Message from Muslim Council of Britain

[Scimitar]

what he said

for the record ayan333 - I didn't "take your words out of context" - I just recorrected you on a fundamental point.

THhis is the point I am making as a correction to your post - Christmas is the celebration of the birth of the messiah

It is not the celebration of a son of god. The fact remains that Isa AS brithday is unanimously celebrated on the same day all over the world, bit not all Christian denominations believe that he was son of God. Period. It would help if you knew of the nuances which separate Christians into their sects - same way us Muslims are also separated into sects.

Scimi

 

[ayan333]

Common ground by compromising? Thats what this counsil is doing. لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ

The card Glo put up is definitely suggesting that Islam is totally fine with it.

Maybe my words sound a bit harsh (cyber) but I still believe that it shouldnt be encouraged. And yes someone did wish someone a Merry christmas which is why I made that point. (Read prior posts.)

Again, my point was that it shouldnt be encouraged. Its better to be safe then sorry especially when it comes to Deen. You dont have to rain on their parade but to wish them a happy celebration when you know that it is displeasing to Allah, is just wrong.

Scimi
I do know the different Christian denominations which is why I said either/or.

And regardless, the celebration is one that Allah is Indeed displeased with. It doesnt matter if its his birthday or not, the fact is they worship him, either by the belief that he is the son of god or god himself. It did not originate as a cultural holiday, its a religious one...unless im mistaken. And if he isnt worshipped then I must be just be really mistaken. But im pretty sure that he is worshipped which is why I im even writing all this.


Again, I apologize if I have come across as rude but I just dont sugar coat anything. And sometimes plp are just too sensitive.

May Allah grant us all success.

Signing out now, I havnt been on here for a couple years, glad things are still moving along.

Good day.

 

[faithandpeace]

Assalamu alaikum. I see this public message as potential kufr (disbelief). A Muslim is within his rights to indicate that non-Muslims have a right to practice their religion yet what this appears to be doing is encouraging non-Muslims to practice a religion other than Islam. Until this organization satisfactorily clarifies this statement in line with Islamic principles, Muslims should reject the credibility of both the message and the organization that produced it. Islam is not a game and I don't think we as Muslims should be taking it lightly when "Islamic" organizations appear to compromise Islamic beliefs just to appease non-believers. Christmas contains a variety of forms of shirk. Muslims promoting others to celebrate a holiday containing shirk is encouraging shirk. Shirk is kufr and when a Muslim does it they risk becoming a murtad. We need to stop watering down our deen just to appear less threatening to non-Muslims.

 

[glo]

Christmas has gotten way out of control.
Yeah ban commercial Christmas, it drives me nuts.

The commercialisation of Christmas is something that can also be seen to blame. Here I was thinking Christmas presents were for the kids, and the adults knew better... these days, even adults are like children, complaining that so and so didnt get them a xmas pressie...

I hear ya', brothers. And I totally agree!

Every year I wish that Christmas was just a quiet religious affair for people who want to go to church to celebrate the birth of Jesus. But sadly it has become so much more than that ...

However, if I'm honest I think at least some of that is to do with Christianity hijacking what was originally a pagan festival. That's what contributed to people celebrating the festival for all kinds of reasons other than the Christian one.
There's a lesson to learn there!! ^o)

Did you hear about the clergy you was invited into a school recently to speak to the children about Christmas and got into trouble for daring to tell them that Santa was based on a real-life 4th century saint (St Nicholaus).
The headlines in the tabloids read "Vicar tells children as young as five that Father Christmas doesn't exist" and "SANTA KILLER - Grinch priest makes children weep"

Christmas is the celebration of the birth of the messiah

Scimi, I like what you said about Christmas celebrating the birth of the Messiah.
I have always thought that for that reason Muslims should have very little problem with Christmas (as opposed to Easter, of course)
Of course, over the years Muslims have told me otherwise ... but I wonder about it every year.

At least I know we share the joy in the fact that the Messiah come into the world and that he will come again. :statisfie

 

[Abz2000]

Salamz, it's obvious the queen and her athest friends in Downing Street, thread needle street, and the whitehouse want to ban anything with any connotations of faith and turn their countries into "secular" / "neutered" countries (as demonstrated in France (school hijabs and crosses) and uk (queen's christmas kjv speech - faith out-sports in) California's church of satan, and hasina's "thear ij no relizion in bhangladhesh" statements.

So what better way to omit the mention of anything relating to faith than to blame it on the people of God they feel most intimidated by and further reap political dirty dividends while causing division?

Lol check out YouTube "msnbc one nation under God" omission and the complaints it drew.

Also George orwell's prediction in 1984 60+ years ago. Poor guy got arrested for not finding anything other than "god" to rhyme in his poem.

Anyways, that mcb message reeks of inferiority complex and an outward display of fear and submission to atheist/satanist propaganda.
They've often played the apologetic, so eager to please, yes man role in the recent years.

Maybe next year they'll have a dazzlingly bright tree on top of their office just to project the "moderate and inclusive" image they seek.

I believe it would've been better if they hadn't spent thousands on a stupid useless p.r leaflet showing such weakness, and instead given a more "here's where we stand, read the book of Allah for proof if you like" invitation.

Christmas is a good time for Muslims to attack atheist ideology in countries which claim to be Christian.


20 Jun 2011 - The video of the kids saying the allegiance goes from "one nation" ... to expunge God from our national pledge of allegiance. ... It doesn't suprise me that MSNBC left out "under God" in ...


الَّذينَ أُخرِجوا مِن دِيٰرِهِم بِغَيرِ حَقٍّ إِلّا أَن يَقولوا رَبُّنَا اللَّهُ ۗ وَلَولا دَفعُ اللَّهِ النّاسَ بَعضَهُم بِبَعضٍ لَهُدِّمَت صَوٰمِعُ وَبِيَعٌ وَصَلَوٰتٌ وَمَسٰجِدُ يُذكَرُ فيهَا اسمُ اللَّهِ كَثيرًا ۗ وَلَيَنصُرَنَّ اللَّهُ مَن يَنصُرُهُ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَقَوِىٌّ عَزيزٌ

English-YusufAli translation
______________________________

(They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, \"our Lord is Allah\".
Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will).

Oh Allah, please destroy and frustrate the navish tricks of those who abuse and harass us in kafir countries, then persecute, murder and torture us via their proxy munafiq tyrants in Muslim countries to which we emigrate just to get away from them and practice our faith without let or hinder.

A good time to watch the lion the witch and the wardrobe, remember, it's almost 100 years since khilafah and it's still snowing.

 

[observer]

I'm an atheist and I love Christmas! Yes, people can go overboard but that can happen with anything. Yes, companies try and ruin it by making it start early every year but Christmas is what we make it.

Think about it, at no other time of year do so many people make such an effort to be with family and friends. It's easy to say "Well, it shouldn't be like that" but with families spread out around countries (and further) it's difficult to all get together. Christmas reminds us that we should try.

Any festival which concentrates on family and making ourselves happy must be good!

And I really don't understand those who say a muslim shouldn't say "merry Christmas" to someone. It doesn't mean you condone it, or think Jesus is the son of god - it just means "enjoy your special time".

 

[sister herb]

What came to mind from this thread; as Christmas has became more and more commercial holiday, we muslims should be careful that our holidays wouldn´t get similar destiny. Where I live is only tiny islamic community but you others whose live in islamic countries or countries where muslim population is larger, have you found that similar could happens (or has already happened) in our religion? Does companies try to change our holidays like "buy more and more special foods, gifts and decorations"- festivals?

 

[angelix]

i am surprised when reading this

 

[Muhaba]

No, it is not right to celebrate Christmas or any other unislamic religious holiday. First of all, we don't even celebrate Prophet Muhammad (SAW) birthday and doing so is considered a bida' (innovation) so how can it be encouraged to celebrate another Prophet's birthday? Second, we have no proof that Christmas is in fact Jesus' birthday. Third, celebrating it would put adoration for Christian customs, especially in children who are very easily affected by such things. We the Muslims have our own unique identity and holidays and it is not right to engage in any activity that weaks the Muslim identity. It's bad enough that all over the muslim world, even in shopping centers owned by muslims, Christmas trees and Christmas decorations are placed for sale to nonmuslims, so much so that there seem to be more Christmas related items in shopping centers than there were eid related ones during the eid holidays! This will definitely affect young minds. Surely, during eid nonmuslim shopping malls in nonmuslim countries didn't have on display eid related decorations all over. then why should there be Christmas related decorations and large christmas trees on display in muslim shopping centers in muslim countries?
If nonmuslims aren't celebrating muslim holidays then why are muslims being encouraged to celebrate Christian holidays?

 

[Muhaba]

I'm an atheist and I love Christmas! Yes, people can go overboard but that can happen with anything. Yes, companies try and ruin it by making it start early every year but Christmas is what we make it.

Think about it, at no other time of year do so many people make such an effort to be with family and friends. It's easy to say "Well, it shouldn't be like that" but with families spread out around countries (and further) it's difficult to all get together. Christmas reminds us that we should try.

Any festival which concentrates on family and making ourselves happy must be good!

And I really don't understand those who say a muslim shouldn't say "merry Christmas" to someone. It doesn't mean you condone it, or think Jesus is the son of god - it just means "enjoy your special time".

Have you said 'eid mubarak' to anyone (in real life? If not, then please don't say that muslims should go around saying 'merry Christmas.' It makes you into a hypocrite.

 

[Independent]

Have you said 'eid mubarak' to anyone (in real life? If not, then please don't say that muslims should go around saying 'merry Christmas.' It makes you into a hypocrite.

If you are a Muslim living in a Christian country, you can't help but be aware of Christmas.

If you a Christian living in a Muslim country, you can't help but notice Eid.

Less 'hypocrisy'. More 'demography'.

 

[Muhaba]

^so you haven't. Did you greet any members here with eid Mubarak during eid holiday on here?

 

[Independent]

^so you haven't. Did you greet any members here with eid Mubarak during eid holiday on here?

You have changed the subject. An online forum is not a country and it has different conventions. For instance, when they are online many people seem to feel it's ok to be far ruder than they are in real life.

I can't remember exactly - was there a thread where people wished each other Happy Eid? If so, a very small percentage of the membership did so, not including me.

 

[Muhaba]

If you are a Muslim living in a Christian country, you can't help but be aware of Christmas.

If you a Christian living in a Muslim country, you can't help but notice Eid.

Less 'hypocrisy'. More 'demography'.

I didn't ask you whether you were aware of eid. I asked whether you greeted muslims (or even nonmuslims) with the eid greetings. If you don't and then still expect muslims to greet muslims or nonmuslims with the Christian holiday greetings, that makes you a hypocrite.

 

[Muhaba]

You have changed the subject. An online forum is not a country and it has different conventions. For instance, when they are online many people seem to feel it's ok to be far ruder than they are in real life.

I can't remember exactly - was there a thread where people wished each other Happy Eid? If so, a very small percentage of the membership did so, not including me.

I didn't change the subject at all. but you tried to. see my post above.

You didn't even notice that there was a thread with eid greetings?!! I'll bet you didn't even notice when there was an eid holiday. There were two eid holidays about 3 months apart. Do you know anything about the eid holidays and why and when they are celebrated? Considering you spend so much time on this forum it's strange you don't try to learn about these things and then expect muslims to learn about and celebrate Christmas! Such double standards amaze me.

 

[Independent]

I didn't ask you whether you were aware of eid. I asked whether you greeted muslims (or even nonmuslims) with the eid greetings. If you don't and then still expect muslims to greet muslims or nonmuslims with the Christian holiday greetings, that makes you a hypocrite.

a) I only became aware of the festival since joining this forum. And, having not lived in Muslim country, I'm still not sure of whether people greet each other in the street in the same way as people do for Christmas.
b) I have recently moved to a new country where as yet I haven't met any Muslims to wish them Happy Eid, Happy Christmas or even Happy Monday. But thanks for asking.

 

[glo]

Independent, the usual greeting at Eid is "Eid Mubarak". (Or Ramadan Mubarak during Ramadan or Jummah Mubarak on Fridays)

Whenever I greet my Muslims neighbours with any of these they always respond with pleasant surprise and gratitude. That alone is a good enough reason to greet people on their special occasions - to share the joy and to show solidarity and unity.

It's a no-brainer really if you want to build communities. :statisfie

 

[Independent]

You didn't even notice that there was a thread with eid greetings?!! I'll bet you didn't even notice when there was an eid holiday. There were two eid holidays about 3 months apart. Do you know anything about the eid holidays and why and when they are celebrated? Considering you spend so much time on this forum it's strange you don't try to learn about these things and then expect muslims to learn about and celebrate Christmas! Such double standards amaze me.

Just noticed your double post before my last reply.

You really are determined to take objection to, and indeed to be objectionable, about anything and everything. I don't care who learns about Christmas, it wasn't my question. In fact I personally don't like anniversaries of any kind and I am notorious for forgetting everybody's birthday including my own.

But Christians in Christian countries are no more 'hypocrites' for being unaware of Eid than Muslims in Muslim countries are for knowing little about Christmas. That's really all i have to say. Not very complicated, not worth the excitable response, and not worth talking about any further. Although you probably will.

 

[Muhaba]

a) I only became aware of the festival since joining this forum. And, having not lived in Muslim country, I'm still not sure of whether people greet each other in the street in the same way as people do for Christmas.
b) I have recently moved to a new country where as yet I haven't met any Muslims to wish them Happy Eid, Happy Christmas or even Happy Monday. But thanks for asking.

Well, it would be courteous to greet Muslims on Muslim holidays, especially when you interact with Muslims here, before you try to make Muslims celebrate Christian holidays and greet Christians with 'merry christmas'. If you aren't aware of Muslim holidays or greetings, then you could do a google search of Muslim holidays and greetings and then greet Muslims at the time of the Muslim holidays. This way you would be extending a hand of friendliness. If you simply come out and say 'hey muslims, you should celebrate Christmas with us and greet us on christmas' without having the courtesy to learn about muslim holidays and greet muslims on muslim holidays first, then don't be surprised if you get a defensive reaction.

 

[ardianto]

Where I live is only tiny islamic community but you others whose live in islamic countries or countries where muslim population is larger, have you found that similar could happens (or has already happened) in our religion?

Eid sale? Eid promo?. Yes!

Does companies try to change our holidays like "buy more and more special foods, gifts and decorations"- festivals?

If the companies offer Eid sale or Eid promo, it's because demand from consumers is high. Muslims consumers want to celebrate Eid with new goods, like new clothes, new furniture, even new car!. Companies just respond this demand. Without offer "buy more!" consumers will still buy more.

Not different than Christmas sale or Christmas promo.