love and hell in christianity

[Eric H]

Breetings and peace be with you cheese,

A neighbour of mine brought up her son, she taught him the difference between right and wrong and she loved her son. About a year ago her son got involved with drugs and wounded another man with a knife; he is now in prison.

Her son is now being punished for his wrong doings, but should the mother forgive him and continue to love her son or should she stop loving her son. She has been facing depression because her son has done wrong, but she also feels for the victim.

I believe we all place a huge burden on God in the way we treat each other and sin against each other and God. But for God to be loving and forgiving as well, how does he decide what to do? Can God be far greater than the loving mother who continues to love her son after his transgressions?

A valid question atheists bring up is why should a loving God punish someone with eternal ****ation for sins committed in a finite time of less than a hundred years?

Another question that has come up is, I didn’t ask to be born why should I be sent to hell for not following the rules?

I feel that it is through God’s mercy and the sacrifice of Jesus that gives us hope, I do not believe that any of us could achieve salvation through our own efforts.

In the spirit of searching

Eric

 

[Malaikah]

I believe we all place a huge burden on God in the way we treat each other and sin against each other and God.

Burden?:uuh: How can an insignificant, powerless human burden God?

 

[Keltoi]

Burden?:uuh: How can an insignificant, powerless human burden God?

To call human beings "insignificant" is to call one of God's creations "insignificant".

 

[ckerofilm]

well compared to God they are

 

[Keltoi]

well compared to God they are[/QUOTE

That isn't the issue. The point is whether human beings are so "insignificant" that God feels no burden when his creations are disobedient to his word. If that was the case there would be no need to have prophets or the Word of God. Obviously we are significant enough to warrant God's attention.

 

[Allah-creation]

i have a question to chrictians. If god doesnt want his creation to end up in hell why did he created them to sin?

 

[duskiness]

If god doesnt want his creation to end up in hell why did he created them to sin?

He created them free to choose . There is no good without freedom. And as a christians we hold that people lean more towards sin. Sad but (for us) true
Btw: could you give your answer to the same question?

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Same as u, free will. Every child is born in the state of submission(i.e. Muslim) and state of purity. God gave us His signs(i.e. the Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet(pbuh)) and to choose right from wrong. Our job is to follow His commands. If not, then we pay the consequences for whatever wrong we do, unless we repent of course. So to put it simply. This world, our life, is a test for us. Our every action will be judged.

 

[Umar001]

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah
Peace be upon yall

I think the root of the question, from Sis. Cheese stems for the Misconception that G-d loves everyone unconditionally, which is something that alot of people, I have to say, mainly Christians, though I have now seen some Muslims have the same thought, tend to proclaim.

Then the question arises in the minds of many, if this Unconditionally loving G-d loves us so much, why are we going to go hell? Why he not just bail us out?

The Christian response, that I have heard, is:

For the wages of sin is death, thus if we sin and do not embrace forgiveness, which can only come through the Lamb of G-d, then we are condemed by that sin, thus although G-d may love us, he also has to be Just and so hell is the destination.

I personally have alot of questions to such an answer, which to me does not seem scripture proof. But that's an answer I have heard alot, Sis. Cheese.

Hope that's helped in any way.

 

[snakelegs]

Assalamu Alaikum
Just as in Islam (except we're more justified, everyone gets a taste of hellfire) if you believe in anyone other than Allah, you are placed in hell-fire,

i thought that this is only if you had been made aware of islam and refused to embrace it and that if you never knew about islam, you do not go to hell if you have lived a just life?

but as long as you claim yourself Muslim and believe in the shahada, you will end up in Paradise.

is this true? no matter how much evil you have done in your life? can anyone confirm this? it's the first time i've read this. hope someone will clear this up....
thanks.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Well if u do evil acts and do not repent or refrain from ever doing it again, you will go to hell. But, as we believe, it's only temporary for a Muslim. He/she will pay due time for his/her punishment and then go to heaven because the person still declared himself/herself as a Muslim and didn't leave the fold of Islam. I think that's correct.

 

[snakelegs]

Well if u do evil acts and do not repent or refrain from ever doing it again, you will go to hell. But, as we believe, it's only temporary for a Muslim. He/she will pay due time for his/her punishment and then go to heaven because the person still declared himself/herself as a Muslim and didn't leave the fold of Islam. I think that's correct.

thanks for your reply.
so all muslims will eventually end up in heaven?
i've learned here that christians believe that no matter how moral and just you have been in your life, if you are not a christian, you go to hell.
would you say islam has the same position on this?
to christians - if you are a christian but lead a sinful life, will you still go to heaven, even if you do not repent?

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace to you snakelegs,

I feel that heaven and hell is a mystery to us all, if you ask a hundred Christians there will be many perceptions, ask a hundred Muslims and there will probably be as many more perceptions again. The same God created us all, if we have a faith in God we can only try and do our best and pray that God is merciful to us all.

Maybe try and search for a purpose for the creation of the universe and life….

Before the creation of the universe began does it sound plausible that God would say; I will create life and only grant salvation to those who will call themselves Christian?

In a way it sounds like God might need a greater purpose to create the universe. If God is truly just, loving, merciful and forgiving it sounds as if he might be searching for something greater than saving one faith group.

In the spirit of searching

Eric

 

[Malaikah]

Hi snakelegs

so all muslims will eventually end up in heaven?

Yes that is correct, there are many who will be punished first in hell, for as long as god believes they deserve (according to the magnitude of their sins), but eventually, they will enter paradise.

(note that it is not enough for a person to call himself a muslim- the minimum for a person to be considered a muslim is prayer)

i've learned here that christians believe that no matter how moral and just you have been in your life, if you are not a christian, you go to hell.

The same applies in Islam, only muslims will enter paradise.

This is the islamic point of view- this is what God told us- no philosphy needed, no need to look for a deeper meaning... and it would be foolish to believe (as a muslim) otherwise because that would be like thinking that God is lying to us.

 

[snakelegs]

Greetings and peace to you snakelegs,

I feel that heaven and hell is a mystery to us all, if you ask a hundred Christians there will be many perceptions, ask a hundred Muslims and there will probably be as many more perceptions again. The same God created us all, if we have a faith in God we can only try and do our best and pray that God is merciful to us all.

Maybe try and search for a purpose for the creation of the universe and life….

Before the creation of the universe began does it sound plausible that God would say; I will create life and only grant salvation to those who will call themselves Christian?

In a way it sounds like God might need a greater purpose to create the universe. If God is truly just, loving, merciful and forgiving it sounds as if he might be searching for something greater than saving one faith group.

In the spirit of searching

Eric

thanks for your reply.
personally, i think there is much that is unknowable and i do not believe in heaven or hell. but what you wrote makes sense - i also can not conceive of god favouring one religion over another, but i know that most christians and muslims would disagree.

 

[snakelegs]

Hi snakelegs



Yes that is correct, there are many who will be punished first in hell, for as long as god believes they deserve (according to the magnitude of their sins), but eventually, they will enter paradise.

(note that it is not enough for a person to call himself a muslim- the minimum for a person to be considered a muslim is prayer)



The same applies in Islam, only muslims will enter paradise.

This is the islamic point of view- this is what God told us- no philosphy needed, no need to look for a deeper meaning... and it would be foolish to believe (as a muslim) otherwise because that would be like thinking that God is lying to us.

so that, in islam - as in christianity - faith is more important than acts/deeds?

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

faith upon deeds counts and how much you obey God.

 

[Malaikah]

i also can not conceive of god favouring one religion over another, but i know that most christians and muslims would disagree.

How can God not favour a certain religion that He Himself revealed? Its not like He went through all the known religions and choose the one that made most sense to Him....:rollseyes :?

so that, in islam - as in christianity - faith is more important than acts/deeds?

Religion is more than what people think it is- its more than just believing in God. Its a way of life. Everything in your life becomes based around this religion, and then you live life in the way God intended life to be lived.

When you choose not to follow the correct path, you are doing more than just not believing in God, you are allowing yourself to live a life stlye that God hates- you will do things that God has, with his wisdom, forbidden.

But when you choose the correct path, you can distance yourself from evil acts and increase in good acts.

You might think that a person can be good person without following the right path, by living a moral life etc... but thats not right. why? because morals have to be defined by somethng.. culture, religion or whatever, so what a non-muslim might see as a moral life style might actually be very moralless from an islamic perspective (which is definied by what God has taught us).

Even for muslims- deeds and acts mean something, you cant be a muslim by just saying that you believe in God and having no actions that are characteristic of a muslim.

 

[snakelegs]

How can God not favour a certain religion that He Himself revealed? Its not like He went through all the known religions and choose the one that made most sense to Him....:rollseyes :?

well, if i believed this, i would not be an agnostic - i would be a muslim, christian or ? this does not mean that i am right and you are wrong - it is just my belief. i believe in god, but not religion. i know this will make no sense to you and that's perfectly ok.

Religion is more than what people think it is- its more than just believing in God. Its a way of life. Everything in your life becomes based around this religion, and then you live life in the way God intended life to be lived.

When you choose not to follow the correct path, you are doing more than just not believing in God, you are allowing yourself to live a life stlye that God hates- you will do things that God has, with his wisdom, forbidden.

But when you choose the correct path, you can distance yourself from evil acts and increase in good acts.

You might think that a person can be good person without following the right path, by living a moral life etc... but thats not right. why? because morals have to be defined by somethng.. culture, religion or whatever, so what a non-muslim might see as a moral life style might actually be very moralless from an islamic perspective (which is definied by what God has taught us).

Even for muslims- deeds and acts mean something, you cant be a muslim by just saying that you believe in God and having no actions that are characteristic of a muslim.

i understand that islam is a complete way of life, (as is judaism btw). but a muslim can be a sinner, and as long as he hasn't practiced shirk or denied islam, he will still go to heaven, after spending some time in hell first. but the same is not true for a non-muslim, regardless of how he lives his life. in this case, it is like christianity, but i think islam places more importance on acts than christianity does.
personally, i believe it is possible to lead a moral life without religion - i realize this won't make any sense to you either. i am not saying this is true - it is just my belief.

 

[Malaikah]

well, if i believed this, i would not be an agnostic - i would be a muslim, christian or ? this does not mean that i am right and you are wrong - it is just my belief. i believe in god, but not religion. i know this will make no sense to you and that's perfectly ok.

no, its makes sense i get where youre coming...

personally, i believe it is possible to lead a moral life without religion - i realize this won't make any sense to you either. i am not saying this is true - it is just my belief.

it makes sense, but its just that we probably have a different understadning of what it means to live a moral life.