McCain group sending anti-Islan DVDs to homes

[Keltoi]

LOL and hitler use to love jews ;D

What does it mean to be anti-Islamic to you?

 

[nocturnal]

The orgnizations and individuals responsible for this sort of callous misinformation may not be directly under the McCain Campaign's authority. They may well just turn out to be a group of right wing bigots who share McCain's ideology (or perhaps a more extreme version of it), and recognise that playing on people's fears about terrorism is the only real way they have of influencing the choice of the electorate come November.

But i think it won't entirely work. Remember that it's been 5 years since the occupation of Iraq, most Americans, even some of the most inveterate Republicans realize that Iraq never really posed any threat to the US and it's interests, nor did it certainly every have any WMDs. The economy is the central issue in this election, and i have serious misgivings about whether the dissemination of factually distorted Islamophobic dvds will in any way negate the lead Obama has in the polls. I doubt it.

 

[nocturnal]

Neither McCain or Obama are "anti-Islamic", the issue is terrorism. Obama wants to focus our military resources into Afghanistan and if necessary ignore Pakistan's sovereignty in order to capture or kill Bin Laden and/or Zawahiri. McCain wants to follow the strategy used in Iraq, which is to make friends that will turn against terrorists eventually. That is what happened in Iraq in large degree. The people themselves exposed and rid themselves of the Al-Qaeda elements in their provinces and towns. McCain believes this same strategy will work in Pakistan and Afghanistan. That is the main foreign policy disagreement between the two.

Obama claims that he essentially wants to use "economic aid" to Pakistan, as an incentive to lure the people away from affiliation with the insurgents in th tribal areas.

It is the most insulting posture any politician could adopt. He is in effect, telling the Pakistani people that the aggrieved "Islamist" elements in the tribal belt should have nothing to do with mainstream, moderate Pakistani society. They too are Pakistani, they have every right to defend their sovereignty and struggle for their ideals, which i should point out, are not extremist or subversive as western propaganda is keen to point out. They are not against development, and international investment. The facts must be laid out clean, they don't want Pakistan to be used as a proxy, or as a facilitator to assist americans in launching their murderous campaigns in Afghanistan. Is it wrong to demand that? is it wrong to demand sustained political and economic development within the parameters of Islam?

Zardari and Gilani must resist Washington's hegemony and engage in talks with the leaders in the tribal regions.

 

[Keltoi]

Obama claims that he essentially wants to use "economic aid" to Pakistan, as an incentive to lure the people away from affiliation with the insurgents in th tribal areas.

It is the most insulting posture any politician could adopt. He is in effect, telling the Pakistani people that the aggrieved "Islamist" elements in the tribal belt should have nothing to do with mainstream, moderate Pakistani society. They too are Pakistani, they have every right to defend their sovereignty and struggle for their ideals, which i should point out, are not extremist or subversive as western propaganda is keen to point out. They are not against development, and international investment. The facts must be laid out clean, they don't want Pakistan to be used as a proxy, or as a facilitator to assist americans in launching their murderous campaigns in Afghanistan. Is it wrong to demand that? is it wrong to demand sustained political and economic development within the parameters of Islam?

Zardari and Gilani must resist Washington's hegemony and engage in talks with the leaders in the tribal regions.

Well, all that largely depends upon the level and support these tribal areas are giving terrorist and Taliban elements. If these regions refuse to divorce themselves and/or are actively supporting these elements they become enemies of the United States and the new Afghan government. If the Pakistani government cannot or will not oppose these elements, then that government becomes meaningless in terms of sovereignty and/or becomes an outright enemy of the United States.

Of course neither country wants to be in that latter category. That is why it is very important for the Pakistani government or the Americans to either end this terrorist safe haven or extremely isolate that region.

 

[doorster]

What does it mean to be anti-Islamic to you?

I don't know about him but to me it means to change their rulers at will, kill them when fancy takes or lock them up without trial and chuck away the key

 

[nocturnal]

But that's exactly it, Obama hasn't said anything about hating Muslims nor loving them, so obviously it shows how much more unbigoted he is. He doesn't focus on people's race, religion, or colour but he strives to bring Americans to a better standard of living.

Why should it have to be made clear that Obama hates or loves Muslims when we hardly make up that much of the American population? It's not important to know whether he supports us or not, and come on if he were to vocally say that the chances of him winning the election would be slim to none.

McCain, as you can tell, is a bitter old man who's been chasing the presidency for quite a while now. And then here comes this young, smart, black man taking it away from him. He's desperate, and the republicans are not publicly admitting that they're losing the election but they're sure as hell saying it behind closed doors.

I agree with Obama's policies, I don't care about whether he's hiding or being vocal about his hatred for Muslims because that's the last thing that should worry me. What I'm worried about is whether I'll be able to keep on affording to go to college, whether I'll be covered by my job for health insurance, and whether my taxes aren't going to some greedy corporate rich guys who do nothing but play with our money (which McSame was all for!).

I'm just advising everyone that when going to the polls you pick someone who you think you'll be able to put up with for 4 years.

Thats a ridiculous load of over-simplified nonsense. You're literally taking at face value, everything the Obama campaign is saying. Fine, i accknowledge that living in the US, his policies on economic reform appeal to you. But get your priorities right, and don't ramble on like some vacuous simpleton. As a Muslim, what is the most pressing international issue and what does Obama say about it?

The most pressing international issue, is not Iraq or Afghanistan, it is the nucleus from which these wars erupted; Palestine.

Obama, has categorically stated that Israel will be the US's strongest ally, Jerusalem will be it's "undivided" capital, and that he will pleadge unconditional political and military support for the murder, occupation, starvation etc all going on in the occupied territories. Expect to see further endorsement of Israeli policies by the US in the shape of vetoes at the UN. We are talking about Al Aqsa here, the third most sacred site in Islam.

Look at how hypocritic and evil they are, that in all the presidential debates, even the vice-presidential debate, they always extol Israel, glorify it, assert in the strongest terms their support for the zionist regime. Did you ever hear the word "Palestine" even once? the word "justice"? Did they ever talk about the Human Rights of the Palestinian people? about the brutal sanctions and embargo on Gaza? the lack of basic even the most rudimentary medical supplies? not once. Did they ever talk about Somalia? the killing that they sponsored through their ethiopian proxies? the massacres of civilians? the overthrow of the Islamic Courts Union which after 17 years of anarchy in Somalia, and in 6 months of their rule brought peace, security, growth, stability, investment, international remittance etc.

What was their fault? that they rejected the odious notion of becoming a US client regime? and they were labelled as Al Qa'eda accomplices by the US.

Im sorry to say this, but despite all that if you are still only looking at your own narrow interest as the basis of this election, then not only are you a pathetic and mornonic narcissist, but a treacherous individual who is undeserving of anything.

 

[جوري]

The only thing that is "very telling" is your reaction to it.

my reaction is expected to an incessant stimulus, that won't be happy until it forgathers Muslims into a likely camp under the guise of 'terrorism'

Partly because in my scenario I could think of a straightforward and plausible reason why somebody would take the photograph and in your attempt to belatedly grasp at straws, I cannot. Mostly, though, because I did the minimal online exploration necessary to find out what the response of Mrs Lopez to finding the DVD in her letterbox actually was. But that isn't really the point, is it?

I believe in one of your quotes, she professes that she is not deluding herself that she's 'not stupid. There are definitely radical Islamic cells all over the world'

Just because she didn't like it being forced down her throat in the form of a DVD, doesn't mean this isn't her general belief.

Not really different to Hitler's Germany, many people disliked Hitler's regime but went with it anyway, and believed the stereo types of Jews!

History has a way of repeating itself even if the minor nuances change.. although I am almost certain of your response to this, to which you are entitled. As I am to mine!

cheers

 

[truemuslim]

Ohhh i got that dvd, didnt watch it but i thoguth it was islamic......................

oh well i never supported mccain (doesnt mean i like obama tho)
hope they both get shot with one bull straight thru the head, nd at the same time, america blows up nd burns down. :Evil: .......unfortunoutly wishes dont come true

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

What does it mean to be anti-Islamic to you?

supporting those who kill muslims ie israel etc

 

[doorster]

Thats a ridiculous load of over-simplified nonsense. You're literally taking at face value, everything the Obama campaign is saying. Fine, i accknowledge that living in the US, his policies on economic reform appeal to you. But get your priorities right, and don't ramble on like some vacuous simpleton. As a Muslim, what is the most pressing international issue and what does Obama say about it?

The most pressing international issue, is not Iraq or Afghanistan, it is the nucleus from which these wars erupted; Palestine.

Obama, has categorically stated that Israel will be the US's strongest ally, Jerusalem will be it's "undivided" capital, and that he will pleadge unconditional political and military support for the murder, occupation, starvation etc all going on in the occupied territories. Expect to see further endorsement of Israeli policies by the US in the shape of vetoes at the UN. We are talking about Al Aqsa here, the third most sacred site in Islam.

Look at how hypocritic and evil they are, that in all the presidential debates, even the vice-presidential debate, they always extol Israel, glorify it, assert in the strongest terms their support for the zionist regime. Did you ever hear the word "Palestine" even once? the word "justice"? Did they ever talk about the Human Rights of the Palestinian people? about the brutal sanctions and embargo on Gaza? the lack of basic even the most rudimentary medical supplies? not once. Did they ever talk about Somalia? the killing that they sponsored through their ethiopian proxies? the massacres of civilians? the overthrow of the Islamic Courts Union which after 17 years of anarchy in Somalia, and in 6 months of their rule brought peace, security, growth, stability, investment, international remittance etc.

What was their fault? that they rejected the odious notion of becoming a US client regime? and they were labelled as Al Qa'eda accomplices by the US.

Im sorry to say this, but despite all that if you are still only looking at your own narrow interest as the basis of this election, then not only are you a pathetic and mornonic narcissist, but a treacherous individual who is undeserving of anything.

I say thank God for you but you be prepared for infractions, nasty PMs even a ban now. they don't like you to speak your mind here unless you are anti Muslim or a deviant then they cant do enough for you.

pro Muslim? forget about it (you've got to sneak it in)

 

[nocturnal]

I say thank God for you but you be prepared for infractions, nasty PMs even a ban now. they don't like you to speak your mind here unless you are anti Muslim or a deviant then they cant do enough for you.

pro Muslim? forget about it (you've got to sneak it in)

It would be in everyone's interest for the moderators not to crack down on legitimate religious/political exchanges. Engaging with each other is one of the few ways we can discuss our differences, ideological beliefs etc.

 

[Gator]

Just a little clarification. Obama backtracked from the "undivided Jerusalem remarks and said that Jerusalem should be on the table and result in a compromise both sides could live with. He is not against any plan that has both countries sharing soverignty to parts of Jerusalem which is acceptable to both.

In this political climate that's about as good as your going to get.

Thanks.

 

[nocturnal]

Obama did not backtrack. He was acutely congnizant of what he was stating when he made that speech to AIPAC and it's influential functionaries.

What later appeared as him recanting that statement was a political smokescreen; in effect him trying to pacify the Palestinians, and the borader Muslim electorate. Obama is a shrewd politician, with magnificent oratory capabilities. But we must distinguish between genuine Mid-East policy perpetuation and political deception.

 

[nocturnal]

By the way, im not trying to foment a sense of doom and gloom on this forum about the US elections, Obama and the possible ramifications for the Middle East. What i am trying to say is that we have to be objective in terms of how we percieve American elections. They should always be viewed in my opinion, in a historical as well as contemporary context. The US has always historically sought to neutralize the prospect of Muslim coutries uniting, because they are conscious of the fact that this will undermine its strategic interests and hegemony of the Muslim world and it's resources which it controls through subservient lackeys occupying all the prominent Arab and Muslim governmental positions.

Republicans, especially this administration, have been disastrous for world peace and cultural cohesion, but this does not mean that Obama and the Democrats should be seen as a panacea to all the Ummah's problems. What i think we need to do, as Muslims, is realize that we cannot rely on anyone else to solve our problems, we have to look at ourselves introspectively. We should not also endorse the policies of those who subvert Islam and the Qur'an to justify attrocities committed against innocent people.

 

[MartyrX]

My father got this in his newspaper a few Sundays back. IF McCain is behind this it did nothing in this state as he seems to be pulling out.

 

[doorster]

What i think we need to do, as Muslims, is realize that we cannot rely on anyone else to solve our problems, we have to look at ourselves introspectively. We should not also endorse the policies of those who subvert Islam and the Qur'an to justify atrocities committed against innocent people.

masha'Allah! hits nail right on the head Again!

 

[Gator]

Obama did not backtrack. He was acutely congnizant of what he was stating when he made that speech to AIPAC and it's influential functionaries...

Let me be clear again to all reading this thread.

Barak Obama is not opposed to splitting Jerusalem for an Israeli/Palestinian peace deal, if its what both parites agree.

Thanks.

 

[Trumble]

I don't think we need worry about a McCain victory any more, folks. Surely this;

Palin guilty of abusing her power

will cause terminal damage. Not so much because of what Palin might, or might not, have done as because McCain's judgement must seriously be called into question for picking her in the first place. If you can't even pick a decent VP candidate, what chance is there of getting anything else right?

 

[north_malaysian]

I'm impressed when McCain corrected an ignorant lady when she said that Obama is an Arab. An Arab?:giggling: She's been listening to lots of craps from the neo-cons...;D

But he also got booed from the people when he said cool things about Obama... what a freaking crowds...

 

[north_malaysian]

I don't think we need worry about a McCain victory any more, folks. Surely this;

Palin guilty of abusing her power

will cause terminal damage. Not so much because of what Palin might, or might not, have done as because McCain's judgement must seriously be called into question for picking her in the first place. If you can't even pick a decent VP candidate, what chance is there of getting anything else right?

Imagine if McCain becomes the President and died just days after being a President (he's OLD)... that Palin would be a President....and USA would be ****ed!:hmm: