Main cause of the failure of Muslims

[ardianto]

Genetics and culture. The northmen may be non muslims but you would be ashonished by their good manners och respect for all living things (adab). Meanwhile in Middle East......:hmm:

It has nothing to do with genetics. But with culture?. ... Hmm ... hmm ... In some places Islam has mixed with culture and it make those Muslims cannot erase some traditions that become barrier for their life progress.

 

[فصيح الياسين]

Dear scimi bro do not qurell w her.... she is my sister and u are my bro. I cant see my bro and sis quarel upon .... say her politely even she not... manners are the backbone my dear... sorry if i said any tense which is meant to hurt u or anyone

 

[Insaanah]

I do think we have to be careful in pinpointing a single x issue to be the main cause of failure of Muslims. At the golden age of the Muslims, the Muslims were drawing pictures with faces etc, not always for necessity, and that was during the golden age when Muslims prospered. This does not make drawing such pictures right, of course.

As far as I know, and please correct me if I am wrong, there is no hadeeth or statement of a scholar that says this, that pictures and photos are the main cause of Muslim problems. Rasoolullah :saws: said, in his farewell sermon, "I have left among you the Book of Allah, and if you hold fast to it, you would never go astray." (Ref http://sunnah.com/muslim/15/159) and in one version, "the book of Allah and sunnah of his prophet :saws: ).

If Muslims have a failure, it is failure to adhere to, and implement, the Qur'an and sunnah, and this was mentioned in the last paragraph of the opening post, which I do agree with. Again, not painting everyone with the same brush, but by and large, Muslim leaders etc. Encompassed within that, would be various different issues, including pictures. From what I understand, there are a number of scholarly opinions on videos, that allow them.

So yes, we should encourage that people don't draw pics etc, but also encourage action on other issues Muslims lack in, but we should of course, put that into practice ourselves first.

Remember, that we are brothers and sisters, and shouldn't perceive others to be far away from the knowledge of the Qur'an and sunnah, but should remind and help each other to adhere to it.

And Allah knows best, and may He forgive me if I said anything wrong.

 

[BeTheChange]

Asalamualykum my good people

We can talk about the problems we have but i personally believe we should be part of the solution and not the problem.

As my username states, BeTheChange - if we know what is wrong in our society let's start with ourselves and become the change that we want to see. In sha Allah. If they is a will there is a way in sha Allah and we are all still breathing and have been given a chance by Allah swa. So let's not procrastinate and start setting goals and changing old bad habits with new good habits in sha Allah.

 

[OmAbdullah]

Other thing what comes to mind when we are talking about pictures (I am sure here have many discussions about them before) is what we are doing with pictures. If we make a picture and worship as it would be a god, is one thing and when we make a picture for other reasons, is it the another thing?

Discussions about pictures before (some of them):

I am sorry to say that I wanted to click on "Reply with Quote" but by mistake I clicked "like". Any post that goes against Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم , I can never like it.

Dear sister,

The duty of a Muslim is to obey Allah and Allah's Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم , therefore, as Muslims we must accept what the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said regarding the pictures. There are three hadeeth about pictures.

One hadeeth says that angels do not enter a house which has pictures or idols.

The 2nd hadeeth says that the pictures makers will be given the severest of punishment. They will be asked to put soul in the picture and they will not be able to do so, as a result of this they will be in the everlasting punishment.

The 3rd hadeeth says that the income that comes by selling pork, alcohol and pictures/idols is haram (unlawful).

Here we can see that the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم didn't say that pictures are prohibited for worshipping only. So we have no right to change the meaning of a hadeeth.

 

[Muhaba]

Hmmm a lot of evil sprouts from photos. Just consider immoral movies, magazines, and websites. These not only spread immorality and other fitna but also wastes people's time, hence keeping them away from other important things like learning deen. How much time is wasted on these. They are also one cause of the disintegration of society.

 

[sister herb]

I am sorry to say that I wanted to click on "Reply with Quote" but by mistake I clicked "like". Any post that goes against Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم , I can never like it.

Dear sister,

The duty of a Muslim is to obey Allah and Allah's Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم , therefore, as Muslims we must accept what the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said regarding the pictures. There are three hadeeth about pictures.

One hadeeth says that angels do not enter a house which has pictures or idols.

The 2nd hadeeth says that the pictures makers will be given the severest of punishment. They will be asked to put soul in the picture and they will not be able to do so, as a result of this they will be in the everlasting punishment.

The 3rd hadeeth says that the income that comes by selling pork, alcohol and pictures/idols is haram (unlawful).

Here we can see that the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم didn't say that pictures are prohibited for worshipping only. So we have no right to change the meaning of a hadeeth.

Salam alaykum

I don´t think that my post was against Muhammad. We should be the imams to understand the real meaning of the hadeeths and when we are not, we should listen the scholars. Hopely you read comment from br scimitar already.

I think he answered to you quite well already.

Sad you didn´t "like" my post but hopely you will read posts from those links.

 

[OmAbdullah]

I do think we have to be careful in pinpointing a single x issue to be the main cause of failure of Muslims. At the golden age of the Muslims, the Muslims were drawing pictures with faces etc, not always for necessity, and that was during the golden age when Muslims prospered. This does not make drawing such pictures right, of course.

As far as I know, and please correct me if I am wrong, there is no hadeeth or statement of a scholar that says this, that pictures and photos are the main cause of Muslim problems. Rasoolullah :saws: said, in his farewell sermon, "I have left among you the Book of Allah, and if you hold fast to it, you would never go astray." (Ref http://sunnah.com/muslim/15/159) and in one version, "the book of Allah and sunnah of his prophet :saws: ).

The hadeeth of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم is very clear. It says that He صلى الله عليه وسلم said, " I am leaving behind Allah's Book and my Sunnah. You will never be astray, after me, as long as you hold fast to these two." (Muslim)

The version that says about the Book of Allah only is not correct because it strengthens the concept of the rejecters of Hadeeth.

In fact I love the Muslims a lot. When I say direct words, my intention is to wake them up and divert them to the understanding of the Holy Quraan and Sunnah.

 

[sister herb]

In fact I love the Muslims a lot. When I say direct words, my intention is to wake them up and divert them to the understanding of the Holy Quraan and Sunnah.

Salam alaykum

But have you enough knowledge for this too? Are you a scholar or imam? Where you have got your knowledge to divert others?

 

[OmAbdullah]

You're assuming too much... and now I will show you how YOU are lacking in knowledge on THIS very subject. In your OP, you wrote:



Do you know who invented the Camera? Do you know who that man was and what else he invented? Do you know why he invented those things? DO you know where he drew his inspiration from?

The Camera was invented by Muslim Arab, who was a polymath and philosopher who made significant contributions to the principles of optics, astronomy, mathematics, meteorology, visual perception and perfected the scientific method... his inspiration was the Quran and Sunnah. His name was Ibn Al Haythm... and now to prove you wrong.

In relation to the capture of images or video from a camera - there are scholarly opinions which YOU are ignorant of, here I will enlighten you to your folly:

[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_light]What you say about it being haraam to take photographs and keep them except in cases of necessity, and it being permissible to watch TV and videos if they are free of evils, is the view of a number of scholars, including Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) and the scholars of the Standing Committee for Issuing Fatwas, may Allaah preserve them. [/FONT][FONT=wf_segoe-ui_light]Secondly: [/FONT][FONT=wf_segoe-ui_light]The confusion that you mentioned was answered by Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him), who explained that pictures contained on a video tape and the like are stored in the form of electro-magnetic waves, hence they were regarded as permissible by those who do not regard photographs as permissible. [/FONT][FONT=wf_segoe-ui_light]He (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Images made by modern methods are of two types: [/FONT][FONT=wf_segoe-ui_light]1 – Those that are stored in a way that does not have any tangible or visible form, as was mentioned in the case of images, such as video tapes. There is no ruling on these at all and they do not come under the prohibition at all. Hence the scholars who forbid photographs printed on paper regarded them as permissible, and said that there is nothing wrong with them. It was said:

[/FONT][FONT=wf_segoe-ui_light] If a person wants to make these permissible images, then he is subject to the five rulings according to his intention. If he intends thereby to do something haraam, then it is haraam. If he intends thereby to do something obligatory then it is obligatory. It may be obligatory to make images sometimes, especially moving images. For example, if we see someone committing a crime that is a crime against a person’s rights, such as a murder attempt and the like, and it cannot be proven except by means of a picture, then in that case taking a picture is obligatory, especially in cases where pictures could tell the full story, because the means are subject to the same rulings as the ends. If we use this image-making to prove the identity of a person lest he be accused of a crime committed by someone else, there is nothing wrong with this either, rather it is essential. But if we take a picture in order to enjoy looking at it, this is undoubtedly haraam. End quote from al-Sharh al-Mumti’ (2/197-199).
[/FONT]The basis of your entire argument rests on the premise that photos and videos are haraam - but I have proven to you that you have no real knowledge on the subject and therefore, your premise in the OP is false. Further, you are now on the back foot without a premise, and your OP has collapsed.

next time you accuse someone of being unaware of Quran and Sunnah, or Islamic rulings on matters - do your homework - and DO NOT ASSUME anything.

Scimi

Assalaamo alaikum wa rahmatullah.

May Allah bless you with the vast knowledge of the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah, aameen.

If camera was invented by a Muslim, then surely it was done to propagate Islam. It is camera which makes copies of the Islamic books very fast and now by fax and internet also the Islamic message can reach far and wide within very short time. This was the purpose of camera. But now .....?

Of course, camera is used to watch the criminals etc. Has this method decreased the crimes??? Is camera not used to spread crime by evil movies etc.? Before TV. there used to be immoral stories with songs on radios. It was not at all attractive and was not spreading immorality . Since TV. has come the whole world became full of crimes and immorality.

You have given the opinions of some scholars. You may be knowing that the scholars have differences concerning the pictures. I accept the opinion of only those scholars who follow Islam in accordance with the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم. Please remember that we will be questioned in our graves about Muhammadصلى الله عليه وسلم None of those scholars will come to protect us from punishment in our graves.

Allah سبحانه وتعالى said in the Holy Quraan: ... من يطع الرسول فقد اطاع الله

Whoever obeys the Messenger, in fact, obeys Allah...

surah Al- Nisaa verse 80

Therefore my sincere opinion to everyone is that yourself understand the Quraan and Sunnah. In one of my posts in this thread, I have given 3 ahaadeeth about pictures. Please read them and then decide, keeping in mind the grave and the Field of gathering in the Hereafter.

 

[فصيح الياسين]

Good debate.... are u scholor sis nbegam

 

[saif-uddin]

Brothers and sisters still arguing about the cause of our failure?

Nauzubillah min zaliq

Our success lies in following the Quran and Sunnah,

Let's not get into arguments about this matter, Allah tala and his messenger ﺻﻠﯽ الله ﺗﻌﺎﻟﯽٰ ﻋﻠﯿﮧ ﻭﺍٓﻟﮧ ﻭﺳﻠﻢ
have made it clear cut.

جزاك اللهُ خيراً‎

 

[Scimitar]

Assalaamo alaikum wa rahmatullah.

May Allah bless you with the vast knowledge of the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah, aameen.

Walaykum salaam, and Ameen, may HE return the same to you also, AMEEN.

If camera was invented by a Muslim, then surely it was done to propagate Islam. It is camera which makes copies of the Islamic books very fast and now by fax and internet also the Islamic message can reach far and wide within very short time. This was the purpose of camera. But now .....?

Of course, camera is used to watch the criminals etc. Has this method decreased the crimes??? Is camera not used to spread crime by evil movies etc.? Before TV. there used to be immoral stories with songs on radios. It was not at all attractive and was not spreading immorality . Since TV. has come the whole world became full of crimes and immorality.

Your argument recognises that technology can be used for both good and evil uses.

In the case of the camera - you can use it for beneficial purposes or for reasons of vanity or some other useless reasons which serve no purpose except to massage the ego or worse...

...Does this make the technology haraam? You seem to suggest that it does. It's a very right wing stance you've taken, whilst knowing that Islam is the religion which takes the "middle way".

You have given the opinions of some scholars. You may be knowing that the scholars have differences concerning the pictures. I accept the opinion of only those scholars who follow Islam in accordance with the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم. Please remember that we will be questioned in our graves about Muhammadصلى الله عليه وسلم None of those scholars will come to protect us from punishment in our graves.

Allah سبحانه وتعالى said in the Holy Quraan: ... من يطع الرسول فقد اطاع الله

Whoever obeys the Messenger, in fact, obeys Allah...

surah Al- Nisaa verse 80

Therefore my sincere opinion to everyone is that yourself understand the Quraan and Sunnah. In one of my posts in this thread, I have given 3 ahaadeeth about pictures. Please read them and then decide, keeping in mind the grave and the Field of gathering in the Hereafter.

You seem to NOT understand that the making of pictures is referred to as "image making" by "hand" - ie: sculpture or art representations of human beings and animals - or mythological creatures.

Whereas the Scholars agreed that the photograph is like a reflection one sees in a pool of still water - one which occurs naturally and is a reflection of reality - and not the interpreted bias of some artist or sculptor.

In relation to photographs, they can have beneficial uses as outlines in posts in this thread - but when people use these for the purpose of stupid thngs like "selfies" etc - then they are in danger of idolatry.

As for Ibn Al Haythm, he was a Muslim intellectual - if you want to know more about his invention of the camera - and what he thought about it - how he justified it etc - read about him. Why argue on a forum on a subject you really haven't explored in detail? In my first few posts I already showed you how you had no idea the camera was a Muslim invention, and that the man who invented it was a very famous Muslim academic who also formulated the "scientific method" which perfected the model Ptolemy pushed and overturned Ptolemy's shirk based model of the cosmos - and reconciled it into one which contained no shirk.

The reason I am making this point is so you can be aware that ibn Al Haythm was a God fearing man - and that by you calling his invention unislamic is a real slap to the face of a true Islamic hero and role model for many, whilst you are quite simply a nobody who has an opinion.

Learn to respect those you have taken issue with - especially if you know nothing about them - Ibn al Haythm was someone who very much contributed to the shaping of technology, medical breakthrough's, scientific methodology and a lot more besides - all because the Quran and Sunnah were his guiding light.

See, by your faulty logic - speakers should be haraam because people can play music through them - yet the scholars have unanimously agreed to allow the use of speakers in the masjids for adhaan, khutba and salaah... by that comparison, do you not see how faulty a premise you've let yourself get deluded into?

Scimi

 

[OmAbdullah]

Walaykum salaam, and Ameen, may HE return the same to you also, AMEEN.



Your argument recognises that technology can be used for both good and evil uses.

In the case of the camera - you can use it for beneficial purposes or for reasons of vanity or some other useless reasons which serve no purpose except to massage the ego or worse...

...Does this make the technology haraam? You seem to suggest that it does. It's a very right wing stance you've taken, whilst knowing that Islam is the religion which takes the "middle way".



You seem to NOT understand that the making of pictures is referred to as "image making" by "hand" - ie: sculpture or art representations of human beings and animals - or mythological creatures.

Whereas the Scholars agreed that the photograph is like a reflection one sees in a pool of still water - one which occurs naturally and is a reflection of reality - and not the interpreted bias of some artist or sculptor.

In relation to photographs, they can have beneficial uses as outlines in posts in this thread - but when people use these for the purpose of stupid thngs like "selfies" etc - then they are in danger of idolatry.

As for Ibn Al Haythm, he was a Muslim intellectual - if you want to know more about his invention of the camera - and what he thought about it - how he justified it etc - read about him. Why argue on a forum on a subject you really haven't explored in detail? In my first few posts I already showed you how you had no idea the camera was a Muslim invention, and that the man who invented it was a very famous Muslim academic who also formulated the "scientific method" which perfected the model Ptolemy pushed and overturned Ptolemy's shirk based model of the cosmos - and reconciled it into one which contained no shirk.

The reason I am making this point is so you can be aware that ibn Al Haythm was a God fearing man - and that by you calling his invention unislamic is a real slap to the face of a true Islamic hero and role model for many, whilst you are quite simply a nobody who has an opinion.

Learn to respect those you have taken issue with - especially if you know nothing about them - Ibn al Haythm was someone who very much contributed to the shaping of technology, medical breakthrough's, scientific methodology and a lot more besides - all because the Quran and Sunnah were his guiding light.

See, by your faulty logic - speakers should be haraam because people can play music through them - yet the scholars have unanimously agreed to allow the use of speakers in the masjids for adhaan, khutba and salaah... by that comparison, do you not see how faulty a premise you've let yourself get deluded into?

Scimi

Salaam and du'aa

Brother in Islam, I don't want to go into useless arguments and discussions. My duty is to convey the message of Islam sincerely. In other words this is the obligation on all of us to do amar bil ma'roof and nahi anil munkar. That is what I do on the forum.

All of the just brothers and sisters here can see our posts and they can decide with justice. I never accused ibn Al Haythm, rather I said that he must have done it for the propagation of Islam which is an obligation on us. Again I didn't accuse the technology, rather I said that picture making is haram and now our good Mulims,who otherwise follow the Islamic commands but don't abstain from pictures, are facing troubles. This is my point.

There are ahaadeeth which say that the hardest tests were given to the Prophets عليهم السلام

ًWe can think about the test of Younus عليه السلام he was enclosed in the belly of a fish. Again the hadeeth informs us that the greater a Muslim has taqwa the harder is the test given to him until he walks around without the burden of sin on his shoulders. Also we know from a hadeeth narrated by Ayisha rAa that by any trouble, sins are washed from Muslims. If a Muslim puts a small thing in a pocket and then he forgets its where about, he searches it and his sins are washed away from him during this search.

Keeping in mind the above information from the ahaadeeth, I can say that a very good Muslim, when makes such a big sin of making pictures, (because he considers it lawful), he/she/they go into sufferings. So as a Muslim this is my duty to inform them to abstain from this BIG SIN. If you don't want to accept the admonition, then it is up to you. This is the matter between you and Allah, I have nothing to do with it. But it is very strange that you did false accusations on me, which every reader can see.
I leave it to Allah, wa kafa billahi Haseeba.

 

[Scimitar]

Judging by your logic, you will say that to look in a mirror is haraam because you saw yourself

Ok, agree to disagree.

Salaam.

Scimi

 

[فصيح الياسين]

Its true that taking or creating pics of OBJECTS WHO HAVE SOULS are haram. And will be punished both who create or snap and other who been pictorized BY HIS OWN WILL.
I asked from my grand teacher today about it.. and he said it haram, i knew it was haram. But to confirm i asked from my grand teacher

 

[sister herb]

Its true that taking or creating pics of OBJECTS WHO HAVE SOULS are haram. And will be punished both who create or snap and other who been pictorized BY HIS OWN WILL.
I asked from my grand teacher today about it.. and he said it haram, i knew it was haram. But to confirm i asked from my grand teacher

This is one thing but this thread started from the claim that pictures and videos are the main cause of the failure of muslims. I doubt it is not the main cause. The third thing is of course, what is the failure of muslims.

Many muslims fight against other muslims and this could be kind of failure. But what the pictures and videos have with it? Do they cause these fights? Many people in the muslim majority countries are poor, they are living in the 3rd world countries. Is the reason behind the uneducation of them pictures and videos? Or might here have some other reasons too?

 

[M.I.A.]

i dont understand?

it all seems like common sense stuff to me.

pictures and media are just tools, you have to give context to them, a story, a background?

and in that is the distortion or inaccurate reflection.


...sometimes even the literal truth is not the same as the TRUTH.

but that is where we make our choices right?


its like if someone says that the prophet muhammed pbuh was a great strategist..

because he introduced religion to a people who were not monotheistic,

rather than the Jews or Christians.. who had already received revelation and would have been a lot harder to convert or even to give counsel too. (some guy said that too me last week)


it may be debatable as truth..

but i would disagree simply because i think allah swt is over all things.

..and in that context it misses the point altogether!


maybe that is why we fail, because we are not worthy..

because what we consider success is not what allah swt considers success.


because most of you have grown up in a world of pictures and media and now you turn away from them rather than figuring out how to use them..

not because of any sort of submission to a western ideal..

but rather because most of the world sits infront of some form of media...


although maybe not books so much anymore.


well, ISIS have figured it out anyway... are they best to represent you?


also, hieroglyphs


it seems like the distinction between rulers and tyrants is a difficult one to make, depending on which side of the line you stand on..

so why would he give you success when you are not fit to lead or to follow?


...best we do is struggle along and in that is the proof and the method.


insert many and numerous quranic verses here..

and just as many that oppose my view.


...allah swt has need of none of us.

 

[فصيح الياسين]

This is one thing but this thread started from the claim that pictures and videos are the main cause of the failure of muslims. I doubt it is not the main cause. The third thing is of course, what is the failure of muslims.

Many muslims fight against other muslims and this could be kind of failure. But what the pictures and videos have with it? Do they cause these fights? Many people in the muslim majority countries are poor, they are living in the 3rd world countries. Is the reason behind the uneducation of them pictures and videos? Or might here have some other reasons too?

Ya this is not only the cause much more than it. Simply still we following our nafs alot. Which causing faliure. Taking pics one of it. I just wrote this pic post to stop quarell.. i also belive alot of work to do upon ummah ,on my self.....

 

[eesa the kiwi]

seems to me ignorance of the deen is more of a contributing factor towards muslim faliure than taking pictures and Allah knows best.