of this book written by a journalist, about the invasion and occupation (or "liberation" as some would have you believe) of Iraq. It's very aptly called, "Nobody told us we were defeated".

What makes Rory McCarthy's one of a rare breed is that it catches the voices of the ordinary people of Iraq, the people George W Bush and Tony Blair "liberated" and who have since seen their society disintegrate

A man who suffered under Saddam:

How does such a man react when he sees Saddam being tried? "I could not bear it when I saw him in such a miserable condition," says Hassan. "He should not be humiliated. After all, he was our president. He was our father."

It is people like Hassan who so confuse the neo-cons. "Why can't they be grateful?" is the plaintive cry. What the dwindling number of apologists for the war fail to grasp is that, while many Iraqis may have hated Saddam, they also loathe the occupation.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...we-were-defeated-by-rory-mccarthy-415016.html

It is very rare for the truth to come out, the truth that won't suit the goverment's agenda, but it is out there, you have to actively look for it, and it's generally not found in the mainstream mass media, which is the government brainwashing tool, but among rare independent thinkers who find an outlet for the real voices of the people of the country.

 

[GuestFellow]

Indeed. I have a problem however with hypotheticals, media propaganda and the ‘militarization’ of media warfare.

Salaam,

This has taken place for many years. There was propaganda and militarization of the media during world war 2. In fact, there is a documentary which explores how the Pentagon worked with Hollywood to create movies to glorify America's wars.

Rapes happen all the time, they happen in the west, acid attacks happen all the time they happen in the west.

Agreed.

It is a crime on an individual level I don't see what it has t do with Islam?

Nothing.

Is it again because the media stringed the word Muslim to the end of the accusation?

Yes. However, some Muslims make it worse. I have met Muslims that blame women for being raped. So these Muslims are fuel for the mainstream media. Speaking from personal experience...

I don't know what you personally consider accurate?

What's true and what is not true. However, this is difficult. Speculation sometimes is required to actually find out what is true. People should not be afraid to admit that they are wrong. I have been wrong several times.

If I were living on some remote resort with my family and no way for me to put out the news of my remote resort and some greedy outsider thinks it is a hotspot and has interest in my remote little island before somebody else gets a grip or before I unite with the little resorts in my area and have a nice economy, nice unity and defend that from their grip so they put out news that we're an incestuous family, my family is destroying the vineyards, my family isn't enabling forced proselytization, then regroup and come in with their forces doing all sorts of heinous things for which somehow nice PR sweeps it under the rug from people's memory, and yet at the end of the day me & my family are the bad guy?

Bad things happen to people all the time. However, victims should not use this as an excuse to commit further atrocities. People should be allowed to defend themselves in a reasonable manner. Afghans have every right to defend themselves from the invaders. However, they must do so in accordance with Islamic teachings.



[QUOTE I can't figure out what is so hard to understand here?
[/QUOTE]

What gave you that impression?