Marrying your own cousin?!!!!

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well as my bro/ sis answered .......... its not suppose. .. if u want.. // peace
 
Jazzy said:
:sl:

^^ I agree. If it has been made permissible for us, I don't see the problem. And everything is in the hands of Allah Ta'ala. If He wishes, there won't be problems...so I don't see the point of arguing over it. There are loads of people who don't marry in the family and still have kids with problems, so why the issue? Just because it happens within the family doesn't mean it doesn't happen without it. Duh.

:w:
Click to expand...
Sister Skye has hinted at the scientific reasons for why marrying cousins is not a good idea. My profession is a cotton breeder and Masha'Allah I am somewhat knowledgeable about Mendelian genetics. I have worked out the probability of a child expressing a genetic defect (mm) carried by only one of their grandparents in heterozygous condition (Mm) while all the other grandparents and parents had the normal compliment (MM).

Generation #1
Grandmother X Grandfather
MM X Mm

Generation #2
50% of children MM
50% of children Mm

50% probability that your mother/father is Mm
50% probability that your aunt/uncle is Mm

Mother X Father
50% Mm X MM

Aunt X Uncle
50% Mm X MM

Generation #3
50% probability of Mm mother X 50% probability of Mm you
0.5 X 0.5 = 0.25 or 25% Mm you

50% probability of Mm aunt X 50% probability of Mm cousin
0.5 X 0.5 = 0.25 or 25% Mm cousin

You X Cousin
25% Mm X 25% Mm

Generation #4
50% of eggs or sperm from Mm are m
50% of eggs or sperm from Mm are M

0.25 X 0.5 = 0.125 or 12.5% m egg or sperm

0.125 X 0.125 = 0.0156 or 1 in 64 chance your child will have the genetic defect mm

Now what if both of the common grandparents each carried only 2 genetic defects? Well, the probability would be 1/64 + 1/64 + 1/64 + 1/64 = 4/64 or 1 in 16. If you had 4 children then the probability that at least one of those would have a genetic defect is 1 in 4.

Are you willing to accept the odds of 25% (yes) and (75%) no that one of your four children has a genetic defect?
 
MustafaMc said:
Sister Skye has hinted at the scientific reasons for why marrying cousins is not a good idea. My profession is a cotton breeder and Masha'Allah I am somewhat knowledgeable about Mendelian genetics. I have worked out the probability of a child expressing a genetic defect (mm) carried by only one of their grandparents in heterozygous condition (Mm) while all the other grandparents and parents had the normal compliment (MM).

Generation #1
Grandmother X Grandfather
MM X Mm

Generation #2
50% of children MM
50% of children Mm

50% probability that your mother/father is Mm
50% probability that your aunt/uncle is Mm

Mother X Father
50% Mm X MM

Aunt X Uncle
50% Mm X MM

Generation #3
50% probability of Mm mother X 50% probability of Mm you
0.5 X 0.5 = 0.25 or 25% Mm you

50% probability of Mm aunt X 50% probability of Mm cousin
0.5 X 0.5 = 0.25 or 25% Mm cousin

You X Cousin
25% Mm X 25% Mm

Generation #4
50% of eggs or sperm from Mm are m
50% of eggs or sperm from Mm are M

0.25 X 0.5 = 0.125 or 12.5% m egg or sperm

0.125 X 0.125 = 0.0156 or 1 in 64 chance your child will have the genetic defect mm

Now what if both of the common grandparents each carried only 2 genetic defects? Well, the probability would be 1/64 + 1/64 + 1/64 + 1/64 = 4/64 or 1 in 16. If you had 4 children then the probability that at least one of those would have a genetic defect is 1 in 4.

Are you willing to accept the odds of 25% (yes) and (75%) no that one of your four children has a genetic defect?
Click to expand...

:sl: Yes I understood her point. Hence why I said, everything is still in Allah Ta'alas hands. IF he wants, there would be no such problem. And there are still people who don't marry in the family, yet they have kids with problems. I have a cousin with down syndrome and his parents are not cousins. I have cousins who have married and Alhamdulillah their children are fine. Both can be healthy and the child will have problems. So basically my point is, it can happen to anyone. Regardless of whether they marry a cousin or not. I still stand by what I said brother. You and sister skye are not wrong, but I know I'm not either. Does it mean we shouldn't marry at all? Cause you can have kids with problems, both ways. Nothing takes place, unless Ta'ala Wills it. Nothing happens without His permission. i know you all know this very well.

:w:
 
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Down syndrome isn't familial as much as it is maternal age dependant, also there is Robertsonian translocation (not inherited) there is a hispanic people predilection.. that being said, I am not arguing at all that it is in Allah swt's hands.. what I am arguing however is that 'it is better to marry family' many verses in the Quran speak of us being created in tribes and countries to learn from one another.. I don't think isolationism (not in the political sense) is the way to go.. I think somehow it is actually wrong to not integrate with other Muslims caucasian, yellow, green, red, chinese etc.... this deen isn't a one culture exclusive...

but if the dear sis loves her cousin then leave your worries behind and count on Allah swt..

:w:
 
:sl:

Sister I never said we shouldn't marry outside our family. If anything I'd rather marry outside my ethnicity....my point was...I don't see why we should be saying that its bad to marry their cousins....it's up to them. Kids will be born healthy or unhealthy, both ways. That's all :) lol. Ok well I'm done here now..

:w:
 
I never disagreed with your point.. I disagreed with 'better to marry in the family' my personal feelings are so long as both parties know what they are getting into, then may Allah swt bless their marriage..

:w:
 
sallam
i agree with what sister Skye says
so since that is done, no point in carrying on debating about it, right?
unless of course you lot love to debate then just carry on *silently sneaking away* :p
wassalam
 
No ones debating....well I wasn't. Just stating my opinion. And that it doesnt necessarily mean you are going to have defected children if you marry your cousin. I already know it can happen, never denied it. But don't think your safe if you dont marry one...itll happen to anyone. Ok its done now lol.

:sl:
 
Jazzy said:
I still stand by what I said brother. You and sister skye are not wrong, but I know I'm not either. Does it mean we shouldn't marry at all? Cause you can have kids with problems, both ways. Nothing takes place, unless Ta'ala Wills it. Nothing happens without His permission. i know you all know this very well.
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I understand exactly what you are saying. I certainly was not making the case to forbid something that Allah (swt) has not forbidden. I was just stating an example of genetic disorder problems that could arise from first cousins marrying.
 
^ i read somewhere that in very very few instances only does it affect the children if the parents are cousin... also i would like to add intermarrige happened in time of sahaba Fatima r.a. was married to her to her fathers cousin.... :)


Selising said:
But in some cases a cousin can become a wali. A cousin from mother's side (if I'm not mistaken) can become a wali.
Click to expand...

as far as i am aware any cousin of oppisate gender from maternal and paternal are ghair mahram and canot become wali...
 
:salamext:

But in some cases a cousin can become a wali. A cousin from mother's side (if I'm not mistaken) can become a wali.
Click to expand...

Care to explain How?!
 
haha peepz arguin here.... omgg ...
hey nowt wrong wid getin married wid ur kuzanz but iv also heard its beta not 2 koz ov da genetic probs n plus i also heard a hadith which says that its beta off not marryin kuzonz and try to know people from other tribes etc...(cnt find it.. read it from 'sahih bhukari' book so its authentic) but its up2 the person itself whether he/she wants 2 marry kuzan or not.. so easy n simple :)

peace out
peace in looool
 
Generation #2
50% of children MM
50% of children Mm

50% probability that your mother/father is Mm
50% probability that your aunt/uncle is Mm

Mother X Father
50% Mm X MM

Aunt X Uncle
50% Mm X MM

Generation #3
50% probability of Mm mother X 50% probability of Mm you
0.5 X 0.5 = 0.25 or 25% Mm you

50% probability of Mm aunt X 50% probability of Mm cousin
0.5 X 0.5 = 0.25 or 25% Mm cousin

You X Cousin
25% Mm X 25% Mm
Click to expand...

If there's a 25% chance of you having it, and a 25% chance of the cousin having it, than that means there's a 12.5% chance of BOTH having it.
Then the third generation will be:
*Based on 12.5% chance of both you and cousin carrying the defect and a 25% chance of both passing it on to your child 1/4th of 12.5% gives a 3.125% chance of the child having the defect.

However 3.125% chance based on the assumption that one of the grandparents do carry the gene! For all you know, neither of the grandparents carried it. So first you'd have to know the percentage of people carrying the genetic defect in the total population, and then take a 3.125% out of that number! To give a hypothetical example, say that there is a genetic defect that is carried in 10% of the population, then marrying your cousin out of that population gives you a chance of 0.3125% of having that defect! I'd say those are neglectable odds. Perhaps the problem with the pakistani community in England is that there is an abnormally high concentration of a certain genetic defect. If the figures of the article from whatsthepoint are correct that 1/10 people born from a relationship with first cousin is true, then that means the pakistani community carries that genetic defect for 300% of the population! (which is of course absurd and impossible, a population can have no more than 100%). If you're wondering what went wrong here (why you come out on 300%) then the answer is, that you have to repeat the %-calculation based on the gene being in the population for each in-law that comes into the picture. If you do that, you'll see that the problem in pakistan is a problem that won't be avoided by no longer marrying cousins. The whole population has a high percentages so even if they marry a non-cousin of that population the chances of child with genetic defect is still high nonetheless! Anyway, I do acknowledge that when the % in the population of the gene is low, then the chance of having it with your cousin is (slightly and neglectably) higher. However as the parameter gets higher (the percentage of the gene carried in the population) there is a turning point where you'll actually have better odds with your cousin as opposed to the rest of the population!

All that being said, in the end chance calculation is just an indication. In reality the events are not random but causal!
 
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i say its all qadr lol

whoevers halaal to marry then by all means marry.

dont worry to much about genetics, Allah is controlling everything.

and why is the fact that two healthy people can have deformed babies etc overlooked? i know many parents who married strangers yet their kids have autism etc and hearing defficiencies...


so see it this way, whats to happen shall happen. Place your trust in Allah and if a defficiency is found be patient, dont treat it like the worst thing, but be patient through it and pray for a cure !

Assalamu Alaikum
 
:salamext:

^ That was the closing line of this thread.
 
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