Man needing a saviour???

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Hiroshi said:
I am wondering if the Qur'an says anywhere at all that the soul is conscious before a person is resurrected. All of the references to consciousness in the grave or elsewhere seem to be in the hadiths. Am I wrong here? Can you show me the 3 questions in the grave by angels in the Qur'an?
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You are correct. They are from Authenticate and reliable Ahadith.
 
Woodrow said:
You are correct. They are from Authenticate and reliable Ahadith.
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Hi Woodrow. Thanks for your reply. I hope things are well with you.

One other thing that I would like to ask is this: Surah 40:11 and Surah 44:56 seem to speak of a first death and a second death. How does somebody come to die twice?
 
The first life refers to the life in this world, and the second life refers to the life after being resurrected, on the day of judgment.
 
Hiroshi said:
One other thing that I would like to ask is this: Surah 40:11 and Surah 44:56 seem to speak of a first death and a second death. How does somebody come to die twice?
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the first death is the state before being born in the world, the second death is after the life in the world
the first life is the life in the world, the second life is after resurrected during the judgement day
 
abdussattar said:
The first life refers to the life in this world, and the second life refers to the life after being resurrected, on the day of judgment.
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Hi Abdussattar.

So then these ones speaking in Surah 40:11 are dead. Killed a second time. Is that correct?

"They will say: "Our Lord! twice hast Thou made us without life, and twice hast Thou given us Life! Now have we recognised our sins: Is there any way out (of this)?""
 
Aahih Al-Bukhari Book 60 Number 254 says:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Allah's Apostle said, "On the Day of Resurrection Death will be brought forward in the shape of a black and white ram. Then a call maker will call, 'O people of Paradise!' Thereupon they will stretch their necks and look carefully. The caller will say, 'Do you know this?' They will say, 'Yes, this is Death.' By then all of them will have seen it. Then it will be announced again, 'O people of Hell !' They will stretch their necks and look carefully. The caller will say, 'Do you know this?' They will say, 'Yes, this is Death.' And by then all of them will have seen it. Then it (that ram) will be slaughtered and the caller will say, 'O people of Paradise! Eternity for you and no death O people of Hell! Eternity for you and no death."' Then the Prophet, recited:-- 'And warn them of the Day of distress when the case has been decided, while (now) they are in a state of carelessness (i.e. the people of the world) and they do not believe.' (19.39)

Quoted from:
http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=60&translator=1&start=0&number=254#254

If the ones speaking in Surah 40:11 are dead and in Hell (or on their way to it) why does the hadith say: "... no death O people of Hell! Eternity for you and no death"? Are those in Hell alive or dead?
 
Hiroshi said:
Aahih Al-Bukhari Book 60 Number 254 says:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Allah's Apostle said, "On the Day of Resurrection Death will be brought forward in the shape of a black and white ram. Then a call maker will call, 'O people of Paradise!' Thereupon they will stretch their necks and look carefully. The caller will say, 'Do you know this?' They will say, 'Yes, this is Death.' By then all of them will have seen it. Then it will be announced again, 'O people of Hell !' They will stretch their necks and look carefully. The caller will say, 'Do you know this?' They will say, 'Yes, this is Death.' And by then all of them will have seen it. Then it (that ram) will be slaughtered and the caller will say, 'O people of Paradise! Eternity for you and no death O people of Hell! Eternity for you and no death."' Then the Prophet, recited:-- 'And warn them of the Day of distress when the case has been decided, while (now) they are in a state of carelessness (i.e. the people of the world) and they do not believe.' (19.39)

Quoted from:
http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=60&translator=1&start=0&number=254#254

If the ones speaking in Surah 40:11 are dead and in Hell (or on their way to it) why does the hadith say: "... no death O people of Hell! Eternity for you and no death"? Are those in Hell alive or dead?
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What is Death? How does one define death? Is the death of a human the same as the death of an animal?

To understand the concept of Death in a human you have to keep in mind we are created to be immortal While we are given a physical body to live upon this earth, that body is not us, it is only part of us. While death is reserved for what happens to our physical body, there is no death for our persona and soul. The body can be and will be created, destroyed and resurrected. But, our soul is immortal and will never taste death in a physical sense. This mass of physical protoplasm we call pur body is replaceable and one day it will be cast aside and replaced with an immortal body designed for Life (Jannah) However those who follow the path to hellfire will be Dead to the joys of Jannah and will be forgotten by those in Jannah. They alone will be aware of their own death for all of eternity. They too will gain an immortal body, and curse having it. Being dead does not obliterate the immortal soul.
 
Hiroshi said:
Please explain one thing.

In Surah 17:1 we are told that Muhammed is taken on a miraculous journey to a sacred mosque. There, according to hadith, he sees, among others, Abraham, Moses and Jesus.

Now with the exception of Jesus, we should expect these men who died long ago to be confined to their graves, according to what you have told me. Why then does Muhammed see them in the mosque?
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:sl:

Greetings Hiroshi,

i see that you are still doing your best to ask really complicated questions! did you know that Tawheed, the Oneness of Allah is what we are meant to be explaining to you? without truly understanding the Message of Allah's Oneness, the answers to many of you questions might not make sense to you.

if you can spare an hour or 2 of your time, Shaykh Abdullah al Farsi deals with the issue of the state of the Prophets in this lecture, the issue is dealt with in the 2nd half of the 1st video, found here:

http://www.qsep.com/dvd/fourfoundations.html

i recommend that you watch the whole of both parts, but you could begin at the segmented parts and start with the one labeled:
07. Refuting the calim of worldly life for the Mesengers in Barzakh

again, i want to remind you that if you take things out of context, they might appear as less than understandable.

some questions for you:

are you allowed by your Religion to read our Books or books on other faiths?

what are your beliefs on the condition of the Christian Scriptures?

don't you have a different "version" of the Bible than other Christians? if so, why?

btw, perhaps it would help us here when you ask some of your "complicated" questions if you were to let us know what your own Religion tells you on these specific matters, we might be able to spot your "confusion" with an issue more quickly that way. most of us have NO CLUE how much your Religion is different from that of other "Christians."

I don't mind Grace Seeker and myself having our disagreements as long as we can have friendly discussions.
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actually, he says straight out that JW's are NOT "Christians" and that it would be better for you even if you were a Muslim! which WOULD be better!

So, Jehovah's Witnesses have got you interested in the Bible for 30 years?
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it was her 1st time someone showed me a change in the Bible, changing Passover to Easter in the KJ. it was also the 1st time that i saw a Bible containing Hebrew/ English in the OT and Greek/English in the NT, all numbered to Strong's. THAT was REALLY IMPRESSIVE! while i was never a JW, i always felt that they were one of the VERY FEW forms of "Christianity" that actually love God and try to follow the Christian Scriptures to the best of their ability! that is also impressive in the "Jesus loves you, do whatever the heck you want" era of "Christianity."

of course, Islam is MORE dedicated to God and His True Message!

:wa:
 
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YusufNoor said:
:sl:



some questions for you:

are you allowed by your Religion to read our Books or books on other faiths?

what are your beliefs on the condition of the Christian Scriptures?

don't you have a different "version" of the Bible than other Christians? if so, why?



:wa:
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Hi YusufNoor.

Sorry for the complicated questions. They don't seem to lead anywhere so I will try to keep things simple.

No, we are not supposed to study books and literature of other religious faiths. But I do it anyway.

My understanding concerning the condition of the Greek scriptures is that essentially we have them today as they were recorded by the writers. There are some variant readings in the texts of the manuscripts. But in most cases these variations do not affect doctrinal matters. Usually these are simply the result of copyist errors. By comparing the vast numbers of ancient manuscripts that are now available most of these errors can be eliminated.

One example is found at 1 Timothy 3:16 where the word "he" (referring to Jesus) was wrongly copied as "God" due to a firm line showing through from the other side of the parchment changing the appearance of a letter. Modern research and more reliable ancient manuscripts make for far more accurate readings of the text. "God" appears in the King James at 1 Timothy 3:16 but not in more modern versions.

JWs have translated their own version of the Bible: the New World Translation. It has many critics. But I will explain any objections that might be raised.
 
Woodrow said:
What is Death? How does one define death? Is the death of a human the same as the death of an animal?

To understand the concept of Death in a human you have to keep in mind we are created to be immortal While we are given a physical body to live upon this earth, that body is not us, it is only part of us. While death is reserved for what happens to our physical body, there is no death for our persona and soul. The body can be and will be created, destroyed and resurrected. But, our soul is immortal and will never taste death in a physical sense. This mass of physical protoplasm we call pur body is replaceable and one day it will be cast aside and replaced with an immortal body designed for Life (Jannah) However those who follow the path to hellfire will be Dead to the joys of Jannah and will be forgotten by those in Jannah. They alone will be aware of their own death for all of eternity. They too will gain an immortal body, and curse having it. Being dead does not obliterate the immortal soul.
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But the Bible does not say that the soul is immortal. And neither does the Qur'an.
 

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