Middle East Influence in Bosnia

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According to the 1991 census, Bosnia and Herzegovina had a population of 4,354,911. Ethnically, 43.7% were Bosniaks, 31.3% Serbs, and 17.3% Croats, with 5.5% declaring themselves Yugoslavs.

also these facts are ethnic based. religiously Muslims made up over 60%. i know serbs who are muslim and muslim croats and muslim yugoslavs. ethnicity was not the point, religion was.
 
the serbs haad the entir military under their control and all the bosian muslims had were pictch forks.... how can a rock or a pitch fork equal bombs and tanks..... look at palestine and tell me how the muslims who out numbered the jews are losing so bad today......
 
According to the 1991 census, Bosnia and Herzegovina had a population of 4,354,911. Ethnically, 43.7% were Bosniaks, 31.3% Serbs, and 17.3% Croats, with 5.5% declaring themselves Yugoslavs.

also these facts are ethnic based. religiously Muslims made up over 60%. i know serbs who are muslim and muslim croats and muslim yugoslavs. ethnicity was not the point, religion was.

Sorry I should have quoted the next line

According to the 1991 census, Bosnia and Herzegovina had a population of 4,354,911. Ethnically, 43.7% were Bosniaks, 31.3% Serbs, and 17.3% Croats, with 5.5% declaring themselves Yugoslavs.

In Bosnia and Herzegovina, there is a strong correlation between ethnic identity and religion because 88% of Croats are Roman Catholics, 90% of Bosniaks practice Islam, and 93% of Serbs are Orthodox Christians.

According to 2000 data from the CIA World Factbook, Bosnia and Herzegovina is ethnically 48% Bosniak, 37.1% Serb, 14.3% Croat, 0.6% other.​
 
no may arugment is not nonsense. the west needed to remove all communist influence in the region, ince the soviets collapsed they wanted to aviod the scenario where eastern europe would gravitate towards yugo, they were are slavs for the most part and economically there were viable. in 1980s within external meddling yugo started to fall aprt and then descend into war what is what the west wanted and needed so that these countries would look west, not east. it makes perect strategic sense.

What Communist influence was left? None in Yugoslavia. Why would the Eastern Europeans gravitate towards the bankrupt incompetent and corrupt Yugoslav regime? The Eastern Europeans begged to be let into the EU. What did Serbia et al have to offer compared to Germany?

The West did not need to meddle in Yugoslavia nor did they need to create problems - Yugoslavs have been murdering each other for generations.

Look East? To what? The Albanian model?
 
If you go to this lovley site it clerly demonstartes that Bosnia had a 60% Muslim population, I dont know why you screw you facts...

BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA: Population = 3,971,813 Capital = Sarajevo; Area = 51,129 sq. km.
Muslim 60.06%, Christian 35.0% (Protestant 0.64%), non-religious/other 4,93%, Jewish 0.01%


http://www.hfe.org/_old/resource/aids/eurol1.htm
 
You are not understanding my argument by the time that these countries needed to look somehwere else yugo was faling apart because of the external meddling. but during the 1950s to 1970s it could have offered them hope. external meddling ensured that eastern europe would not go to the non aligned movement and go to the west. if you were more oopen to listening instead of trying to prove how smart you are you woud understand my argument as it is very logical and strategically very possible, my professor understand it. i will try and find a copy of my paper i wrote on this of which i got a very nice mark.
 
According to http://www.worldchristiandatabase.org

MUSLIMS IN BOSNIA (2005)

* Bosniaks (2,286,284)
* Vlach Gypsies (153,194)
* Rumelian Turks (46,286)
* Balkan Gypsies (26,935)
* Arabs (26,514)
* Serb (21,043)
* Other Turks (12,500)
* Bulgars (168)
* Others (11,448)

TOTAL: 2,584,371 (61.41% of population)
 
:sl:

I think Bosnian Muslim have all the right in the world to complain.

What happened in Bosnia?
The people voted for indenpendence using a democratic method. If one considers this, then the west, which advocates democray, should've supported an independent unified Bosnia all the way. The embargo which left the Bosnian Muslims without as many weapons as the Serb aggresors, didn't exactly help.

The US supported Bosnia, since the struggle was between a democraticly elected goverment and aggresors that didn't accept the elections and intruded on a sovereign state. However, Bill Clinton stated in his autobiography that his support for Bosnia was hard to maintain, since European countries like France and Germany hated to see a Muslim country in the heart of Europe and supported the Serb cause and so he had to compromise. This is what Bill Clinton said himself!

As for the situation today, which someone asked about, I can tell you how it is in my home village.

This is what happened in my village, called Dubrave, just some months after the war:

M. Nyeberg: UNHCR is extremely alarmed over the latest reports of rising ethnic tension in the Banja Luka area. Over the last 4 days, we have witnessed a worrying situation develop in the village of Dubrave near Gradiska 30 Km North of Banja Luka. We have reports of at least 4 evictions of Muslim families from their homes. There are also reports of a number of abandoned Muslim houses being damaged by explosions.
http://www.nato.int/ifor/trans/t960322a.htm

The problem, as you can see, is that Serbs have taken Muslim houses after ethnically cleansing the place. So my father recently got his house back.
The same, however, is happening in Sarajevo, for instance, where Muslims have taken Serb houses.

As for the "Saudi influence", well I think that's positive, since they generally have the right 'aqeedah and manhaj.
 
I think Bosnian Muslim have all the right in the world to complain.

Well there is not a lot of surprise there. Can you think of any situation anywhere in the world today where you do not think that the Muslims have all the right in the world to complain?

What happened in Bosnia?
The people voted for indenpendence using a democratic method. If one considers this, then the west, which advocates democray, should've supported an independent unified Bosnia all the way. The embargo which left the Bosnian Muslims without as many weapons as the Serb aggresors, didn't exactly help.

Actually the West has supported a unified democratic Bosnia all the way. You may not have noticed by Bosnia is full of NATO troops specifically there to make sure that Bosnia remains a united and democratic country.

However, I think this policy is foolish. If Croats, Serbs and Muslims cannot live together in Yugoslavia they cannot live together in Bosnia. Just as the Bosniaks are entitled to exercise their right to self determination, so too, I think, are the Croat and Serb Bosnians. Divide the province. Reunite the pieces with whomever they want to reunite with.

The US supported Bosnia, since the struggle was between a democraticly elected goverment and aggresors that didn't accept the elections and intruded on a sovereign state.

Whether Bosnia was a sovereign state or not is debateable, but let's accept that as the US seemed to.

However, Bill Clinton stated in his autobiography that his support for Bosnia was hard to maintain, since European countries like France and Germany hated to see a Muslim country in the heart of Europe and supported the Serb cause and so he had to compromise. This is what Bill Clinton said himself!

Where does Clinton say anything so stupid? The Germans in particular fell over themselves to support the Croats - the Croats being Catholics and having close ties to Austria and Germany at that time being ruled by a party that had strong ties to the Austrians and the CSU - a Bavarian Catholic Party.

The problem, as you can see, is that Serbs have taken Muslim houses after ethnically cleansing the place. So my father recently got his house back.
The same, however, is happening in Sarajevo, for instance, where Muslims have taken Serb houses.

Which is morally right and just but is a waste of time I think. If the West ought to do anything, it ought to give everyone large sums of money on condition they give up the right to return home and partition Bosnia into three ethnically pure pieces. If the Bosnians cannot live together in Yugoslavia they cannot live together in Bosnia.

As for the "Saudi influence", well I think that's positive, since they generally have the right 'aqeedah and manhaj.

I doubt most Bosniaks agree.
 
Well there is not a lot of surprise there. Can you think of any situation anywhere in the world today where you do not think that the Muslims have all the right in the world to complain?

That's besides the point. The reason I said this about Bosnians, however, is because the Bosnian Muslims tried with the democratic approach and aggresors that didn't respect the democratic decision attacked Bosnia. This should've attrackted the full support of the West.

Actually the West has supported a unified democratic Bosnia all the way. You may not have noticed by Bosnia is full of NATO troops specifically there to make sure that Bosnia remains a united and democratic country.

Again, the embargo didn't help. What I mean is, they should've been sterner against the aggressors and not accept anything but the result of the election. The result of the election didn't say anything about a Serb republic in Bosnia, however it's there today. The Serb republic or a total division of Bosnia should've, if we'll go by democracy, come through democratic ways, not through aggression.

However, I think this policy is foolish. If Croats, Serbs and Muslims cannot live together in Yugoslavia they cannot live together in Bosnia. Just as the Bosniaks are entitled to exercise their right to self determination, so too, I think, are the Croat and Serb Bosnians. Divide the province. Reunite the pieces with whomever they want to reunite with.

There are 2 problems.

1. Bosnia is ethnically mixed. If there's a town with a predominantly Serb/Croat/Muslim population, there are villages with a majority of Serbs/Muslims/Croats there. It's to difficult to divide.

2. You seem to be against democracy when you say that the West shouldn't have had this policy, since the referendum said that their should be a Bosnian republic. To go and divide Bosnia and ignore the referendum isn't democratic. This is only a problem, btw, if you claim to be a supporter of democracy. If not, ignore this second point.

Whether Bosnia was a sovereign state or not is debateable, but let's accept that as the US seemed to.

Why is it debatable?

Where does Clinton say anything so stupid? The Germans in particular fell over themselves to support the Croats - the Croats being Catholics and having close ties to Austria and Germany at that time being ruled by a party that had strong ties to the Austrians and the CSU - a Bavarian Catholic Party.

I'll rephrase it. They supported the Christian cause, since they didn't want a Muslim country in the heart of Europe and thus ignored the democratic elections.

Which is morally right and just but is a waste of time I think. If the West ought to do anything, it ought to give everyone large sums of money on condition they give up the right to return home and partition Bosnia into three ethnically pure pieces. If the Bosnians cannot live together in Yugoslavia they cannot live together in Bosnia.

You seem to forget that the Bosnian Muslims were the most staunch supporters of Yugoslavia. The reason they wanted out was because Slovenia and Croatia allready had left, and so the Muslims (and Croats) didn't want to end up in Great Serbia. They held a referendum and the majority voted for indenpendence.
If Slovenia and Croatia hadn't left, the Muslims would have no problem staying in Yugoslavia and living together.
We wouldn't have any problem living together in Bosnia as we did in Yugoslavia.

I doubt most Bosniaks agree.

Well, after so much time under Communist rule, Bosniaks are pretty secularized. So you're probably right.
 

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