May I be a skeptic?

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Pygoscelis said:
No I'm not. That standard of morality is entirely within myself. And the wakko religious killer group's twisted sense of moralit is entirely within themselves. And it didn't come naturally I bet. I bet it took a holy book and some charismatic leader to get them there.
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Then if both your standards of morality come from within yourselves, what right do you have to be angry with such a group? How do you know that you are in the right when you stop them from killing? If your code of morality is entirely within yourself, I just don't see how you can expect anyone else to abide by it. How about slavery? The majority of the cultures in the history of the world have practiced slavery. It would never have been outlawed until people appealed to a standard of morality that is outside of themselves and their culture.
 
August said:
Then if both your standards of morality come from within yourselves, what right do you have to be angry with such a group?
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I'm within my right to be angry with any group for any reason. My emotions and judgments are my own :D

How do you know that you are in the right when you stop them from killing?
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Because that's my perception of right. I'm sure from their point of view I'm clearly in the wrong by stopping them from satisfying their God, etc.

If your code of morality is entirely within yourself, I just don't see how you can expect anyone else to abide by it.
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Most others happen to abide by it because they come from similar culture and have similar views. We enact laws based on these common views and force it on anybody who for whatever reason disagrees with our joint perception of right and wrong. Likewise many things I consider perfectly ok my society deems wrong, and I have to abide by the resulting laws (ie, laws against prostitution, laws against public nudity, smoking marijuana etc - which I see nothing at all wrong with).

Sometimes we change our minds. Such as your slavery example. Sometimes what we consider right and just changes. It isn't some appeal to a "higher power" that does this. God as depicted in the Bible is quite ok with slavery (likely reflecting the view of the times). He doesn't say its bad at all. He even tells you how to properly beat your slaves.
 
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Has any one other than me notice that powerkoala just dropped in, dumped his crap, and has not come back?
 
ranma1/2 said:
for which shows PA mentality.
First there is no proof.

Evidence on the other hand does exists.



For the sceptic evidence is necessary, for the believer evidence is not.
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Though I promised myself not to engage with some of the scatologists on the forum of which you are not only a club member but also a president, I must ask what proof have you exactly? And why can't you articulate yourself better than my 6 year old nephew?
Once you can not only read but translate to readers what you are trying to convey can you then come and pass judgement on other people's "mentality".. for starters I'd work on my grammar!...
I was offered a mod job today, which I respectfully declined, out of fear, I'd do some major house cleaning and oust some of you to kingdom come... take advantage of my not abusing a privilege offered by not talking about me or others in absentia!
 
There seems to be a selection of people who when presented with a problem, immediatly resort to some bon-hom attacks in leiu of dealing with the issue.

Postcounts dont make good debaters, they do make good spammers.

If someone cant answer a question or address a point in a reply, its a wasted post.

It's a good thing that the forum wont be turning into someones all singing-nondebating-ego house now.

I for one will definatly be modifying my posts to just agree wholeheartedly with Islam and not question anything for the fear of not waiting for someone to log on till i address a point.

Or something.
 
powerkoala said:
Mohammed's and Jesus's claims that they were God/Allah or heard God/Allah, are unsubstantiated.

Someone claimed to have read an Islamic word in a Kiwi fruit once, years ago. When you look at the clouds you see shapes, it's just imagination.

One test would be to get two people who hear God, keep them seperate, and see if they corroborate each other's claims. You would have to be VERY careful to check for hearing devices, or transmitters.

The rooms could be shielded for conventional radio signals. If they did corroborate, (A MIRACLE), then I would look for someother means as to how they communicated.
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Hearing/ speaking dreaming, imagining are all nice and so very human. Anyone can claim a miracle.. not everyone can bring forth a miracle. Most messengers took their miracles with them to the grave and it can go into the realms of "mythology" Prophet Mohammed PBUH' miracle still lives on "The Quran"
In order for you to make this challenge, and I am not sure what the challenge is or if there is one? I'd start by keeping your end of the deal.. which is study the book (Quran) in original tongue, compare to the hadith, which are the sayings of the prophet and there are volumes, as well as other works and then come dispute them... enlighten us as to their origin. You have to meet that challenge, linguistically, stylistically, exegetically, historically, cover all aspects in the Quran from the rhyme of the lyrics, to the power of its language, to the message it conveys, to its transcendence, to space in time in which some ayas of some suras were revealed.
It is really as simple as all that, if you want to get into the psychology as to why Islam not only lives on in this day and age but continues to grow.
Peace!
 
barney said:
I for one will definatly be modifying my posts to just agree wholeheartedly with Islam and not question anything for the fear of not waiting for someone to log on till i address a point.

Or something.
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Will that be the same day Shaitan starts an ice skate rental?
 
It's the day Westboro baptist church dress in leather hats and tutus and join the US Marine corps.
 
barnacle likes to confabulate. I am not sure if he has deluded himself in some defensive grandiosity that he actually has a point which the posters have prudently circumvented out of deficiency in their ability to debate . Perhaps it is all a case of his huffy and puffy self blowing tons of hot air off the wrong end, and the rest of us just can't stay in the room long enough to stomach it!
 
barney said:
There seems to be a selection of people who when presented with a problem, immediatly resort to some bon-hom attacks in leiu of dealing with the issue.

Postcounts dont make good debaters, they do make good spammers.

If someone cant answer a question or address a point in a reply, its a wasted post.

It's a good thing that the forum wont be turning into someones all singing-nondebating-ego house now.

I for one will definatly be modifying my posts to just agree wholeheartedly with Islam and not question anything for the fear of not waiting for someone to log on till i address a point.

Or something.
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Heh!
 
I gather the above is an exquisite debate and not at all a spam?-- strange world! :rollseyes
 
Just quoting myself in a response to yet another Bon-hom and lack of substance.

It was Irony, but i wasnt really expecting you to get that.

at risk of +1'ing, I''ll end here.
 
Thank G-D for your presence here barnacle, what would we do without your enlightenment? you are indeed one of the proud the few the elitist intelligentsia. Yeah you should stop here!.. seems that though I have a banality filter, the rest of the forum doesn't!
 
barney, just ignore Purest Ambrosia as the rest of us have learned to do. All he/she ever posts is personal attacks. Nothing of substance to the actual discussion. We had an interesting conversation going here. Don't feed the trolls.
 
It is really funny since none of my posts have addressed you or your conjoined twin barnacle -- they were in fact a reply to one who felt so free to discuss my "mentality" in my absence and the original poster.. are you begging for a come reply back to me post? or is this an attempt to broom up your scattered thoughts? I am just beside myself... you and all three of your alter egos have really done me in.
In fact please go put me on your Ig list!
 
Pygoscelis said:
Sometimes we change our minds. Such as your slavery example. Sometimes what we consider right and just changes. It isn't some appeal to a "higher power" that does this. God as depicted in the Bible is quite ok with slavery (likely reflecting the view of the times). He doesn't say its bad at all. He even tells you how to properly beat your slaves.
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No, the point isn't that only by appealing to God could slavery be ended, the point is that it was ended because people appealed to a standard of morality that is outside of themselves and overrides the cultural norms. I'm having a hard time believing that you believe in right and wrong at all, since everything is a matter of perspective.
 
Well we , (mostly) moved to a standard higher than "God". i use that term to describe the man-made gods of the worlds main religions.
I'm sure a creating force either has superior standards or no humanistic standards.

It's been a slow and hard won lesson, that we are still learning.
Hooray for progress and shedding dusty ancient standards of intolerance and brutality.
 

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