Many Christians are Converting to Islam

[Insaanah]

The Scriptures teach us that Jesus is the Word of God who always existed but not in human form.

So if he was the message, did Adam and Noah and every single other prophet preach that Jesus is the son of God, but he does not yet exist, and did they say to people that Jesus is the message we have come with, but he does not yet exist in human form, so accept this not yet human as your personal saviour?

We do not ascribe partners unto God that is an Islamic phrase that has nothing to do with Christianity.

You just said in a previous post that Jesus was subordinate to God, yet is equal in nature. So you're admitting it yourself, whether you see it or not. You are making a subordinate being, equal to God. And God can never be subordinate to anyone, thus Jesus is not God, but you are making him God, and that is ascribing partners to God.

BTW, what part is man's word & which is God's?

The onus is on you to tell me that, as you claim to follow the Bible. As for me, if something agrees with the Qur'an then it could be the word of God, and if it is diametrically opposed, then it is obviously not. The Qur'an, the final testament, is the standard, the criterion.

Not even Muhammad came against the written Scriptures that came before. Muhammad came against people that were wrong never the text.

We believe in the scriptures that God originally revealed, and in the books that God revealed to Jesus and to Moses and to David and any others (peace be upon them all). Not any words of a humans that might be added to these.

Sahih International
So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. (2:79)

It is like you are saying that mans ability to corrupt God's word is stronger than God to keep His word in tact. I believe my God can and has preserved His word form before Muhammad's time and after.

One of the reasons God sent messengers and prophets was when the message or scripture given to previous prophets had been corrupted by people. There was no need for God to send a chain of prophets otherwise, as none of humanity would ever have been misguided. He has promised to preserve the Qur'an and has issued challenges in the Qur'an for people to come up with something like it. Whereas the Bible itself is witness to the fact that it has been changed:

"'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" (Jeremiah 8:8)

Using the same logic as that in your question, why do you believe that God couldn't forgive mankind without making part of himself come to the earth and having to have all bodily functions such as helplessness and defaecation, and letting himself be killed, and crying to himself as to why he had forsaken himself? It is Christians who appear to be denigrating the power of God, not Muslims.

Please lose the math problem. God cannot be figured out using math, reason and human logic. His ways and thoughts are as high as heaven is from the earth from our ways and thoughts as written in Scripture

Please don't be embarrassed about admitting that your salvation depends on a core belief that you don't understand, can't explain, doesn't make sense, and isn't mentioned explicitly anywhere in the Bible. It is not the nature of God to give convoluted beliefs to people, that don't make sense "For God is not the author of confusion.." ( 1 Corinthians 14:33). So who exactly is the author of this confusion?

That’s why we call you to a religion in which the concept is very clear. There’s One God, He’s indivisible, He doesn’t have children, nor relatives, nor grandparents, and He does not die. Compare this with there’s one God who had 3 different godheads, but at the same time, they’re still 1, one of them dies for three days, & instead of being 2 (or ⅔), they’re still 1, even though they’re physically separated. Which of these two is easier to understand?
If we explained this to a child now, which one is easier for them?

Why would Allah present you with a concept that doesn’t make logical sense to you, doesn’t agree with humans naturally, you don’t understand it, you can’t explain it, and then tell you that to be saved you have to believe in this strange concept? Please think about it.

That’s why we call you to a religion in which you don’t have to separate between your logical self and your spiritual self, where the concepts make sense. We call you to a religion in which there is One God, none other is worthy of worship except Him, He sent prophets & messengers (inluding Jesus peace be upon him) to warn humanity, and this is the message that has always been.

 

[Aprender]

You need to understand the history of the Biblical texts. That's what I did. I grew up in a Christian household, in my later high school and early college years I went away from Christianity and then came back to it. My goal was to study as much about Christianity as I could so I could go out and let people know about the joy of Christianity and being saved.

So I read the different translations of the Bible. Some of them had different verses out of place. Some had verses that were missing. And so I went to different Bible scholars to help explain some of the inconsistencies to me. Remember this story?

John 8:1-7
[SUP]2[/SUP] At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. [SUP]3[/SUP] The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group [SUP]4[/SUP] and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. [SUP]5[/SUP] In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” [SUP]6[/SUP] They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. [SUP]7[/SUP] When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Do you know that all of that is a fabrication? It is a story that was made up and later added to the Bible to support the new message that was being brought to the people. No Muslim told me this. Christian scholars did. Christian scholars also told me that we don't have a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the original text.


Now I don't know about you but that worried me a lot. But I initially ignored it and went on believing in this message that we'd all be saved if we just had faith and believed that Jesus, pbuh, would save us. Then I learned that the Trinity was a concept that was added to the Bible about two centuries after Jesus, pbuh, was here. I was fine with that because it was a concept that made absolutely no sense to me and made no sense to the scholars even who taught it. I was fine with letting that go. Then the more I learned about Christianity, I saw that there were more than 30,000 different types of Christianity. If they're all teaching from the same book, then why so many? Which one is right Christianity? Furthermore, there are versions of the Bible which call the One God, ALLAH. Many of them are out of print in the West for obvious reasons.

Another example from the Bible was this character Lilith. It is a story in Jewish mythology. If you look back in history you would find in old versions of the Bible her name shows up. It is said in these traditions that she was the first woman created but she was cast out of the Garden for not wanting to submit to Adam, pbuh, so she became a demon and was the cause of sorrow, misery, infertility and wet dreams for people. Look in your version of the Bible today and you won't find any mention of her anymore because her name was translated out of the Bible. This is what it used to say in
Isaiah 34:14

And there shall the beasts of the desert meet with the jackals, and the wild goat shall cry to his fellow; the Lilith also shall settle there, and find for herself a place of rest.

And this is what it says now:
[SUP]14[/SUP] Desert creatures will meet with hyenas,
and wild goats will bleat to each other;
there the night creatures will also lie down
and find for themselves places of rest.

Then another translation:

[SUP]14[/SUP] And wild animals shall meet with hyenas;
the wild goat shall cry to his fellow;
indeed, there the night bird settles
and finds for herself a resting place.

And another translation:
[SUP]14[/SUP]The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.

So she goes from being a woman, to a night creature, to a bird and in some translations an owl. What is she then? Furthermore, we know that this story isn't true so why is it even referenced in the Bible to begin with?

This just goes to show you how unreliable translations are. And we also know that Muhammad (pbuh) appears in the Bible but was translated OUT of current Biblical texts for obvious reasons.

Further going into history, you would find that if any of the current Christians said what they say about Jesus, pbuh, today, you would be killed for blasphemy! Even James, his own brother, did not look at Jesus, pbuh, as divine but rather a prophet and messenger of the One God. So tell me, would you rather believe the word of Paul, a man who never even met Jesus, over his own brother who was there with him when he was on the earth?

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

And if we look toward the context of this verse, he is looking up the heavens and praying! What you need to do is get a red letter Bible. Look at the message that Jesus taught and then look at the message that Paul taught. They're not the same. Essentially Paul is saying in the Bible that while Jesus, pbuh, was here, he couldn't do what he was supposed to to get the word out so Paul had to be inspired to do it and correct what Jesus taught to the people!

It matters not if you think that you don't follow the teachings of Paul but at the end of the day you follow what Paul taught. That is what is being taught. Of all of the monotheistic religions, Christianity is the only one that reveres other people and saints in some forms of it instead of praying to ONE God alone with no intermediaries.

We can sit here and go back and forth and talking about what we "think" is the concept of God and what he is supposed to be and what his message means. Sure, you can do that in the Bible since many Christians believe that throughout the years many different people were "inspired" and wrote those thoughts down in addition to fabrications and other false concepts that weren't originally apart of the Bible or taught by ANY of the prophets, peace be upon them all. Only in the Quran is it laid out exactly what it always HAS been and always will be. Trying to reinterpret it to fit what you want to hear is not going to change the fact that you are to worship ONE God, and do good works. Yes, it is all about faith and I believe that the life of Jesus, pbuh, was an amazing way to show the people on a serious level that there is one God based on all of the amazing miracles that God allowed him to do in his lifetime. But to mix it up with all of that falsehood really is a disservice to yourself. The first commandment is the first commandment for a reason.

My advice is to go to the source text in the original languages, READ, if you can try and learn the Greek and Hebrew languages so you can see for yourself some of the translation errors and see what was changed. Jesus, pbuh, did not speak English but more closely one of the Semitic languages known as Aramaic. English didn't come around until about 900 years ago and you get into a lot of trouble trying to translate the word of God from a translation that's not even in the original language to begin with.

 

[Aprender]

The Bible states that if anyone preaches a different message than Jesus Christ crucified even if it is an angel let him be eternally condemned.

Aside from prostitution, public relations is one of the world's oldest professions. So when Paul was getting the Christianity that he was teaching in the Bible, he told his followers not to listen to anything else that anyone else is saying because his is the truth and if you listen to others then you're done for forever. Mind you, there were other forms of Christianity going around after Jesus was gone. So, if what Paul was taught is really the truth then anything else that another one brought couldn't possibly measure up to it. What is to be feared from learning and examining all of the other ones out there? If anything having the truth and seeing the superiority of it to the other Christianities out there would boost up Paul's credibility.

In Islam we are encouraged to learn and read about everything else out there instead of following blindly.

Why was the Quran written when it means recitation.

So people the people can read it and reflect on it. Not everyone is a Hafiz. Back then it was memorized by many people but to preserve the message it was also written. The same thing is recitied as it is written. Translations of the Quran are not the Quran as the Quran is in Arabic.

I will let someone more knowledgeable answer the other questions for you as I am a new Muslim and I still have a lot to learn. May Allah have mercy on us and guide us all to the truth. Ameeen.

 

[Burninglight]

^^ me too, u obiviously dont see the truth maybe u never will..because allah has block her heart has made u deaf and blind...u wil proberly never see how beautiful islam is.

I can see beauty in your signature, but if you feel that way. why do you say you're of an "other" religion in your profile???
^o)

 

[Insaanah]

The Bible states that if anyone preaches a different message than Jesus Christ crucified even if it is an angel let him be eternally condemned.

That's not Jesus (peace be upon him) saying that, that's Paul, who never even met Jesus (peace be upon him). It's not Jesus's nor God's word, and was written after Jesus's departure from earth. Jesus (peace be upon him) had no knowledge of that. See sister Aprenders posts above, too.

Wasn't it an angel that proclaimed a different message than the Bible to Muhammad?

Angel Gabriel (peace be upon him) conveyed from God the same message that has always been (see my first post in this thread). It is current day Christianity that has turned Jesus and turned God into something never heard of before. Islam is a continuation of the same self-evident truth that always was, and that was given to all the prophets, and the same thing they all preached:

Jesus said, and his words recorded in the Qur'an, the same as those of other prophets, translations as follows:

"Indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is the straight path." (3:51)

"I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness. (5:117)

[Jesus said], "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path." (19:36)

"Indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. This is a straight path." (43:64)

And Allah says: They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers. (Translation of Qur'an 5:72)

Indeed the learned Christian cousin of the wife of the Prophet (peace be upon him) recognised the description of Angel Gabriel (peace be upon him) as being the same angel that went to Moses (peace be upon him), and the then Christian Negus of Abyssinia recognised the message as coming from the same source as that given to Jesus (peace be upon him). There were still those then that recognised the truth.

Why was the Quran written when it means recitation.

To facilitate it's recitation for those who didn't know it by heart.

How does one get write out of say?

Urmm, by writing down what was said!

Was Uthman a prophet who could recompile the Quran after burning them.

He didn't recompile it.

Why does the Bible say that no prophets come from Ishmael

Humans wrote that possibly because it would be highly convenient as then an excuse could be made not to follow the next prophet that God was going to send. Except that they made one omission, which tells that a prophet was going to come, descended from Ishmael (peace be upon him):

And, actually, God tells Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) in the Bible that there will come a non-israelite prophet, specifically an ishmaelite prophet, who people have to follow:

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren,
like unto thee,
and I will put my words in his mouth;
and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." (Deuteronomy.18:18).

First thing is "a prophet from among their brethren", note that it does not say "from among them" but "from among their brethren". Who are the brethren of the israelites? The ishmaelites! If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham (peace be upon them all), then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN of the children of the other. So God is telling you that a Prophet will come, who is a descendent of Ishmael (peace be upon him).

Next: "Like unto thee".

Some say the verses refer to Jesus (peace be upon him) but let's put that to the test and examine the likes:

Both Moses (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) had a mother and father, Jesus (pbuh) did not.
Both Moses (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) had a normal birth, Jesus (pbuh) did not.
Both Moses (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) married and had children, Jesus (pbuh) did not.
Both Moses (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) were accepted by their people in their lifetime, while Jesus (pbuh) on the whole was not accepted by the Jews he was sent to.
Both Moses (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) died natural deaths, Jesus (pbuh) did not.
And the list goes on...

So the Prophet like unto Moses (peace be upon him) is Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Next:"And I will put my words into his mouth"

History tells us that Muhummad (pbuh) was forty years of age. He was in a cave some three miles north of the City of Mecca. In the cave the Archangel Gabriel commands him in his mother tongue: 'Iqra'' which means Read! or Proclaim! or Recite! Muhummed (pbuh) was terrified and in his bewilderment replied that he was not learned! The angel commands him a second time with the same result. For the third time the angel continues.

Now Muhummad (pbuh) grasps what was required of him was to repeat! to rehearse! And he repeats the words as they were put into his mouth:

"Read! In the name of your Lord and Cherisher, who created-
Created man, from a clinging substance:

Read! And thy Lord is most bountiful,-
He who taught (the use of) the pen,

Taught man that which he knew not".
(Holy Qur'an 96:1-5)

These are the first five verses which were revealed to Prophet Muhummad (peace be upon him) which now occupy the beginning of the 96th chapter of the Holy Qur'an.

"If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account." (Deuteronomy 18:19)

113 chapters of the Qur'an as revealed by Allah to, and spoken by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) all begin with "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful." God's words, spoken by the Prophet, in His name. With this formula in fact, Muslims begin every lawful act. And in the first revelation to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), mentioned above, what were the words that came immediately after Read? Have a look... "in the name of your Lord."

The Prophecy is fulfilled in Prophet Muhummad (peace be upon him) to the letter.

"If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account." (Deuteronomy 18:19)

So God is telling you in the Bible to believe in prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). And I invite you to do so.

Sahih International
O Mankind, the Messenger has come to you with the truth from your Lord, so believe; it is better for you. But if you disbelieve - then indeed, to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and earth. And ever is Allah Knowing and Wise. (4:70)

Sahih International
Say, [O Muhammad], "O mankind, indeed I am the Messenger of Allah to you all, [from Him] to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. There is no deity except Him; He gives life and causes death." So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered prophet, who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him that you may be guided. (7:158)

and that ishmael was no prophhet?

As I said in my first post in this thread, unlike Christians and Jews, Muslims do not reject nor discriminate nor defame the characters of any of the prophets or messengers of God, and that is one of our articles of faith. We believe in and accept them all, as the noblest of humanity that ever walked the face of the earth, sent to guide and warn mankind. And this is what God says in the Qur'an about Prophet Ishmael (peace be upon him):

And mention in the Book, Ishmael. Indeed, he was true to his promise, and he was a messenger and a prophet.
And he used to enjoin on his people prayer and almsgiving and was to his Lord, pleasing. (Translation of Qur'an 19:54-55)

Say (O Muslims): "We believe in Allah, and that which has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the descendants, and what was given to to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And to Him we have submitted (in Islam)." (Holy Qur'an 2:136).

I just have one question after another whenever I consider Islam.

Excellent. Your mind wishes to know more and learn the truth. Fire away.

 

[Marina-Aisha]

I can see beauty in your signature, but if you feel that way. why do you say you're of an "other" religion in your profile???
^o)

I am Greek orthodox Christian but I'm converting to Islam, I believe. Maybe u should actually read the quran then maybe u a might understand but proberly not like I said allah has blocked ur heart, only he knows if u will see the truth. We could talk to u until we r blue in the face and still u might not see.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Greetings of peace

You believe He is just a messenger, but we believe He is the message. This makes it hard for me to see how this makes Islam superior to any religion much less Christianity a religion that I believe has the purest form of monotheism in the world. We understand that Jesus was subordinate to God in position, office and function, but we know explicitly from the Scriptures that came before Muhammmad's time that He is equal in nature and character to God. So if you are calling who the Bible considers to be the exact representation of all that God is just a prophet, that is a significant demotion to say the least. Wouldn't you agree?
From what I can tell in compartive religions, I wouldn't want to be caught dead in those shoes hew
TC

Why is that you use the term 'just' a prophet, are prophets low or high in status than those who are not prophets or messengers? What is the purpose of a prophet or messenger? Are not prophets or messengers representatives of God? What is their purpose?

If Jesus (p) is similar to God in nature and character, then that would mean God is weak, helpless? Did he (jesus (p)) not call for help while being on the cross according to your scripture?

Lets see:

Nature and character of Jesus (p) was born, needs food, needs to clean himself, has to buy food etc etc. Jesus managed to perform miracles.

Nature and character of God: God was not born, needs neither food nor water. God granted jesus the 'permission' to perform the miracles.

The list is endless, as you can see Jesus (p) has many needs while God does not.

So, indeed! God is all powerful, he needs nobody to help him rather he provides for us as he is the provider. He is the one!

This makes it hard for me to see how this makes Islam superior to any religion much less Christianity a religion that I believe has the purest form of monotheism in the world.

But do you not worship Jesus (p) as God? Jesus called upon his father, who was then the father?

Also just to add since many have answered your questions, as muslims we do not worship the creation we worship the creator.

 

[Burninglight]

You need to understand the history of the Biblical texts. That's what I did. I grew up in a Christian household, in my later high school and early college years I went away from Christianity and then came back to it. My goal was to study as much about Christianity as I could so I could go out and let people know about the joy of Christianity and being saved.

What makes you think I don't understand or haven't studied about these negligilble interpolations and translational errors?

Further going into history, you would find that if any of the current Christians said what they say about Jesus, pbuh, today, you would be killed for blasphemy! Even James, his own brother, did not look at Jesus, pbuh, as divine but rather a prophet and messenger of the One God. So tell me, would you rather believe the word of Paul, a man who never even met Jesus, over his own brother who was there with him when he was on the earth?
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Do you see anywhere where James said He is not the son of God or divine? What Jesus says here in Jn 17 sounds like the Christian Shaadah. He says what is important is to know the only true God and Jesus. Why does he mention the only true God and Jesus Christ? Is it because there is no way to know one without the other??? Yes, it goes along with what all the apostles said. Let's look at some of what James says Ja 1 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. [SUP]17[/SUP] Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. [SUP]18[/SUP] He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created. The birth of Jesus was the word of truth comming into the world. Ja 2 [SUP]1[/SUP] My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. He mentions "Our Lord Jesus Christ"

Now I don't know about you but that worried me a lot. But I initially ignored it and went on believing in this message that we'd all be saved if we just had faith and believed that Jesus, pbuh, would save us. Then I learned that the Trinity was a concept that was added to the Bible about two centuries after Jesus, pbuh, was here.

This worried you? Why? It is true scholars say that the story of the woman caught in adultery cannot be verified, but it doesn't mean for sure it didn't happen. It is a beautiful story I hope it really is true, but even if it is not, it doesn't proof wholesale corruption of the word of God. So all we have is copies. At least we have them. Why did Uthman burn the original copies of the Quran? Those that were burned you no longer have to compare with what you have now. That would bother me. What would bother me the most is Gal 3: 1-9

Another example from the Bible was this character Lilith. It is a story in Jewish mythology.

I am not sure what to make of this, but it was somewhat interesting, but not enough nearly to pull me from my faith in God.
The Bible as far as the good news is consistent in all translations. We can see a clear picture with no contradictions that we have all sinned and come short of God's glory; the wages of sin is eternal separation from God but the gift of God is eternal life only through Christ. As far as trinity goes, that word is not in the Bible, but the concept of it is not a fabricatrion. The father is mentioned in the Bible as being God; Jesus is mentioned as being the son of God and the holy Sprit is mentioned as being God. These is not a belief in 3 gods. Jesus is God's eternal word. Jesus is the word God used to speak all things into exsistence. This is not ascrbing partners unto God, because the Holy Spirit is not a creation and neith is God's Word.
peace

 

[Abz2000]

Why does the Bible say that no prophets come from Ishmael and that ishmael was no prophhet? Isn't Muhammad a descendant of Ishmael?

And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs. 16And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept. 17And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
18Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.
19And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.20And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. 21And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran:
and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.

And this is the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death.2And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them;
he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints:
from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

Abu Sufyan ibn Harb, the leader of the Quraysh in Mecca, sensing that the balance was now tilted in Muhammad's favour and that the Quraish were not strong enough to stop the Muslims from conquering the city, travelled to Medina, trying to restore the treaty. During his stay, he was repulsed by Ali and by his own daughter Ramlah, who now was one of Muhammad's wives. Though Muhammad refused to reach an agreement and Abu Sufyan returned to Mecca empty handed, these efforts ultimately ensured that the conquest occurred without battle.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
Muhammad assembled an army of approximately 10,000 men and marched towards Mecca.

Then along with his companions Muhammad visited the Kaaba.
The idols were broken and their gods were destroyed. Thereupon Muhammad recited the following verse from the Qur'an:
"Say the Truth is come and falsehood gone; Verily falsehood is ever vanishing."

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:
for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:
and he will shew you things to come.

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

what are u thinking, it's the holy spirit?

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
40Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet. 41Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?

Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.

what are you thinking?
it was the Christ they were talking about?
let me show you that they were awaiting the Prophet who would bring the new "fiery law", and that this was in contrast with Christ.
it was not just "a prophet", but "the specific Prophet".

And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him,
Who art thou? 20And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
21And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not.
Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 23He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

think for yourself,
the nicene creed was not written by Jesus (pbuh),
i'm sure you'll agree that the people were awaiting someone, and that Christ (pbuh) prophesied someone who will "bring them unto all truth".
a completed law.

 

[Burninglight]

So if he was the message, did Adam and Noah and every single other prophet preach that Jesus is the son of God, but he does not yet exist, and did they say to people that Jesus is the message we have come with, but he does not yet exist in human form, so accept this not yet human as your personal saviour?

Yes, they did in the message was always there in Christ's pre-carnate form. Don't forget it was Jesus that said, "Before Abraham was I am" The Jews wanted to stone Him for saying it too.

You just said in a previous post that Jesus was subordinate to God, yet is equal in nature. So you're admitting it yourself, whether you see it or not. You are making a subordinate being, equal to God. And God can never be subordinate to anyone, thus Jesus is not God, but you are making him God, and that is ascribing partners to God.

In Hebrews, God calls Jesus God. he says. "But thou OH God is a throne of righteousness..." God never ever said that about any other prophet. Just because we don't understand doesn't mean it is not true. It is written "Let every man be a liar but God's word is true"

Please don't be embarrassed about admitting that your salvation depends on a belief that you don't understand, can't explain, and doesn't make sense, and isn't mentioned explicitly anywhere in the Bible. It is not the nature of God to give convoluted beliefs to people, that don't make sense "For God is not the author of confusion.." ( 1 Corinthians 14:33). So who exactly is the author of this confusion?

I am not embarrassed. I am glad you think you have God all firgured. I am just honest enough to admit I don't. One might not understand how electricity works or computers but that doesn't stop them from using them or believing it is true energy or just because someone doesn't understand how the digestive system works it doesn't deep them from eating

 

[Aprender]

but not enough nearly to pull me from my faith in God

Becoming a Muslim doesn't mean you no longer have faith in God. In fact it is the quite the opposite. Do you know what the word Muslim means? Just because I stopped going to church doesn't mean I stopped believing in God for one minute. I just began to study other religions.

As far as trinity goes, that word is not in the Bible, but the concept of it is not a fabricatrion.

You might want to double check that with a few Christian scholars as I learned otherwise. The concept of the trinity was added to the religion some 200 years after Jesus (pbuh) walked the earth and verses were later on added into the Bible to allude to that fabrication. But you can go ahead and do your own research on that one.

 

[Burninglight]

And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs. 16And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept. 17And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
18Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.
19And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.20And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. 21And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran:
and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.

This proves Ishmael and his descendants are blessed, but not prophets or part of the promised bloodline that came with Isaac and Jacob as promised to Abraham by God forever.

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

what are u thinking, it's the holy spirit?

What do you think? Muhammad was not a Spirit. The Spirit of truth is Holy; therefore, I can conclude He is the Holy Spirit who manifests Himself in many ways and at different times. This is a very far fetched argument based of conjecture, inference and speculation that does not have a foundation rooted in other Scriptures. Even Deut 18 18 refers to Jesus as mentioned in the Bible. It pertained to Jesus before Muhammad was born as written when the apostle told the other apostles we have found that which Moses spoke of Jesus.

what are you thinking?
it was the Christ they were talking about?
let me show you that they were awaiting the Prophet who would bring the new "fiery law", and that this was in contrast with Christ.
it was not just "a prophet", but "the specific Prophet".

Jesus is that specific prophet. The Bible says HE will be called Immanuel )God with us) Jesus is called wonderful counselro; Prince of Peace; Everlasting father; Mighty God; The Lion of the tribe of Judah and the list goes on and on. If it had teeth it would bite you now, but one day soon and very soon it would be teeth but a sword when Jeus comes back to set the recor straight. Do you know, I just can't wait for that

 

[Aprender]

Don't forget it was Jesus that said, "Before Abraham was I am" The Jews wanted to stone Him for saying it too.

That's the way it has been interpreted and taught. But we believe that God has a plan for everything and before Abraham was, God already knew that he would send Jesus (pbuh) to deliver the message of worshiping him without ANY partners and doing good. It was already written.

This worried you? Why?

If someone gave you a textbook and said that if you read chapters 1-4 that you would get an A on your upcoming history exam. Then 20 minutes before the exam, you found out that you had the print copy of the textbook and none of the dates or names were correct because it hadn't made it to the editor and fact checkers yet. That and the other students in the class had other paragraphs in their book that wasn't in yours with information that you didn't study at all because it wasn't in your version of the book. You would be worried.

Do you see anywhere where James said He is not the son of God or divine?

This is not in the Bible. James said in outside writings himself that he did not believe in the divinity of his brother.

Check. Double check. And check again. Keep reading and keep searching and keep on asking questions.

 

[Aprender]

If it had teeth it would bite you now, but one day soon and very soon it would be teeth but a sword when Jeus comes back to set the recor straight. Do you know, I just can't wait for that

Be careful what you wish for, my dear brother.

 

[Burninglight]

I am a convert, I can say I did not choose Islam, Allah guided me to the right path and that is the most amazing (beyond words) gift I have ever had in my life, and I had never wished anything for myself before. But now I have one, inshallah (Godwilling) I will die as a real Muslim, Amen

How did Allah guide you?

 

[Burninglight]

Be careful what you wish for, my dear brother.

Why? I not not wish for it I am praying for it. There are son many false religions and cults and infornmation and truth is so hard to find. I am tired of Satan's tricks. If someone can convince me that Chrisitanity is a lie, I would end up being an atheist, but it is impossible that God doesn't exists. The heavens declare His glory. Jesus said He is the Truth and the life. He didn't say I show you the truth or the way. I have to believe that in Him I am complete and pleasing in God's sight. Jesus said, "You will die in your sins if you don't believe I am He" This doesn't sound like the council of Nicea, Constantine or Jews or any body making up stories to get us to believe in Jesus. Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice, and they follow me; They won't listen to the voice of another"

 

[Burninglight]

That's the way it has been interpreted and taught. But we believe that God has a plan for everything and before Abraham was, God already knew that he would send Jesus (pbuh) to deliver the message of worshiping him without ANY partners and doing good. It was already written.

If someone gave you a textbook and said that if you read chapters 1-4 that you would get an A on your upcoming history exam. Then 20 minutes before the exam, you found out that you had the print copy of the textbook and none of the dates or names were correct because it hadn't made it to the editor and fact checkers yet. That and the other students in the class had other paragraphs in their book that wasn't in yours with information that you didn't study at all because it wasn't in your version of the book. You would be worried.

Yes, I would be concerned it this happened, but that cannot be proved regarding the Bible. You take by faith that Jesus didn't say He is the son of God just as much as I take it by faith He did. We both can't be right.

This is not in the Bible. James said in outside writings himself that he did not believe in the divinity of his brother.

Check. Double check. And check again. Keep reading and keep searching and keep on asking questions

Where does James say he doesn't believe in the divinty of Jesus?

 

[Burninglight]

Christians claim to be monotheistic. Why should anyone tell us we are not? We don't associate partner with God

 

[YusufNoor]

It has nothing to do with my imagination. It has to do with what God said.

you mean, what you imagine god said.


Jesus is God's word made flesh. That is what God tells us in the Bible.

actually, it is what the unknown, anonymous author of John said. there is nothing to link the author of John with ANYTHING Jesus may or may not have said.

I believe this. God said He is only one with no other gods before Him. I believe this. Jesus is not another god in an inferior position. I never even used the word inferior.

you said subordinate:

sub·or·di·nate/səˈbôrdn-it/
Adjective:
Lower in rank or position: "his subordinate officers".

lower = lessor

Is your son inferior to you?

neither of my sons are subordinate to me, nor do any of us claim to be a god. i don't see the connection.

Jesus calls God his father and God calls Jesus His son. Who I am I to call God and Jesus a liar?

you have no authentic contemporaneous writings from the life of Jesus to claim what Jesus said.


Who are you?^o)

i am Sam

Christians claim to be monotheistic.

just because they claim so, doesn't make it true.

Why should anyone tell us we are not?

because you claim that your god is three.

We don't associate partner with God

you DO claim associate [and subordinate] partnership with your god.

If someone were to say God has 3 daughters; now, that would be ascribing partners.

so...daughters would be ascribing partners, but not sons...

is this some new kind of sacred geometry?

 

[Burninglight]

Becoming a Muslim doesn't mean you no longer have faith in God. In fact it is the quite the opposite. Do you know what the word Muslim means? Just because I stopped going to church doesn't mean I stopped believing in God for one minute. I just began to study other religions.

I know that. I meant in believing in the God of the Bible in both the OT & NT

You might want to double check that with a few Christian scholars as I learned otherwise. The concept of the trinity was added to the religion some 200 years after Jesus (pbuh) walked the earth and verses were later on added into the Bible to allude to that fabrication. But you can go ahead and do your own research on that one.

All I need is the Bible to come up with the fahter being God and the Holy Spirit and Jesus being God's Word which of course would have to be divine for God cannot be greater than His word. For it is written, He exalts His word above all His name. The ord was subordinate to God when the word became flesh.(Jesus) There was never a prophet closer to God than God's word! I am accountable for what I know about this